Making a 30-30 Small Base Die

[Bazoo]

I have some 30-30 brass that was fired in a real sloppy chamber. It has a ring at the base that my die doesn't size the base down quite far enough. It will chamber but is snug.

Well I have a spare die body that leaves a mark on the brass at the vent hole. Been thinking I could cut the die off on the top just below the shoulder area, and then grind odd about .010 from the bottom so that I could get that brass sized down more at the base.

It would of course size the body a little more, but I don't see a problem as I'm only going to use it for the brass as needed and not every time.

Anyone have ideas or advice for me?

Thanks

~Bazoo

[Winger Ed.]

That should work.


Hopefully ya got a chop saw or die grinder/cut off wheel.
Those dies are harder than Chinese Algebra.

If you're doing it with a saw, it might be cheaper to buy a $20 Lee set instead of a handful of saw blades.

[3leggedturtle]

I did that with a 222 die for over size 223 bases, a friend wanted the neck and shoulder section for another project. Just make sure you get a chamfer on it, after shortening the die or you'll not enjoy the scratches it leaves! Todd

[barrabruce]

How would a flat shell holder and just squeeze the brass in a bit more.
Knock out with a punch and hammer from the top with the depriming /neck expander etc removed.

[Texas by God]

What about thinning a shell holder on the top surface so the case will enter the die a bit further?

[Nobade]

I use a 38-55 die for that. Worth a try if you have one.
If you do cut your 30-30 die, anneal it at the cut first and it works better.

[gnostic]

What about thinning a shell holder on the top surface so the case will enter the die a bit further?

That's the way I did it when making 7.65 Arg from 3006. Go slowly with emery cloth until you're happy with the fit...

[jmorris]

What about thinning a shell holder on the top surface so the case will enter the die a bit further?

If you shove the case in deeper than necessary you shove the shoulder back more than needed, that will require more trimming and will blow it out again next time you fire so you repeat and at some point you have case head separation.

So the OP is thinking correctly in removing the shoulder portion of a die.

I don’t know what kind of rifle you are using or if the brass was fired in it or how much of the brass you have.

All of the above would be factors is what direction I would take.

[lar45]

What about thinning a shell holder on the top surface so the case will enter the die a bit further?
That would set the shoulder back also.

[Jedman]

It sounds like it would be best to scrap the brass unless you have another gun it will work in.
Being the bottom .200 of the case head is solid brass and you only have about half of that above the shell holder your die will not reduce that diameter even if you can get it lower.
Grinding off the top surface of the shell holder is excellent way to change headspace on a chamber that is slightly short but wount allow the sizing die to change the solid head if that is what is making it snug.
I have had brass like you describe and don't have a cure for it. Sometimes if your regular die set will not do just scrap the brass. If it was in a caliber that that the brass was $ 1 a piece or more I would spend more time trying to make it work but 30-30 is to cheap to give yourself a headache over.

Jedman

[country gent]

Bazoo. Your idea is sound and should work. cutting off at or just below the shoulder of the die will keep it from pushing the shoulder back. Not sure where the shoulder falls in relation to threads you may end up putting lock ring inside the press opening but that's not a big problem. Cutting the base of the die down will make a small change in size Look up the body taper on a 30-30 case and see what .010 -.015 length affects dia bet its less than .0015 on the dia. Where you will gain is removing the radius from the die mouth. This cuts the radius almost in half meaning its sizing down onto the case more.

Make the cut at the shoulder or just below removing that portion of the die. (You could reach inside with a drill a little bigger than shoulder dia and remove shoulder that way also)
Polish and radius the edges smoothing and removing burrs. That pretty much finishes this end of the die. If you decide to drill it out use a drill a fe w thousandths bigger than the shoulder and flat ground with a small radius stoned on the corners. this will cut straight with a good finish. You would only need to push the shoulder back 1/4" or so
On the die mouth remove .010-.020 making the radius much smaller and tighter this also allows case to enter a little further. On the new radius just polish it good to to move any burrs. Don't try to increase it back up.

The die done like this should iron out the base and body .

I believe I would just use the drill and cut the shoulder back. this would allow the die to be made into a trim die at a later point if desired.

[Willbird]

I have re worked quite a few dies in the lathe, every one I worked with so far was just case hardened. Making a body die should work but whether you can get the case deep enough to size the case as far as it goes into the chamber and still use a shell holder is doubtful.

But IMHO the solid head of the case should NOT have yielded and swelled up with any "normal" type 30-30 loads.

One thing that comes to mind after looking around at some case drawings is using a 10mm or 40 S&W die and just tapping the cases in and out with a mallet the old school Lee loader way. Those series of cases are .424" at the base and if the "ring" is bigger than that they may reduce it some.

Bill

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Willbird beat me. The .40 S&W and/or 10mm sizing dies should work. Lee makes a push-through die that works for both. Run your the 30-30 up to the rim in that die, then push/tap out (lots of lube). Set the case ON TOP of a smaller shellholder (.357, .223, 22 Hornet) to run up against the die.

[Bazoo]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Lots of ideas. The brass in question was given to me and I have a batch of 88 W-W Super I'm working with. The other brass that was with it all has this bulge, and it's just above the case web.

Honestly I think the brass is once fired or close to it. There isn't any dings around the case rim or extractor marks, or any die marks. It just looks like it was fired in a sloppy chamber . The shoulder is well rounded on most of it. Looks like it was fired in at least two different guns. I don't detect anything when feeling with a paper clip.

I've loaded 5 and primer pockets felt normal. And there wasn't any issues or gas leakage on the 5 I fired.

I like the idea of drilling out the shoulder area so I can save the top half for a file trim die. Thanks for that country gent, gives me some more pondering to do.

[Bazoo]

The 40s&w die trick is a good idea, as is the 38/55 die. I don't load either of those calibers. I'll ponder this also.

[Wayne Smith]

Search eBay for a Lyman hand die - thay were made to full length size cases in a vice or with a hammer - but use lube! Knock them out with a rod - these were made to fully size a case.

And guys - this is a 30-30 - it headspaces on the rim!!

[jmorris]

And guys - this is a 30-30 - it headspaces on the rim!!

That makes no difference, you shove the shoulder back the neck will get longer when you size and you cut off that material so it will chamber.

You do the same thing again and still have to trim, the case gets thinner and thinner until it’s two pieces, the base and the top.

There are ways to get really close but not without knowing what we are dealing with.

When you can get 200 pcs of once fired 30-30 for $30, there is not a lot of reason to be machining dies unless you just want something to do.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/677846718/30-30-brass-200-pieces?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_b-toys_and_games-sports_and_outdoor_games-hunting_and_archery-hunting-other&utm_custom1=_kenshoo_clickid_&utm_content=go_304504355_41986972479_196696903099_ pla-315906364691_t__677846718&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpNTj8fr44QIVwh-tBh21gwFOEAQYASABEgIr9_D_BwE

[bedbugbilly]

If it's just a batch of brass with the issue - you might see if anyone had one for the old Lyman whack a sizers that you could borrow = one of those should take care of the problem and you woudn[t have to alter a shell holder or a die. I checked as I thought I had one but evidently I must have traded/given it away at some point in time.

[Bazoo]

Thanks bedbugbilly for the though. Looks like I bought one of those off the swapping and selling last night. I'm pretty excited bout it.

I hate to waste all yalls time who's made comments and suggestions, I most likely will not go further if the die I bought works.

[EDG]

The Lyman chrome plated dies of the 60s and 70s were notorious for being really tight. You might try one of them or a .38-55 die.

You can also try a common drill bushing in 27/64 diameter. Just lube it and push it down to the rim.

[FredBuddy]

I had the same problem as the OP.
My brother gave me a pile of once fired brass
from his rifle and its oversized chamber.
Sized in my RCBS die, fits in all but one of
my 6 30-30's.
Fortunately I also have a Redding die set,
and that sizing die is tighter and solved the
problem for #6.
Lots of good suggestions in this thread,
especially the 40 S&W idea.
I know, 30-30 brass is cheap, but what
happens when it ain't......................

[EDG]

If you have a lathe you can spin polish the heck out of the die with the vent hole problem until it works without scratching your brass.



I have some 30-30 brass that was fired in a real sloppy chamber. It has a ring at the base that my die doesn't size the base down quite far enough. It will chamber but is snug.

Well I have a spare die body that leaves a mark on the brass at the vent hole. Been thinking I could cut the die off on the top just below the shoulder area, and then grind odd about .010 from the bottom so that I could get that brass sized down more at the base.

It would of course size the body a little more, but I don't see a problem as I'm only going to use it for the brass as needed and not every time.

Anyone have ideas or advice for me?

Thanks

~Bazoo

[Bazoo]

Thanks EDG for the suggestion. I've tried several times to polish it. I don't have a lathe but I reversed the decapping stem and used that to spin it in a drill. I spun it both ways and polished with 1000 grit paper on a dowel. It makes a little raised bump where the vent hole is. It is in the center of the shoulder. The other dies I have with vent holes have the hole lower on the die right at the junction between body and shoulder.