advice wanted

[teddy65]

I am looking for thoughts on shooting and loading 38/55 vs 40/65. I have been shooting 45/70 for a few years and would like to expand my shooting experiences with a new (to me) caliber. My shooting would be limited to 400 yards or less. I prefer to buy my cast boolits rather than casting them myself. I would make my cases if the process is not too difficult. Availability of production cases would help me decide. Any thoughts on brands of rifles that shoot those calipers is also wanted (single shot). Please give me some guidance.

[BrentD]

Teddy,
The door is open very wide. There are many guns that shoot those cartridges from Sharps, to highwalls, to rollers, Ballards, CPA Stevens, and on. None of them are inherently better than the others, so pick one that suits your tastes and your pocketbook. Brass for both are made by Starline, or .40-65 can be easily formed from .45-70. I'd take the .40-65 every time if the only objective is the most X's. I'd do it with a highwall because I happen to really like everything about them. But some guys prefer brunettes, so...

[rfd]

IMHO, the best value these dayze in a '74 #1 sharps replica is the pedersoli "silhouette" .40-65 model offered by dixiegunworks (https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/8341/category_id/314/product_name/CR0513+PEDERSOLI+Sharps+M1874+Silhouette+Rifle%2C+ .40-65) for $1200. i have a pair, one that's in the process of yet again becoming a transgendered .45-70 and t'other is left box stock and eating PPB cartridges exclusively. i like the .40-65 cartridge and i think it offers a good compromise between a .45-70 and .38-55 in terms of both performance and economics.

building good cartridges is really no big deal, and dittos for casting good bullets, whether grooved greasers or the slick paper patched kind. a lyman snover mould, some starline brass, real black powder, and a few other cartridge building and casting tools and yer good to go.

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/static/images/main/CR0415.JPG

[rfd]

teddy65 - perhaps it would be best if you told us what will be the prime use of this new gun yer seeking to acquire. most any and all will be plinkers and/or good hunters with their supplied barrel sights and commercial or home built cartridges. paper and steel consistent accuracy at distances to 400 yards means much better sights and more precise hand crafted rounds.

[teddy65]

Thanks All!! I worked up different loads for my 45/70 and enjoyed the experience. I want to do the same with a different cartridge. I would be using it mainly for side matches at CAS and for fun at my own shooting range. My property setup limits my practice to 300 yards. I have to travel to a friends pasture to get over that yardage. I shoot only black with my 45/70's. The challenge of working up an accurate load for the 45/70's appealed to me. That is why I am asking about the other cartridges. Is there much difference in recoil between the 38's and 40's? I wonder about that as I get older and realize I am not as tuff as I used to be. I think I might try to pose the same question to BPCR site. THANKS

[rfd]

as mentioned, i PP for the .40-65 and can easily stuff in over 72 grains of swiss 1-1/2 under a .393" x 392 grain slick. in comparison to 83 grains of 1-1/2 under a .443" x 523 grain slick, yes - the recoil of the .40 is noticeably less without use of any recoil pads. however, i do have shoulder issues and do use both a past shoulder pad and a kick killer butt pad, so i can fire off a hundred rounds or more of either a .40 or .45 with zero shoulder after effects. if yer loading greasers then you might do 65 grains for the .45 w/500 grain bullet, and less than 60 for the .40-65 w/400 grain bullet, so recoil will be even less of an issue. as to the .40 versus the .38, i shot a friends .38-55 and it i can't say the .38 felt dramatically less in recoil. i think the the .40-65 is the better cartridge overall, particularly for bullet and loading selections, and the fact it can hold its own well out beyond 600 yards ... i know of at least one published match score results where a .40-65 greaser (55 grains under a 410 grain bullet) beat out the pack at 700 to 1000 yards with a match score record.

[country gent]

I shoot several different BPCRs. loaded strictly with black powder. Some grease groove ad some paper patched. Calibers and rifles are as follows 38-55 1-12 twist in C Sharps high wall. 40-65 1-14 twist in a CPA silhouette model, 45-70 1-18 twists Pedersili sharps long range, rem rolling block, BRC Brochardt. and 45-90 1-18 twist in a C Sharps rem Hepburn.
I shoot local bpcr silhouette matches out to 400 and 500 yds. Practice at 200 yds

38-55 = 1-12 twist I shoot a 360 grn nasa bullet cast from 20-1 lubed with spg or emmerts improved. Very accurate my highwall is right around 12 lbs recoil is easy to handle. Powder and lead last longer loading this cartridge. Accuracy at full ranges is very good. Brass is available in 2 versions from starline and cheap enough that making it from other calibers isn't needed. Fairly easy to load and work with, mine has been a very interesting rifle cartridge combo.

40-65 = 1-14 twist Here I shoot 2 bullets a 400 grn Nasa and a 425 grn PP. ( very occasionally a 400 grn lyman postel) Again cast from 20-1 and spg or emmerts lube These all shoot well at full ranges and are accurate. Round goes thru powder and lead faster. Brass is available from starline and can be formed from 45-70. Again easy to load and get good results. Seems to move swinging rams a little more than the 38-55. A fine cartridge that preforms well

45-70 = 1-18 twist Here I shoot on the heavy side and several different bullets. 500 grn lyman rdngivt, 535 postel 550 grn old west silhouette and a 540 grn PP bullet Again all lubed with spg or emmerts improved and cast from 20-1. brass is available from many sources rem win starline norma. Again not overly expensive. Burns powder and lead at a fast rate. roughly 100 rds in a lb of powder and 12-14 bullets to the pound. No doubt when the rams are hit as the swing and a very nice ring comes back. Again a lot of data available and easy to get good results with.

45-90 = 1-18 twist Same bullets lubes alloy as 45-70. much more powder, more recoil. A little more finicky to load for than the 2.1" cases. A very good round and hits hard. capable of wrapping 200 yd chickens around cross bar they hang from and rams at 500 jump. the ring is very pronounced. Only around 70 rds to the lb of powder. Brass is available from starline and a little more expensive at close to $1.00 a case.

I find little difference in recoil between 38-55 and 40-65. With proper fouling control and lube I see little difference. The big difference is in the economics. A good rifle in either caliber will be very good and enjoyable to work with. I like the 38-55 a lot, am having a second one built a Hepburn this time.

What I would recommend is to attend some local BPCR matches and look at the different rifles handle some if you can and see what fits / feels right to you. Then chose the caliber and order it.

[John Boy]

Any thoughts on brands of rifles that shoot those calipers is also wanted (single shot).
38-55 is a solid 300yd caliber
40-60 is a solid 100 to 1000yd caliber
So don't limit yourself

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Since you have, I assume many 45-70 cases it is easy to make 40-65 cases. Simply run the 45-70 case into the 40-65 sizing die. I own two each 38-55 rifles, two 45-70, one 4o-65 & one 40-60 Maynard. While I love to 38s, the full length cases are getting harder to buy and they are expensive. As others have pointed out, the 40 calibers are more versatile. If you go with the 40-65, buy Lyman cowboy action dies. They are great. Good luck

[jednorris]

When they have recommended .40/65, that is ALL.

[rfd]

there ya go, we've decided for ya, you want the .40-65 cartridge. ;)

if you want new gun and can wait a year or two, order out a shiloh or c.sharps. better yet, get the pedersoli and have it at yer FFL inside of a week for half the cost and no loss of performance and quality.

[Gunlaker]

If you do not intend to cast bullets then you might be quite limited by what you can find in .40 cal.

I would seriously consider getting into casting your own bullets as store bought bullets will limit the accuracy you'll be able to get from the rifle.

Chris.

[38-72]

I shoot both calibers (and several others). They both will work well at 400 yards, but the 40-65 will do it just a bit better than the 38-55. And if the wind blows at all, the 40-65 is a better choice. When shooting beyond 600 yards, with black powder loads, the 40-65 is a distance second to the 45-70. Larger caliber rounds work just a good as the smaller ones at short distances, but the smaller ones will not work as good as the bigger rounds at the longer distances.