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dverna
05-07-2019, 09:11 AM
Yes...my struggle starts here in Genesis...the very foundation of our Bible and faith.

It is all plausible until I get to the sixth day. And so my first question is simple...."Is each day in Genesis a 24 hour day?"
If so, this leads to my second question...."How is it possible for creatures to have existed before man?"
This second question assumes fossil remains predate man...as is conventionally believed and taught.

A bit of background. I believe in God and accepted Jesus as my savior just under two years ago. I spend more time in the New Testament as I feel it provides more relevance in my journey to be a better Christian but realize it is only 25% of the Bible and that the OT cannot be ignored and there are many references to the OT in the NT. I study from the NIV.

At my current stage of development, or lack of it, I have concluded the following:
First, Jesus's teachings are my road map for how I should live.
Second, the Bible may not be perfectly written or translated, but that does mean we throw the baby out with the bath water.
Third, and this is the big one, God is not perfect. His love is perfect, but He makes mistakes. There is no passage I can find in the Bible where His perfection is stated. It is man who has held Him up as perfect.
Fourth, I trust in God but have little trust in anything man has touched...including religion.

Thundarstick
05-07-2019, 10:21 AM
Please enlighten me about God's mistakes?

Walks
05-07-2019, 10:27 AM
He allows Mohammadens to exist.

Hogtamer
05-07-2019, 10:31 AM
Don, a wise man once penned, "There is more faith in honest doubt than all the creeds." Seems to me the fact that you are pondering these things is as Paul defined faith, "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." I believe the more we seek the more we will find to satisfy our eternal souls until, "face to face, we shall know as we are known." You have believed in your heart and confessed with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord. Thank you for that testimony today and may God continue to bless you in your walk with Him and your desire to grow closer day by day. hal

RED BEAR
05-07-2019, 11:10 AM
You believe or you don't its that simple. It doesn't say that each day was 24 hours so don't try to inject your definition of a day. If you don't believe i guess so be it. Thats your choice.

UKShootist
05-07-2019, 11:23 AM
Watch the film "Inherit The Wind". It is based upon the Scopes Trial of 1925. It answers your basic question.

Your statement " I trust in God but have little trust in anything man has touched...including religion." should be written thus:-











I trust in God but have little trust in anything man has touched...including religion.

jeepvet
05-07-2019, 01:10 PM
First of all, please believe me when I say that I am not trying to force my beliefs on anyone. They are just that, my beliefs. I have reasons for believing the way I do but not enough typing skills nor time to expound further.

Question one, is each day in creation a 24 hour day? Maybe but not necessarily. God is God, He can do whatever He wants. How fast was the earth rotating in that time? Only God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit know. When did a day become 24 hours? Same answer. Was it at creation, after the flood or some other time? Does it matter in the larger scheme of things?

Question two, how could animals exist before man? Why not? Does man really need to be around for animals to exist? It is my belief that animals existed before man because the Bible says that God created them first. God made everything, so God made science, so science proves the existence of God. How many scientists have set out to prove that God does not exist and ended up becoming strong, faithful followers of God?

It is my belief that the Bible is perfectly written but maybe not always perfectly translated. That is why it is sometimes very beneficial to go back to the original language for clarification on some points. I think that the NIV translation is one of the better translations as far as accuracy. It is translated from most of the earliest manuscripts in the original languages, not from other translations. Does it have some problems? You bet, anything that man is involved in does. That is why it is good to have a trusted mentor or three to help you. Two or four heads are always better than one. But the best mentor is always the Holy Spirit.

Now for the Big One. God is not perfect and He makes mistakes. Sorry but I have to disagree with that one. God is God. Nothing was made that He did not make. He made everything just as He wanted it. The only way that I can see for someone to think that God made a mistake is to look at it through the eyes and wisdom of man. I Corinthians 3:19 says, "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight." And I Corinthians 1:20b says, "Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?" Our human brains are not capable of understanding the greatness of God. He sees all and knows all from eternity past until eternity future. God did not make a mistake, we just can't see how what we don't understand fits into God's plan.

Please do not read this as a put down to anyone. I am trying to explain what my beliefs are and why I believe that way. If you believe another way, that is ok. But please continue to study with an open mind and be receptive to the Holy Spirit. Don't believe something just because you want to or someone told you. Study on the matter, ask questions, pray about, and listen and wait for the answer from the Holy Spirit.

You seem to be on the right path. Keep going.

God's blessings upon you.

wv109323
05-07-2019, 01:39 PM
In Exodus 20,the commandment about the Sabboth instructs us to rest on the 7th day (24 hours) as God rested on the seventh day during creation. This is only one word in Hebrew for day used all throughout the Bible. I question why God strung out creation over 6 days, why not everything in one day. I fully believe He had the power to create all in one day but chose 6.
How can God have a perfect love but other imperfections? If imperfect in one area how does it not spill over into his love?
The Bible is the best documented ancient book ever. There are about 5800 documents about the Bible,that have near perfect agreement with each other. This spans over sevral hundred years. The Bible says the Bible was given under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit so originally it was perfect. There have been mistakes by man preserving and translating them but those errors have been eliminated or at least exposed over time. None of the "mistakes" have any change in the overall message of God. In other words they don't amount to a hill of beans. You can believe the Bible as written. A good book on this is written by author Lightfoot and the title is something like "How did we get our Bible". My copy is out on loan.
You doubt if man has preserved the Bible correctly but your position mantains that man is totally correct about times past. There are several good books about creation. The methods about dating fossils millions of years ago is based on a lot of mans speculation about the past. Graet error is induced with this speculation.
How can the weather man not get the weather correct for the next 48 hours but man can accurately know the past 4.4 billion years. Do you belive that your 276,000,000th million grandpaw was a fish? That was given as truth in the theory of evolution.
There is a lot of difference between "In the begining" and "In the begining God created".
I understad your doubt as they are simolar to mine. I have worked through mine to come to the conclusion thar God id perfect,His Word is perfect and we should base our faith in it and it alone, Beware of man not God.

anothernewb
05-07-2019, 01:52 PM
having several friends of different theological persuasions. many of those questions have been posed. and I've used the following answers for them.

To follow some of the things listed. only human hubris would deign to assume a day to a person, is the same as a day to God.

as for any of the rest. ironically - a movie made by a decidedly anti christian person perhaps holds the best line as to inaccuracies, omissions, and poor clarity in the various texts, and to the endless debates, arguments, and wars brought about from said debates and arguments. and all of which come from people trying to take things far to literally - and forgetting the idea behind the words.

God is perfect. However, religion is flawed, because man is flawed.

wv109323
05-07-2019, 01:57 PM
Let me add something else. Man wants you to believe "The present is the key to the past". This "rule" is that all things happen at the same rate and under the same laws now present. The Laws of Nature, the laws of Science,Thermodynamics and others are constant. God can and does work outside these rules. With his powers God can work outside the present time,space and matter.
The Bible uses many examples: an axe head floating,a donkey talking,and Jesus raising the dead.

gon2shoot
05-07-2019, 04:22 PM
Consider this, is the OT a history of the earth or a linage and promise of a coming savior?

GhostHawk
05-07-2019, 09:04 PM
As to mistakes.
First God tried "the Law" as handed down to Moses. Under the law how many were saved? Not many I think if any.

So then he tried again, sending his son to be born as a man, to be offered as first fruits, sacrificed for our sins. If the law was not a mistake, why did he have to sacrifice his son?

"Fourth, I trust in God but have little trust in anything man has touched...including religion."

Brother, we are in total agreement. IMO mankind has taken Christs bride and turned the church into the painted ***** of Babylon. It seems we as humans have an infinite capacity to screw stuff up.

But there are good churches out there. This winter we discovered Little Farms UCC in New Orleans. Mission based church which is centered on helping others in need. I walked into that church wearing plain black slacks, a camo tshirt and hat. And when the preacher asked the congregation to greet each other and give the handshake of fellowship I was greeted like I grew up there. Inside of 2 minutes I truly felt welcome, loved, and at home.

And a few weeks later I took communion for the first time in 40 years. With tears running down my face. After the service when everyone else headed for the door I knelt at the alter. My heart full to overflowing. Yet feeling like there was no way I could be forgiven my stubbornness and pride.

As I am kneeling there, asking for the Lord to forgive me I heard loud and clear.
"William Thomas, you have done nothing to be forgiven for, Arise, go forth"

About the time I hit the door the preacher saw me, saw my face shiny with tears. Asked if I was ok. So I told her. She gave me a big hug. Patted me on the back. Said she hoped to see me again soon.

Let me see, May, June, July, August, Sept, Oct. ehhh, only 6 months to go.

Keep reading Dverna, keep asking questions, keep believing, keep listening for that still small voice. Keep the faith brother. Keep walking in his will.

dverna
05-07-2019, 09:51 PM
Here is the response from the Pastor of the church I attended Sunday:

Hi Don! Your email was forwarded on to me. I am so glad you were able to be with us last Sunday. I trust you enjoyed the service. I applaud you for your thoughtful questions. In regard to the days of creation, I do believe they were six 24-hour literal days. I will be teaching on this next Sunday so I hope you will return.

In the meantime, Let me share with you three links that I think will be helpful for you. The first deals with a 6-day creation. The second deals with dinosaurs and humans. The third deals with why you can trust our Bibles today.

https://answersingenesis.org/days-of-creation/

https://answersingenesis.org/dinosaurs/humans/

https://alwaysbeready.com/bible-evidence?id=99

Many blessings!

Scott Distler
Lead Pastor
E-Free Church
Gaylord/Sault Ste. Marie

exile
05-07-2019, 10:10 PM
"As for God, his way is perfect:
The Lord's word is flawless;
he shields all who take refuge in him."

2 Samuel 22:31 (N.I.V.)

dverna
05-07-2019, 11:28 PM
"As for God, his way is perfect:
The Lord's word is flawless;
he shields all who take refuge in him."

2 Samuel 22:31 (N.I.V.)

This is part of David's Song of Praise. It is not God stating He is perfect...it is David praising Him. David's opinion....

exile
05-08-2019, 11:51 AM
God's perfection, His holiness, (see Isaiah 6:1-5, 1 Peter 1:15-16) is an essential doctrine of the Christian faith, possibly the most important attribute of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit expressed in both the Old and New Testament scriptures.

Apart from the holiness (perfection) of God, why would we have any desire to worship Him? And He is worthy of worship!

exile

dverna
05-08-2019, 04:39 PM
God's perfection, His holiness, (see Isaiah 6:1-5, 1 Peter 1:15-16) is an essential doctrine of the Christian faith, possibly the most important attribute of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit expressed in both the Old and New Testament scriptures.

Apart from the holiness (perfection) of God, why would we have any desire to worship Him? And He is worthy of worship!

exile

It is my error in defining "perfect" that has caused confusion.

God is holy and does not sin...I get that.

God may not make perfect decisions in every matter.

One example being the 613 Laws in the Old Testament. If man could not obey the one law that Adam and Eve were given, or the 10 Commandments; it seems strange to expect man to abide by 613 of them. In the end, God gave up on us....He knew (as He likely always did) that man was never going to be holy...His design of man predisposed us to sin. And thus Jesus was sent to allow for our salvation as we could never save ourselves by living a holy life. That is one example of less than perfect decisions to achieve His goal.

Another is the death of babies...difficult for me to understand that. Or the murder, rape, or abuse of children. A perfect God would not allow that to happen.

Blackwater
05-08-2019, 05:25 PM
We have no direct explanation of how long a "day" is in Genesis, so ALL theories about how long those days were is reflective only of our own prejudices and the limitations of our intellects and imaginations. However, FWIW, if anything, I'll offer my take on it. First off, we commonly refer to a "days work" when we're talking about a job that only took a portion of a day. It's just a figurative way of expressing ourselves. These figurative uses of words in our languages are common in all cultures using all languages. A sense of humor and sometimes, a bit of cynicism, seems to spur these figurative uses of words to mean something not precisely as they are normally seen to mean. It is my theory that the author of Genesis used the word "day" in more of a symbolic sort of way. God intended to do a certain thing, and to Him, the time it took to achieve that thing was one of His "days." It may have spanned eons. God isn't limited by our worldly uses of words. He works very differently than we do, so why should not His days differ from our own, simple time limits???

Then too, the best evidence we have to go on is what science has determined is the most likely story of how or universe came into being. Given that, it seems very unlikely that the "days" referred to in Genesis were merely our 24 hour days. And too, at the time our world was being brought into being, the earth had not, for most of those days, yet come into being! So there again, we are left with the conclusion, however tentative and faulty it might be, that again, the "days" referred to in Genesis are NOT our now commonly referred to 24 hour days.

My take on the creation story in Genesis is that it was never MEANT to be a "tell-all" about the creation, but a mere generalized accounting of how it all began. After all, what did the average, or even most exceptional people want or need MORE than that, at that time??? So again, we are left having to conclude that it is merely a figurative and generalized story of creation, and NOT a scientific account that can be taken and disected, analyzed, etc. until even the most agnostic people are satisfied.

It IS worth noting, however, that the order outlined in Genesis of what happened, is EXACTLY the order science now believes to be the way things developed into the universe and world we now know today. All that work! And now we expect to go back and fit all of it into one of our present 24-hour days? Pretty high folly, I'd say. But again, that's just me.

When evaluating things, we HAVE to go with some sort of evidence, and not just some concept that we've created in our own minds. And if we're really seeking a REAL answer instead of just to satisfy our own ideas, we'll go with the best available evidence. And all of that seems to me to indicate that those "days" referred to in Genesis are NOT our now commonly recognized 24 hour days, but a "day" in God's efforts, and He is very patient and exacting, and His days can be as long as necessary for Him to achieve His ends. I think this is the only rational way to analyze this section of the Bible, but others always have other ideas.

In reality, it seems that we humans find it very difficult NOT to try to fit the facts to our ideas, rather than visa versa. But wisdom seems to come only when we accomplish that sometimes difficult method of analysis.

And as an aside, I remember a world where once, people asking questions sought REAL answers - answers that not only satisfied our curiosity, but proved out in real experience as well. Nowadays, an awful lot of folks seem to try to fit whatever's around them into their concept of "reality" that exists largely only in their heads. We truly HAVE changed, and the politics and business of today seems to reflect those changes, and promise to change our world yet drastically MORE in the future. I'm sort'a glad I"m an old man now. I have lived in the best time in history to have been born and be alive! And I am so grateful for that! Blessed be the name of the Lord forever! Amen.

wv109323
05-08-2019, 09:56 PM
The law was given to show mankind that God has always looked at our faith to determine our eternity. God did not make a mistake by introducing the Law. God did it to so man could realize that he could not follow rules and that faith was the pleasing factor of God. The just shall live by faith has existed through all dispensations. Before the law, Abraham had faith to move into the land God showed him, Noah had faith to build an Ark and so on.. So when Christ died the ceremonial part of the Law was done away with. It was not God adjusting his plan. All people both Jews and Gentiles at all times could please God through faith.

sniper
05-09-2019, 11:14 AM
" I acknowledge that I do not understand the processes of creation, but I accept the fact of it. I grant that I cannot explain the miracles of the Bible, and do not attempt to do so, but I accept God's word."... President Thomas S. Monson, quoting Stephen L. Richards

And, that sums it up for me.


Well said, jeepvet! :smile:

..."Now for the Big One. God is not perfect and He makes mistakes. Sorry but I have to disagree with that one. God is God. Nothing was made that He did not make. He made everything just as He wanted it. The only way that I can see for someone to think that God made a mistake is to look at it through the eyes and wisdom of man. I Corinthians 3:19 says, "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight." And I Corinthians 1:20b says, "Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?" Our human brains are not capable of understanding the greatness of God. He sees all and knows all from eternity past until eternity future. God did not make a mistake, we just can't see how what we don't understand fits into God's plan.

Please do not read this as a put down to anyone. I am trying to explain what my beliefs are and why I believe that way. If you believe another way, that is ok. But please continue to study with an open mind and be receptive to the Holy Spirit." ...

WebMonkey
05-09-2019, 12:36 PM
People doing bad stuff is not an example of God's imperfection.
It is an example of free will.
Bad stuff happening in general is due to the curse the world is under due to man's sin in the garden.

The Creator is not bound by His creation or the laws we create/observe in that creation.

The law given to moses never once was referred to as a means to salvation.
Simply the standard of those claiming to follow God.

As stated earlier, Christians generally believe the original language scripture is directly inspired whereas translations should be reconciled against each other.

These are my attempts to edify and exhort the body.
No argument is directed at any poster.

exile
05-10-2019, 03:24 PM
People doing bad stuff is not an example of God's imperfection.
It is an example of free will.
Bad stuff happening in general is due to the curse the world is under due to man's sin in the garden.

The Creator is not bound by His creation or the laws we create/observe in that creation.

The law given to moses never once was referred to as a means to salvation.
Simply the standard of those claiming to follow God.

As stated earlier, Christians generally believe the original language scripture is directly inspired whereas translations should be reconciled against each other.

These are my attempts to edify and exhort the body.
No argument is directed at any poster.

Hebrews 3:13, 1st Thessalonians 5:11. Thank you, webmonkey!

rl69
05-17-2019, 09:01 PM
The law was given to show mankind that God has always looked at our faith to determine our eternity. God did not make a mistake by introducing the Law. God did it to so man could realize that he could not follow rules and that faith was the pleasing factor of God. The just shall live by faith has existed through all dispensations. Before the law, Abraham had faith to move into the land God showed him, Noah had faith to build an Ark and so on.. So when Christ died the ceremonial part of the Law was done away with. It was not God adjusting his plan. All people both Jews and Gentiles at all times could please God through faith.

Nicely put and spot on

dtknowles
05-18-2019, 02:44 PM
...…...…...You doubt if man has preserved the Bible correctly but your position mantains that man is totally correct about times past. ……..Beware of man not God.

People talk about the Bible as if it is a single book or two books but it is really an anthology. Many books and documents that the Catholic Church, the Original Christian Church prior to its division east and west and prior to the Reformation, compiled into two volumes as the Old Testament and the New Testament. The Church Leadership decided which ancient texts and which writings of selected Apostles to include in what they authorized as the Bible for the Christian Religion. The original texts were written in languages with small vocabularies so the writings lack a greater degree of nuance or clarity.

What is called the bible is defined by men not God.

Tim

dtknowles
05-18-2019, 03:10 PM
After the Catholic Church created the bible the Modern Jews created their own book and called it the Torah.

The Bible started coming together around 300 AD (CE) and the oldest Torah is from around 1000 AD (CE) they both contain content consistent with much older documents like the Dead Sea Scrolls the oldest of which is from around 200 BC (BCE). All of these documents are much new than the first written words that date as far back as 5000 BC (BCE). To bad nobody has anything written by Noah and we have much writings from before the great flood but nothing written about the flood from the time of the flood or maybe we do but if it is to believed many people survived the great flood like the oldest settlements in the new world that date back to 7500 BC (BCE) that don't appear to have been inundated. It seems the Great Flood was localized to the region around the Mediterranean.

Tim

cephas53
05-19-2019, 09:16 AM
"Is each day in Genesis a 24 hour day?"

At one time thought about this. There was a time years ago where some put emphasis on explaining the Bible scientifically. From our knowledge the universe is about 14 billion years old. Mankind has been around about 200,000 years with "civilization" occurring in the last 6,000 years. So if we correlate that with a 24 hour clock we've been here about 15 minutes or so.
Remember having that explained to me, didn't come up with it. Things like this can be interesting but also a detour off the path.
I know I'm not a big poster but enjoy your discussions here.

dverna
05-21-2019, 05:04 PM
This is a bit of a long, but very interesting read.

It is about the originator of the Big Bang Theory. A man of science and also a man of God. A man who could speak to the Pope or to Einstein. I had never heard about him until this week.

The Faith and Reason of Father George Lemaitre

https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=8847

Some quotes of interest if you do not wish to read it all.

It is a point of great interest nowadays, when there is so much loose thinking and still looser writing and talking about the non-existence of God, of the immortal soul, and of a host of eternal verities, to see a man who is both a priest and a scientist fraternizing on the most intimate terms with the world's most illustrious scientific geniuses. He not only associates with them, but he is their peer; and in that is the lie given to the old and empty charge that the study of science means the loss of belief in religion. Lemaître, of course, is usually an object of great curiosity — not so much to his coreligionists as to many not of the faith who marvel at the "phenomenon" of a Catholic priest being a scientist, yes, not only a scientist of the regular run, but a genius whose theories are most daring.6


Should a priest reject relativity because it contains no authoritative exposition on the doctrine of the Trinity? Once you realize that the Bible does not purport to be a textbook of science, the old controversy between religion and science vanishes . . . The doctrine of the Trinity is much more abstruse than anything in relativity or quantum mechanics; but, being necessary for salvation, the doctrine is stated in the Bible. If the theory of relativity had also been necessary for salvation, it would have been revealed to Saint Paul or to Moses . . . As a matter of fact neither Saint Paul nor Moses had the slightest idea of relativity.15


But Lemaître also felt that Catholic theology guarantees the autonomy of science:

He (the Christian researcher) knows that not one thing in all creation has been done without God, but he knows also that God nowhere takes the place of his creatures. Omnipresent divine activity is everywhere essentially hidden. It never had to be a question of reducing the supreme Being to the rank of a scientific hypothesis.19


The writers of the Bible were illuminated more or less — some more than others — on the question of salvation. On other questions they were as wise or ignorant as their generation. Hence it is utterly unimportant that errors in historic and scientific fact should be found in the Bible, especially if the errors related to events that were not directly observed by those who wrote about them . . . The idea that because they were right in their doctrine of immortality and salvation they must also be right on all other subjects, is simply the fallacy of people who have an incomplete understanding of why the Bible was given to us at all.25



Anyway...I am not a Catholic but the work and ideas of this man are astounding. He is not light weight in either science of theology.

He believed that science and theology are not enemies of each other....a refreshing perspective that should be considered by the more rabid of each camp.

The answer is clear...Genesis was not completed in six 24 hours days. But God was the Creator!!!

.22-10-45
05-21-2019, 05:26 PM
Matthew 5:48....Be ye therefore perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect.

Hickory
05-21-2019, 05:41 PM
He allows Mohammadens to exist.

They do the work of their father the devil, although cast down to this world, he has picked up quite a few followers!

docbrown
05-26-2019, 04:44 PM
I am going back to your first post to give an overview answer:

I will lay out what I have garnered from the Bible:

1. The creative days are NOT literal 24 hour days. There are a couple of scriptural reasons for this:
a. Genesis 2:4 KJV says "4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the DAY that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens," (bold caps added by me for emphasis) - If day were taken literally, then all 6 creative days would have to be ONE day .
b. Psalm 90:4 KJV says: "4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as YESTERDAY when it is past, and as a watch in the night." - Here, one day (yesterday) would be 1000 years if taken literally.
Based on just these two examples, it is clear that a "day" does not have to mean a literal 24 hour period.

2. The creative days are as follows, according to Genesis:
day one, light and darkness
day two, expanse
day three, land and plants
day four, luminaries:
day five, aquatic and flying creatures
day six, land animals and man
day seven, rest

“If I as a geologist were called upon to explain briefly our modern ideas of the origin of the earth and the development of life on it to a simple, pastoral people, such as the tribes to whom the Book of Genesis was addressed, I could hardly do better than follow rather closely much of the language of the first chapter of Genesis.” - Wallace Pratt, Geologist

With point one in mind, there is no issue with there being some time in which animals of all kinds existed PRIOR to man being created.

3. The teachings of the Christ SHOULD be our primary roadmap, but there is much in the "Old Testament" that helps us understand Jesus' teachings - background/context helps tremendously!

4. While it is true that the Bible has not been translated PERFECTLY, it is pretty darn close!
“It may be safely said that no other work of antiquity has been so accurately transmitted.” - William H. Green Hebrew Scriptures scholar

“The evidence for our New Testament writings is ever so much greater than the evidence for many writings of classical authors, the authenticity of which no one dreams of questioning.” He also said: “If the New Testament were a collection of secular writings, their authenticity would generally be regarded as beyond all doubt.” - Bible scholar F. F. Bruce

There are an abundance of ancient manuscripts available, that when compared, show only minor differences from one "family" of texts to another. By "family", I mean different source copies. To illustrate, from the original copy, let's say 10 copies were made and each of those copies was distributed to 10 different congregations. Then copies of each of those 10 were made and passed on. While an error may creep in one family of texts, it is unlikely that the SAME mistake would be made in the other 9 families of texts. Hence, when texts are compared across "families", the original text can be determined. That is the Cliff's Notes version.

5. I have to disagree about our creator being perfect (Deuteronomy 32:4). When we look at the mess mankind is in, it is not his fault, it is the fact that man misused his God Given free will.

6. Finally, I agree with you mankind has a poor track record - on EVERYTHING! The vast majority of religions do NOT follow the scriptures - they follow traditions and man-made philosophies.

I hope I did not offend with anything written. I was merely trying to share. Please know I am not seeking to offend anyone.
Have a great evening!

dtknowles
05-27-2019, 11:22 AM
……………..Finally, I agree with you mankind has a poor track record - on EVERYTHING! The vast majority of religions do NOT follow the scriptures - they follow traditions and man-made philosophies...…...Have a great evening!

In your opinion which Christian sect most closely follows the scriptures?

Tim

a danl
03-13-2020, 05:20 PM
Yes...my struggle starts here in Genesis...the very foundation of our Bible and faith.

It is all plausible until I get to the sixth day. And so my first question is simple...."Is each day in Genesis a 24 hour day?"
If so, this leads to my second question...."How is it possible for creatures to have existed before man?"
This second question assumes fossil remains predate man...as is conventionally believed and taught.

A bit of background. I believe in God and accepted Jesus as my savior just under two years ago. I spend more time in the New Testament as I feel it provides more relevance in my journey to be a better Christian but realize it is only 25% of the Bible and that the OT cannot be ignored and there are many references to the OT in the NT. I study from the NIV.

At my current stage of development, or lack of it, I have concluded the following:
First, Jesus's teachings are my road map for how I should live.
Second, the Bible may not be perfectly written or translated, but that does mean we throw the baby out with the bath water.
Third, and this is the big one, God is not perfect. His love is perfect, but He makes mistakes. There is no passage I can find in the Bible where His perfection is stated. It is man who has held Him up as perfect.
Fourth, I trust in God but have little trust in anything man has touched...including religion.

yes each day was a 24 hr day because it says morning and evening of the day, .

1hole
03-13-2020, 08:30 PM
My Lord has not granted me any special knowledge about 24 hour days. I chose to accept the Bible as true but I'm not dogmatic about it ... mostly because it really doesn't matter anyway. My thought is that a God who could make the earth from the power of His word could, at the same time, give it the appearance of existing for thousands of years.

Thing is, if a space ship had landed in the Garden on the morning of the first 7th day they would have seen exactly the same wear and tear of wind, rain and streams on the earth that we see today. And that kind of earth is exactly what would have been required to make a rich old (new) soil and vegetation that could support life as Adam knew it.

So, take you choice, believe what spiritually ignorant scientists say or what scripture says. Personally, I just don't have a lot of faith in scientists convection in an interesting theory that can't be scientifically proven. Scientists are the experts who, in the late 1,700s, were convinced that men could not possibly breath if they traveled faster than 35 mph; I've done over 60 mph on water skis! (I may be old, ugly and smell bad but I ain't dead yet.)