Why are the only good Muslims, moderate Muslims?

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

There's a question to contemplate.

Whenever you read or hear some bad news about Muslim extremists blow up yadda-yadda, beheading bla-blah, shooting yakkity-yak - you will soon hear the saw, "There are plenty of moderate Muslims."

This question popped into my head one day and I came to the realization that you judge a belief system by its extremists, not its moderates.

Extremist Marxists = Stalin, Lenin, Mao, etc.

Extremist Muslims = Osama Bin Laden, ISIS

So if you want to know if a belief system is good or not, just examine its extremists and their lives will tell you where that belief system will lead you.

Who are your extremists?

[GARD72977]

Mike Pence........ He looks people in the eye and tells them what he believes. All this without a safe place for millennials to recover.

[Winger Ed.]

The moderates of any group are irrelevant.

They are the ones who do nothing as history is being written---- good or bad.

[Shawlerbrook]

A more important question is why moderate Muslims do not take a more assertive stand against the extremists? Also, are the extremists are small percentage of the entire Muslim population?

[1hole]

Whenever you read or hear some bad news about Muslim extremists blow up yadda-yadda, beheading bla-blah, shooting yakkity-yak - you will soon hear the saw, "There are plenty of moderate Muslims."


Perhaps it would help if we accurately define "moderates" from "radical" Muslims and the easily read teachings of the Koran.

First, civilized people need to understand that Mohommad and his Koran specify that Islam is destined to eventually dominate the world either by conversion or the sword. That means all who are not Muslim are to humble themselves before Muslims AND pay a hefty "tax" for the privilige of being allowed to live ... for a time. Those of us who refuse or cannot pay are to be immediately beheaded. Everyone who pays but refuses conversion to the end are to be murdered after their madi (antichrist) arrives. (Any Muslim who disagrees with that is NOT living by the Koran and are themselves subject to being killed as apostates.)

Thus the only real difference between Islamic "moderates" and "radicals" is a matter of slaughter timing; today's radicals say to kill us now and the moderates say it's still too early. But they all expect to eventually kill us so I find little comfort in the difference.

Those who say peaceful Islamic "moderates" are harmless are fools.

[Hickory]

The bad Muslims (48%) want to kill you, the good Muslims won't kill you but think its alright if the bad Muslims kill you.

[jmort]

:coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::popcorn:: popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[Outpost75]

A number of influences lead toward jihad, a term which is used incorrectly in the west today as a PC disinformation term used to avoid implying that jihad is actually part and parcel of Islam. Jihad is better translated as Holy War, and was the instrument which allowed Mohammed to create his empire.

Becoming a warrior of the faithful (a Jihadi) is influenced by family and tribal religious practice (how closely they follow the Quran), by the skill and influence of their Mullah, Imam and Sheiks (sifted through their individual personalities). If they are “hellfire and brimstone” teachers of the Quran and the Hadith, and if a young man is from a judgmental family (particularly if it is well off, there is then a duty to act for the community as a payback for Allah’s giving of success to them). They are then on their way to becoming a Defender of the Faith(ful).

The Quran is considered to be divinely inspired and to be perfect in all respects. Criticism or challenge of it is not allowed and can lead to unpleasant demise in a community ruled by Sharia. The Quran basically proscribes engaging in holy war against any and all nonbelievers. In Moslem communities education is traditionally only for males; in poorer communities often the only literate person is the Mullah. No one else in the village has the ability to garner information which might question the Mullah’s interpretation of the Quran, or of world events or whatever.

Westerners have been brainwashed and lied to about Islam for years. Jihad is normal, being part and parcel of practicing Islam properly. ISIS followed a strict interpretation of the Quran; anybody in village they captured who was known to not pray five times a day was executed. Practiced as written, there is only one Islam, and no such thing as moderate Islam. Traditionally, to avoid internal challenges to a regime, young men are encouraged to wage Jihad somewhere else, and money is sent out of the country to pay for the training, weapons and indoctrination of the warriors.

We haven’t seen much rebellion in Saudi, correct? This is because the Saudis follow the old formula - bin Laden was a perfect example. Nonbelievers are considered subhuman, so it is permissible to kill them in any way desired.

Arab nations tend to have a vulnerable military organization because, unlike in the US military, where lower ranks are prepared and expected to move up in role, should they lose their leaders, in today's Arab armies, junior officers in particular, are reluctant to share technical knowledge with their subordinates because they regard that knowledge as the means by which they hold their sinecures.

A classmate shared a story from his stint in Egypt, where he was an engineer sent to help the Egyptians gear up to produce their down-armored version of the M1 Abrams tank. One day he ventured into the manufacturing area and saw a barefoot worker up on a steel beam, painting it with "red lead," to prevent rusting. He sought out the man's supervisor to point out the breach in safety protocols, particularly the lack of a safety harness. A while later, he returned to the scene and found the man working as before except that this time, he had a roped tied around his waist, dangling toward the ground. Inshallah.

Mohammedans have a different culture which is remarkably consistent and driven by the In sha Allah (if God Wills it) attitude. This arises from environmental contextual issues of their God providing everything from sustenance, shelter, wives, and victory or defeat in battle. They entirely surrender the idea of individual agency. This attitude permeates every aspect of life. It’s evident in the more unsavory aspects of treating women and children as chattel, and their obsession with pederasty.

I don’t agree with or attempt to understand this culture because it’s anathema to my own. I read an English translation of Koran and Hadith in effort to learn behavioral foundations as a predictive tool for when dealing with GREEN “coalition” troops, and predicting red “Opfor” action. I suspect much is lost in translation. With the above caveat about culture, I offer useful collective generalizations.

1. Most Moslem people tend to avoid direct conflict, verbal or otherwise. They won’t say NO directly, rather in sha Allah. They don’t fight unless it’s in raid or ambush. They won’t stand ground in the face of superior fires. That doesn’t mean they won’t fight well or bravely; it just means they use deception very well to gain tactical advantage in war, business, or social interaction.

2. Their women will do whatever is required to protect and feed their kids. Sometimes those things are horrifying to western men.

3. Unmarried military aged males are easily influenced and prone to violence. Involuntary celibacy probably has a lot to do with that because it is a big cultural issue for them. Young men go to great lengths to gain honorable distinction and income to pay the bride price (even if it’s only for the temporary Mohammedan marriage that we in the West call prostitution). So tribal and religious leaders can mobilize young men fairly easily; offering limited options for fulfillment of a young man’s deepest desires.

The Distilled assessment.

1. Mohammedan culture is very different. Mirror image analysis will fail every time. Predict their behavior by using their cultural heuristics, of which honor falls behind only food, shelter, and sex in Their hierarchy.

2. They fight differently. Deception is a strength used to gain tactical advantage and seize initiative. Lying to anyone outside the tribe is NOT a sin, but a desirable character trait. Ambush isn’t cowardly, it’s smart.

3. They don’t take personal responsibility at all. It’s In sha Allah, or the fault of the thing or third party. The truck ran over a child because the truck was defective, or it was God’s will, or both; never because the driver erred. This bleeds into the martyrdom idea. If one dies in jihad (holy war against the infidel or apostate), there is a reward in heaven for serving Allah faithfully unto death. This is foundational. The suicide bomber gains this reward and renown, while his parents reap some financial compensation and fame as the equivalent of a Gold Star parent.

Mohammedan culture is completely incompatible with classical western culture that values the individual and achievement. But, it’s not at all incompatible with the range of collectivist statism philosophies (Marxism, Maoism, Democratic Socialism), which explains the current nexus of politics in some states like Michigan or mega cities like London.

For anyone interested in learning more about Islam without a pc lens interfering, there used to be a site titled religionofpeace.com which explained, among other things, how the Quran justifies everything from lying to murder by believers when dealing with non believers. You will probably have trouble finding it, because recently there've been many attempts to take it down. After recent events in NZ, it will certainly be called a site of intolerance and racism. A true believer regards any information contrary to their belief in the Quran as a divine document as blasphemous and deserving of the death of the blasphemer. Another site of value is the glazov gang, hosted by Jamie Glazov and which deals with Iran and Shia Islam. His broadcasts are still on You Tube.

Re suicide bombers. Under Islam, no one goes to paradise (heaven) until judgment day, except for those killed in holy war, the definition of which is quite loose. People who are poor are over represented in the ranks of bombers (as there is financial incentive in the form of payment to the bombers family). Young men in poor families cannot buy wives (if you have resources, you are allowed up to four - this makes the availability of young women effectively zero). So these young men are a drain on the resources of the family and tribe, with only homosexuality, beastiality or pederasty for sexual outlet, no way to make a steady living and little hope of change.
Desperation is easily manipulated by the Mullah. BTW, well off Moslems do not desire a lower class with education or opportunity. Neither does the religious hierarchy.

With the power of social media we can expect suicide bombers recruited in the west, who appear to be kids who couldn’t find their way in the world, and adopting strong Islamic beliefs (which blame the west for all of the kids problems) gives them a more powerful, purposeful sense of self than they’ve heretofore had. ISIS used mentally retarded people (of all ages and both genders) to wear the vests; I suspect that drugs are commonly used to get some of them to put on “the last suit they’ll ever wear”.

[fiberoptik]

“Good” muslims don’t want to rock the boat [emoji2174]. They are afraid of the radical ones coming after them if they speak out against radicals. One radical shows up and the rest all fall inline just to save their own skins. Like the movies always show store owners paying “protection” $$. Wolves aren’t afraid of sheep.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Walks]

Met a Man almost 40yrs ago. He and his Family fled Iran after Khomeini follower's overthrew the Legal Ruler; the Shah.
He told me all the wealthy and middle class that could, fled before the Iman's and their filthy followers killed them in their sleep.

Fortunately his Father was prepared as soon as the that religious fanatic returned. They rented a private plane and fled with their Families and money and all the personal belongings that would fit.

The American CIA told the Shah that Khomeini would not cause problems.

We all know now they were wrong. And all of the United States and Western Europe have paid for it ever since. And we continue to pay for it.

As it goes worse and worse. They exploit the West's Freedoms to use against us.
And the Liberals are helping them.

I honestly believe we should send those Liberals into the mohammadens enclaves they have allowed to exist and grow in their own countries, at their personal expense. And find out what these people are really like.

Moderate Muslims? Those are the ones that beg for asylum and handouts.

And after lying to get them they turn around and claim they are being oppressed in the Free Western Nations that offer Sanctuary to these poor "refugees".

And yet every other "refugee" is a single unattached male between 20yrs - 40yrs. Fighting age.

I hate auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

[nicholst55]

I do believe Outpost75 nailed it. I'd enjoy sharing an adult beverage with him someday, and discuss some of the things we've seen and done.

[JSnover]

Since the Muslim conquest has gone global, maybe it's now a question of which faction will remain after the ashes have cooled? The "extremist" muslims believe they're behaving as Allah would wish - that the "moderates" are corrupting the religion.
The extremists named in post #1 were actually Good Socialists and Good Muslims. They knew what it was all about and didn't waste any time or shed any tears getting to the point.

[Winger Ed.]

The bad Muslims (48%) want to kill you, the good Muslims won't kill you but think its alright if the bad Muslims kill you.


On his radio show, Mark Levin occasionally says, the good Muslims will hold your legs while the bad Muslims cut your head off.

[Outpost75]

I do believe Outpost75 nailed it. I'd enjoy sharing an adult beverage with him someday, and discuss some of the things we've seen and done.

When you return CONUS if you get up to Carlisle or DC we can make that happen.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Good post Outpost75.

[wv109323]

The Muslims have no hope in their religion except through Jihad. Unless a Muslim dies in Jihad it will be determined by Mohammend when they die if they go to heaven. In the Christian religion, eternal life is promised in this lifetime.
The extremist are "by the book" Muslims where the infadel must die if he does not convert to Islam. Killing the infadel is the "right" thing to do. Any land once occupied by Muslims throughout history is to be conquired and under Mohammend control. That is the major problem in Israel today over land.
Under Muslim belief, success is a sign of Mohammend's approval. Thus when the terrorists were sucessful on 9-11-2001 when they attacked America that was a green light for the Muslims. Thus we saw the increase in Isis,al-Queda and other terrorist groups. When we whipped the pants off them it was time to retreat back into everyday life.
As stated before a Muslim is permitted and encouraged to do anything to help Mohamed. Thus they will be a snake in the grass until they can strike unwarned. Thus a terror cell is unnoticed until they carry out an attack.
A Muslim will befriend you to make you think they are moderate but will turn to true colors if they have a chance.
These ideas are pounded into their heads from childhood.
There are good people from the Arab countries but beware of any that was brought up as a Muslim. This is not meant to be hateful but just informative.

[RED BEAR]

I for one don't believe there are any moderate muslims. I still remember after 9/11 the dancing in the streets all over the muslim world. I think we should have made a black spot in the desert and came home Afghanistan was won in 3 weeks we should have come home. Rebuild my behind we owe them nothing. If they get belligerent again you make a bigger black spot. Islam is not a peaceful religion at all.

[M-Tecs]

"MUSLIMS CANNOT BE GOOD AMERICANS
Can a good Muslim be a good American?
This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years. The following is his reply:
Theologically - NO. Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon god of Arabia.
Religiously - NO. Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam. (Quran,2:256)(Koran)
Scripturally - NO. Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.
Geographically - NO. Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.
Socially - NO. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.
Politically - NO. Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.
Domestically - NO. Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him. (Quran 4:34 )
Intellectually - NO. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.
Philosophically - NO. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religion and expression.
Spiritually - NO. Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' The Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.
DEMOCRACY AND ISLAM CANNOT CO-EXIST. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.
Therefore, after much study and deliberation... Perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and 'good' Americans. Call it what you wish it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future.
The religious war is bigger than we know or understand!
Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within.
SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.
THIS MESSAGE NEEDS TO ROLL ALL OVER THE U.S
Qur’an:9:88 – “The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah’s Cause.”
Qur’an:9:5 - “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
Qur’an:9:112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”
Qur’an:9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”
Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”
Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”
Ishaq:587 “Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace.”
Qur’an:8:65 “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.”
Qur’an:9:123 “Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.”
Ishaq:578 “Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophet’s fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the Prophet gained victory.”

[nicholst55]

When you return CONUS if you get up to Carlisle or DC we can make that happen.

I'll take you up on that, eventually. I should be in the Baltimore area this winter for a couple of weeks.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within.

I see you are from MN, represented by Ilahn Omar. (not that I blame you, but that it supports your footnote)

This is something that I believe is a key to solving the Muslim riddle. We can make a black spot out of Afghanistan all we want, but we're just kicking the problem down the road for our children to solve.

Islam must be confronted on its philosophical grounds. During the Cold War, there was an American bishop who hosted a television show that actually was very popular. On many of his programs he would expose the lies of the Communist Party, and thus serve to educate Americans. His name was Bishop Fulton Sheen.

We also had a Russian defector named Solzhenitsyn who wrote Gulag Archipelago further exposing Communism for its horrors.

[M-Tecs]

240543

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

M-Tecs, nice post but it is too anonymous. We don't know who said it, or who the muslim guy being interviewed is. No way to check if a muslim really said this.

[fivegunner]

From my own research I agree with OUTPOST 75, He nailed it

[dtknowles]

So what to do about it. The constitution prohibits discrimination based on Religion or Politics.

Tim

[1hole]

So what to do about it. The constitution prohibits discrimination based on Religion or Politics.

Tim

The Constitution is not a mutual suicide pact requiring us to close our eyes to a group of transparent subversives. It's written for U.S. citizens and immigrants who wish to meld in, follow our laws and live as American citizens. With very rare exceptions, that does NOT include Muslims.

The issue isn't Muslim's "religion", as such, but we had better believe Islam IS a religion of death to anyone who disagrees with their specific Islamic splinter group. (Note if they can't murder us they're quite comfortable slaughtering each other; Sunni vs. Shiites, etc.) Only fools (Democrats?) will open their arms to pit vipers.

I say, "Our Constitution doesn't apply to interlopers, ship them back to their Shiite hole countries and watch our crime and welfare rates fall."

[M-Tecs]

M-Tecs, nice post but it is too anonymous. We don't know who said it, or who the muslim guy being interviewed is. No way to check if a muslim really said this.

In college in the early 80's I have some Arab friends that fled Iran. They basically stated the same thing and they laid out how Europe the the US would fall to Islam. So far their predictions have been spot on.

Here's one with a name and address for anyone that wants to contact them.


240637

[6bg6ga]

I'll sum it up. There is no Good Muslim.

[augercreek]

Most of the populace is blind to the threat that Islam presents. They want to be all inclusive loving all forms of people ! Look what's happened to all the main stream denominations. LGBT's have gotten into positions of leadership in our church's and education systems and now we reap the rewards of it. Just look at all the protest march's the rainbows and the pink hat's come out in droves and that's what the media want's us to see! Now we have all kinds of splinter group's going their own way's and when we are divided we have no common goal or ground to stand on ! United we stand divided we fall !!!!

[UKShootist]

Hmmmm.... 'good' v 'bad' Muslims? Try tis for a comparison, although it may nt go down too well in some places in the USA.

When the Irish 'troubles' were at their peak, the media would follow every bombing outrage with statements from politicians that the vast majority of Irish people did not in any way support the IRA who were but a tiny minority. Every so often one of these murdering terrorist scum was killed by whoever and there would be a funeral. On the day of that funeral, in the town where it was held, streets were packed shoulder to shoulder with thousands of people who, we must assume, did not support the IRA. Coincidence?

[6bg6ga]

Hmmmm.... 'good' v 'bad' Muslims? Try tis for a comparison, although it may nt go down too well in some places in the USA.

When the Irish 'troubles' were at their peak, the media would follow every bombing outrage with statements from politicians that the vast majority of Irish people did not in any way support the IRA who were but a tiny minority. Every so often one of these murdering terrorist scum was killed by whoever and there would be a funeral. On the day of that funeral, in the town where it was held, streets were packed shoulder to shoulder with thousands of people who, we must assume, did not support the IRA. Coincidence?

There is a vast difference between the "Irish Troubles" and these Muslims (My opinion here) I don't think the Irish were responsible for 911 and countless gutless attacks on innocent people.

[UKShootist]

There is a vast difference between the "Irish Troubles" and these Muslims (My opinion here) I don't think the Irish were responsible for 911 and countless gutless attacks on innocent people.

The IRA certainly were responsible for a very large number of gutless attacks on innocent people. They certainly were beaten on the count by Islam. What I was illustrating is the commonly held fallacy that terrorists and extremists have no significant support among the general population. Vast numbers of the Irish silently supported the murderers of their choice while publicly regretting what had happened. The same seems likely among the adherents of Islam.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

UK, I don't know if people in the US will disagree with your comparison, or if, like me, will be too ignorantof what it was all about. It all seemed to be going down atva time when I wasn't very concerned about global politics. Now I like to read a bit from a former Irish skinhead, who converted -- Joseph Pearce.

P.S. what does the avatar mean? Looks like arabic script.

[1hole]

The problems with the Irish isn't religion, as such. The problem is the Protestants are English and the Catholics are Irish; the key words are English and Irish, not their religion.

The English (William of Orange) invaded northern Ireland in the 1700s (IIRC) and took control, kicking the native population off their farms and businesses leaving the common people homeless, starving and destitute in their own land. The English passed laws and hired law enforcement to protect themselves and to keep the Irish on their knees; little wonder the Irish remain outraged.

History books give dry accounts of the facts of how it began and, to a somewhat reduced level, still applies. Fact is, Negro slaves in America had a much better and comfortable life than those poor people unfortunate enough to be under the repressive thumb of the English. Anyone wanting to actually understand should go to a library and find a copy of Leon Uris' book, "Trinity".

Unlike Northern Ireland, the Muslim problems ARE religion based and there will be no real peace on earth as long as even two of them still live. And there is NO WAY we, the rest of the world, can ever be safe if even one Muslim who actually believes his satanic religion is still alive.

Come quickly Lord Jesus.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Of course there are going to be differences between the IRA and ISIS. But U.K. brings up a similarity which should be noted.

The next point would be to move from there to noting that Ireland seems reasonably peaceful now. So what happened and how did things manage to settle down? Perhaps a lesson learned in some other sector of history can be applied to current problems.

[UKShootist]

M-Tecs, nice post but it is too anonymous. We don't know who said it, or who the muslim guy being interviewed is. No way to check if a muslim really said this.

Try this then.


Speaking at Kanal D TV's Arena program, Turkey's Prime Minister Erdogan commented on the term "Moderate Islam", often used in the West to describe AKP and said, "These descriptions are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it."
Source: Milliyet, Turkey, August 21, 2007

[UKShootist]

P.S. what does the avatar mean? Looks like arabic script.

"Infidel"

[UKShootist]

The problems with the Irish isn't religion, as such. The problem is the Protestants are English and the Catholics are Irish; the key words are English and Irish, not their religion.

The English (William of Orange) invaded northern Ireland in the 1700s (IIRC) and took control, kicking the native population off their farms and businesses leaving the common people homeless, starving and destitute in their own land. The English passed laws and hired law enforcement to protect themselves and to keep the Irish on their knees; little wonder the Irish remain outraged.

History books give dry accounts of the facts of how it began and, to a somewhat reduced level, still applies. Fact is, Negro slaves in America had a much better and comfortable life than those poor people unfortunate enough to be under the repressive thumb of the English. Anyone wanting to actually understand should go to a library and find a copy of Leon Uris' book, "Trinity".


Thank you so much for illustrating the exact problem existing in the island of Ireland. The history of 300 years ago is as irrelevant as the wholesale genocide of the "Native Americans" by the white majority of the time is today. A historical situation to be known and understood while being irrelevant to today other than as a tool of learning human behaviour. My point is that people who are the 'peaceful majority' of any cause or society, beloved of politicians when addressing the issues, will deny extremism while silently supporting the extremists of their choice, praising them with faint ****s and in the case I mentioned, turning out in the many thousands to show support for the murderers of women and children at their funerals.

BTW, go into any Protestant pub in N.I. and tell people there that they are English is likely to result in a smack in the mouth.

[Arkansas Paul]

The problem with moderate muslims is that there is no theological basis for their views.
The problem isn't islamic fundamentalists. The problem is the fundamentals of islam.

[UKShootist]

The problem with moderate muslims is that there is no theological basis for their views.
The problem isn't islamic fundamentalists. The problem is the fundamentals of islam.

True!

[yeahbub]

Thank you, Outpost75 and M-Tecs for letting experience and learning speak. Quite right about checking the pedigree of one's information and not just swallowing what may be coming via PC filtration. There are many who are apt to hurriedly accept soothing interpretations of what they see around them, lest they look too closely and discover the monstrous truth that's been lurking within reach which their diligent avoidance will not answer. I agree there are no "moderate" Muslims. There are fundamentalist Muslims and cultural Muslims, like there are serious and cultural Christians, and their adherence to Islamic doctrine is all over the map, from total obedience to can't-be-bothered-with-it, but all who identify as Muslim have at least a claimed loyalty to a hostile, dictatorial and wholly intolerant political system bent on the destruction of all that is not itself - and some of itself as well, because any system whose identity comes from being at war must have enemies and there will always be those who aren't Muslim enough, always some reason to label some group/village/idea/faction as apostates and slaughter them all.

The commentary on the near-total lack of taking personal responsibility for one's behavior are interesting. It was told to me that a couple of American oilfield engineers were on their way to an outlying facility in the middle east some years ago, and they had with them an old Arab man. On the way, their vehicle sputtered and quit and they got to work trying to determine what the problem was and whether they could effect repairs. Both of the Americans were under the hood when one had an idea. He stepped around the vehicle just in time to see the Arab attempting to look into the gas tank with a lighter for illumination. He stopped the man and wanted to know what would induce him to try something with such predictably disastrous results. The man said that no, nothing would have happened unless it was the will of Allah and he trusted that it was not, hence, no explosion/fire/grievous injury/death would take place. Truly, people from the "west" find Islamic thinking virtually incomprehensible, but it does have a certain absurd "logic" which they've used to conquer cultures for centuries who had no idea what they were up against. Accurate knowledge and clear analysis trumps ignorance every time.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

"Infidel"

As in; you are an infidel? I likey!

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

The problem with moderate muslims is that there is no theological basis for their views.
The problem isn't islamic fundamentalists. The problem is the fundamentals of islam.

Yes! This is the answer to the title-question. And this is why I've concluded that you can judge a religion based on its extremists. Religious extremists expose the religion for what it is.

What is needed is for political and church leaders to point this out. Challenge the Islamic world that their entire belief system is flawed, and inferior.

[M-Tecs]

Good read here

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/03/19/pew-poll-analysis-a-billion-muslims-want-sharia-law-2/?fbclid=IwAR11WbKpKafpRqOG0ozz6aZ-guFvEXHDuKr_GAnWqmOeDygNrcGtoV-iFBI


https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

[Outpost75]

...My point is that people who are the 'peaceful majority' of any cause or society, beloved of politicians when addressing the issues, will deny extremism while silently supporting the extremists of their choice, praising them with faint ****s and in the case I mentioned, turning out in the many thousands to show support for the murderers of women and children at their funerals.

BTW, go into any Protestant pub in N.I. and tell people there that they are English is likely to result in a smack in the mouth.

Exactly!

And the same goes if you visit any pub in South Boston, MA (USA), or Pug Uglies on Third Ave. in the 20s in NYC. One of the GREAT American "cop" bars.

If you wore the badge and are visiting from across the pond, bring one of your unit's cap badges or brassards which if they don't already have, they will gladly to pour you a pint of Harp or Guinness on the house and let you graze on the munchies.

[EDG]

As long as Muslims practice adherence to the fundamentals of islam there is little to no chance of peace between them and any non-believers. Unless Muslims abandon their faith there is going to be no change and no change mean constant war with the rest of the planet with extermination of one side or the other the end result. When their place in eternity is on the line they will never compromise.

[M-Tecs]

I am about as far from a Theological Scholar as you can get but some general observations. Most if not all the worlds major religions have gone through some type of reformation. The Quran punishes any attempts at reformation with death.

http://www.islamhelpline.net/answer/1193/no-one-can-change-the-quran

No one can change the Quran
In the name of Allah, We praise Him, seek His help and ask for His forgiveness. Whoever Allah guides none can misguide, and who-ever He allows to fall astray, none can guide them aright. We bear witness that there is no one (no idol, no person, no grave, no prophet, no imam, no dai, nobody!) worthy of worship but Allah Alone, and we bear witness that Muhammad (saws) is His slave-servant and the seal of His Messengers.

The Truth of the matter is that the Quran cannot be changed or altered, because Allah Himself has taken it upon Himself to preserve this Glorious Book. Not only the Bohra leadership, but even the most ardent enemies of Allah have tried since time to change, edit and even destroy these words of wisdom from Allah. And each one of them failed miserably!

[fiberoptik]

Here’s a good Muzlim:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190503/dc7a17dafc1d0328059ab542f099e129.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dtknowles]

As long as Muslims practice adherence to the fundamentals of islam there is little to no chance of peace between them and any non-believers. Unless Muslims abandon their faith there is going to be no change and no change mean constant war with the rest of the planet with extermination of one side or the other the end result. When their place in eternity is on the line they will never compromise.

As long as Protestants practice adherence to the fundamentals of Christianity there is little to no chance of peace between them and any non-believers. Unless Christians abandon their faith there is going to be no change and no change means constant war with the rest of the planet with extermination of one side or the other the end result. When their place in eternity is on the line they will never compromise.

Tim

[sparky45]

Stupid is as Stupid does.

[M-Tecs]

As long as Protestants practice adherence to the fundamentals of Christianity there is little to no chance of peace between them and any non-believers. Unless Christians abandon their faith there is going to be no change and no change means constant war with the rest of the planet with extermination of one side or the other the end result. When their place in eternity is on the line they will never compromise.

Tim

Please provide a list of Protestant acts of terror so we can compare it against the very long list of Muslim acts of Terror??????????

During the last 30 days there were 105 Islamic attacks in 21 countries, in which 730 people were killed and 1217 injured.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30

FBI uncovers homegrown terror training camp in Alabama

https://abcnews4.com/news/nation-world/fbi-uncovers-homegrown-terror-training-camp-in-alabama?fbclid=IwAR3Ae-Ia4JXYDKA6RaA5nyTnj_H__XuuhPYYIx5UWCbevy8Stsq6gBq1 w-M

How about we go back to the beginning?

https://israelislamandendtimes.com/muslims-massacred-669-million-non-muslims-since-622ad/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork&fbclid=IwAR1lFBiRm5J4s-Yw2XEmqj6UN8xAw417q3ZmQzyHPbyGddpNZiaZeLHp9kI

What have you got to back up your claim????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????

[JM7.7x58]

I don't live in another country. I care about stopping terrorism in the United States, first and foremost. The report below shows the numbers here in the United States, by group. We as a society need to figure out how to stop BOTH these homegrown groups (far right violent extremists and radical Islamist) from committing these horrible acts.

United States Government Accountability Office Report:
COUNTERING VIOLENT EXTREMISM
Actions Needed to Define Strategy and Assess Progress of Federal Efforts

Quote from page 1,
"According to the U.S. Extremist Crime Database (ECDB), since the September 11 attacks, 85 attacks in the United States by violent extremists—associated with both radical Islamist and far right ideologies—have resulted in 225 fatalities."

Quote from page 3,
"Of these, 106 were killed by far right violent extremists in 62 separate incidents, and 119 were victims of radical Islamist violent extremists in 23 separate incidents."

Read Appendix ll on Page 28, it lists all of them from September 12, 2001 through December 31, 2016.

Link to the report: https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/683984.pdf

JM

[M-Tecs]

Wow that report is the best example of junk science I have seen in awhile. Notice anything odd here? Specifically where are hate/terror crimes commented by minorities against whites for purely racial motivations. If they refuse to list the other ideologically inspired domestic violent extremist is it an accurate refection of what is really happening? Same for starting on Sept 12, 2001??? A little biased by ignoring 3,000 deaths on Sept 11, 2001????? This would be funny if it wasn't dealing with very really issue in a very dishonest method.

White supremacists, anti-government extremists, radical Islamist extremists, and other ideologically inspired domestic violent extremists have been active in the United States for decades. Examples of attacks include the 1993 World Trade Center bombing by radical Islamists, in which 6 persons were killed; and the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah federal building by anti-government far right individuals, in which 168 lives were lost. The September 11, 2001, attacks account for the largest number of fatalities in the United States in a single or closelyrelated attack resulting from violent extremism in recent decades. While the September 11, 2001, attacks were perpetrated by foreign violent extremists, from September 12, 2001 through December 31, 2016, attacks by domestic or “homegrown” violent extremists in the United States resulted in 225 fatalities, according to the ECDB. Of these, 106 were killed by far right violent extremists in 62 separate incidents, and 119 were victims of radical Islamist violent extremists in 23 separate incidents. Figure 1 shows the locations and number of fatalities involved in these incidents. A detailed list of the incidents can be found in appendix II. According to the ECDB, activities of far left wing violent extremist groups did not result in any fatalities during this period. They did not look very hard.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2017/08/21/which-ideology-has-inspired-the-most-murders-in-terrorist-attacks-on-u-s-soil/#62b8c7931e74

Terrorists murdered 3,342 people on U.S. soil from 1992 through August 12, 2017. Islamist terrorists are responsible for 92% of all those murders. The 9/11 attacks, by themselves, killed about 89% of all the victims during this time. During this time, the chance of being murdered in a terrorist attack committed by an Islamist was about 1 in 2.5 million per year.
Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists are the second deadliest group by ideology, as they account for 6.6% of all terrorist murders during this time. The 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, the second deadliest terrorist attack in U.S. history, killed 168 people and accounted for 77% of all the murders committed by Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists. The chance of being murdered in a Nationalist or Right Wing terrorist attack was about 1 in 33 million per year.

[JM7.7x58]

Statistics can be twisted all day long. They were all murdered. Hate killed them all.

One group killed more, One group killed less. No argument here.

My wife's cousin has been to weddings at the synagogue in Poway, California. That is where the young radicalized man committed one of the the most recent terrorist attacks. The shooter was raised in the Church, radicalized by the internet.

He was wrong.

He killed 60-year-old Lori Gilbert-Kaye, she used her body to shield her rabbi. She saved his life.

She was right.

He was wrong.

Hate begets hate. Retribution begets retribution. Jesus said in Matthew 5:39 "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy rightcheek, turn to him the other also."

JM

[1644]

Muslims living in their own country or a new country still believe they have to watch their a... If they step out of line in their country they may loose their head. But, not in the United States. they can trash America, and nothing will happen to them, and they know it.
Watch your news and you can see what I mean.......................USA

[1hole]

Unless Christians abandon their faith there is going to be no change and no change means constant war with the rest of the planet with extermination of one side or the other the end result. When their place in eternity is on the line they will never compromise. Tim

Wrong. So obviously wrong it's astonishing you would say it.

Unlike Islam, we know our place in eternity is dependant on the one we trust, not who we kill.

In no place on earth are people being killed in the name of Jesus. Our Book says to treat all others with kindness and to hate no one; it's in our Book. No one is more offended than we when it happens and we mourn for those who are wrongly injured no matter who they are.

The Koran is driven by hate and runs knee deep in blood. They ARE told to kill ALL others, even those in other Islamic splinter groups; it's clearly written in their "holy" book. TV news show that THEY joyfully have street celibrations over the wrongful deaths of innocents and praise the killers as Allah's heros!

Baptists don't kill Methodists, neither kill Catholics, and none kill atheists. It's clear that blood Muslims don't discriminate, they kill each other as joyfully as others.
As Americans, WE all know, or should know this, it's often presented on TV news.

It's dumm to see the truth and still cling to PC revisionist history. Truth is, there will be no real peace on earth until everyone else is dead and there is only one Muslim left standing. But YOU have no fear of being killed by Christians because we re no threat to you or your family.

[dtknowles]

Clearly here many hate Muslims. Maybe you won't try to kill them but the U.S. kills hundreds of thousands of Muslims.

Christian Evangelicals are trying to convert everyone to Christianity. There is a war going on with Muslims and Christians fighting each other for control of the world. Is a drone attack by the U.S. government not a terrorist attack, government sponsored terrorism of the kind we accuse Iran.

Tim

[jmort]

I Heart Muslims
I Heart Muslim Sympathizers
Yes, the bad terrorist U.S. and Christians are very bad people and entirely at fault.

[JBinMN]

Clearly here many hate Muslims. Maybe you won't try to kill them but the U.S. kills hundreds of thousands of Muslims.

Christian Evangelicals are trying to convert everyone to Christianity. There is a war going on with Muslims and Christians fighting each other for control of the world. Is a drone attack by the U.S. government not a terrorist attack, government sponsored terrorism of the kind we accuse Iran.

Tim

I do not think that the word & meaning of , "hate", the way it seems to be implied in your post is proper. I think most Christians do not "hate" mohammedans, but perhaps, "hate" their mostly violent actions in regards to others who are not of the mohammedan ideology. The mohammedan ideology tells them that anyone who is not a mohammedan is not a human being , but "chattel" or "property" like cattle, goats, etc., and have no significance until they convert to mohammedanism.
( BTW - I do not think mohammedanism is a "religion, but a political ideology disguised as a religion, more of a "political "cult".)

So, it is more likely that most here are not "hating" the mohammedans themselves, but perhaps the concepts & teachings of mohammedanism, as well as the actions that some of them have performed due to those concepts & teachings creates the problem.

I think perhaps you ought to use a different term to describe what you think others are doing other than, "hate", to describe what you think "Christians" feel about mohammedans. Maybe, "disapprove of the violent behavior(s)" would be a better choice. Something along those lines.. Do as it suits ya though. I am just adding an opinion of how I interpreted what ya wrote.

As far as the 2nd paragraph about Christian Evangelicals, if the info I just looked at is correct, there are approx. 550 million ( 0.55 Billion) C. E. s in the world. the info I just looked at shows that there is approx. 180 million ( 1.8 Billion) mohammedans in the world.
that is 0.55 Billion to 1.8 BILLION, or , 0.55 - 1.8. Meaning there are 3+ times more mohammedans that C.E.s around the world. That is a significant difference in numbers.

Even if one adds in Catholics or any other type of Christian faith to the number of C.E.s, since all Christians are asked to "soldier" to bring converts to Christianity into the faith, one would likely still fall short of the 1.8 Billion mohammedans.

Now, when one looks at the numbers of violence committed by C.E.'s, or C.Es + the rest of Christian followers & compares them to the mohammedans followers, there is a substantial difference between the two. ( Even more than the comparison of the numbers of each around the world. The mohammedans far outnumber those non believers killed over time vs. those killed by any Christians.)

Lastly, I would remind you that, although it has been mentioned before, that the Christian mentality towards those with others beliefs is not to condemn &/or kill/use violence those who would not be Christians, due to their not accepting Christ as their savior, but instead to try to convince them to join in the faith thru good acts.

On the other hand, those who follow mohammedanism have the mentality that those who practice other beliefs should be condemned for not joining in the following of mohammedan teachings, and be punished in some case with taxation for the tolerance of their non beliefs, called, "Jizya", and those who are taxed are tolerated to a point, but have little to no equality to other mohammedans in any way, or, the non believer/other faith believer is Killed without remorse & even to the extent of praise & salutation for doing so as that is the way "they" are taught.

Now, if you are trying to compare the two, mohammedans & C.Es, etc. for dominance in the world, you have a "way" different outlook than most of the folks I know who call themselves Christians. Not only are you trying to use what "you" consider Christianity to criticize others, including other Christians, but are accepting the deeds of the mohammedans as just a part of a war, where the mohammedans capture/torment/kill & other acts of violence towards any other faiths including Christians, to the act of Christians who are involved in trying to stop the mohammedans from doing violence.

I would imagine if the mohammedans stopped using violence against others, that the violence in retaliation would also stop.( < please note that word, "retaliation & either look up & understand the meaning if you are not knowing it, or try to consider its use in the differences between Christians & mohammedans behaviors to one another like in your examples of using drones.)

I do not think any Christians are targeting mohammedans simply to convert them, but only trying to target the mohammedans who are using violence against non believers. While the mohammedans being targeted are trying to do violence to any who do not believe in their violent ways...

Just something for you to consider, if you have not. I am really not trying to convince you to change your mind, but am offering another viewpoint(opinion) for you to compare to yours & see what YOU decide to think.
:)

G'Luck!
:)

ETA - The numbers I used for the two groups "populations around the world are just quick ones I grabbed to use. I am not saying they are entirely accurate or inaccurate, but they seemed to be within the realm of likelihood. Without more research, I can only use what I found in a short search. Others are welcome to do more research to correct the numbers used if they so desire to use their time that way. ;)

[Thundarstick]

So why is is the discussion of a political ideology veiled in a religion been allowed to remain in theology, and not been moved to the PIT?

[dtknowles]

……..Now, when one looks at the numbers of violence committed by C.E.'s, or C.Es + the rest of Christian followers & compares them to the mohammedans followers, there is a substantial difference between
Just something for you to consider, if you have not. I am really not trying to convince you to change your mind, but am offering another viewpoint(opinion) for you to compare to yours & see what YOU decide to think.
:)


I agree that Islam is way worse than Christianity but Christians have killed way more Muslims that Muslim have kill Christians. The Oppression of Islam is horrible.

Part of the problem as I see it is that many Christians do not really follow the will of Jesus, they are not filled with the Love that Jesus taught.

I think the person who posted this picture and the people who put up the billboard, if it is real, would claim to be Christian.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?380805-Why-are-the-only-good-Muslims-moderate-Muslims&p=4639050&viewfull=1#post4639050

Why do you call them mohammedans and why don't you capitalize it?

Tim

[JBinMN]

So why is is the discussion of a political ideology veiled in a religion been allowed to remain in theology, and not been moved to the PIT?

I agree with you but this is where it currently is located, so I have not posted here since the topic started here & I had something to say.

It will take a staff member to move it, so until then, as long as it remains here it is still open for discussion.

[JBinMN]

I agree that Islam is way worse than Christianity but Christians have killed way more Muslims that Muslim have kill Christians. The Oppression of Islam is horrible.

I would like to see the facts for that statement if ya don't mind, as I do not believe that it is as accurate as you may think.

Yes, I could go look it up myself, but since you offered the statement, I ask that you provide some sources for the "numbers" to substantiate the statement.
:)

Part of the problem as I see it is that many Christians do not really follow the will of Jesus, they are not filled with the Love that Jesus taught.

I think the person who posted this picture and the people who put up the billboard, if it is real, would claim to be Christian.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?380805-Why-are-the-only-good-Muslims-moderate-Muslims&p=4639050&viewfull=1#post4639050

That is something you will have to address with the person who posted it. I do not want to make a comment in particular and appear as though I am answering for another, but I will say that when I was in the Corps long ago, that was a common phrase, so it rings true that it may still be in use in some places. (I will add though - A bit of history that some may or may not remember , but in Beirut, Lebanon 1983, a mohammedan truck bomb was set off at a barracks full of U.S. Marines & other US military personnel while they were asleep, due to the need for the U.S. Chain of Command having to get authorization to chamber(lock & load) the firearms to use their firearms in defense of that barracks, from all the way back to the top leadership, to pass the order down for the sentries who were guarding that area, so they were unable to stop or hinder the attack, & during the time I was in the Corps, there were those who were there who did not return from it & I knew some of them. The loss of our brothers & sisters in arms under such conditions is something many of us will not forget. Thus to many the mohammedans get NO respect.)

Why do you call them mohammedans and why don't you capitalize it?

I dislike them & their political ideology & do not respect them. I also do not use the words "muslim" or "islam" very often either. So, I do not give them the credit of having a capital letter in front of their cult.

Tim

I will try to answer any questions from you, directed at me, when I see them, but I cannot answer for others & their posts' contents. You will have to direct your questions about their opinions to them directly.
:)

[1hole]

I agree that Islam is way worse than Christianity but Christians have killed way more Muslims that Muslim have kill Christians. The Oppression of Islam is horrible.

You seem to know who Christians really are but then you equate all non-christians with us; that's hardly honest is it? Show us how and where you think Christians are "oppressing" Muslims - a single instance will do.

You call Christians "haters?" We hear a steady stream of liberal haters screaming "racists", "Islamaphobes", "sexists", "homophobes", etc, all flowing from the sewer mouths of America's self-described "highly educated and tolerant PC liberals". But WE know who the real "haters" are even if you don't!

Modern liberals do love to toss the word "hate" around as if their accusing all who disagree with any of their specious ideas automatically makes them right. They're wrong of course but group-think name calling obviously works in their sheltered echo chambers and it saves them from having to intelligently support or even think about their wrong headed ideas.

You're right on one point tho; Christians do attempt to draw others into the family of God; we make no apologies for trying to keep the lost away from eternal he77. But, unlike Muslims and in spite of your hateful anti-Christian posts, you'll play he77 finding a single instance of Christians trying to accomplish that spiritual conversion at the point of a sword. And, once again, you know it.

[dtknowles]

I will try to answer any questions from you, directed at me, when I see them, but I cannot answer for others & their posts' contents. You will have to direct your questions about their opinions to them directly.
:)

90,000 Christians were killed for their beliefs worldwide last year and nearly a third were at the hands of Islamic extremists like ISIS.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/christians-the-most-persecuted-group-in-world-for-second-year-study

Russia killed maybe as many as 250,000 Muslims civilians in the second Chechen war between 1994 and 2003

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Second_Chechen_War

BANGUI, Central African Republic – Tens of thousands of Muslims are fleeing to neighboring countries by plane and truck as Christian militias stage brutal attacks, shattering the social fabric of this war-ravaged nation

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/tens-of-thousands-of-muslims-flee-christian-militias-in-central-african-republic/2014/02/07/5a1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d51098ead8a8

[Outpost75]

As long as Protestants practice adherence to the fundamentals of Christianity there is little to no chance of peace between them and any non-believers. Unless Christians abandon their faith there is going to be no change and no change means constant war with the rest of the planet with extermination of one side or the other the end result. When their place in eternity is on the line they will never compromise.

Tim

Replace the word Christian with Mohammedan and it is also true.

[dtknowles]

Then there was the Christian genocide of Muslims in Kosovo and American bombing and ground wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Islamist fight with terroristic attacks because Christian Armies have technological superiority. Christians because of their technological superiority often inflict many times the casualties that the Islamists inflict. Christians also encourage Islamist groups to fight each other. If Christians incite violence between Sunnis and Shiites are the Christians not somewhat responsible for the deaths on both sides.

If the Saudis bomb and starve the Houthis with U.S. supplied weapons and intel and have their planes refueled by American tankers are Americans guiltless.

If you claim that wars are different then was not ISIS and Al Qaeda terrorism not war as well.

Tim

[dtknowles]

Replace the word Christian with Mohammedan and it is also true.

Yes, if you had been following the thread you would see that for that post I replaced Muslim with Christian in someone else's post.

Now it even seems that you could use Buddhists as well with them having a genocide against Rohingya Muslims.

Granted it seems almost everyone seems to want to kill the Muslims even other Muslims.

Tim

[Outpost75]

Tim, go back and read my post #8 again. If you love your enemy so much I'm sure that Oxfam would be happy to arrange the deployment for you to do The Lords Work.

I would prefer going over with tactical nukes and could recommend a suitable target list to POTUS.

241602

[dtknowles]

……….. But, unlike Muslims and in spite of your hateful anti-Christian posts, you'll play he77 finding a single instance of Christians trying to accomplish that spiritual conversion at the point of a sword. And, once again, you know it.

You are wrong it is easy to find instances of Christian violence against Muslims.

BANGUI, Central African Republic – Tens of thousands of Muslims are fleeing to neighboring countries by plane and truck as Christian militias stage brutal attacks, shattering the social fabric of this war-ravaged nation

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.d51098ead8a8

[Outpost75]

Yes, if you had been following the thread you would see that for that post I replaced Muslim with Christian in someone else's post.

Now it even seems that you could use Buddhists as well with them having a genocide against Rohingya Muslims.

Granted it seems almost everyone seems to want to kill the Muslims even other Muslims.

Tim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH1e8uZzTaY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvhYqeGp_Do

[M-Tecs]

You are wrong it is easy to find instances of Christian violence against Muslims.

BANGUI, Central African Republic – Tens of thousands of Muslims are fleeing to neighboring countries by plane and truck as Christian militias stage brutal attacks, shattering the social fabric of this war-ravaged nation

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.d51098ead8a8

Your link doesn't work. This is what it states.

Sorry, we can’t find what you are looking for.
Take a deep breath. Everything’s going to be okay.

[Outpost75]

Wapo is simply the DC edition of Pravda anyway...

They all went to the Janet Cook school of journalism.

[M-Tecs]

My favorite animals in the world are tigers and grizzly bears. Understanding that tigers and grizzly bears do not play well humans doesn't mean I hate tigers and grizzly bears. It just means I understand reality. Allowing wild tigers and grizzly bears in Central Parks is not workable. History has shown Islam and Sharia Law are not compatitable in western culture.

Throughout history the followers of the Qur'an coupled with Sharia Law have never played well with the rest of the world. There is a lot I like about the Arabic Culture and their contribution to the world. Unfortunately very little if any of that happen since Muhammad wrote the Qur'an.

Just one example here. While this did not end well for Islam but it did change the course of history in Europe. Genghis Khan was well on his way to take over all of Europe until two brutal acts by the Muslim Monarch Khwarizm Shah caused Genghis Khan to redirect his forces away from his conquest of Europe to the middle East.

https://lifeinsaudiarabia.net/blog/2019/01/28/who-was-genghis-khan/

Strange how the so called acts of Muslim persecution have always been a direct result of Muslim not playing well with the rest of the kids in the sand box. It's almost like bad behavior has consequences.

[1hole]

Russia killed maybe as many as 250,000 Muslims civilians in the second Chechen war between 1994 and 2003.
----------------------------
BANGUI, Central African Republic – Tens of thousands of Muslims are fleeing to neighboring countries by plane and truck as Christian militias stage brutal attacks, shattering the social fabric of this war-ravaged nation


Well, at last you offer a foundation for your mistaken position.

I'll ask, by what reasonable metric do you presume the Russian government to be "Christian"? Ditto the backwards governments in Africa? You don't have to know much about most of the world's governments - and their militaries - to know they most certainly are NOT by any honest (spiritual) means Christian!

But, bloody Muslims are bloody Muslims in every country and society they infiltrate. THEY and their Allah are the primary cause of their own disasters wherever they live, inside Arabia or anywhere else in the world. And it's not due to anyone's hatred of the Muslim religion, as such, it's because Muslims, as a group, are extremely unruly and ungrateful at best ... and sneaky murdering rapists when they think they can get away with it. And you know it.

[M-Tecs]

Good read here

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6986565/Persecution-Christians-modern-day-genocide-says-report.html

[Ickisrulz]

You are wrong it is easy to find instances of Christian violence against Muslims.


Genuine Christians, those that adhere to Jesus' teachings after a conversion experience, do not use violence to spread Christian beliefs, engage in holy wars to wipe out people of other faiths, etc. In short, true Christians are not murderers. "No murderer has eternal life residing in him." (1 John 3:15).

Anyone can call himself a Christian or a nation can claim to be a Christian country, but it does not make it so.

[flyer1]

Tim, I thought you left this forum a while back. You said you had enough and weren't coming back. Your rested and recharged enough to defend the indefensible now?

[jmort]

I love them smell of irony in the morning.
Surprised this was not expedited to The Pit.

[1hole]

Genuine Christians, those that adhere to Jesus' teachings after a conversion experience, do not use violence to spread Christian beliefs, engage in holy wars to wipe out people of other faiths, etc. ....
Anyone can call himself a Christian or a nation can claim to be a Christian country, but it does not make it so.

He knows that is true but truth doesn't fit his favorite narrative on the subject.

[dtknowles]

Genuine Christians, those that adhere to Jesus' teachings after a conversion experience, do not use violence to spread Christian beliefs, engage in holy wars to wipe out people of other faiths, etc. In short, true Christians are not murderers. "No murderer has eternal life residing in him." (1 John 3:15).

Anyone can call himself a Christian or a nation can claim to be a Christian country, but it does not make it so.

Agreed and it does not matter what country they reside.

Tim

[Snow ninja]

So if you want to know if a belief system is good or not, just examine its extremists and their lives will tell you where that belief system will lead you.

Who are your extremists? Does this work with the Westboro Baptist Church??

[1hole]

Does this work with the Westboro Baptist Church??

Say what? Do you really want us to believe that, at least in your own eyes, Westboro is Christian? If so, you really do need some new glasses!

No one need have watched the reports on Westboro very closely, or for very long, to know Christians are the strongest critics of everything they say and do. But, in spite of our progressives best efforts to stop it, America is still a (mostly) free country so if it fits anyone's weird political agenda to say Westboro is "Christian", have at it.

[dtknowles]

People here have sometimes accused me of Attacking Christians. I have much respect for people I think are True Christians and have attacked some of the beliefs of persons claiming to be Christians but who act and speak of things that I think are wrong and sometimes even evil and against the preaching of Jesus. While I am uncertain if Jesus is the Christ, I am sure he was a very wise and devoted person who's consul should be followed.

The Westboro Baptists are not true Christians and they spread a message of evil.

Tim

[M-Tecs]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/islamist-extremism-caused-84000-deaths-worldwide-in-2017-a-new-report-says/?fbclid=IwAR20vaso2SkjIFfgoQmzRw6kjijd1T4Jcj4H_4Ml oiNXefjNPwo18bxLSOQ

Islamist extremism caused 84,000 deaths worldwide in 2017, new report says

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Does this work with the Westboro Baptist Church??

Yes it does. You can judge the beliefs of Westboro Baptist based on their extremists.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

As long as Protestants practice adherence to the fundamentals of Christianity there is little to no chance of peace between them and any non-believers. Unless Christians abandon their faith there is going to be no change and no change means constant war with the rest of the planet with extermination of one side or the other the end result. When their place in eternity is on the line they will never compromise.

Tim

Interesting. If you consider this statement, it is untrue. Christianity has a way of even making war a tad more humane. Consider the plight of POWs in Geneva compact nations vs. Noncompact nations.

[dtknowles]

Interesting. If you consider this statement, it is untrue. Christianity has a way of even making war a tad more humane. Consider the plight of POWs in Geneva compact nations vs. Noncompact nations.

Well,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_the_Geneva_Conventions

Does not seem to be strictly Christians.

Tim

[Hickory]

So what to do about it. The constitution prohibits discrimination based on Religion or Politics.

Tim

Discrimination does not have a place in survival, one gets killed or kills to stay alive. Not hard for clear thinkers to figure out.

[M-Tecs]

So what to do about it. The constitution prohibits discrimination based on Religion or Politics.

Tim

Not correct

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-employers-discriminate-based-on-political-beliefs-or-affiliation.html

"Can an employer fire or discriminate against an employee based on political beliefs? You may be surprised to learn that, for many employees, the answer is yes. Federal law does not protect private employees from discrimination based on their politics. However, some states do protect employees from certain types of political discrimination. And, an employer may not use an employee’s politics as a pretext for discrimination based on a protected trait, like race or religion."

[PhotoDominant]

To answer the original question posted.

In political terms, moderate muslims are those who contribute to democratic foundations. Extremist muslims are those who take money from democratic foundations and supporters.

But in military parlance, a moderate muslim MAKES the IEDs and BOMB VESTS in an attempt to avoid having to be an Extremist who WEARS the bomb vest

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Well,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_the_Geneva_Conventions

Does not seem to be strictly Christians.

Tim

It originated from Christianity. The first convention was all Christian nations. The Red Cross started it. It wasn't until later that other faiths began to say "me too" - and now we have Red Cross/Red Crescent.

[1hole]

Moderate vs. radical Muslim is often interpreted to be the same as moderate vs. fundamental Christianity; that's by no means true. Those who cling to that delusion are closing their minds to their defenders while blindly opening their tolerant bosoms to a bloody religion of vipers. Allowed to reach the determined Islamic end, efforts to be sweet to the followers of a murderous sixth century Allah will eventually get everyone killed.

The word "Islam" means those religionists who believe the teachings of Mohommud (sp?) as it's explained in their supposed sacred book, the "Koran"; those who follow are "Muslims", i.e., those who submit to Islamic teaching. Fundamental to Islam's teaching is a belief that Muslims will eventually take over all the peoples of the world, either by conviction, fear or death; if they do not believe every word of the Koran then they don't believe Islam and are therefore subject to merciless murder themselves, by any means or back-stabbing deceptions necessary. In plain English, Muslims are book taught from their mother's breasts to hate others with a deadly intensity and to be sly and dishonest in bloody pursuit of their religion's long term goals.

So, with that understanding, we have "moderate" vs. radical Muslims but everyone should KNOW that BOTH have the same final end before them. The applied difference at this moment is the so-called radicals seek to kill us as quickly as possible so their world will be at "peace." The moderates disagree only in the timing; moderates don't think the time to kill all others has yet come. But none of us should be fooled, even their moderates fully believe Allah's time for the murder of all others will surely come and, when it does, even the "moderates" expect to participate.

I see little in the moderate's timing difference to make the non-muslim world feel comfortable.

It is Jewish-Christian to live in peace and allow others the freedom to live as they wish. Those who see no deadly difference between Christians and ANYONE else are blinded by their own "hate". We hate no one, we kill no one, we defend others even when we strongly disagree with them and we strongly reject anyone who teaches or does harm to anyone, especially in the name of Christ. And, happily, very few do.

[JBinMN]

If anyone is really interested, I think this article may be able to explain the differences between, "Islam" & "Islamism".

http://www.danielpipes.org/documents/366.pdf

http://www.danielpipes.org/366/islam-and-islamism-faith-and-ideology

I am still going with the thinking that Mohammedanism(Islam/Islamism) is a political ideology that is disguised as a religion.

[M-Tecs]

https://thefederalist.com/2017/01/06/christians-need-stop-naive-muslim-immigration/?fbclid=IwAR01IplHp89EfnUJHnccU6V5WiXEIOPGnmHwPRJj 7lHJMDUuYeQ5WhaGY-k#.XOwohhWnwm8.facebook

Christians Need To Stop Being So Naive About Muslim Immigration
Many Christians have been lulled into a childish view of the world and think that deep down Muslims are not too different from them.


By Wendy Wilson
January 6, 2017

Soon after the November attack at Ohio State University, we learned the Somali Muslim perpetrator had been welcomed to the United States as a refugee by Catholic Charities of Dallas. This bit of news caught my attention because years ago I worked there for a brief time.
In the early 1990s after graduating from college, I served there for a year as part of a volunteer stipend program, helping immigrants caught here illegally prepare their cases for immigration court. My roommates worked on the refugee resettlement side, helping newly arrived families with refugee status.

I’ve continued to be fascinated with immigration and looked for ways to be helpful. It’s what drew me to teaching English to immigrant students. But my perspective widened and concerns grew as I learned more about our porous borders and problems throughout the West with assimilation, and as I witnessed the growing influence of a warped multiculturalism that convinces many to quash any uneasiness about newcomers, no matter how reasonable. In voicing my concerns, I’ve been slammed by other Christians who’ve called me ignorant and uncaring.
Although I worked for Catholic Charities, I’m a lifelong Protestant. I was raised Lutheran and for many years now have attended conservative Presbyterian churches. Multiculturalism long ago began to muscle its way into mainline Protestant churches but is now running amok in conservative churches, too, with many Christians fearful of being called a bigot for criticizing other traditions and beliefs.
While those in mainline churches tout diversity in a way that differs little from those outside the church, more devout Christians have adopted multiculturalism as a way to better evangelize. Emotion and sentiment have taken over reason, leaving people without the resources to sufficiently analyze threats to our culture and safety, and in some cases, even a diminished interest in doing so. The more pious shame others for their concerns, saying sacrifice and saving souls should come way before worries about ensuring America’s survival as a strong nation.
Many Evangelicals Don’t Seem to Get It
Trump did well among evangelicals in winning the presidency. Many conservative Christians cited Supreme Court picks as the top reason they were voting for him despite his personal moral failings. It’s far from clear that Christians en masse would fully support proposals to seriously restrict Muslim immigration, especially once they face the wrath of activists and journalists more determined than ever to smear them as racists. Also, there’s a strong movement among intellectual evangelicals to embrace Muslim immigration.

In December 2015, more than 100 evangelical leaders met at Wheaton College to discuss how Christians should respond to the migrant crisis that began early that year. They released a statement that gave only passing mention to security concerns while focusing primarily on telling Christians not to be fearful.
“We will not be motivated by fear but by love for God and others…We cannot allow voices of fear to dominate,” the statement read. But rational fear is a healthy thing. It serves to protect, and in protecting, shows love. The Bible has plenty of examples of God’s people taking measures to protect their communities. There’s no reason to fear every single Muslim we meet, but in looking at the bigger picture, there are perfectly valid reasons to fear the violence and political and cultural change a growing Muslim population can bring.
Some of my devout Christian friends insist we shouldn’t speak out much about atrocities Muslims have committed because if we do, Muslims won’t be open to hearing the gospel from us. Neither, they say, should we voice too many criticisms about religious differences that might upset them. But how can there be any hope of having a functioning multicultural society if there are taboos against criticizing traditions that aren’t your own? This misguided quest to be nice and welcoming creates space for the strong-armed to run over the weak, the very type of scenario you would think Christians concerned about justice would care about.
Muslims Aren’t Just Another Denomination
I’ve also heard Christians point to successful assimilation of immigrants in years past as proof that waves of Muslim immigration will work out just fine, too. When migrants began pouring into Europe, my friends shared stories of their ancestors arriving at Ellis Island, as if there are few differences between what happened then and what’s happening now. I recently got into a discussion with a Baptist pastor who says we shouldn’t worry since competing Protestant sects as well as Catholics were eventually accepted into the mainstream of American life.

It’s hard for me to wrap my mind around how my educated friends and educated church leaders can’t see that differences between Islam and Christianity are profoundly greater than differences between various Christian groups. Have they not read the history of Islamic conquest? Can they not observe the differences in today’s world between countries dominated by Islam and Western countries founded on Christian and Enlightenment values? Are they not aware of the widespread problems with migrants assaulting women in Germany, one of the latest victims being the daughter of a European official, who was raped and drowned? Have they not heard about the sharia law courts Muslim immigrants have created in England and the schools where Muslim children are taught barbaric practices?
Last year, I joined a class at my church sponsored by the Crescent Project, a Christian ministry founded to share the gospel with Muslims globally. In some respects, it’s an organization I’m happy to support. Their efforts seem sincere and helpful in prodding Christians with little previous intercultural experience to step outside their comfort zones. Yet it’s also one of those programs that leads to some Christians becoming so filled with zeal, they develop tunnel vision.
One woman in my class said she used to be afraid when she saw a Muslim at the grocery store, but now, thanks to the class, believes it’s God’s will for Muslims to come to the United States so we can witness to them. I’ve heard this idea expressed elsewhere as well, sometimes with great enthusiasm. God is blessing us, the thinking goes, by bringing Muslims here so we don’t have to travel abroad to reach them.
However, this turns previous concepts of missionary work on their heads. Missions used to be primarily about assuming risks for yourself and perhaps your family as you ventured into unsafe terrain. By endorsing growing rates of Muslim immigration into the United States, Christians are insisting that their neighbors here assume the risks too, all for the convenience of their evangelism programs.

Such rosy pictures can likely be traced partly to the fact that even in many conservative churches today, pastors shy away from discussing evil and the reality that there are people in this world seeking to deceive and destroy. We’ve been marinating in a theology that focuses excessively on grace and inner peace to the exclusion of other parts of the Bible that tell us evil is always on the march.
Both the Old and New Testaments make frequent use of words such as battle, soldier, and warfare in both the literal sense and in a metaphorical spiritual sense. But you will be hard-pressed to hear those words in sermons today. Many Christians have been lulled into a childish view of the world and think that deep down everyone is not too different from them. But history and the contemporary world should show us that fundamentalist Islam is radically different from the beliefs of Christians and other Americans. If we don’t fully wake up to this reality, we will pay a heavier price for our delusions than we already have.
Wendy Wilson is a teacher and writer in Nashville. She has a master’s degree in intercultural studies from Union University in Jackson, Tennessee, and has been a member of churches affiliated with the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA).

[augercreek]

All this last tome is true! Most of our main line church's ( denominations ) want to be all inclusive ( anything goes ). They have feet of clay and cannot stand for what the Bible says! Most parishioners are scared to stand for fear of being called out for what they believe. If a person will not stand for what they belief of what value are they? As for me I will stand for Christ !!!!

[Txcowboy52]

I agree!

[Outpost75]

I'll take you up on that, eventually. I should be in the Baltimore area this winter for a couple of weeks.

Please be aware that I am of the school which preaches that there are fundamental differences between the Carlisle School of Cultural Diversity, Political Correctness and Beltway Success, vs. the Leavenworth School of Advanced Infantry Studies geared towards ruthlessly killing all who hate Western Society and Therefore Deserve It. My being of the latter group. Slay them all for our Lord will recognise his own.

244681

[9.3X62AL]

What Outpost 75 said, in toto. Islam in all of its forms is a death cult. A Manson Family, written large. There are faster and slower variants, but their ultimate goals are the same.

[BoolitSchuuter]

Outpost75 is spot on in his assessment of islam. While my study is nowhere near the depth or breadth of his observations, i would argue that islam is not a religion. It is a political ideology complete wth a political heirarchy, tax code, system of laws and punishment, and establishes the descendants of a genocidal pedophile as the sole heads of state. Some have called it stateless when in fact it seeks the entire world as its state. Free governments should act accordingly.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I was essentially PNG'd from a rather left leaning Sunday School class in a United Methodist Church that we used to attend over this. They were doing a "study on Islam" and after several Sundays of biting my tongue while hearing their PC version of Islam, I was pinged upon by the class leader for my comments. I've worked counter terror Islamic investigations during my LE career, including the 9/11 attacks and spent two years in Iraq immersed in that culture as a Dept of State Police Trainer. I had lots more experience and education on this than they did and I professionally summarized the intents and goals of Islam wherever they may be in action. I explained their down in the dirt attitudes towards women, Christians, Jews and anybody not like them. I explained the concept of al Taquiya, in which lying, dissimulation and manipulation of truth and their intent is required to further Islam. There was more, but by the time I was through, I'd dumped a nasty turd in their PC punchbowl by my discussion and by my sincere warning for them to not play with the Islamic rattlesnake. All of this, combined with a leftist pastor who actually burned a candle of mourning for an active shooter suspect caused us to move on to another congregation.

[Outpost75]

Sounds familiar. I left my church for the exact same reason. I especially like your turd in the punchbowl analogy, much more effective than my mere condom in the collection plate.

244785244787

[iomskp]

The never ending my invisible friend is better than your invisible friend.

[dtknowles]

The never ending my invisible friend is better than your invisible friend.

There is but one invisible friend. Some people just have different ideas of what their invisible friend expects from them. Often the religious care more about power and politics than they do about morality.

Tim