Any tips for fixing this old shed?

[pmer]

The bottom support for this shed is rotting away. I'm not sure what is the best way to go for replacement of that beam. I have a couple beams that can go in there, I could use some advice to start off on right foot.

It's a 2 story with wood floors. It was used as a grainery with 3 bins in the first level and a bigger bin on the second level which has a chute that goes down stairs. I've been working on cleaning it out and getting old junk and oats cleaned out of there.

So here are some pictures, I wonder if I take out what's left of that beam if it weaken that wall? Looks like pictures aren't going to good I can try later.

[Winger Ed.]

Buildings have a lifespan.

Looks like that one is about at it's end.

It might be my imagination, but I think woods rots faster and faster once the rot gets ahold of it.

It might be better in the long run to pull it down and replace it with a steel building on a slab.

If you're going to fix it, ya need to jack it up just enough to slide in the new beam, and set it back down.

[metricmonkeywrench]

Ive seen the guys on This Old House replace a sill, best case you can get inside and run a 4x4 beam across the roof and with 4x4s pillars on top of big bottle jacks planted firmly on a solid floor if not all the way to the ground to "lift" and take the load off that outside wall and support that end wile you replace the sill with something more serviceable. You may also have to go up into the wall and either splice or sister in new studs up the wall based on how bad the rot is on the lower ends.

Its a big job either way, good luck. will be following to see how it turns out.

[modified5]

You would have to jack the building up and replace that beam, then set it back down.
However, looking at the outside condition, without seeing what the rest of it looks like, it may all come down once you start jacking it up.
I would be very cautious with this project.
Stay safe.

[ShooterAZ]

If that building was in my neck of the woods, it would be full of termites. It's pretty far gone, any attempts of jacking it up and replacing beams may cause it to collapse.

[Conditor22]

would need more and better pictures and information.

Need substructure, interior, and some distance pictures to get a better feel for this.Know what kind of weight we're dealing with. Looks like the sides are tied to the center which makes things more interesting.

Not saying it can't be done, but if you're not 100% sure about what you're doing, don't do it, not worth the risk.

Try IMGUR for pictures http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?375622-Posting-Pictures-using-IMGUR

[lefty o]

rip it down, sell off whats not rotted as barn wood (yes people pay good money for it), and build new.

[RED BEAR]

Are you trying to repair it permanently or just so you can use it? If you just want to be able to use it i would suggest jacking it up and placing a beam under it a n set it on the new beam. I wouldn't jack directly on building i would use small beam to jack say a 2x12 couple feet long. If you want to do a permanent fix you need to jack it up and cut old beam out and replace and i would put new foundation supports. Now i am no contractor but i have jerry rigged a lot of stuff. But a lot af contractor's will give you a free estimate and you can discuss what they recommend and you can decide if you want to try it yourself.

[pmer]

Thanks for all the input guys. Here are some more pics. It is 20' high, 15' wide and 16' deep. The lean to sheds are 12' and 14' wide.

[MaryB]

create a temporary wall 3-4' back from the rotted area on the inside, make sure there is support under the floor! Use 2x4's that are a little to long and as you beat them in place they will lift that end 1/2 inch or so. Cut out ALL rot, sister in new studs, replace sill beam... might have to replace some of the flooring(don't put rotted floor between new sill and studs, it will start rotting them immediately!

How I did one wall in my kitchen where the sill was rotted... Cut floor joists back 2' added 2' back on with a 4' piece each side to attach to the old, did same for the wall studs. I got lucky and floor was still sound... it is a LOT of hard work!

[pmer]

Her are a couple from underneath. Yeah I suppose something like imgur would have went better.

Thit's wood doesn't look too bad.

There is a beam, sill? About two feet back from the rotted one for making a temporary wall like MaryB mentioned.

[pmer]

Are you trying to repair it permanently or just so you can use it? If you just want to be able to use it i would suggest jacking it up and placing a beam under it a n set it on the new beam. I wouldn't jack directly on building i would use small beam to jack say a 2x12 couple feet long. If you want to do a permanent fix you need to jack it up and cut old beam out and replace and i would put new foundation supports. Now i am no contractor but i have jerry rigged a lot of stuff. But a lot af contractor's will give you a free estimate and you can discuss what they recommend and you can decide if you want to try it yourself.

I think it was repaired some time ago like how you're saying by looking at some ruff cut 2x8s towards the middle.

[Bazoo]

I think you could jack the building up on that second beam, replace the sill place, lop off the studs and scab on repair sections. It'd be a fun project, and id be glad to help if you was round these parts.

[nun2kute]

I cant give you any advice, and I wish I could somehow give you Boat Loads of encouragement. I would really like to see some new life breathed into that old building. It's really disappointing to see old buildings just demo'd without thought to history or maybe the Future ?! I see tons of possibilities, I just don't have the experience to help.

[pmer]

Thanks again everyone! I got some great ideas from all of these posts. I think I should take a closer look at the corner on the left side and the sill that goes to the rear left corner of the building. There is more dirt on that side making it harder to see. I'd like to try and fix it if possible.

[SciFiJim]

rip it down, sell off whats not rotted as barn wood (yes people pay good money for it), and build new.

I had a cousin build a mansion on a lake and use barn wood for the flooring. All of the wood had to be planed for even dimensions, but after it was finished, it looked amazing. Any yeah he paid good money for that wood. He bought an entire barn and had it disassembled and finished to use as wood flooring.

[Kraschenbirn]

After running a renovation/restoration business for 20-some years, it looks like the sill replacement and floor/wall repair are 'doable' but I'd have to do an assessment of the whole structure to make a call on the economic feasibility. Material cost shouldn't be too bad if you've already got (or can borrow) the necessary jacks but, in my experience, realigning something that's been that badly settled is going to cause something else to shift. One time, I leveled the hardwood floors of a late Victorian (circa 1900-1905) and had to refit about half the downstairs doors and window sashes.

Bill

[Bazoo]

Bill has a good point, it might not be feasible to fix it completely level. Fix it as close as you can, jack it up a little at a time and check it several times to make sure everything's okay. Better to fix the corner and it still be 2" low than to pop all the boards across 1/4 of the buildings adjoining sides.

[Petrol & Powder]

I would suggest 5 gallons of diesel and a road flare.

[NyFirefighter357]

It's hard to tell without seeing it in person. Looks like the attached building to the left has also sagged in that corner as well. That's a gable wall and isn't structural. How level is the floor itself? I've jacked up several structures, slow and steady is the key. Looks like your down about 4" or the height of one clapboard. The sill needs to be replaced and the studs need to be sistered and a proper foundation installed. You need to remove the door, about 2ft of the siding and the flooring to that seam were the next joist/beam is. That wall looks to be 12ft wide, I would run a 3x10x16 beam across the front of the building above the removed siding at the angle of the dip, extending out both sides. Use structural screws like Spax to secure the beam to the wall on the joists.I would then screw a 2x6 the length of the wall even with the outside beam on the inside then I would through bolt the beams with all 1/2" all thread or carriage bolts and sandwich the wall. The right side doesn't look like it needs to come up more than to clear the old foundation height. I would make a good solid base for the jacks to sit. Jack up that left side just enough to see it move and give it a day. I'd jack it up about 1/4" or so a day this lets things settle in to their new position. What's level? You may have to fudge this some, if the 3x beam was placed at the angle of the dangle even with the sagging wall/siding you might use it to figure level. You jack 4" at once and your sure to blow something apart. Get it just over the height you want. I'd replace the sill plate with a pressure treated full length 6x6 or I'd make a form and pour a short foundation wall with a pressure treated sill plate. Set the plate at the final height you need. I'd cut away the bad ends of the studs, sister a stud at least a foot higher to one side and fill in what I cut out. Lower the wall back on your new plate. Remove the jacks & beams. You'll have to see what you need to attach the floor, install the siding and door. The door may need some work but may go right back in as well. Over all it's not a lot of materials or work it's just time consuming. Good luck, Jay

[pmer]

We'll have to keep Petrol & Powder away from this project at least for now LOL.

The neighbors barn has a roof that is caving in. It's about 40 x 80' and she is in the works to have it disassembled.

I have a corn crib with oak boards that should or could be disassembled. There is a barn here that is older than that grainery with logs and beams. It's in great shape still.

[bedbugbilly]

You are there so only you know the real condition of the sills, sill supports, etc. - so all we have to go by are photos - so all we can do is "arm chair quarterback". :-) I have had similar situations on old buildings - especially on our farm with field stone foundations - post and be a, construction, construction like you building, tamarack pole rafters, etc.

Looking at your first photo - obviously the sill needs replacing but if your sill is rotten, then the ends of the studs most likely have rot as well. It looks like the outer siding would have to be removed and you could probably stub in repairs stubs on the end of your studs to even them all off before putting a new sill/sill beam in - but I'm guessing that the supports for the bothm sill are not level so something would need to be done there as well. Dimensions of the lumber in the building are probably hit and miss as well.

Wood only lasts so long - buildings settle over the years - I can understand your desire to save the building but you need to weigh the cost offing the repair right as opposed to tearing down and replacing with something else. If you are going to repair - then find some good building jacks - these are large screw type jacks that can be place underneath a beam straddling the floor joists underneath, etc. in order to gently raise things up just enough to be able to get the old sill/beam out and foundation supports repaired/leveled, ne sill/beam installed and repairs to studs that need it. Remember that when you "raise" an old building - even though it might be minimal, something else has to give which may create another problem somewhere else - and if the building is "wired" - raising can put strain on the wiring so after you are finished, that needs to be addressed to insure the wiring is still safe and something hasn't been pulled to creat arcing and a fire.''

You will have to determine what to use for your new sill beam - based on span and weight supported. It may be that a treated beam could be used. If it were mine, I would check once I knew the dimensions of the needed support beam to see if there were a local saw mill who could cut a new beam out of white oak with will last many years and pretty much be rot resistant - but use white oak - not red oak.

Good luck o you restoration if you decide it is worth it - if you want it to look "original" - you probably could find some center matched pattern 116 to replace the old siding apply it horizontally - if any mills are still producing it and it might have to be special ordered from a lumberyard - or - strip the outside wall wit 1 by material and screw metal siding to it.

On any old building, just remember that it's likely that nothing is level or square.

[Froogal]

I had a building in similar condition. I tried several times to shore it up and stabilize it but it just continued to deteriorate. A few years ago I made the decision to tear it down, salvage the good lumber, and eventually use it to build a new building. That is when I learned why none of my stabilizing tricks had ever been very successful. With the exception of the tin on the roof, absolutely none of the lumber was salvageable. It made a really good bonfire.

[Smoke4320]

going by pictures only I would teardown and start over.. Salvage what you can and build better
YMMV

[Conditor22]

https://i.imgur.com/W0KLgDL.jpg

Where the floor sunk between the garage and the main structure, did only the floor sink or did the bearing wall sink also.
you can see where the siding pulled away from the verticle trim.
need pictures of the substructure at the corner where it sunk.
https://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Water-Level
If you have a 50 ft clear plastic tube or a wat to put 12" of clear tubing on the ends of a 50 ft hose you can make a water level by dilling the tube/hose with colored water to where it's 6" down from both ends when you hold the ends together. Make a reference mark at one corner at an easy height to see and have 1 person with one end of the hose stand at the reference mark and the other person go to one of the corners. [keep a finger over the end of the hose until both people have the hose/tube at approximately the same level. remove fingers from both ends then the person at the reference mark lines up the water with the mark. when the water is lined up then the second person marks the corner they are at. repeat this for all 4 corners. This will give you a level mark at all 4 corners. * the building may not have been level, to begin with*
https://i.imgur.com/imwwplc.jpg

find out how far the floor at the corner of AB has dropped compared to the corner of BC
how much did AB drop from back to front?

did the floor joist/beams (A) come loose from wall AB

what were the floor beams originally set on? what are they on now

[jonp]

Snap a line high enough to reach solid wood on the studs, cut across and build a box under them then reside to shed the rain. Done it many times including the back porch of my current house

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I would suggest 5 gallons of diesel and a road flare.

Tannerite will disassemble a barn in a hurry...

The one in the video appears to be in better shape than the op's.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=edRbcTXAijY

[Petrol & Powder]

If you blow it up you then must pick up the pieces.

If you burn it down, you scrap the roof, run a magnet over the ashes to pick up the nails and rake up what's left.

I've worked on those old buildings and the problems never stop. The more you fix, the more trouble you find. You reach a tipping point where the repairs cost so much in money and effort that you feel the only way to go is to keep fixing them even after it's clear you shouldn't have started.

It's easy to look at them and see the good parts while saying, "this is still good and that is still good". However, you should look at them and say, "this needs to be totally replaced and that needs to be totally replaced".

Don't get nostalgic over something that was an inexpensive, utilitarian agriculture building to start with.

[lefty o]

im tellin ya, people pay stupid money for old barn wood. probably more than pay to rebuild new, and on some level footings to boot!

[MaryB]

Also once you start be prepared for a money pit... you will keep finding bad timbers...

[pmer]

Conditor, I'm not sure when buildings A & C came about. I'd think they are newer than A. There are concrete slabs in the side sheds and they aren't the best either. There are some good points for tearing it down. Like when Petrol & Powder says look at parts from the point of view of needs replaced rather than what's good.

I'm sure there is market for barn wood. Local Craigs List has barn wood for sale and couple barns to tear down and remove for free. Not to mention my neighbor wants her old barn removed too.

Are tear downs done piece by piece?

[Petrol & Powder]

While there is some market for old timbers, it takes more than just being old to make a piece of lumber valuable.

Long, thick beams and floor boards may be valuable if they can be economically salvaged. It helps if they are made from desirable species of trees (Oak, hard maple, Chestnut, etc.) and are free from large notches, rot and hardware.

However, just being old doesn't guarantee value.

Farmers didn't earn a living for themselves and their families by dumping all of their profits into buildings. The notion that, "they made them right back in the day", is total hogwash. Most agricultural buildings were made to be functional and inexpensive to construct.

[6bg6ga]

My advice is go to the nearest gas station and fill up a 5 gallon container. Walk into the shed open the container and begin dumping the contents on the floor and walls. Cap the container and place it 100 feet from the building. Walk back to the building and drop several lit matches on the gas soaked floor and run like hell.

[blackthorn]

My advice is go to the nearest gas station and fill up a 5 gallon container. Walk into the shed open the container and begin dumping the contents on the floor and walls. Cap the container and place it 100 feet from the building. Walk back to the building and drop several lit matches on the gas soaked floor and run like hell.

Although I'm sure the above was said in jest, if you go this route use diesel, not gas---you use gas and you will not be able to outrun the blast----just saying.

[jdfoxinc]

Explosives. It's the only answer.

[pmer]

I tried the imgur.. here is the corn crib. It had oak 1x4s.

http://imgur.com/gallery/KyesnAg

[Bazoo]

Personally, I vote repair it. But then I like old stuff, old guns, grandmas, vintage gear, old tools. Just like when folks buy an old farm house, gut the kitchen and turn it into a show room, then claim they love old farm houses because of all the charm.

[corbinace]

My vote is to repair as well. This is a relatively easy repair job for retaining the three building sections. You are not trying to make a living space, you just want to store stuff in the dry and not have it collapse on your stuff.

The appropriate steps have already been outlined in the posts above, all you need to do is add labor and a bit of materials.

Sure, you could get a piece of equipment and clean up the building and foundation in short order. But then you go to the County and find out what a building permit costs and then all of the inspections and headaches, only to have an eyesore of a pole barn in the yard.

Oh yeah, in our area you can only have an outbuilding that is 900 square feet or 60% of your house size which ever is larger.

That building is standing today and took probably 100 years to get in that shape. If you spend a bit of time this summer on it, it will still be standing after you are in the ground.

[Petrol & Powder]

Corbinace, you're offering advice based on the building codes in your area. The OP is in Minnesota.

[1911sw45]

Repair it. There is way to many old buildings that are being tore down these days. Barns was the prize to the farmers that put them up. Shame people don't realize what these barns meant to the people. New medal buildings look ugly and have no soul to them.

[Petrol & Powder]

We're not talking about some beautiful old Pennsylvania Dutch barn with thick 35' long Oak beams, Chestnut siding, standing seam copper roof and built on a solid rock foundation that extends 4' into the ground..........

Age doesn't guarantee quality. Agricultural buildings are built to be functional and inexpensive. They are generally not architectural works of art. They are practical structures usually built cheaply to serve a purpose, including those soul-less metal buildings of the current era.

I've been in enough of those crappy old farm buildings and worked on a few to confidentially say that most of them are not revered memorials to their builders. Nor are they particularly well built. The vast majority of them cost more to disassemble than they're worth in firewood even if you took the time to pull them down.

If the building is beyond economical repair and it means a lot to you, take a picture of the **** thing before you burn it down and start over.

[Echo]

Buildings have a lifespan.

Looks like that one is about at it's end.

It might be my imagination, but I think woods rots faster and faster once the rot gets ahold of it.

It might be better in the long run to pull it down and replace it with a steel building on a slab.

If you're going to fix it, ya need to jack it up just enough to slide in the new beam, and set it back down.

Plus one - that old girl has served her time, needs to be retired, and replaced.

[Conditor22]

How much time and patience do you have and how good is your back and fear of heights? Demo by hand, carefully for resale. The less damage to the wood the more it's worth.

Some would say let the buyer demo it BUT you would need to have the buyer sign an accident waiver to protect you because he's on your property.

A quick way to get it down it let the fire department do practice burns. It's far enough away from anything

[Adam20]

A good way to look at it, what is good. Foundation, floors, walls, roof. Looks like its all bad.
Like restoring a 1987 Pontiac grand am.

[samari46]

Here in Louisiana it's fairly common when a house has to be moved. Jack it up, start placing cribbing (usually 4'x4's, 6"x6's and sometimes for big houses usually one floor 8"x8's) this is a time consuming process. Once they get it high enough the truck or trucks go underneath the house and they slowly start removeing the cribbing. Actually pretty cool to watch. In your case your building is basically sitting on the floor which has a long beam of questionable strength. The beam is being held up by rocks. if you are really interested in saving the old girl you are going to have to rent, beg, or otherwise get some heavy duty screwjacks. Probably 20 ton minimum, make sure that they are all level then you can mess with the floor beams. Watch out for any suspicious creeks or movement of the walls. Repeat the process until the building is at least 2" higher.Use a 4 foot level and adjust the jacks to level the floor. If the beams run in more than one direction nows the time to add jacks and cribbing. If no move is planned then get a building inspector in to give you a construction and work permit. Truthfully I'd have it torn down and the other two buildings on either side. Rent a D cat and some long 1" steel wire rope,encircle the building couple or two times and tie one end to the cat and let him pull the building down. If you are set, it's going to cost easy 10 grand to even start jacking up the building and start leveling with the jacks and cribbing.Demo teams usually come in with a couple of high rise back hoes and in about two hours have every thing on the ground.Hate to be the wet blanket but the old girl isn't worth the time,$$$, and effort. Just watched an old 1 story building from time the equipment shows up to on the ground about two hours.If the adjoining bildings are like yours take all of them down. If they were on the federal register for historic buildings tou'd probably choke on the red take and they would have you do all the renovation to whet the building as to what it looked 100 years ago. Frank

[pmer]

Thanks again for all the comments. The newest out building here is a 30 x 40 pole shed. The rest are from pretty to very old. Took down an old chicken coop a couple years ago. What started this idea for me is wanting to put a concrete floor in the pole shed.

My barn is mostly hewn log and has a attached hayloft. If I put a garage door in that area where the hay used to be it would be easier to let these other buildings go. (From a storage point of view.)

These projects have been bubbling for a while as you might imagine.

[MaryB]

Strip it for the good wood, build a new building using it on a proper concrete foundation...

[ascast]

ilike your project. I would fix it, much cheaper than new. You can spike 2x12 or such to the outside to lift it. You have a lot of advice here. Keep us posted.

[jonp]

I'd level it with rocks and put rairoad ties down then set the building on it and sideb to shed the rain. RR ties won't ever rot

[Petrol & Powder]

5 gallons of diesel and a road flare..........

[lefty o]

I'd level it with rocks and put rairoad ties down then set the building on it and sideb to shed the rain. RR ties won't ever rot

RR ties definately last quite a while, but they sure do rot.

[jsizemore]

I use a variation on this:

https://www.finehomebuilding.com/1992/11/01/replacing-a-sill-on-grade

Most times I'll let-in the ledger if the studs are in good shape. 2x10 should be fine. To keep the studs from pivoting inward when you jack, you can nail a 2x6 across the bottom of the studs and run 2x6 to the opposite wall against a 2x6 laid along the base of the opposite wall. You don't need to dig out in front of the foundation like the illustration. Jack against the ledger where it meets the stud. A notch in the jacking stud helps.

On a number of single story farm buildings I have levered them up with a straight grain piece of pine with few knots or 4-6" green hickory or locust trunk.

The old timers I learned from said you just have to be 10% smarter then the tools and material. Good Luck with your project. Oh yeah, leave plenty of running room behind you.

[jsizemore]

RR ties definately last quite a while, but they sure do rot.

RR has a track mounted crane to lift the rails so the rotted ties can be replaced. Gravel still gets dug by hand in my area.

[Plate plinker]

Depends on the climate. I know a few hours further west of the OP they indeed last nearly forever.
RR ties definately last quite a while, but they sure do rot.

[jonp]

The ties don't actually rot. The trains weight cause them to eventually splinter and come apart. I have my shed at camp on bridge timbers. Sunk in the swampy ground and subject to much moisture and freeze/thaw cycles in the far North East, 50yrs later they are just fine

[lefty o]

they do rot, i have a retaining wall made of them. if they are in contact with the ground, they will rot over time.

[country gent]

Here's a thought to ponder. Dad had a old hip roof barn with hay mows and was an old animal barn 100 years ago. We spent a lot of time on up keep new timbers, roof repairs, siding repairs. the concrete help up. The building looked good but in the end He had a barn with useable mows that wasn't good or big enough for the modern farming equipment or set up for raising animals by "modern" standards. In the end ow much time energy and materials do you want to put into a building that isn't what you really want.

[pmer]

I have a lead for a couple screw jacks I suppose screw jacks R better than hydraulic jacks for this job?

[Conditor22]

Without more pictures and answers to questions, we can't safely help you.
need pictures of how A and B are joined underneath, condition of wood
need to know how far that corner dropped.
need pictures inside B at A to see what is there.

[jonp]

they do rot, i have a retaining wall made of them. if they are in contact with the ground, they will rot over time.

Disagree. Mine are 50yrs and counting. Creasote is awesome stuff.

You can get floor jacks at Lowes or Home Depot or where ever. I used my car jack to start then put the floor jacks under it. They are telescoping and have heavy pins in them with a screw and plate at the top for final adjustment.

Like these https://www.amazon.com/Akron-Adjustable-Telescoping-Temporary-Support/dp/B01LWVWARZ?psc=1&SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B01LWVWARZ

[lefty o]

there ya have it, some people RR tie's magically dont rot, so jack it up and slip some under the building. doh!

[sureYnot]

there ya have it, some people RR tie's magically dont rot, so jack it up and slip some under the building. doh!Think you spelled chemistry wrong.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

[MaryB]

When we lifted my front porch to level it we used an air bag attached to the truck exhaust. Slid it under 5-6 floor joists with a temp wall 12" back in from the edge to hold the roof(had to replace a corner post). Fired up the truck to bring it all up level, added the new post and a footer block under that corner, let air out of bag slowly then knocked out the temp wall to drop weight the 1/4 inch onto the new post