30-30 die not sizing oversized brass.

[Bazoo]

I have a Lyman 30-30 full length sizing die that don't size bulged cases down enough to chamber. If I size cases fired in my rifle there is no problem, but brass from a sloppy chamber, it doesn't size the base enough to chamber in my gun. I don't have a chamber gage to check against.

Lyman sent it as a replacement to another die, so I'm the only owner. I spun it in my drill and used 1000 grit paper on a dowel to polish it 2 or 3 times (I can't remember) to remove scratches.

I didn't think I sanded it enough to change the dimension substantially but I didn't try any bulged brass before I polished it a few times.

So is it as simple as I changed the dimensions and ruined the die? Or would it have been like this to begin with and I only now notice? Anyone run into this before?

Opinions and advice welcome.

I have a CH die that sizes the cases more and they will chamber by the way.

[EDG]

I have ran into that reloading militay brass.
I sized it and made the ram dwell at full stroke for about 5 seconds.
I lowered the ram a little and turned the brass 1/3 of a turn. I sized it again with a dwell. Then the brass was turned again and sized once more with the dwell.
The extra sizing gives the brass more time to creep to exactly conform to the die.
If extra sizing passes do not work you might need a new die though Lymans are known to be really tight to begin with.

[1hole]

First, the inside of a sizer die is case hardened as a woodpecker's lips. It's very unlikely you took enough metal off the die wall to even measure.

Second, .30-30 is a modest pressure cartridge so it's very unlikely any part of your pick up cases are stretched enough to make for hard resizing.

The most likely cause of your difficulty is failure to fully insert your cases into your die. Forget any "instructions" to adjust a sizer to touch the shell holder and go a half turn (or whatever) deeper." Instead, set up your sizer as you normally do and raise a case as far up as you now do - then look under the bottom of the die and see if there's a gap showing between the die and shell holder. If there is, and I'd bet on it, adjust the die down a little bit more and repeat the test until the gap is closed.

Good luck!

[mdi]

Another hint; whenever there is a fit issue, measure. Measure the "too big" cases to see where the case is too big. Measure along the neck and body all the way to the case head and compare with a "good"case. Finding where the case is too big will help you find when/why it's too big...

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the replies.
I haven't tried sizing the brass turn and sizing again. It didn't occur to me even though I've heard of it for military brass. Thanks for the idea.

The brass in question is bulged pretty large at the base of the body, up to the web. The web is not bulged though. If I can remember I'll get a picture.

I am using a Lee hand press, and I always set the dies so that the shellholder bottoms out excessively to account for the spring in the press.

[EDG]

>>>I am using a Lee hand press<<<

You might want to use a better stronger press. You are already having issues and your press is known to be wimpy.
One of the fundamentals of solving sizing issues is to use a much bigger hammer if you are not already using a really big hammer.

[44magLeo]

When you say Lee hand press I assume you mean the hand held press. If so that could be part of the problem.
A bit more lube at the tight spot might help.
Lyman used to make a full length size die to go along with the 310/Tru Line JR tools. It is a die that you pound the case in with a mallet. then drive out with a punch. I know this because the 30/30 310 set I have came with the full length size die and a cast boolit size die.
One of these my size those tough cases.
The Lee Classic Loader sizes this way. A set like that will be easier to find.
I might suggest keeping your brass separate. When you shoot factory loads keep them in the boxes they came in. Any range pick up brass can be sorted by head stamp and kept separate.
By keeping the brass in lots like this you can keep better track of how many times they get fired.
You might even notice a bit better accuracy.
You have a CH die that can size those tough case so they chamber then just use that die on the tough cases.
If you like the way the rest of the steps are done with the Lyman dies then size with the CH then finish with the Lyman dies.
Leo

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the replies.

The fact that I'm using a lee hand press isn't germane to the issue I'm having. I am sure to adjust the die down so it bottoms out even with the press spring. When using the CH die this bulged brass sizes fine using the hand press.

I have been using parts of both die sets.

I keep my brass in lots, with records on each as to times loaded and what load. I keep my once fired brass separate from range brass of same headstamp.

I have a Lyman hand die that I just picked up on the forum. The lee loader doesn't body size, only neck sizes so that won't help at all.

My post is not how can I solve my issue, as it's easy enough to just use the CH die. My post is, why is my Lyman die not sizing this bulged brass far enough, and did I sand it open or was it like that from the factory? And, dies anyone else have this experience with a sizing die?

[Hamish]

Bazoo,

I do it the way EDG does, if I can feel the brass sizing pretty easily, I do a down stroke, raise, and spin the case 180*, otherwise, it's thirds, *especially* when forming.

[44magLeo]

I doubt there is anything wrong with your Lyman die. I doubt you sanded out enough steel to effect the die.
The cutting tool they use to make dies wears a bit with each die it cuts. There is a max amount of wear allowed. Your Lyman die may have been cut late in the run.
Your CH die may have been cut early in the run. Thus tighter, so it can size the bulged cases smaller.
Leo

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the reply Leo, I think you have it reversed though. They would start with a large cutter and as it wears and gets resharpened it would get smaller.

[EDG]

I have polished dozens*** of dies and I have never had one that failed to resize cases.
I have used dies for forming cases that did not resize the cases properly. Even so when resizing multiple times they often forced the case head small enough to use. That is why I recommend multiple sizing passes.
You may set your die to touch the shell holder. However a badly expanded case can still spring your little press. The extra spring can prevent the die from touching the shell holder when sizing some of the cases.
I have seen that happen even with a cast iron C press. It might only be one out of 5 or one out of 10 cases but it can still happen.

***
The dies I have polished were mostly bought used off of Ebay over a about a 20 year period. They for the most part were only lightly scratched from dust particles so they only required a quick 1 to 2 minute polish with 400 grit wet or dry. However I have had several Herter's dies that were very rough and had a poorly located vent hole. The vent hole scratched the cases badly when it was used for forming. A heavy polish of the die shoulder area got rid of the scratching and the die still sized the cases properly. I have also had to polish the vent hole on several Lee FL dies though the rest of the die interior was well finished.
The worst polishing was a FL die that I got that was badly rusted inside. I must have spent 10 minutes polishing that die and checking it. When finished it had a faint set of interior ripples that looked like alligator skin on the inside. The die interior was rust free but a little wavy.
I was concerned that I might polish it oversize so I tested it on some cases. Even with the ripples it sized my brass like a new die and the cases chambered in several rifles.




Thanks for the replies.

The fact that I'm using a lee hand press isn't germane to the issue I'm having. I am sure to adjust the die down so it bottoms out even with the press spring. When using the CH die this bulged brass sizes fine using the hand press.

I have been using parts of both die sets.

I keep my brass in lots, with records on each as to times loaded and what load. I keep my once fired brass separate from range brass of same headstamp.

I have a Lyman hand die that I just picked up on the forum. The lee loader doesn't body size, only neck sizes so that won't help at all.

My post is not how can I solve my issue, as it's easy enough to just use the CH die. My post is, why is my Lyman die not sizing this bulged brass far enough, and did I sand it open or was it like that from the factory? And, dies anyone else have this experience with a sizing die?

[Bazoo]

Thank you for the detailed reply EDG.

I set the die low enough in the hand press so that the shell holder not only touches the die but that the handle has 5/8" (I just measured) before it touches the frame. When sizing, the handle doesn't bottom out on the frame. Admittedly I haven't sized any of the brass in question with my bench press.

[earlmck]

Like EDG says, there is no way your polishing messed up the dimensions of your die. It's just one of those "tolerance" things; all these items -- dies and chambers -- have +/- tolerances. You just got a Lyman die toward the max side of allowable and a chamber toward the minimum side and it can result in your issue. Good that you have the CH die handy. I have the exact same issue but in 45/70 where the RCBS die doesn't size quite enough with a case fired in a large chambered gun, but my Lee die will take it down enough.

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the reply earlmck.

I don't have a way to check it, but I do believe my chamber is on the tight side. My action is tight, not much wear on my gun.

I ran into a few cases for a different batch even the CH die would not size the other night. I have a Lyman hand die that I just bought I used for those. That did the trick but was slow, and then I run them over the expander ball so the mouth would fit over the pilot of my trimmer.

[Baltimoreed]

I had a tight chambered 25-06 Remington Sendero and my RCBS sizer wasn’t sizing the brass enough. I sent my sizer and 3 new fired cases to them and they sent me another sizer that worked fine. Might give Lyman a call to see if they have a similar policy. A rock chucker press and plenty of case lube and you should be able to size down anything.