Break-free CLP

[sundog]

Joe, figgered we'd get this topic off the 8mm thread before we get our collctive arses kicked for hijacking. I'm gonna back peddle just a little on my earlier comment about it being 'crap'. It's not really and it does a good job in many instances, especially in the field for small arms, making it easier for the troops to keep their bullet launchers functioning. I won't change my mind about the cost however. There are so many other good and cheaper products. That said, if I had a gallon of CLP I'd use it, but I won't shell out denero for it. Did a google and found some interesting reading. If I never put another drop of it on a patch I wouldn't miss it. I remember when the stuff first hit the company supply and all the hype that came with it. The spray bottle was really good for application directly into receiver and bolts and carriers on automatic weapons to keep them functioning. Soak'em down and squeeze the trigger. Not exactly how I treat some of my better firearms. sundog

[StarMetal]

sundog,

Now we're on the same level pardner. I agree totally with it's expensive, too expensive. The M16 certainly had problems when first introduced, but alot of the problems where caused by the govt. Like to get it issued as fast as possible. The thing there was the troops where trained how to use it of course, but not how to maintain and clean it. Like I said before at first it wasn't issued with a cleaning book or tools. The govt told the soldiers it was a new wonder weapon, didn't need cleaned as often as previous weapons. Well they found out they were wrong, very wrong. So what do they go and do? They come out with CLP. You and I know gooping up your rilfe with this slick owl **** isn't the right thing to do. As an aside the military was given numerous opportunities to convert the M16 over to piston gas system and the constantly rejected it. It was reliable, definately kept the powder residues out of the action, the action stayed cleaner and cooler. Another benefit was the cycling rate came down to a more reasonable one.

Back on topic. I only use CLP of any brand to for example lube the slide rails on my semi-auto pistons, a drop on the sears, drop on barrel bushings, and after cleaning my AR 15 a drop on the bolt gas piston and rings and bolt rails. That's it, I have no other use for it. I'm just about out and don't know if I'll ever buy more.

Joe

[KCSO]

I got to be a big fan of CLP after a friend from the Navy dropped off a 5 gallon container. When that is all gone I will start shopping for something else.

[StarMetal]

Wow, sure wouldn't be hard to become a fan of a five gallon bucket of anything useful. How long you think it's been taking you to use that all up?

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

I came by CLP like KCSO did--about a 1/2 gallon plastic bottle with Mil Spec labeling, the given amount to be used for cleaning the bore of a 105mm field piece of some kind. That was 7 years ago, and I'm about 1/2 finished with it.

It's OK stuff for cleaning powder fouling, and will turn copper a little green in the same SLOWWWWWWWW fashion as Hoppe's. It's all right for slide rails on auto pistols, but I like RIG +P a lot better--esp. if it's steel slide on aluminum rails.

[lovedogs]

Personally, I thing most of our gun care products are little better than plain ol' kerosene or diesel fuel. Most don't do as claimed. There oughta be a law against false advertising. If I had all the money I've spent on junk that was advertised falsely I'd have a bigger selecion of guns.

[StarMetal]

lovedog,

I think one of the biggest lies in advertising is the one where they claim there product is so good that if you don't they give you your money back gauranteed. Well shoot, that's the stupidiest easiest thing to see through. They don't lose anything. Here's how the lawyers should fix that dump advertise. Gauranteed to work or $5000 back!!!! Yup, then let's see how many of them stand behind their product. Then they would have something to lose. In my opinion ads are made for folks with room temperature IQ's.

Joe

[waksupi]

The most serious of lifes shooting problems can be solved with three homemade things. Ed's Red. Blue Goop. And of course, Felix' World Famous Lube!

[Dale53]

waksupi;
I am a "Ed's Red" fan, also. I mixed up a gallon several years ago. Cost $8.00 (less the lanolin) and as the English say, "Works a treat"! I shot BPCR-Silhouette for about 15 years (until I could no longer be competitive because of vision problems). "Friendship Speed Juice" another home mix product (one pint each of: Murphy's Oil Soap, Rubbing Alcohol, and Hydrogen Peroxide) on two or three wet patches and a couple of dry patches totally removed the black powder fouling. I then ran a wet patch of Ed's Red through the bore and used the patch to wipe off the exterior. My three BPCR's are in like new shape after thousands of rounds through them.

Incidentally, muzzle loaders work well with both products, also. After a BP match, I would plug the touch hole or nipple and fill the barrel with Speed Juice and let set for 10 minutes while I was getting my gear together. Then I would pump a wet patch up and down (blew out the fire channel with Speed Juice). Then a couple of dry patches (would blow the fire channel clear and the rubbing alcohol would cause the residue to almost immediately evaporate). Then a wet patch of Ed's Red and I was good to go (used the wet patch to wip e off the exterior). I would then remove the nipple (this allows air to circulate through the bore). One drop of oil in the nipple (kept it in an empty cap box). When I got home I no gun to clean. No long "bucket of water" etc, when already tired. It was a great liberator. Takes ALL of the pain out of using black powder and the cost is minimal.

Dale53

[AnthonyB]

waksupi, what is Blue Goop? Tony

[carpetman]

AnthonyB-----What is blue goop? It is goop that is in bad need of the services of Dr Phil.

[45 2.1]

Dale, thanks very much for the recipe for "Friendship Speed Juice". I've been looking for it for awhile.

[waksupi]

waksupi, what is Blue Goop? Tony

Tony, Blue Goop is an old stand by of benchrest shooters. Get a gallon of strong (5%) ammonia. Put a piece of copper wire in it, until it turns a nice blue. Not really sure what adding the copper does, but that is the way it is made. It is excellent for removing copper jacket fouling. As with any ammonia based cleaner, don't leave it in the bore too long, and oil after use. For under five bucks, you have a gallon of bore cleaner that does everything the store bought stuff does.

For you guys using the Friendship mixture with peroxide. If you are using it in a ML, be prepared to pull your breechplug about once a year, and check the threads. It is a very good oxidizer, and likes to eat threads.

[Ricochet]

I use the ammonia straight, without pre-bluing it with copper wire. It turns blue nicely all by itself as it takes the copper out of your bore. Great stuff, and as an added benefit the water in it dissolves corrosive primer residue.

I just bought something as an aid to doing this. It works well to let it stand for a few minutes with the bore poured full of it. I've used various things to plug the bore, and was about to go out looking for rubber caps to slip over the muzzle. I saw a tip over at the Savageshooters forum to use crutch tips from the Wal-Mart pharmacy. Went looking and found that the big crutch tips are to slip over a 7/8" end (perfect for my varminter's heavy barrel) and the quad cane tips (that come 4/pack for $3.84) are for a 5/8" rod, perfect for most sporter and milsurp muzzles. Looking around further in hardware, I substituted 7/8" rubber chair tips for the big crutch tips. 98¢ as opposed to $3.29, I think. Wal-Mart didn't have anything comparably cheap in the 5/8" size, so I kept the quad cane tips. Might have to look around the car parts places for rubber caps for vacuum nipples, and cruise around Lowe's' plumbing section while at it.

[Dale53]

Waksupi;
I had occasion to pull the breechplug on my muzzleloader after several years of Friendship speed juice. It still had the original bluing in the fire channel!! There was absolutely NO rust or corrosion. I know at least 200 shooters in this part of the country who have been using the product without ANY problems. You DO have to oil the bore right after you use it as it removes EVERYTHING and there is nothing to protect the bore. When you run a couple of dry patches down the bore (I pump them) air is blown out the nipple and takes the moisture with it. The rubbing alcohol evaporates the solution off quickly. The I run a couple of wet patches (with Ed's Red) down the bore (pump them too).

One thing I learned at that "Ol' Crawdad Hole" Friendship (the most humid place I can remember being in (not counting down south) is to leave the nipple out of the gun. Air can circulate thru the barrel freely and it is not so apt to trap moisture inside.

One thing I neglected to mention, you do have to keep the mixture in a dark bottle. Otherwise the peroxide "dies". I use the first bottle for my mix, keeping the rest in a dark place, then over time, I collect additional bottles.

FWIW, I had Bill Knight, the black powder consultant and organic chemist, run tests on the mixture. He pronounced it completely safe for use as described. Bill has forgotten more about black powder than most of us will ever know.

Another suggestion, use "Never Seize" on your breech plug threads. It makes it MUCH easier to remove if you ever have to do so.

Dale53

Water is an oxidant, also.

[Ricochet]

Oops! Forget the chair tips. They're not elastic and undersized like the crutch tips. They're made of some sort of fairly hard plastic or rubber and won't seal. Stick with the crutch tips. Back to Wal-Mart I go.

[azcoyhunter]

My self being just a ***, but I love CLP

I used it alot in the Marines, and it worked great.

SO now I use it for my Glock 30, my 2 30/30s and my 7mm.

I even love the smell, but Hoppes smell is better.

Clint

[9.3X62AL]

I overlooked the most important element of both CLP and Hoppe's--THE AROMA. There's nothing like those two smells to keep wife and evil daughters out of the reloading sanctum. Wife will use Hoppe's, but wears exam gloves and a full-front shop apron she bought from Brownell's for this purpose.

[Lee]

Drat. It's late, I'm tired. Sorry ta be a pest, but can anyone post the link to the formula for Ed's Red??? I'm pretty sure I saw it here, gettin more interested by the day, and don't remember where I saw it??? Thanks in advance.........Lee ;-)

[45nut]

Heck,it seems like there are as many links to Eds Red recipes as for pancakes!

Have a look! Ed's Red (http://www.google.com/search?q=ed%27s+red&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official)

[Lee]

Many Thanks............................................ .Lee ;-)

[j4570]

I would also say CLP is pricey. I use it mainly on the AR and stainless firearms.

That being said, I found that FP10 is better on Stainless firearms.

I agree as a general solvent, CLP isn't that great, and I'll use Hoppes (bought in large containers cheap). No, I don't mix my own Ed's Red, as I don't have use for that much stuff.

I really hate to admit it, but stripping a steel pistol down (ie, 1911 or Star) and hosing it out with a can of $1 carb cleaner and lubing up works well. I'm talking the frame when it gets dirty. Brake cleaner is even better.

Everyone has their own way.

Jason

[brayhaven]

For you guys using the Friendship mixture with peroxide. If you are using it in a ML, be prepared to pull your breechplug about once a year, and check the threads. It is a very good oxidizer, and likes to eat threads.

As a former chemist & many years a gunsmith, this is good advice. I tell my customers to never put hydrogen peroxide in any gun in any form. The supposed reason is foaming, but I'd bet it does nothing but initiate underdeposit corrosion.
Greg

[9.3X62AL]

Brayhaven/Waksupi--

How about the Juice minus the Hydrogen Peroxide? Any real advantage to bucket treatment? I don't really think cleaning BP guns is any more hassle than is a smokeless gun, just different and maybe a little bit messier. As long as the process repels the wife and daughters from my garage, I'm up for about anything that works well and causes no harm.

[j4570]

I wouldn't put peroxide down a muzzleloader either.

My dad taught me to to clean a muzzleloader with pure hot water and soap. works great. Then use about 1/2 can wd40 getting all the water out (not all at once). Then clean with Hoppes (or something similiar), and oil to store. Of course, it has to come out of the stock to do this.

But it does work!

I love BP shooting, I need to dig out the BP six shooter, it was soooo much fun.

[waksupi]

Brayhaven/Waksupi--

How about the Juice minus the Hydrogen Peroxide? Any real advantage to bucket treatment? I don't really think cleaning BP guns is any more hassle than is a smokeless gun, just different and maybe a little bit messier. As long as the process repels the wife and daughters from my garage, I'm up for about anything that works well and causes no harm.]

Al, I see no problem using the other items. One friend likes tincture of green soap, and alcohol. In my range kit, I carry a bottle of water, with some detergent in it. Just look for one, where the word "surficants" is somewhere near the top of the list.

[deerslayer]

I have found that my wifes steam gun she uses for cleaning is about the best gun cleaner i can find especially for the muzzleloader just strip out the barrel and steam it and in about 4 seconds it is to hot to hold run a brush through it a few times and repeat steam and then a patch. The parts dry almost instantly and I use a little oil I do this every year after hunting season and all mine look new. I have also cleaned up extremely fouled barrels on used guns I have picked up cheap because the barrel was so fouled and they look new. No it won't take pits out but just about everything else.

[dominicfortune00]

When I used to shoot a flintlock ML, this is how I was taught to clean it.

Remove the barrel from the stock.

Remove the touch hole.

Get a five gallon bucket of the hottest water you could find.

Add some rubbing alcohol to the water.

Put the breach end of the barrel in the bucket of water, and with a tight fitting patch on the cleaning rod, pump the water through the bore until clean.

The barrel heated up pretty good, so couple of dry patches, the an oily one and I was done.

Also liked those Hoppes 'Tornado' brushes, the spiral stainless ones for lapping the bore.

[corvette8n]

I see there is also Collector Liquid, is this stuff any differant from regular CLP?

[sniper]

This is a little belated, but I use and like CLP.:) Specially for my .22s. I haven't had my Ruger autopistol apart for years. Say what you may, I tried many times, could NOT get the damn thing back together.

A friend who is a gunsmith took pity on me, and reassembled it. I now just squirt it out good with Gun Scrubber, or brake cleaner, do the bore and hit it good with CLP, and that's all.

It kept my guns rust free for about 2 years when they were stored in the basement of my brother-in-law's house, about 300 miles away, and not accessible for regular maintenance.

It doesn't take jacket fouling out worth a hoot, tho. For that , I use Wipe-Out.

[edlmann]

The M16 certainly had problems when first introduced, but alot of the problems where caused by the govt. Like to get it issued as fast as possible. The thing there was the troops where trained how to use it of course, but not how to maintain and clean it. Like I said before at first it wasn't issued with a cleaning book or tools. The govt told the soldiers it was a new wonder weapon, didn't need cleaned as often as previous weapons. Well they found out they were wrong, very wrong. So what do they go and do? They come out with CLP.

Naah. First there was LSA; CLP is a generation or two later.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Oops! Forget the chair tips. They're not elastic and undersized like the crutch tips. They're made of some sort of fairly hard plastic or rubber and won't seal. Stick with the crutch tips. Back to Wal-Mart I go.

Maybe if the chair tip was the closest fit to the Bbl available, an automotive hose clamp might make it seal. Just a thought, you wouldn't bother unless nothing else was available to fit.

I sort of remember reading somewhere that Break Free/CLP had the ability to penetrate skin as some mag wheel cleaners were able to do. Is this an old wive's (read old gossipy shooters) tale?

Four Fingers.

[nicholst55]

Maybe if the chair tip was the closest fit to the Bbl available, an automotive hose clamp might make it seal. Just a thought, you wouldn't bother unless nothing else was available to fit.

I sort of remember reading somewhere that Break Free/CLP had the ability to penetrate skin as some mag wheel cleaners were able to do. Is this an old wive's (read old gossipy shooters) tale?

Four Fingers.

I've never heard that one, and I've been using the stuff since it first came out in the late 70s. It does cause a rash on a lot of people, but the Army doesn't even insist on soldiers wearing gloves when using it. As anal as they have become about safety in recent years, that's saying a lot.

You can find the MSDS online if you're concerned.

FWIW, I do wear nitrile gloves when cleaning my guns, regardless of what I'm using. I also wear safety glasses, and recommend the same for everyone.

[Marlin Hunter]

sundog,

..... The M16 certainly had problems when first introduced, but alot of the problems where caused by the govt. Like to get it issued as fast as possible. The thing there was the troops where trained how to use it of course, but not how to maintain and clean it. Like I said before at first it wasn't issued with a cleaning book or tools. The govt told the soldiers it was a new wonder weapon, didn't need cleaned as often as previous weapons. Well they found out they were wrong, very wrong. So what do they go and do? They come out with CLP. ........

Joe


(I know I'm responding to a 4 year old post.)


My understanding about the M-16 problem is that it was caused by calcium in the gun powder. The original method to make powder was to wash off the acid in water. It had to be done several times and was costly and time consuming. Some bright person got the idea to put calcium in the powder instead of washing it in water. The calcium built up in the gas tube and carrier piston. I think I read that in either Guns and Ammo, soldier of Fortune, or American Rifleman.

[Shiloh]

I have a couple of four oz. bottles of CLP. It is good stuff. I hardly use it though. I find that I use Ed's red almost exclusively. The exception is Sweets 7.62, which is used for copper fouling. For the price of a couple of bottles of Breakfree CLP, one can make a gallon of Ed's Red.

Shiloh

[DLCTEX]

I bought some to send to the troops in Afganistan, then found out you can't ship aresol cans, so I'm using it myself.

[dromia]

I use the ammonia straight, without pre-bluing it with copper wire. It turns blue nicely all by itself as it takes the copper out of your bore. Great stuff, and as an added benefit the water in it dissolves corrosive primer residue.


That's what I use patch about with Ed's Red, just don't use any brass or bronze jags or bristle brushes they will get eaten away.

Also as Ed Harris says I've found a good gun oil to be 50/50 paraffin and ATF.

Youngs 303 mixed with water to make Aquoil is good for BP and corrosive primer residue.

I still have a couple of pints of CLP lying around from a half gallon purchase years ago. Its OK stuff that I would use happily but its not worth the price when equal and better performance can be had for a lot less spandoolacs.

[TCLouis]

I have about a gallon and a half I have had for years.
Ed's Red has done everything I need for smokeless with boolit /bullet and water with dish washing detergent takes care of all thing BP based.

[dominicfortune00]

A friend of mine says that the best gun oil he used is Singer Sewing Machine Oil.

[45-70 Plinker]

As a gunsmith I will not use any oil that has Teflon, or any 'plastic' additive in it, Breakfree, Remoil etc., to plate and/or pack up in the sear and other parts. The Teflon gets into the metal and can ruin with your stones which is why engine rebuilders won't take your block if you have used STP or similar stuff with Teflon type additives.
I have that Kroil will clean just about anything out of a barrel. On the outside the best thing I have found is SlipIt. Spray some on a patch and wipe things down. You do not have to worry about your stocks as it was made as a wood lubricant. It will keep a tablesaw rust free for about three months in the garage.