Liberty1776
05-08-2019, 10:17 PM
Turns out the 1873 Winchester is designed to take a cartridge that is 1.60" long.
The minimum length for proper functioning is 1.450" and the bullet must have a flat point. (See the bottom of the post for why.)
I'm shooting down-loaded .38 Special (3 grains of Trail Boss pushing a 125 grain bullet) in both our revolvers and rifle, as many others do in Cowboy Action Shooting. Less expensive and simple to reload, low recoil, adequate power factor and brass is plentiful and affordable. But the .38 SPL is way shorter than 1.60". Too short.
I cast 125 grain RNFP bullets using a Lee 6-cavity 358-125-RF (Model 90306) Round Nose Flat Point aluminum mold. The bullet has a crimping groove in it. I powder coat and size using a Lee .358 push-through sizer after coating.
At first I seated the bullet into the .38 SPL brass to the crimping groove, but found the Winchester didn't like them. Sometimes I'd jack the lever and it just didn't want to load the next round without me wiggling the action to coax the round to chamber.
A little research at Long Hunter's site revealed some new-to-me design specs for the Winchester. http://www.longhunt.com/web/index.php?page=1873-winchester
From Long Hunter:
One of the most critical things to a lever action rifles operating efficiency is the over all length of the cartridge. Winchester rifles were designed to operate optimally with a cartridge length of 1.600”.
Winchester’s repeating magazine is operated by a carrier block which captures a round from the magazine tube and elevates it to the firing chamber. However before the carrier can elevate the captured round upwards, it must also “shear” the next round in the magazine (slightly hanging out into the carrier) back up in the magazine tube to wait its turn.
When a given cartridge is too short, part of the next cartridge in line will come back even further into the carrier and cause the action to lock up, run very rough, or barely operate. This is seldom an issue with calibers like the .45LC, .44-40, 38-40 etc., and can go un-noticed in rifles without action jobs.
However, using .38 specials can sometimes pose problems. We do our best to make our rifles feed .38 special since it is the competitive caliber to shoot. However any 1873 must be fed a cartridge with a minimum length of 1.450”, any longer than this will only allow the rifle to operate smoother and more reliably with a full magazine.
Many individuals will use .357 mag brass when reloading their .38 rounds. This allows them to achieve a longer length without seating the bullets out of the case.
The other alternative if your .38’s do not fall within the required length is to seat your bullets out of the case further. They do not need to be crimped in the crimp groove.
Sure enough, after I seated my bullet just a bit further out, for an OAL of 1.458", the Winchester cycles flawlessly. And, of course, they work in the Ruger New Vaquero revolvers too. Then I lengthened the OAL to 1.480 or a few thousandths more. They work smoothly.
(Click on the images below to enlarge, then click on it again to get it even bigger.)
241330
241331
The other info at Long Hunter is concerning why the bullet needs to be flat point.
Another cartridge requirement for 1873 Winchesters is a flat point on the bullet’s nose. 1873’s cannot feed round noses.
Without the flat point on the end of the cartridge (especially in the .38 special) the bullets will zig-zag themselves in the magazine tube. This usually prevents the magazine being fully loaded, and causes the rifle to jam.
Lever action rifles of all types will also not feed wad cutters reliably. The rim on the edge of the bullet acts as a hang nail when the round is entering the chamber.
The minimum length for proper functioning is 1.450" and the bullet must have a flat point. (See the bottom of the post for why.)
I'm shooting down-loaded .38 Special (3 grains of Trail Boss pushing a 125 grain bullet) in both our revolvers and rifle, as many others do in Cowboy Action Shooting. Less expensive and simple to reload, low recoil, adequate power factor and brass is plentiful and affordable. But the .38 SPL is way shorter than 1.60". Too short.
I cast 125 grain RNFP bullets using a Lee 6-cavity 358-125-RF (Model 90306) Round Nose Flat Point aluminum mold. The bullet has a crimping groove in it. I powder coat and size using a Lee .358 push-through sizer after coating.
At first I seated the bullet into the .38 SPL brass to the crimping groove, but found the Winchester didn't like them. Sometimes I'd jack the lever and it just didn't want to load the next round without me wiggling the action to coax the round to chamber.
A little research at Long Hunter's site revealed some new-to-me design specs for the Winchester. http://www.longhunt.com/web/index.php?page=1873-winchester
From Long Hunter:
One of the most critical things to a lever action rifles operating efficiency is the over all length of the cartridge. Winchester rifles were designed to operate optimally with a cartridge length of 1.600”.
Winchester’s repeating magazine is operated by a carrier block which captures a round from the magazine tube and elevates it to the firing chamber. However before the carrier can elevate the captured round upwards, it must also “shear” the next round in the magazine (slightly hanging out into the carrier) back up in the magazine tube to wait its turn.
When a given cartridge is too short, part of the next cartridge in line will come back even further into the carrier and cause the action to lock up, run very rough, or barely operate. This is seldom an issue with calibers like the .45LC, .44-40, 38-40 etc., and can go un-noticed in rifles without action jobs.
However, using .38 specials can sometimes pose problems. We do our best to make our rifles feed .38 special since it is the competitive caliber to shoot. However any 1873 must be fed a cartridge with a minimum length of 1.450”, any longer than this will only allow the rifle to operate smoother and more reliably with a full magazine.
Many individuals will use .357 mag brass when reloading their .38 rounds. This allows them to achieve a longer length without seating the bullets out of the case.
The other alternative if your .38’s do not fall within the required length is to seat your bullets out of the case further. They do not need to be crimped in the crimp groove.
Sure enough, after I seated my bullet just a bit further out, for an OAL of 1.458", the Winchester cycles flawlessly. And, of course, they work in the Ruger New Vaquero revolvers too. Then I lengthened the OAL to 1.480 or a few thousandths more. They work smoothly.
(Click on the images below to enlarge, then click on it again to get it even bigger.)
241330
241331
The other info at Long Hunter is concerning why the bullet needs to be flat point.
Another cartridge requirement for 1873 Winchesters is a flat point on the bullet’s nose. 1873’s cannot feed round noses.
Without the flat point on the end of the cartridge (especially in the .38 special) the bullets will zig-zag themselves in the magazine tube. This usually prevents the magazine being fully loaded, and causes the rifle to jam.
Lever action rifles of all types will also not feed wad cutters reliably. The rim on the edge of the bullet acts as a hang nail when the round is entering the chamber.