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Jeffery8mm
10-21-2008, 10:37 AM
I am loading a 150gr Lee GC boolit in my 30-30 Win. I use RCBS dies. How would you expand this case mouth. When I try to seat the bullet it binds when you get to the check and you have to give the ram lever a good downward bump to get it to enter the case mouth. Also, the seater plug is hollow on these dies and it cuts the nose of the boolit a bit. Kinda makes a groove aroud the boolit nose. Can you order other seater plugs like come with the RCBS pistol dies.
Thanks for any and all info!!
Jeff

docone31
10-21-2008, 11:05 AM
There are expanding dies for expanding the neck. I use a drill bit. I find one that just fits into the neck, and wobble it a bit. Don't go too far as it works the neck too much.
I also have occasional rings around the boolitt. I just live with it.
You could burnish down the edge with a round burr that is a little larger than the opening diameter.

dromia
10-21-2008, 11:10 AM
For Cast Boolits you need to expand the neck of the cases. Lee make a nifty case expander die that works from .22" to .45", however it just flares the case mouth.

I prefer the Lyman "M" dies that expand the neck, leave a seating step and puts some flare on the case mouth.

Really you need to measure your sized case mouth ID and your sized boolits. Ideally your boolit shouldbe 2 thou over case mouth ID to get good boolit retention with out deformation.

When you have the numbers then you can look for the appropriate solutions.

Regarding the seating stem witness mark on the boolit, if its even all the way round then I wouldn't worry about it too much. If it bothers you then a bit of kitchen aluminium foil pushed into the seater stem will take the shape of the boolit nose and Bob's your uncle as they say.

JDFuchs
10-21-2008, 11:11 AM
I'm still new at this. With half my cast loads to hot (mostly) and having worse patterns then a shotgun. So I'm looking for some help with this as well. Since my plane base bullets when seated in my RCBS dies are doing weird things trying to fit into such a small space. Had a few push down the case neck in a corner.

I cheated and used the flare die I have for my 32H&R. But I'm thinking of getting a lee neck sizer http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=938676 and after the bullet is seated with the decapping rod out size the neck till its snug enough.

docone31
10-21-2008, 11:16 AM
Heh. 20ft groups with my loads was one of the reasons I went to paper patching.
I just had too many issues with small necks, bent boolitts, shaveing, essentially all the issues we all have to overcome.
I just got impatient.
I now roll my own.

dromia
10-21-2008, 11:28 AM
I'm still new at this. With half my cast loads to hot (mostly) and having worse patterns then a shotgun. So I'm looking for some help with this as well. Since my plane base bullets when seated in my RCBS dies are doing weird things trying to fit into such a small space. Had a few push down the case neck in a corner.

I cheated and used the flare die I have for my 32H&R. But I'm thinking of getting a lee neck sizer http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=938676 and after the bullet is seated with the decapping rod out size the neck till its snug enough.


Thats not cheating thats making the most of what you've got. :-D

Using the sizing die is good for taking the flare of the case mouth for chambering, just make sure it just kisses the case sufficiently so as not to size down the boolit, no spring back with lead.

pdawg_shooter
10-21-2008, 11:53 AM
For Cast Boolits you need to expand the neck of the cases. Lee make a nifty case expander die that works from .22" to .45", however it just flares the case mouth.

I prefer the Lyman "M" dies that expand the neck, leave a seating step and puts some flare on the case mouth.

Really you need to measure your sized case mouth ID and your sized boolits. Ideally your boolit shouldbe 2 thou over case mouth ID to get good boolit retention with out deformation.

When you have the numbers then you can look for the appropriate solutions.

Regarding the seating stem witness mark on the boolit, if its even all the way round then I wouldn't worry about it too much. If it bothers you then a bit of kitchen aluminium foil pushed into the seater stem will take the shape of the boolit nose and Bob's your uncle as they say.

+1 on the Lee expander. One set does all!

Echo
10-21-2008, 11:54 AM
+1 for the Lyman M die. Adjust for a small (short) shoulder, seat the bullet, then crimp to turn the shoulder in.

EMC45
10-21-2008, 12:08 PM
I'm with Pdawg. Lee universal expander is the ticket!

dromia
10-21-2008, 12:51 PM
Me I use both, the "M" die is the biscuits for boolit seating and putting that seating step that lines up the boolit concentric in the case, however the flare step on the "M" die is a tad too acute for my taste so I gently flare the case mouth with the Lee expander. If I could only have one then it would be the "M" die and managed with that for years before the Lee job came along.

Of course the secret to these dies working well is case trimming,if your cases aren't the same length and the mouths trimmed square then none of these dies will work well.

Tom W.
10-21-2008, 02:42 PM
I bought an RCBS case neck expander die for my cast boolits. I don't have any shaving now...and the rifles are accurate.

Jeffery8mm
10-21-2008, 04:05 PM
Just got me a Lee universal sizer die ordered from the local gun shop!! You think this may help with the accuracy??
Jeff

dromia
10-22-2008, 12:56 AM
It'll certainly help flare the case mouth and help start the boolit into the case. Regarding accuarcy that really depends on what the problem(?) is, hard to seat boolits can lead to bullet deformation and too much run out all poor accuracy causes.

In boolit seating you want enough boolit retention to give a consistent powder burn whist at the same time not deforming the boolit whilst seating. The boolit also must be seated concentric with the case so that it lines up with the bore, so run out must be minimal. Seating depth is also mportant and has to be in relation to your rifles throat.

All this is dependant upon the boolit fittting the throat so that its fully supported as it enters the rifling to minimise boolit deformation upon firing.

Fun isn't it. :-D

Larry Gibson
10-22-2008, 10:23 AM
Cast bullets can get bent, have lead shaved of the sides, the nose can be swelled or deformed and the bullet itself can be sized down by the case neck when seating them if there isn't a proper flare and there is too much neck tesion.

I use both Lyman M dies and the Lee case mouth flare tool. Both work well with hard cast bullets, especially those with GCs. However the Lyman will work better with softer cast bullets as it also expands the case neck if there is too much neck tension. The Lee tool does not do that. Either may cause problems if there is still too much neck tension and the bullets are of softer alloy. As an example; I use a Lyman .31 M-die in .30/.31 caliber rifles if the bullets are sized over .309" or are PB. The .31 M-die works well up through .314 bullets with GCs. However for bullets sized over .311" I also use Redding Bushing dies to custom size the necks so there is only .002" or so neck tension. The Lee tool then provides a slight flare on these.

Larry Gibson

looseprojectile
10-22-2008, 01:37 PM
A large center punch will work to flare the case neck. Barely discernable amount.
I have had good success with just a healthy chamfer in the case neck.
You have to do what works for you.

Life is good

nvbirdman
10-23-2008, 12:08 AM
With a handle that includes 8mm, I would assume that you load 8mm.
Tap an 8mm bullet nose first slightly into your .30cal case. This will expand the front of the neck enough to start your boolit without shaving lead. This is only a temporary solution. Order an expanding die from Lee or Lyman.

Cherokee
10-23-2008, 09:04 AM
Lyman M dies are my choice and have been for mannnny years.

C A Plater
10-23-2008, 09:19 AM
Chiming in for the M die. A lead slinger's best friend.

MtGun44
10-23-2008, 09:19 PM
If you load a bunch of calibers you're going to spend a lot of $$ on
M dies. One Lee expander does it all.

Bill