Bedding a Hook Breach?

[Eddie2002]

Been looking at my CVA Hawken in .50 caliber and realized that the tang where the hook breach sits has a real sorry job done for it's inletting. It looks good from the top but underneath there is almost enough room for the Titanic to fit between the metal and wood. Since it's a shooter and didn't cost much to begin with is there any reason why I can't bed the tang into the stock with something like JB Weld. The bedding will be hidden under the tang and hopefully will tighten up the barrel back by the action and tang area. I know that bedding the action works with those funny looking new condom rifles but have never heard anyone doing it to a real rifle like my front stuffer. ;)
Thanks

[Gunor]

Bedding, yes. Use Acragel or some better bedding epoxy, than JB Weld. Just my 2 cents. I just like to use a mainstream bedding material.

[arcticap]

I think that a person would need to be careful to not alter the angle of the tang or else risk how the barrel sits in the barrel channel.

When the the tang was fitted, the assembler was probably more concerned about the barrel being pushed rearward by the recoil from the barrel than
about any downward forces on the tang.
If the barrel is being well supported sitting inside of the barrel channel, then how will the tang move?

It would be nice to have everything fit flush and perfect, but if the barrel channel is low, then you wouldn't want to raise the tang or alter its position by applying epoxy.
I guess that you need to decide which is more risky, to add the epoxy or not to add it.
I'm also not sure how permanent J&B Weld is when used on wood over a long period of time.
Some people probably do bed their muzzle loader barrels, but there's also other temporary fixes for a loose barrel channel such as
applying the right amount of masking tape in the right places.

There's also an alternate way to attach the front of the barrel to the forestock with instead of a using a wedge.
Some sidelock models have a front barrel lug which attaches to a screw in the forestock [backed by a washer] to help secure the front of the barrel.

[country gent]

I have bedded muzzle loaders in the past barrel hooked breech and the area behind under hook.1 was done due to loose wedge and was bedded up at the pin and Hooked breech 2: under barrel and back of barrel. Tightened wedge up and rifle became a very accurate shooter, better than it was new. One thing with the muzzle loaders with wedge pins is I believe releasing tension on wedge during off season or extended down time will help prolong bedding life lowering compression on the bedding. I used micro bed colored to match stock on these. Accra Glass Gel, reguar accra glass, bisonite, marine tex, plastic steel all should do well here

[Eddie2002]

The reason I'm asking about bedding is that when I tighten the tang screw down tight a small gap appears between the end of the barrel and the tang. After checking it out it looks like the tang and socket that the hook sits in moves down a bit causing the misalignment probably because the channel the tang sits in is just a little too deep. The hook end of the barrel doesn't mate square with the front of the socket when the tang screw is tight. Can't see how bedding it can hurt, it just needs something solid to set down on when tightened up. I'll give it a try because now that I've found something that's not right I've just got to fix it.
Country Gent, I've some plastic Steel out in the shop so I'll use that. Not too worried about the color, the bedding will be hidden when the gun is together.

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=arcticap;4639716]I think that a person would need to be careful to not alter the angle of the tang or else risk how the barrel sits in the barrel channel.

When the the tang was fitted, the assembler was probably more concerned about the barrel being pushed rearward by the recoil from the barrel than
about any downward forces on the tang.

Mate its a CVA !
much as I love em (I am a fan of the older CVA's, still own several and shoot em as my main match rifles, nobody made a better barrel)
BUT - I reckon the assembler of all the ones I have had was way more interested in the next coffee break than in his wood to metal fit

My 54 I fitted the barrel and hook neat to the tang then bedded the tang - also then bedded the barrel in the area of the lock and again just behind the forend cap - its setup so I can only just get the barrel wedge in by leaning on things - shoots nice like that.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Yes bedding the tang & trigger improves accuracy a ton on the cva and traditions guns. Just wax the parts good and use your preferred bedding agent. I used the Original JB Weld with superb results. Better than accraglass.
https://i.postimg.cc/HnLtZJ1b/IMG_7381.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://i.postimg.cc/KzfNDPwZ/IMG_7375.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Highly important area below!
https://i.postimg.cc/QCnJRXjw/IMG_7384.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://i.postimg.cc/tRrk1zFk/IMG_7386.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

If its factory finished rifle, use a couple layers of masking tape around the tang area and then light coating of wax/release agent over the tape. Then cut it out.
https://i.postimg.cc/Fs7Z0JZ4/IMG_7393.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://i.postimg.cc/MKNY5KPj/IMG_7398.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

The reason I'm asking about bedding is that when I tighten the tang screw down tight a small gap appears between the end of the barrel and the tang.


Yes, that means theres movement at the front of the tang inletting. You can cut some plastic pop can shims and place it under the front of the tang, then screw it down snug and see if that fixes the issue. If it does, take note to how thick those shims are and put some bedding under there. Never fully tighten down on the tang screw when you lay down the bedding, just finger tight and let it dry.

[indian joe]

Yes, that means theres movement at the front of the tang inletting. You can cut some plastic pop can shims and place it under the front of the tang, then screw it down snug and see if that fixes the issue. If it does, take note to how thick those shims are and put some bedding under there. Never fully tighten down on the tang screw when you lay down the bedding, just finger tight and let it dry.

Excellent instrucions for the back end -
I would add bedding the forend - about two inches worth just behind the forend cap - leave the barrel tenon out till its done and set the barrel up with a spacer piece of manila folder card between wood and barrel ahead of the tenon slot - done this way, when its assembled there is substantial tension on the barrel tenon pin but a whisker of clearance between barrel and wood except for the bedded areas front and rear - the tension is even and consistent - mine shoots nice. The 54 barrel is quite light for a muzzle loader, only a 15/16th octagonal, we have a 45 cal in the same configuration didnt seem to need the bedding job - but I still like that barrel tenon to go in tight and I will use a piece of that manilla folder card up front as a spacer and maybe a second small piece on the bottom flat if more is needed - can bend the tenon to tighten it up too.

[Eddie2002]

FrontierMZ, that's exactly what I'm dealing with around the socket end of the tang. Great pictures of the poor inletting and even better instructions on how to bed that area, thanks. The rifle was a basket case, maybe a kit poorly assembled, I picked up a few years ago at a show which I have pretty much cleaned up to the point where it's a decent shooter. I even picked up a sixth place back in January for a 100 yard free hand shoot with it I'm not too worried about the finish but will protect it with some tape. Thanks again.

[oldracer]

When I assembled mine I attached the hook breech and the tang together with some super glue once they have as close to 100% contact as possible. I use some of my wife's old bright red lipstick for marking. I then carve out where the tang fits into the stock unless it has already been done by the company making the kit. I use the red lipstick again to insure a tight fit. I have one rifle kit that had the same trouble as yours and I used lacquer thinner to clean the affected areas since the rifle had been shot then as noted used some bedding material then clamped the hooked breech and tang and used some Saran Wrap to prevent the metal from being stuck to the stock for ever! The Saran Wrap is very thin so once the bedding sets up the breech and tang have no gap at all.
John

[OverMax]

I dont dare bed my breech. Switching barrels occasionally leaves me a bit suspicious such doing could inhibit my stocks change out ability. As far as I know all bedding's require a purposeful release agent. Knowing my luck I'd end up with permanent bonding likely.

[Eddie2002]

I've use Johnson furniture paste wax as a release agent on other projects and it works just fine. Didn't think about bedding the last few inches of the barrel where it mates with the tang, can't see how it couldn't help overall. Going to give it a try once I get a little time together in the shop. ;)

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

johnsons floor paste wax does great. I normally do 2 thin coats, bed everything and then give it a full 24 hours. Remove screws and gently tape the barrel/tang with a plastic mallet.

[Buzzard II]

Great photos! Thank you!