BCPR success on a budget

[4t5]

I initially came to this forum from another one that mentioned something about casting boolits for the M1A. After reading a whole bunch, I became interested in BPCR shooting. My first instinct was to go buy a $3500 rifle, which would likely be sold later for a loss. Now, I must be getting a little smarter because I bought a $350 rifle instead, the H&R 1871 Buffalo Classic in 45-70. The bore slugged out to .458. I then used my Stony Point gizmo to measure the OAL. I casted up some 500 grain boolits from 20:1 using a 457125, then sized them to .429 and lubed them with White Label. I primed the R-P cases with a CCI LR primer, poured in 55 grains of SWISS 1.5 FG, then topped it with a veggie wad and two .030 LDPE wads. Then I seated the boolit about .020 from the lands, which almost kept the last groove in the case. Range time!

I was able to get one ragged hole at 50 yards. I used a blow tube every other shot and swabbed out the barrel every 10 shots. I was able to get off 30 rounds before I started flinching. Cleanup was surprisingly easy. I don't like the rear sight. One of the screws interferes with the movement of the aperture for windage adjustment. I am looking forward to getting the micrometer rear sight that I have ordered from Midway and trying it at 100 yards. Thanks to everyone who has shared their knowledge on this forum. I couldn't have done it without you.

ETA: I meant .459 of course.

[montana_charlie]

I casted up some 500 grain boolits from 20:1 using a 457125, then sized them to .429 and lubed them with White Label.
I'm guessing you meant to say you sized them to .459".
When you get your new sight, get away from that 50 yard stuff. It's Ok to get the gun boresighted, but doesn't even touch the capabilities of the cartridge.
CM

[SharpsShooter]

Congrats on a good start. The 457125 is my favorite in my 75 Sharps. I see groups of just a smidge over MOA at 100 and I use it for hunting also. (I'm sure you meant .459 sizing)


SS

[Gellot Wilde]

I've been using that Lyman 457125 for at least 10 years now, it's a superb bullet choice.

[13Echo]

Excellent start. To help with flinching get and use a Past type recoil shield. It will do wonders, especially when you start shooting full house loads.
Jerry Liles

[Dale53]

I shot BPCR for fifteen years - until I lost most of my vision in my right eye. One thing that I would do if I had it to "do over" is put a GOOD recoil pad on my rifle. I used a Past Pad that worked well but I would have been better served by a good, thick, recoil pad. NO-0-0-0-0, not me - it would look tacky. So, I put up with less than perfect recoil assist in favor of LOOKS. Dumb - kind of like marrying a girl that is pretty but can't/won't learn to do anything and/or is a tramp. Kind of a bad idea.

Fortunately, I picked my wife a lot better than I did my rifle. :mrgreen: We celebrated our 50th Wedding Anniversary this year. Actually, my rifle(s) are just fine, it is just their lack of recoil pads that represents a bad choice:confused:.

FWIW
Dale53

[montana_charlie]

Speaking of recoil pads...
That H&R has a butt that is pretty similar to the 'military butt' on my Sharps.

I have been eyeing the recoil pad I bought for my Ruger 10-22, and it looks like it could work on the Sharps...with only a slight amount of modification. I'm talking about modification of the recoil pad...not the rifle.

Done carefully, and drilling holes that match those in the wood, it might not look too bad.
The nice thing is...the rifle can always be put back to original.
CM

[Boz330]

Recoil pad on a 10-22? :kidding: Or was it just to extend the length of pull.

Bob

[montana_charlie]

Recoil pad on a 10-22? :kidding: Or was it just to extend the length of pull.

Bob
yes...

[John Boy]

4t ... put a 3" LR Vernier sight on the BC and it will shoot to 1000yds accurately. Mine does ... http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,119506.0.html

[longbow]

About 30 years ago I had a .45-70 built on an 8x57 rimmed Siamese Mauser action. I got excited while waiting for the gunsmith to build it and decided I would load up some ammo so I would be ready to shoot when the gun was done... as soon as it was done. Well, the '98 Mauser action is pretty skookum so I looked up loads, got some brass, got myself a 457125 mould, cast some boolits, set 'em over a rather large charge of smokeless and waited quite impatiently for the gun.

When done, the gunsmith and I went to the range. He wanted the first shot. No problem. He pulled the trigger and handed me the gun. One shot was enough for him. I found out why after I pulled the trigger! Light sporter barrel and plastic butt plate ~ Youch!

I wound up going the woosie route and bought a Pachmyr triple magnum recoil pad after going home black and blue the first time (yes I had to shoot it even though it hurt... a lot).

After installation of the recoil pad and going to a slower powder it didn't hurt to shoot. In fact it shot well. Never shot in competition but I'm sure the gun and the 457125 would have been competitive. My friends and I used to pop balloons at 300 yards with a Williams peep rear and globe front site guiding that 457125.

It is a big 'ol lump of lead and it shot very well from my gun. Kinda like an artillery piece!

Looks like you made a good choice as to gun and boolit, and you should have a lot of fun. The 457125 should serve you well.

Longbow

[725]

The H&R is perfect for the instalation of a mercury recoil reducer. The butt stock has a through bolt that holds the stock to the receiver. Simply get a tube the size of the hole used for the bolt and a same sized wooden dowl cut to fit the length left over so it does slop back and forth and bingo serious recoil is gone. I've put a bunch of these in my guns and guns for friends and it simply just stops recoil problems. Shooting the NEF / H&R / H&W break action single shots in a heavy .45-70 can be more than punishing. Add a reducer and it shoots like a .243. Really.

[missionary5155]

Sticking to the "BUDGET" you can fold up a towel for the bench stuff. My trapdoor, Rollingblocks, and Jap Winny all feel much better to my bony little shoulder blades. Sitting upright also helps a bunch. Crosssticks are a huge help. A couple 3/4 inch hickory sticks cut 20 years ago are still doing fine... getting some shorter.

[boommer]

I bought a slip on neoprene with different thickness pad inserts from Gander Mtn. I think it was 20.00 bucks like it so much pick up 2nd one.
Beartooth products www.beartoothprouducts.com
Just looking at the box now and comes with 1/4 3/8 1/2 and 5/8" thick inserts.

[4t5]

I was able to get a little more range time, this time with the new rear sight. It worked well, but I need to figure out how to get a diopter lens in it. I was able to get good accuracy, with 3 shots touching at 100 yards. I set up the chronograph and it indicated that I was getting 1140 fps. The velocity was very consistent. I'm wondering if I should try to pack more powder in that case. I am at 55g of Swiss 1.5FG, there is no leading, not much fouling, but recoil is already stout. I'm mainly concerned with having enough velocity to shoot longer ranges. Any opinions?

[Dale53]

I have a system to work up a load for a Black Powder Cartridge Rifle. I load up ten rounds with zero powder compression. Then I load ten rounds with an additional two grains (everything else the same). In effect, I have compressed the powder two grains (I use a compression die as trying to compress powder with a soft bullet damages the bullet). Then I add another two grains and compress. At any rate, the normal progression is to start with rather wide groups at zero compression, then as the powder is compressed, the groups get smaller. As compression continues the groups get smaller until the limit is reached and the groups start opening up. At the "balance point", you can juggle the charges one grain each side to end up with the BEST load. When that is determined, you can load and shoot ad finitum.

My experience with Swiss is that it doesn't need much compression. Some of my loads vary from .035" to .085" compression depending on the bullet. Goex, on the other hand, seems to benefit from more compression (as much as .350").

One more comment. If you are just using the rifle for short range target (300 yards or closer) you will have MUCH less recoil with a lighter bullet (say, 350 gr). That brings much more pleasure. Of course, if your intentions are to shoot BPCR Silhouette or Long Range then the heavy bullet is mandatory.

Dale53

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Not to hurt your feelings, but;the H&R is not winning any matches or setting BPCRS records. I did not see even one at The Quigley this June. They are fun due to the ability to swap barrels, but I would not take it to a match. That diopter sight will have to go as well.

Enjoy it for what it is, but don't expect too much. If it had any merit as a match rifle it would have debuted 20-30 years ago and be seen in the equipment lists long ago.

I have a couple Shilohs, and they would all sell for more than they cost me new. It is not how much it costs, it's how much it cost you to own it.



Rich

[SharpsShooter]

Not to hurt your feelings, but;the H&R is not winning any matches or setting BPCRS records. I did not see even one at The Quigley this June. They are fun due to the ability to swap barrels, but I would not take it to a match. That diopter sight will have to go as well.

Enjoy it for what it is, but don't expect too much. If it had any merit as a match rifle it would have debuted 20-30 years ago and be seen in the equipment lists long ago.

I have a couple Shilohs, and they would all sell for more than they cost me new. It is not how much it costs, it's how much it cost you to own it.



Rich

Hate to argue, but I will. I have seen two H&R's that would shoot with the fearsome shiloh's. I watched a gent run 8 of ten rams at 500m with a 45-70 H&R and had no difficulty doing it a couple years back at a match I was attending. The second is a BC that belongs to a friend. With 520gr PP, it is a ragged hole gun at 100yds and I have seen him break clay birds set in the snow at 300yds (Distance confirmed with a laser range finder)

Don't discount the "cheaper" gun as being less accurate. Most of the folks that can afford them can't afford to travel to distant matches or simply choose not to participate. Mounting a tang sight is not only possible, but can be done with reasonable decorum .

SS

[northmn]

Like 4t5 I had a H&R Buffalo model. Even killed a deer with it. Put plain and simply some folks are not in a situation to fork over even the $1,600 for a good Pedersoli. Daughters need to get married, life style and whatever. I did not think that they would allow the H&R at shoots (did not blame them if they didn't). It was and is a good hunting gun. I used a sissy pad for sighting but left it alone for hunting as in MN you often have to dress warner in below freezing weather and sitting on a stand. With mine when you neck sized the cases they looked like bottlenecks when loaded, so no match chamber, but it shot well. The one thing I had against mine was that it just wasn't quite an authentic gun for the times. Also I wondered if it would lock up true for vernier sights. Just was able to trade into a Pedersoli Rolling Block. Still no match gun in design, (a little light barreled) but am looking forward to shooting it. It ain't all dumb to start with an H&R to see if you like the game. They perform well enough to learn on. Even if one buys a better one in a different caliber, one should still have a 45-70.

Northmn

[Kenny Wasserburger]

That is interesting to see a H&R at a Silhouette match. They are not NRA Legal for Silhouette? I dont think the accuracy is the issue, it is the light weight will pound you to death and the stock set up is very poor for recoil issues.

The lunger

[SharpsShooter]

That is interesting to see a H&R at a Silhouette match. They are not NRA Legal for Silhouette? I dont think the accuracy is the issue, it is the light weight will pound you to death and the stock set up is very poor for recoil issues.

The lunger

Kenny

The gent was shooting it to prove a point I believe, not for official score as they are not compliant with NRA rules. There were a lot of snickers when he got to the 500m stage, but after going 8 for 10 those snickers went silent. My pals BC is not too bad on recoil especially after we removed the butt plate and filled the through-bolt hole with tightly packed #7 lead shot, a couple heavy ticking wads and replaced the plate. It added nearly 3 pounds to it making it 11 pounds and improved the balance IMO. With 68gr of Goex Cart grade and a 457125 of 530gr it is very comfortable to shoot repeatedly.


SS

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Makes Sense SS.

The Lunger