What Experiences with a Rowell Bottom Pour Ladle

[RogerDat]

I'm looking to purchase a Rowell bottom pour ladle. I'm going to be filling 4 cavity ingot molds that hold 2.5 pounds per cavity. My initial thought was to use a #3 or #4 ladle. But at 4# and 4.5# capacities neither one can fill even two cavities in the ingot molds.

Started looking at the #5 which can hold 9# of lead. I figure no problem to do 5# at a pour, or maybe even 7.5# and fill 2 or 3 ingots per pour. Both the #4 and #5 ladle have the D shaped handles with slide grip so two handed operations seems the norm for using them.

I don't normally use a larger ladle, when I do I usually use two hands in order to guide the pour into the molds with greater control. I haven't used a large ladle for pouring smaller ingots. Just use large ladle for larger ingots in bread loaf pans

My question is has anyone used the sizes mentioned #3, #4 and #5 that can comment on how easy or hard they are to use? Or if you used a larger Rowell ladle to speed production of ingots how did the extra weight vs. the faster production work out for you?

I'm really thinking the big production 9 pound ladle makes the most sense but can see where I might be able to use the smaller 4 or 4.5 pound ladle for more general uses. I only know folks with the smaller 1 or 2 pound ladles and they say good things about how clean they pour.

[CastingFool]

I have used a large Rowell ladle as a melting pot, and it worked great. It was at work, during my lunch break. Pouring four 5 lb ingots was easily done. The ladle was probably about 8"-10" in diameter. Never used any of the smaller ones.

[lightman]

If you see yourself collecting and smelting lead for several more years I would say go for it. (yeah, I know smelting is not the correct word)

I recently bought one but I don't remember the size. I think its either a #4 or #5. It holds enough molten lead to fill a 4 gang Lyman mold in one scoop. I also bought that larger skimmer. I melt wheel weights in batches of 350 to 400# and these two tools have speeded up my operation and made it easier. I would gladly buy them again and wish that I had bought them earlier in my casting career. I see stuff like this as an investment. Like my larger pot and the burner thats big enough to melt 350+ # in 20 minutes or so.

The bottom pour spout makes it easier to hit the mold without splashing lead all over. The "D" ring on the end of the handle and the sliding sleeve make it easy to dump. And both the ladle and skimmer have a long enough handle to distance you from the heat of the pot.

I know I'm sounding like a paid advertisement but I don't think you will be sorry.

[kevin c]

I have the #5.

So far I've used it for pouring storage ingots of around 9.5 to 10 pounds. It will hold that much but it will be VERY full, and requires a very steady hand, and slow, smooth turning from pot to pouring table. Walking with a ladle that full is out of the question, as even a slight jar or bump will spill lead. It takes me ten to twelve seconds from full ladle at the pot to the end of the pour, and there's no speeding this up if you want to pour all ten pounds at a time. That's also into a small but deep bread pan mold. The CB mold is much shallower, and a fast pour might splash. Holding up ten pounds of lead plus the weight of the ladle, another six, for a slow, carefully controlled pour may be problematic. If nothing else it will be tiring the more that is done in a session (I do ~240# a go, and sometimes do three pots over a day). With the CB ingot molds I figure on pouring two or three cavities per ladle. 7 or 8 # is less likely to spill, easier to pour in a controlled fashion, and may be less tiring. Also if I decide to flood the top of the mold to link the four ingots, the second ladle will have enough to do that as well as fill the last cavity or two.

Oh, I should mention that this ladle is a bit tricky to fill - the bowl is large and the handle extends straight back which makes dipping it into my 12" diameter half propane tank processing pot a laughable experience that gets you less than a full ladle from the first go with a full pot, and less and less per ladle every fill afterwards. To get close to full capacity and consistent weight storage ingots from each pour, I have to rest the Rowell on the edge of the pot, with the bowl's handle flange on the rim of the pot, and fill it with a soup ladle (here, the D ring handle makes it possible to hold the ladle steady without rotation with one hand while the other fills with the other ladle). Works for me, but it'd be much faster to fill from a high capacity bottom pour.

Just my own experiences and thoughts, FWIW. YMMV.

[jmort]

I have a #7
I would not go bigger
A #5 might be the sweet spot at 9 pounds
#6 is 25 pounds
#7 is at least 40 lbs
I do not have to completely fill the #7, so there is that option
Works well with my four cavity angle-iron ingot molds

[RogerDat]

It is sounding like the #5 is a good choice. I did wonder about filling it so thanks for the suggestion to use another ladle to fill it with while it rests on the pot. I just couldn't see any good way to scoop the last 10 or 20 pounds out of the pot with something that big. Didn't consider even with a full pot it wouldn't dip flat enough to fill. I have a Harbor Freight Dutch oven so a wider opening and less depth than a propane tank pot but I think the same problem will exist

For my project of getting my lead stash better organized I think the #5 has the capacity to use in the group buy molds 2.5 pound ingots and it sounds like it will help speed production. I have a ladle that does around 3 pounds so that can be used to fill the larger ladle. I wouldn't mind a smaller bottom pour for doing pewter or solder scrap like the #2 or #3 but it isn't going to be as useful as the big one will be. Especially in the short term.

I don't plan on ending my scrap scrounging ways anytime soon but I have slowed down some. Willing to pass when it isn't a good deal. Looking for better stuff and less likely to snag anything I can use. I spent several years gathering more than I used. Nailing some good deals on bulk purchases along the way. Now I need to put it all in good order. I have however decided to put a little more emphasis on buying COWW's because for the price they are a good lead that is getting hard to find. While I can find it I think I should buy it. If I don't use it someone will I'm sure. Those WW's I do in 110 pound batches so the big ladle will see continued use after the "big organize" is over.

[RogerDat]

I ordered the ladle from Advance Car Movers (makers of a cast lever for moving rail cars) who are also the manufacture of the Rowell Bottom Pour Ladle. Picked USPS priority shipping and the total for a #5 ladle with shipping was $53.78 or a touch over $9 less than the $64 from Amazon (with free shipping) and also less than from Rotometals at $57.19 plus shipping.

https://www.advancecarmover.com/rowellbottom-pouringladles.aspx

Just thought I would pass on the link to where one can purchase these ladles for a better price than most places. Even in the smaller sizes there is a few dollars to be saved going directly to the manufacturer.

BTW - the deciding factor was I can get 4 pounds into a 9 pound ladle better than I can get 9 pounds into a 4 pound ladle. I will probably be filling to around 8 pounds each pour in order to fill three ingots. If the weight is too much to handle comfortably I will just come down to around 5.5 pounds and fill two ingots. The #5 empty only weighs 1 pound more than the #4 at 4.5 pound capacity so I have options with the larger ladle from filling one ingot to filling three. The next size down would only fill one ingot.

[Chill Wills]

I am late to the thread.
I had the #5 Rowell and used it a lot some years ago. I was working from a 100 pound working load dutch oven on a plumber's floor furnace on the concrete. Working on the ground, IF you don't have a bad back you will soon enough - unless you have a set-up where you can work standing up full on straight, moving that number 5 Rowell over and over again is not a good idea.

You probably have a smart table high set-up. Sorry for the drama....
What was said in the above posts about not walking around with a "load" is very true. At that size, it is a two hand ladle all the way. No sloshing allowed. I now have a 240 LB capacity rendering pot and really still don't miss that ol' #5 because I do have a common looking open top 3 pounder that works well for my 2 lb muffin and smaller assortment of cast cookware I have for batching a load of ingots. Everything I cast in ingot form these days is small enough for the 20 lb casting pot. You guys that sell have larger requirements.

Last month, while it was still cool I put up 875lbs of BPCR range scrap and sure could have used it but the open top 3 pounder fills the smaller ingots fine too. I am good for about two years on that BPCR alloy. I have a bunch of other scrap lead but it will wait until next winter.
I got rid of my #5 but kept the one pounder. In fact I traded the #5 for a bullet mold here in the FS and trade section.

-Chill Wills

[country gent]

I have a rowel 1 lb ladle and its big for casting bullets with. also its an industrial design with a longer handle I don't care for. I have seen the rowel catalog at work and thay have ladles from 1 lb up to around 50 lbs. I hand 2 hand a 1 man and 2 man. I made a ladle from a 3" weld on pipe cap that did good pouring ingots. cut a 3/4" pipe coupler at an angle and welded it to the side of the cap. then a 4' piece of 3/4" sch 80 black iron pipe for a handle. A 4" length of pope that slides over the handle would make a sliding forward handle and a heat shield.

[alamogunr]

I've got a #1 and a #2 for casting and a #5 for cleaning up WW and other scrap. I have to admit that after awhile the #5 gets awfully heavy. You start wobbling more if you have to take more than 1 or 2 steps to pour into a mold. I admit that I don't use the #5 much any more. Only for mixing large(200+ lbs)quantities of alloy and that is not often any more.

Depending on what type of pot you use to melt your quantities, you will be constantly adding more lead to the pot because it is difficult to get a full ladle when you get to less than half full. I switch to the #2 when I'm finishing up so I don't have a lot of melt in the bottom of the pot. But then my muffin pan ingots are only about 1½ lbs.

[kevin c]

My propane tank processing pot is set on a Bayou Classic jet burner that in turn is set over concrete blocks, so the rim is about thirty inches off the ground. Being short keeps me from having to stoop much, but it's necessary to lift the bowl of the Rowell over the rim of the pot after filling so straightening up after the fill is a good thing (lifting with the legs, of course - my physical therapist would be proud).

My pot holds 250 pounds easily, which I can pour into ten pound storage ingots with the #5, one ingot per pour. The loaded pot is stable enough on its base for me to rest the ladle, even when full, over the rim. I fill, lift, rotate to the molds, and pour. The molds are on an U shaped work area within a half step from the pot, all to my left (the ladle pours to that side) at pot height.

I can do three pots a day, seventy odd pours (the last twenty pounds are in the shallow bottom of the pot where even my small ladle has trouble scooping it up, so it either stays to speed up the next melt or I pour it directly from the pot [it has a spout, courtesy of DCrockett] held with vise grips). But believe me, I'm glad I have a break while the second and third pots melt down.

I might try ten pound pours with the #5 into the CB mold, but I'm thinking, while slower to do two ladles with less lead in each, that would be easier and safer.

[RogerDat]

I will be working on a metal table at a fairly decent height but my back and hips will be pretty pissed after the first 100# pot and will welcome the break while the 2nd pot melts.j I found that adding a small pallet to raise the molds up avoided a tendency to bend over as I poured.

241280

241281

I have over a thousand pounds of base ingredients (COWW's and Plain) to mix with several hundred pounds of sweeter alloys so I am storing most in a ready to use form like Lyman #2 or Hardball. I will have to pace myself. That is for sure. I think I will be trying to do about an 8# fill in the number 5 ladle. Should allow me to pour 3 of the 2.5 pound ingots.

Later I may purchase a smaller version for regular use. Maybe a #2 or #3 I pour a lot with a ladle that does a touch over 2 pounds. Used to pour the angle iron ingots in the picture.

[lightman]

Roger, I think you will be happy with that ladle. The next thing you need is one of the larger skimmers. You'll be like me and wonder why you didn't get these sooner!

You Guys are onto something trying to avoid walking, bending, stooping, ect while pouring molten lead. I have looked at a lot of the videos on Utube and I'm amazed at the number of them that show the ingot molds on the ground. Not for this ole back!

My burner and pot put you holding the ladle about waist high when standing straight. The landing zone is about a half step away. You fill the ladle and turn making a short step and pour. This kind of lets you rest your wrist on your hip bones and add some stability. I usually have a friend or two that want to melt some of their lead whenever I melt mine and we work together. Two of them are taller than me and I put the burner on a small pallet when they are on ladle duty.

Its all about ergonomics. If your method causes back pain or leg pain then adjust things to be more comfortable. And plan your set up to minimize the number of steps required. My pot holds close to 400 pounds and we often do 3 batches and occasionally 4 batches in a days time. And I certainly understand what you guys mean about looking forward to the down time between pots!

[RogerDat]

Good grief, I don't think I would want to move 3 or 4 batches of 400 lbs. in ingots let alone as raw material, then in a ladle, then as completed ingots to storage location. It is supposed to be a fun hobby not strength training for the Octagon!

On the other hand having 1,200 to 1,600 lbs. of lead stacked up at the end of the day does sound sort of nice. Me I figure a couple of hundred pounds is a good days work. Two pots or so. And if being honest I feel like I have accomplished something if I get one pot into finished labeled and stored ingots. Of course the larger 2.5 lb. ingots and more molds might help. The angle iron bar ingots are only about 1.5 lbs.

I ordered from Advanced Car Movers when I posted a couple of days ago, it was after hours in the evening. I just got an email with a tracking number so essentially one full business day to process and shipping on the second day. Oh please be here by this weekend! Save me from being condemned to only accomplishing yard work and other nearly useless tasks.

[alamogunr]

Rigging things to save your back most definitely helps. When I was doing large melts to ingots, I made a stand sort of like a sawbuck and salvaged some scrap walkway grating from work as a surface to set my ingot molds on. It was sturdy enough and large enough to both pour and dump ingots on to cool. When I got to about two tons of ingots, I got rid of a lot of stuff that was taking up storage room. Never thought that I would want to use it for mixing various alloys. Should have gotten rid of the pot and burner stand too so I wouldn't be tempted to do that heavy work any more.

[lightman]

Good grief, I don't think I would want to move 3 or 4 batches of 400 lbs. in ingots let alone as raw material, then in a ladle, then as completed ingots to storage location. It is supposed to be a fun hobby not strength training for the Octagon!

On the other hand having 1,200 to 1,600 lbs. of lead stacked up at the end of the day does sound sort of nice. Me I figure a couple of hundred pounds is a good days work. Two pots or so. And if being honest I feel like I have accomplished something if I get one pot into finished labeled and stored ingots. Of course the larger 2.5 lb. ingots and more molds might help. The angle iron bar ingots are only about 1.5 lbs.

I ordered from Advanced Car Movers when I posted a couple of days ago, it was after hours in the evening. I just got an email with a tracking number so essentially one full business day to process and shipping on the second day. Oh please be here by this weekend! Save me from being condemned to only accomplishing yard work and other nearly useless tasks.

Roger, thats a busy day for sure. Three batches is not too bad. Four batches is a hard day. Thats just melting, fluxing and casting ingots. It may include set up and breaking down and a little cleaning up. But the ingots won't be stamped or put away. And I'll have at least one buddy helping. I wouldn't be up to that kind of day alone! I do have my operation set up where everything is close together. I have one of those heavy duty flat carts like you see at Lowes that I keep most of my stuff on. Buckets of lead, a bucket for my tools and ingot molds, a landing zone all right there.

And these big smelts may be a thing of the past. I'm not aggressively hunting lead anymore although I'll take whatever comes my way. I've even scrounged good enough that my buddies are stocked up pretty well.

But you are correct about the satisfaction. When I'm sipping on that beer at the end of the day and looking at that stack of ingots the aches and pains subside a little! Think good tired!

I hope your new ladle arrives in time for you to use it this weekend.

[Walks]

I keep thinking about buying one to fill the 1x4 ingot molds. Thinking about a #4 too.

But then I think, my arthritis is not going to get any better.
If ya got 20+yrs to use one before you start to physically degrade it's gonna be great.

[kevin c]

Used the #5 today with the 4x2.5# CB molds. A few observations:

There's a lot of aluminum in these molds, and a cold mold chills the pour to solidus quickly. Ugly ingots until the mold warms up.

Flooding the mold to link the four ingots (to label 10# once rather than 2.5# four times) didn't work for me today. The linked ingots refused to drop. I think the bridging metal is causing binding as the cooling ingots shrink.

A very full ladle can fill the four cavities, but it's much easier to do two or three. I'm liking two, as it sets up an regular cadence of two pours per mold.

It's easy to splash with the #5. The problem is worse trying to do a controlled pour with a full ladle: a slow stream chills more easily, especially in a cold mold, and the solidifying metal in the bottom of the mold makes the flow into the rest of the mold erratic. Better to get hot metal into a hot mold, but then there's the splashing from the more rapid pour. I found that the problem was worse pouring into the mold at right angles fron the long side: the pour hits the bottom and splashes up off the sidewall of the cavity. It works much better to pour along the long axis of the mold so the pour can run the length of the cavity to slow down. This also lets me pours faster, and, if the mold is cold and the metal solidifying on first contact, I can run the pour up and down the length of the cavity, letting the hot fresh alloy remelt the first part of the pour. Less ugly ingots that way, at least until the mold heats up.

[RogerDat]

Sounds like filling the 4 x 2.5 cast boolit molds is a lot like filling the angle iron molds as far as filling goes. Long way works best with the pour moving down then back. Really need to pre-heat to get smooth ingots.

Don't think I want the 4 cavities tied together. Will take up more room having a gap between each ingot, won't fit tight in a SFRB either.

I sort of suspected only handling the 5# or 7.5# to do two or three cavities might work best, good to have it confirmed. I get what you mean about doing 2 cavities per filling sets up a good cadence.

Walks - something to consider the #5 empty only weighs 1 pound more than the #4 and you have the option of not filling the #5 with any more lead than the #4. I went with the #5 because it allows me to go both ways. Only a couple or three pounds in the bowl or twice as much as the #4 and any amount in between for that one extra pound of ladle weight and some of that is probably the longer handle which might (hopefully) provide leverage to more than compensate for the extra bowl weight.

The specific size of the ingots being 2.5 pounds did mean that the #4 couldn't do two cavities (5 lbs.) which a #5 could do if just filled a bit over 1/2 full. That was a big factor for me. Eventually I will probably want a smaller one for ease of use and doing smaller jobs like pewter or scrap solder melts. The older I get the more I'm willing to pace myself at a slower pace as long as I get to keep making progress in the direction I want to go.

I like to think of it as getting smart enough to use a wheel barrow to move a bag of cement instead of carrying them one at a time at a fast walk or using the wheel barrow to haul three bags because it's fast. One bag in a barrow trip is still getting the bags moved just working at my "smarter" pace.

If I live to use one for another 20 years I'll get to tell everyone see I told you working with lead isn't bad for your health, just don't lick your fingers or the ingots. Only problem is most of the people I know who questioned casting lead will probably be dead in 20 years cheating me out of an "I told you so".

[RogerDat]

Well bother! I have had a tracking number for a couple of days but not showing as actually moving in USPS tracking site. Just pre-printed label. I sort of think it unlikely that the label was printed without there being a box to stick it on and ship so....

Who knows. But no reason at this point to expect I'll be able to pour nice skimmed ingots for dear wife on mothers day with new ladle. Except that I have seen the tracking info not update until package is out for delivery before. So.... fingers still crossed. Does make typing tough though.

[lightman]

I take it that your ladle did not arrive? I was hoping that you would get to use it this weekend and post some pictures.

[RogerDat]

I take it that your ladle did not arrive? I was hoping that you would get to use it this weekend and post some pictures.

Today, I was working from home, it has been sooo hard to ignore it. Thing is huge! I can drop a 2 liter bottle in it and it doesn't touch the sides. Or even come all that close to them. Taller than the plastic base of said soda bottle. I do have some molds warming on a hot plate :-) and will be hitting it really soon.

[RogerDat]

Today, I was working from home, it has been sooo hard to ignore it. Thing is huge! I can drop a 2 liter bottle in it and it doesn't touch the sides. Or even come all that close to them. Taller than the plastic base of said soda bottle. I do have some molds warming on a hot plate :-) and will be hitting it really soon.

First impressions. Big bowl sucks up heat like deep space! Unless one has about 50# of molten lead in a dutch oven to float the bowl in it won't get hot. Not hot means can't ladle lead into it to pour without lead in bowl getting semi hard so you can't pour it. So you can ladle the last 30# in the dutch oven from a 100# batch but not going to do a 30# batch with a ladle that big.

I need some expanded metal and a block so I can set the ladle directly over the burner and prop the handle on a metal block. It is literally the size of a small pot so... why not use it like one?

Pours fairly well but there are side ports in the spout so if you let the bowl get too far down it can pour top dross.

I think I would like the smaller one in the 2 or 3 pound range for most uses, if I was going to buy one for general use I think the smaller would be better. However my goal is to take several hundred pounds and make ingots in large batches so the larger size should work well for that use.

I will have a better feel for this when I get a chance to do a full pot. I was foolishly trying to whip out less than 20 lbs. of ingots from a couple of slabs I had that I needed to ship to someone in a SFRB it wasn't the tool for the job. Still it was fun to play with and that is something. I'm thinking that when I do the 350 lbs. of WW's it might come into its own.

Pictures will have to wait. I did take pictures however I'm tired and need to call it a night.

[lightman]

I just went out to look at mine. Its got lead smeared on the bottom covering up the letters but from your description mine must be a #4. Its about 4 or 4-1/2" in diameter and maybe 4" deep. It works well for the 4 cavity Lyman style molds that I use. I do have a smaller ladle for getting the last little bit of lead out of the pot. I only totally empty the pot on the last time around.

Be cautious heating your ladle over flames. I seem to remember reading warnings to not use the ladle as a melting pot. My pot is big enough to float mine on top of the melt.

[RogerDat]

I just went out to look at mine. Its got lead smeared on the bottom covering up the letters but from your description mine must be a #4. Its about 4 or 4-1/2" in diameter and maybe 4" deep. It works well for the 4 cavity Lyman style molds that I use. I do have a smaller ladle for getting the last little bit of lead out of the pot. I only totally empty the pot on the last time around.

Be cautious heating your ladle over flames. I seem to remember reading warnings to not use the ladle as a melting pot. My pot is big enough to float mine on top of the melt.

There is this from Rotometals but they have it under a paragraph on both cast iron and steel stamped bowl ladles. Not sure if it is for one, the other or both.
Warning - These are for ladling out of a pot for metals under 1000 F. Do not try to melt metals in these ladles as they will flake and holes will form.

My main need for the grill to direct heat the ladle is to get lead out of it or pre-heat. I can see dumping a small cooking pot worth of lead into it to pour ingots using the bottom pour. At less than about 40 lbs. one can't even get the ladle hot in my 110# dutch oven. Not enough contact with the lead. I would estimate at around 50# or more the melt can heat the big ladle enough to use a small ladle to fill without going slushy or semi-solid on hitting the big cool ladle.

I do have a couple of smaller old cast iron pots, such as those that are used with a plumbers lead furnace and those show some evidence of metal flaking off.

[kevin c]

I usually have 200# or more in my pot, so I can hold the bowl of my #5 down into molten metal up to the handle flange. There have been times, though, when I have much less in there, and can only partially submerge the bowl. The uncovered part can freeze lead, both inside and out, until it heats up.

Something that helps speed up heating the uncovered part is to use the small ladle to pour the melt over the uncovered part of the bowl, both inside and out, first to melt off the frozen lead, and continuing until the lead flows off without clinging.

Once hot, I shake molten drops off the exterior by tapping the empty ladle by the flange or handle on the rim of my steel pot (NOT CAST IRON) while the bowl is over the melt (BE SURE THE BOTTOM OF THE BOWL IS CLEAR OF THE MELT BEFORE DOING THIS!!!), and afterwards I fill with the small ladle. I don't dip the #5 into the melt after initial heating - I don't like dripping lead all over my work area. I try to keep a fill and pour cadence that keeps the bowl from cooling down too much. If the interior of the bowl starts showing a solidified layer, I upend and tap the ladle as above, freeing the solidified lead and restoring the bowl to full capacity for making uniform ten pound storage ingots. For the smaller CB ingots I think I might ladle into the Rowell more than the minimum needed for one or two cavities in order to keep the bowl hot, or maybe I'll need to periodically reheat the bowl. I guess it will depend on how hot I keep the pot, how much I ladle into the Rowell, how fast my cadence is, and what the weather is like.

[RogerDat]

Yeah the ambient temperature can make a big difference. I have a pre-heating hot plate that on a hot day can melt or keep a small pot molten. If it drops below around 40 it generally has a rim of solidified melt forming around the edges.

Have to get a couple more things lined up but then I'll be ready to do a few hundred pounds and see how it goes.

Those nice heavy and large Cast Boolit ingot molds are also a bit harder to get heated up well. Bigger than the pre-heat hot plate burner so losing heat to the air at all 4 corners. Filling them of course does wonders but in terms of pre-heating they are a little tougher to get first cast ready.

I think I was under filling just a bit. Stacked in SFRB they were a little narrow to equal the full dimension. I wasn't going all the way up to the top of the mold I think. Tapered mold means fuller is wider.

Looks like Sunday. Supposed to be nice on Saturday so yard work rules the get it done list. Try to get the prep work done during the week.

[RogerDat]

I ordered and received a Rowell #3 bottom pour ladle. Have not used it yet but at 3 inch diameter it is close to the same size as a ladle I commonly use for making ingots, Mostly slabs in bread loaf pans but also in molds. Most of the time I use a 3.5 inch diameter ladle this Rowell is only 3 inch but it is deeper.

Have not used it yet but think it will be useful for less than full pots that are not uncommon with scrap yard lead. Not uncommon to get 35 - 75 lbs. of some type of lead at one time.

I have used the larger #5 for a full pot and it worked, toward the last 1/4 to 1/3 of the Harbor Freight Dutch Oven I was setting the big ladle in the lead and bailing it full using a smaller ladle. Up to that point I was rocking and rolling with the big boy. 60 lbs. in 12 pours. The last 30 or 40 lbs was a bit frantic with the bailing and trying to keep the temp up on mold & ladle.

I think switching to this new Rowell at a smaller size will be more efficient for that bottom of the pot ladling. Can easily fill a single 2.5 lb capacity mold cavity. Rather than scooping and dumping into the big ladle, then picking the big ladle up to dump in the mold. Handling the lead 2x seems inefficient. With hot molds I could dump a pound or so from the small ladle into the next cavity before refilling to pour some more. Make it to be three scoops. Same as it would take to fill the big ladle.

[kevin c]

Please keep us up to date on how it goes. The double ladling thing I can put up with for the big ten pound storage ingots, but direct ladling sounds like it could be more efficient for the 2.5# quad ingot molds. Even at four fills with a #3 or three with a #4, with easy, light moves to the mold for four ingot pours, it seems less trouble than the most efficient double pour technique I have come up with with the #5 (three ladle fills of the #5, a slow careful transfer of 16 plus pounds to the mold, followed by the four ingot pours).

[RogerDat]

I only fill my #5 enough to do two ingots @ 2.5 lbs. each. Maybe around 2/3 filled rather than full. I found I had a better rhythm to pour two, scoop, pour two, next mold. Easier to handle that monster ladle if it wasn't full. Will probably do the same with the newly arrived #3. Fill it enough to easily do a single ingot @ 2.5 lbs. so a little over half of the 4 lb. capacity. It is possible I will fill ladle and pour 1 1/2 ingots per pour. Will have to see what works best.

I do have a set up that allows me to not move bowl of lead very far. With the big ladle it is almost brace arms and pivot. Pour and pivot back to pot.

Have a nice little problem. Too much lead and casting alloy for my back to deal with. Have some tin based alloy from organ pipes in a couple of buckets that has to be sorted and melted. A few pieces of pewter. And member BNE got back to me with XRF testing of alloy I have stacked on a pallet in bulk bread loaf pan slabs. Now that I know what that alloy is I need to use the Bumpo calculator and figure out what to mix together to make CB ingots with it. Then I'm going to do a bunch of plain soft lead that has started to oxidize and is in a bunch of different ingot forms. Re-smelt and make standard CB ingots of it.

Oh and a fellow member hooked me up with some sheet metal I can use to cover the pallet I cast on so the wood won't char as quickly or as badly. I essentially stand in my garage moving in circles like a 4 year old with a sneaker nailed to the floor and the laces double knotted. (laces, what we used before velcro to attach our shoes that proved we were "big" kids)

Snow is supposed to melt this weekend, lot of little outside stuff, and a gun show nearby but... hopefully some lead will become pretty bars so I can really give these ladles a work out. As most of us know any boots can feel good in the store, it is when we actually use them that we find out how they fit us. Will let folks know how they "fit" after I get to give them a bit of a work out.

Problem is a lot of big melting won't really clear any space, the smaller stuff or more tedious operations will. I do have a plan. I put away or straighten 4 things out there every evening. Some days I get ambitious and get to 6 things. Someplace in there making big 100# plus batches of ingots is going to fit in.

[RogerDat]

Well have done 300# of plain lead in 2.5 lb ingots. Plus another 400 to 500 pounds of bread loaf pan slabs of assorted alloys.


The ladles have that bottom ring to allow them to sit flat. It drips lead. Maybe the spout does and it runs down bowl to drip off that ring but get noticeably more drips than my regular ladles.
The larger ladle is ideal for the bread loaf pan slabs. Two pours and approx. 16 pound slab is results.
Found the larger ladle is more useful doing 2.5 lb ingots 3 per fill. Especially as long as the pot is full enough to get full ladle per scoop. Better rhythm be hanged, more ingots, less filling and moving between pot and mold.
Smaller #3 ladle works fine also doing only one ingot per fill. Fill ladle less than full to keep weight down and can move pretty fast.
Ladle spout pours a wider and flatter stream. If not hot enough one can pour voids due to the lead solidifying in a sheet within the mold creating a pocket.
I ended up using a thin wall soup ladle with a bent handle to scoop melt into the bottom pour ladle. Was able to get the bottom of the pot and go fast enough that things didn't cool off. Or mostly fast enough. Last couple of ingots set pretty quick. Like as being poured.
The ladles are right handed. Not a problem for me but those who use Satan's hand as their dominant hand might find it more difficult to use
In a full Harbor Freight Dutch Oven (110+ lbs) at 45 or 50 degree ambient temperature the larger ladle drops the melt temp by 50 degrees when placed in the melt.


I store scrap in 10 to 16 pound slabs poured in bread loaf pans until tested. The larger #5 ladle rocked at cranking those out.

I use the tested slabs alloy content with the alloy calculator when making casting alloy. I generally pour the casting alloy into slabs to have tested before I go to the work of pouring smaller ingots. This melting of tested mixed slabs for smaller ingots provides a final chance to do any minor tweaking to the casting alloy based on testing. It is an extra step but I like my Lyman #2 to be close enough to "store bought" when in ingots I'm going to use.

The reason I made small ingots from the 300 lbs of plain soft lead is they don't require any additional testing, anymore than COWW's do. I know the sources for that soft lead are essentially "pure" or close enough.

[lightman]

It sounds like you have been busy! I'm hoping to give my ladle a workout after hunting season closes. I have enough wheel weights to make a 400# batch and a buddy has a big pile of pole top pins laying in my shop floor waiting for their turn in the pot. Those are pretty slow to melt, not having a lot of contact with the pot.

[RogerDat]

It sounds like you have been busy! I'm hoping to give my ladle a workout after hunting season closes. I have enough wheel weights to make a 400# batch and a buddy has a big pile of pole top pins laying in my shop floor waiting for their turn in the pot. Those are pretty slow to melt, not having a lot of contact with the pot.If one can keep a 1/4 or 1/2 inch of lead in the bottom of the pot it can really help speed up melting the oddly shaped items. Once the bottom layer of lead melts the odd shaped items settle into it making a lot more contact than when just sitting on top of a flat pot bottom.

Starting from a cold pot or pre-heating the items being melted is required. Never smart to put lead item into molten lead, least little condensation going under the molten lead and it is hello tinsel fairy. And boy does that broad make a mess at best and is painful at worst. I once had a ladle that formed moisture coming in over the top of the hot pot, no fairy but one doesn't expect recoil from putting a ladle in the pot.

Yes busy, and paying for it just a bit. However am getting some stuff straightened up and put away while the lead melts. Why dear wife may actually get a car in there for Christmas... as long as she agrees to keep funding my propane purchases. :-)

[kevin c]

Thanks for the observations, RogerDat.

It turns out that I picked up a #3 Rowell, but I haven't used it yet to cast any 2.5 pounders (have to recover from some doctoring first).

Even submerging the bowl of the #5 in the melt for a minute plus, there'll be a few stubborn drops of alloy that cling to the exterior, which is why I'll do the tapping I described before, and why I prefer to charge the big ladle with the small one rather than dipping directly into the melt. Dunno what I'm going to do with the small Rowell: ladle charging that one sorta kills the pace.

Since I empty my processing pot to change alloys everything in the pot gets poured. I leave the burner on for the last ladle pours so they flow well. When the alloy level is too low to scoop into the ladle the burner gets turned off and I'll use vice grips to lift and pour the last ingot.

[lightman]

Roger, those are all good points and pretty much how I do all of my smelting. I've only messed with these pole top and cross arm pins once before. I'll be helping a buddy with these. I'm not even sure if they are worth the effort or not.

The cross arm pin is basically a 5/8 in bolt with a shoulder on it and they are about 12 inches long. Theres a lead cap with lead threads on about 1 inch of one end of it. My best guess is that each of them have about 5 oz of lead on them. I thought that it would be soft but test have shown it to be about like clip on weights.

It would go much faster if we cut the leaded end off and didn't put the whole thing in the pot. But thats a good bit of labor and we decided to let a few dollars of propane do the work for us!

Ladles ------- I think my Rowell ladle is a #4. It will hold more than enough to fill a Lyman style ingot mold. It does get lead stuck to it and that lead dribbles a little. It has some lead stuck to it right now, covering up whatever print that is on the bottom of it. I consider it to be a worth while purchase. If you're melting several hundred pounds of lead at a time it sure speeds things up.

I'll post up some pictures when we start on these, probably early next year after hunting season closes.

[winelover]

The large ladles, I'm sure work fine, when smelting pot is full. The issue is getting a ladle full, when the pot is low. I own, two Rowells......#1 and #2. The #2, I use for smelting, as well as casting. It will fill half of a RCBS, Lyman, Lee or Saeco ingot mould. I don't find double dipping a problem. When the pot gets too low to fill the #2, I switch over to the #1.

Winelover

[kevin c]

The large ladles, I'm sure work fine, when smelting pot is full. The issue is getting a ladle full, when the pot is low...When the pot gets too low to fill the #2, I switch over to the #1...
Winelover
Which is why RogerDat and I use a soup ladle to fill the big Rowells from the pot. It takes almost three full ladles to fill my #5, but the advantage is that I can get alloy from the pot down near the bottom, and I'm not dipping and dripping with the Rowell. I can also tilt the soup ladle as I scoop, so I can even get alloy from below the depth of the shallow bowl (it helps that my pot has a curved bottom). So for the big Rowells the inefficiency of ladling into the ladle is made up for by filling it to capacity, emptying nearly the full capacity of the pot before having to melt more alloy, and less mess. It's just that with a #3 I'm not so sure ladling into the ladle is worth it, since I'd be pouring only one ingot at a time versus three or four with the full #5.