The little 25/20 - Obsolete??

[Bad Ass Wallace]

It is near impossible to purchase 25/20 cases in this part of the world. Starline ceased production and the only ammo available is Hornady at $AU149 for 50!

There must be enough rifles and demand for at least one company to make brass shells!

[pietro]

.

You may want to use Starline 32-20 brass to make 25-20 brass.

Starline makes the 32-20 just a tad short, and necking the brass down usuallyy makes it grow, but there's not enough growth to get full length 25-20 specs.

All the same, they usually function just fine.


If you go the 32-20 brass route (new or used), be sure to run a 32-20 expander pug into the new 32-20 brass & full length resize before you neck them down.

Ensure that the case mouth is perfectly round before necking them down.

The use of Imperial sizing die wax will reduce case loss to nil.





Alternately, resize/de-prime .32-20 brass with the 32-20 dies, then anneal the case necks via standing them up in a shallow pan of water with just the top half out of the water.

In a dimly-lit room (to better see the color change), use a propane torch to bring the case necks to a low cherry glow and tip them over into the water, one at a time.

From there you can .25-20 dies with either the Imperial wax or Dillon's case lube.


.

[mattw]

I had waited for years for an affordable old lever gun or pump in 25-20. I had 75 once fired cases, finally sold them because I could not come up with a reasonably priced gun that had a good bore. I have shot many over the years and really like the caliber for a plinker.

[Bigslug]

I feel your pain B.A. My best advice would be to round up your chronies with similar needs (like on this thread, for instance), and have everybody contact Starline. Starline listens; we were able to orchestrate a run of .455 Webley MKII cases not long ago in similar fashion, and that's a dimensional exotic. Since they also do .32-20, the re-tool for them should be pretty straightforward.

Of course, they also do .32-20 at $116 U.S.D. for 500, so you could go the re-form route. A bit of a pain, but cheaper than the Hornady ammo by a LONG way!

[cwtebay]

It is near impossible to purchase 25/20 cases in this part of the world. Starline ceased production and the only ammo available is Hornady at $AU149 for 50!

There must be enough rifles and demand for at least one company to make brass shells!Is Load-X an option for you? I purchased 500 cases from them last September for what I considered a reasonable price. I also learned that Starline will make a run of most anything with an order for 100,000 units.

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[RED BEAR]

You might try http://gadcustomcartridges.com if they can't help i have no idea.

[beltfed]

BAW, you might try to get some 218 Bee brass. I just checked.
Hornady brand 218 Bee brass is available at Grafs.
YOu can simply neck it up to use as 25-20 WCF repeater.
Don't know what the deal is for you to get it from USA,
but I have heard of people ordering brass out here. and then sending it to Au.
beltfed/arnie

[rbuck351]

Yea, it's obsolete and it's really a shame as it is a great round. Fortunately I have enough brass to keep my two 25/20s shooting for the rest of my days. I would still buy another 500 if starline would make a run. I might get 32/20 as a back up.

[EDG]

I have been tempted to sell my 25-20 brass when I see it selling for $2 a case. The only 25-20 barrel I have is for a Contender. So I could maybe sell 600 cases for somewhere between $600 and $1200 and buy me a nice 25-20 rifle that I could not shoot unless I formed 32-20 brass.

[cwtebay]

The Load X brass is Starline. I believe that they had a custom run done.
My 11 year old son has an 1892 SRC and a Lee Loader. I gave him 50 pieces of brass, 500 cast bullets and primers and a pound of powder. He is down to around 100 bullets and primers, and still has 46 pieces of brass. We did anneal before starting, but it seems like it's very good quality.
Finding the 60gr flat point jacketed bullets has been problematic lately for me!

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[Multigunner]

My 23B came with most of a box of shells. When I went looking to buy more I could only find one gunshop that had a single 50 round box for around 48 bucks, about 53 bucks total with sales tax, and I had to make a round trip of over 100 miles to get those. I made a day of it and bought some more hard to find items and visited a shooting range I'd never been to before or since.

Haven't been out shooting for quite a while. The 25-20 is an excellent cartridge, and my 23B is sighted perfectly for the factory loads.
No more often than I go shooting these days I may never use up the few rounds I have.
If I run across a period correct scope I might mount it and try for neck shots on deer. But probably not.
Anything else I might hunt with it would be easy meat within the non scoped effective range.

[M-Tecs]

Loaded ammo is still available https://ammoseek.com/ammo/25-20-winchester

[Baja_Traveler]

Forming it is super easy, and I can do it with zero rejects. Going from there down to .218 Bee I loose 1-2 per 100 due to neck creasing. Just form it from 32-20 and call it done - make a few extra and sell it to your buddies to cover the cost of the Redding intermediate forming die and extended shell holder.

240366

[cwlongshot]

YES and its been obsolete for YEARS!!

But I have a couple so chambered and I for one will not let it DIE!

I bought my first dedicated mold last year!!

Been loading for it since my earliest days learning loading. 22Hornet, 218 Bee, 25/20 & 32/20. I still have all these original rifles so chambered plus a couple I picked up in the last 40+ years.

CW

[ole_270]

Not obsolete at my house, my Marlin probably gets used more than any other rifle. Still using on a few hundred Rem cases from years ago and have reformed a box of Starline 32-20 cases to see how well it worked. With a couple hundred 32-20 cases in reserve, I'm probably set till the rifle is inheireted by my son.

[FredBuddy]

What a pickle I'm in..........

I have brass, dies and a good mould,
but no rifle !!

I do load for a friend and his son, and they
don't shoot their rifle. I shot it more doing
load development and sighting in !!

Do you suppose I should step up the search ?

[Ajohns]

Ammunition Artifacts sells the brass, though all it says is 39 bucks. Not sure if that's 50 or 100? But says twice annealed anyway. Its made from Starline 32/20. I've had a 92 for years, once you use them it's hard to go without one. I've contemplated getting a Contender barrel and trying pointy jacketed pills but just can't justify it now. For flatnose, 75gr Speers are all but gone, Hornady's 60 grainer is hard to find too. I bought up a bunch of 86gr Remington's years ago that had two cannelures also for 25/35 and have used them for awhile. I like, but the 75 Speer seems better for me. The round is efficient, shoots well for any sane range with open sites, and isn't so loud at all. I wish the round had a new platform to go with, it's like a 22 mag on steroids, but reloadable.

[rockrat]

Try and find some of the WW 60gr HP bullets!!! Used to shoot those in my '92. Have a few 60gr FP and have shot some 75gr spire point bullets too. 25-20 was my first centerfire rifle.

[modified5]

What a pickle I'm in..........

I have brass, dies and a good mould,
but no rifle !!

I do load for a friend and his son, and they
don't shoot their rifle. I shot it more doing
load development and sighting in !!

Do you suppose I should step up the search ?

Yes, buy your friends rifle!

[EDG]

Same here. I have lots of components but no rifle. I have been looking for a rifle for about 10 years.
I think I will have to get something rebarreled....


What a pickle I'm in..........

I have brass, dies and a good mould,
but no rifle !!

I do load for a friend and his son, and they
don't shoot their rifle. I shot it more doing
load development and sighting in !!

Do you suppose I should step up the search ?

[cwtebay]

Try and find some of the WW 60gr HP bullets!!! Used to shoot those in my '92. Have a few 60gr FP and have shot some 75gr spire point bullets too. 25-20 was my first centerfire rifle.I have hoarded 250 of the little hollow points for years. I have an insert from a box of Winchester HV cartridges that had load data for the loading. Factory HV is 2250fps consistently, reloaded I am around 2050. Definitely need to adjust the sights for those! But rockchucks and ground squirrels are in trouble out to a heck of a lot further!

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[iomskp]

Have you called Bertram Brass in Seymour

[clum553946]

I wish starline would just make 25-20 Winchester brass. I’ve emailed them several times and they always say maybe down the road. I have some resized 32-20 that I would use in a pinch, but I own several rifles in both 25-20 & 32-20 & don’t want to run into an ammo mix up with resized brass as my eyes aren’t as young as they used to be.

[badgeredd]

218 Bee brass is available from Sinclair International which can ship down under.

[cwlongshot]

Speer offered a dandy lil 75g FP for the 25/20 about the time Marlin released there Classic line chambered for the Bee and 25 & 32 20’s.

I do not know if they discontinued them or not (my biggest “problem with Speer) But last summer I was able to buy a couple boxes at a small shop in Vermont. They also make a 22 version in 46g for the bee and I just bought some of those from midway.

But as we are CB and CB’s are nearly perfect for everything these lie calibers where we are set for fodder as long as we can keep the brass going!

CW

[moosemike]

Had a Marlin 1894 Classic 25-20 that I wish I had never let go of. But somebody had stamped the number 7 all over the darn thing.

[Good Cheer]

240698

Gangit. Didn't know the brass was getting hard to come by.

240699

Mine really loved the old Remington flat points.

[Greebe]

I really like my Marlin 1894 .25-20. As others have said, you can form cases from Starline .32-20. I like to have a quiet "critter gitter" load for around the homestead and have been loading it with Trail Boss and an 85gr cast lead bullet. I can get around 1100fps and a load that is as quiet as a .22lr in a rifle. I can also get in the neighborhood of 1200 reloads on a 9oz jug of Trail Boss which comes out to around 75 cents per 50 cartridges. This makes for a very cheap cartridge to shoot when you cast your own bullets. For the cost of primers and powder, I can reload 50 cartridges for only $2.25, you can't even buy .22LR for that any more.

Here is how I do it.

First I start with a .32-20 case and true the mouth with an expander to make it perfectly round, then I run it into a 6.5x55 Swede die with a homemade riser made from a .30-06 case with a steel insert in it, once this is sized I have a rod I made to tap it back out, then the case is annealed, then I neck size in a .25-20 neck sizer, then it is run into a full length .25-20 sizer which forms and pushes back the shoulder while sizing the body at the same time.

The sequence can be seen from left to right. After this you just expand the neck and load it up. It is a lot of work, but it is a fun little cartridge that is cheap to load once all this is done.

240900


(L to R) .32-20 case, - sized in 6.5 die with riser, - annealed, - neck sized in .25-20 neck sizer, - and sized in .25-20 full length sizer

240901

The slight ring you can see near the base of the finished case is from the first batch of 50 that I made with a factory Lyman FL Sizer. This dies squeezes the brass more then I liked so I opened it up and do not have this problem any more. I think that this die is a little tight to begin with and also .32-20 brass is a about 5 thousands larger then the .25-20 which makes the problem worse.

[cwtebay]

I really like my Marlin 1894 .25-20. As others have said, you can form cases from Starline .32-20. I like to have a quiet "critter gitter" load for around the homestead and have been loading it with Trail Boss and an 85gr cast lead bullet. I can get around 1100fps and a load that is as quiet as a .22lr in a rifle. I can also get in the neighborhood of 1200 reloads on a 9oz jug of Trail Boss which comes out to around 75 cents per 50 cartridges. This makes for a very cheap cartridge to shoot when you cast your own bullets. For the cost of primers and powder, I can reload 50 cartridges for only $2.25, you can't even buy .22LR for that any more.

Here is how I do it.

First I start with a .32-20 case and true the mouth with an expander to make it perfectly round, then I run it into a 6.5x55 Swede die with a homemade riser made from a .30-06 case with a steel insert in it, once this is sized I have a rod I made to tap it back out, then the case is annealed, then I neck size in a .25-20 neck sizer, then it is run into a full length .25-20 sizer which forms and pushes back the should while sizing the body at the same time.

The sequence can be seen from left to right. After this you just expand the neck and load it up. It is a lot of work, but it is a fun little cartridge that is cheap to load once all this is done.

240900


(L to R) .32-20 case, - sized in 6.5 die with riser, - annealed, - neck sized in .25-20 neck sizer, - and sized in .25-20 full length sizer

240901

The slight ring you can see near the base of the finished case is from the first batch of 50 that I made with a factory Lyman FL Sizer. This dies squeezes the brass more then I liked so I opened it up and do not have this problem any more. I think that this die is a little tight to begin with and also .32-20 brass is a about 5 thousands larger then the .25-20 which makes the problem worse.Very nice explanation! I like the cost breakdown, but especially like the completeness of your process - thank you for sharing this.

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[Greebe]

Very nice explanation! I like the cost breakdown, but especially like the completeness of your process - thank you for sharing this.

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Your welcome! Glad to show the process and hopefully inspire some other people to try the .25-20 as it is a pretty neat cartridge.

[Reverend Al]

I still have some .25-20 WCF brass and a set of RCBS dies left from my last '92 Winchester. At some point it would be nice to have a single shot in .25-20 WCF, but I already have a Maynard single shot in .25-20 SS (Single Shot) and a Stevens 44 single shot on the way to me also chambered for .25-20 SS, so another .25-20 WCF in a single shot won't happen in any great hurry since I'd likely have to re-barrel a single shot action to build one. And believe me, .25-20 SS brass is even tougher to find than .25-20 WCF brass!

https://i.imgur.com/XSqSbAa.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/a3nWTXb.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wXmCZr4.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QH3kwwE.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jbxFmkA.jpg

[Kev18]

I saw someone mention GAD. Stay away if you can.

[Ajohns]

My son and I shot some three to four time reloaded rounds this weekend out of my model 92. He did pretty good for a nine year old that had me holding the forend up for that 24" octagon barrel. Got some in the bullseye trying out the new to me Redfield receiver sight I put on Friday. But, those rounds found to be a lot of split cases. Better start looking to anneal soon if I keep using old brass like that.

[gunnie]

I hear ya there BAW!
Picked up the Mod92 last week, and its an interesting item in its own right. So had begun the chase for brass. I tried the re-size from 32-20 as I have a bag of new Remington brass. Yeah it works, but prefer the brass to match correctly.
So my only option was factory ammo. Geez, sell you liver & first born! Order one box of Remington factory 85gn jacketed & began to prepare myself for the pain in the wallet. It still smarts when I remember the wallet coping a ***-whooping for $176 !!!!!
I then lucked onto a contact who managed to get me 3 boxes of factory at a far better price. But then again, thinking about it, $140 a box of 50 is still a belt to the face with a 1 pound hammer!

Oh well, at least I'll have a stash of 100 while I play around with the first 100.

I'll be chasing you up for some 257cal pills BAW.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I'll be chasing you up for some 257cal pills BAW.
You just caught me in casting mode; I just made 250 CBE 80gn boolits for another AHN'er. Guess I can fire up the furnace and make some more!
Over the past 3 weeks I've cast about 6000 pistol & rifle boolits in total.

https://i.imgur.com/5R8I0TW.jpg

[cwtebay]

I hear ya there BAW!
Picked up the Mod92 last week, and its an interesting item in its own right. So had begun the chase for brass. I tried the re-size from 32-20 as I have a bag of new Remington brass. Yeah it works, but prefer the brass to match correctly.
So my only option was factory ammo. Geez, sell you liver & first born! Order one box of Remington factory 85gn jacketed & began to prepare myself for the pain in the wallet. It still smarts when I remember the wallet coping a ***-whooping for $176 !!!!!
I then lucked onto a contact who managed to get me 3 boxes of factory at a far better price. But then again, thinking about it, $140 a box of 50 is still a belt to the face with a 1 pound hammer!

Oh well, at least I'll have a stash of 100 while I play around with the first 100.

I'll be chasing you up for some 257cal pills BAW.I just confirmed, Load X still has properly headstamped cases for sale.
707-579-0990
And they are nowhere near what you are paying!
I think we're on load number 6-7 on the first 250. Yes they were annealed, and yes I crush a case here and there.

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[M-Tecs]

Do they ship to Australia?

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Do they ship to Australia?

Probably not! Our gummint thinks all shooters are towel-head terrorists going to commit violent acts with a 120y/o rifle and near obsolete boolits :kidding:

[cwtebay]

Probably not! Our gummint thinks all shooters are towel-head terrorists going to commit violent acts with a 120y/o rifle and near obsolete boolits :kidding:I have directly ordered from Bertram before, I'm unsure if the reverse is possible.

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[gunnie]

For us folk in the land of Down Unda, importing firearms, parts, ammo & components is heavily restricted. Not impossible but requiring import permits, B709A. The biggest hurdle is finding a supplier in the USA who has paid your govmnt the necessary fees/licenses etc as predicated by ITARs. There are some that will but a lot won't!
For example, Numerichs was my port of call for several parts for a Remington Mod788 I have. First order went through no problems. Put a second order in a year later & ITARs had hit. So no go, 'sorry but we will no longer be selling parts outside the USA'. Well that screwed that eh!

If i can find a supplier who will export, I then have postage fees which can often be more than half the value of the item purchased! So it gecomes a case of 'is it really worth it? Am I saving over buying locally?'

Sometimes I wish this country of mine would pull it's head out of it's backside & stop pandering to the idiots.

Anyway

[gunnie]

More importantly, yes please BAW! I will certainly grab some of your BAW's Ballistic Magic 257cal pills. I'm planning on coming up for the casting week-end, so can collect then. I'll bring the 25-20 up so we can slug the bore & then test your product.

I'll start researching loads for it & see what powder/s I need to buy. Is it better to gas check or just shoot the cast pills without & just keep the velocity low?

[Gunslinger1911]

A buddy of mine has an old Winchester and newer Marlin, I'm still looking for one.
Great little cartridge !
I got an NOE mould for a sweet 62g flat nose.
He has the same problem as everyone else - no brass.
I'll give Load X a shot.
cwtebay would you be comfortable posting their price ?

[Drm50]

I've had 25/20 & 32/20 for over 50yrs. I have a nice 53 Win and an turn of century Marlin 1894 rifle. I have plenty of brass and several boxes of factory loads. I've found that all the 25/20s I've owned do much better with cast boolits. I've loaded thousands of 25/20s over the years and don't bother to load Jackets anymore. I had both the Marlin 94 remakes and their accuracy didn't impress me.

[cwtebay]

A buddy of mine has an old Winchester and newer Marlin, I'm still looking for one.
Great little cartridge !
I got an NOE mould for a sweet 62g flat nose.
He has the same problem as everyone else - no brass.
I'll give Load X a shot.
cwtebay would you be comfortable posting their price ?I gave $65/100 in September. I believe that was with shipping. I purchased 3 or 400.

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[FISH4BUGS]

I was gifted a Savage Sporter 23b in 25-20. Perfect condition, but no magazine. While I was looking for an original magazine, I assembled my 25-20 reloading and casting goodies.
I have two moulds (plain base and gas check) and a hollow point mould gas check for it. I was able to purchase 300 brass formed from 32-20 from a man here that recently passed away. I also traded for some 200 25-20 headstamp brass so I should be all set.
I bought 400 Hornady 62 gr jacketed bullets. Those will be used for woodchucks. I also got some 400 or more cast powder coated bullets. I'll resize them and try them out.
I found an original magazine for $150 (!). It didn't feed too well so I took it to the gunsmith who redid the retainer spring in the rifle and now it works fine.
I am looking forward to shooting this plain Jane nice gun. Factory letter puts it at 1924 manufacture!
241915

[Gunslinger1911]

Thanks cwtebay ! That's up there, but everything else I've seen is higher.

[Gunslinger1911]

Had an email convo with Steve at Load X today. Super nice guy by the way !

$65 / 100 + shipping.

Real Starline 25-20 brass. They had a custom run made.

I didn't see anywhere on the web site where brass was available, but email confirmed they have it.

Good times guys !!!!

[cwtebay]

Had an email convo with Steve at Load X today. Super nice guy by the way !

$65 / 100 + shipping.

Real Starline 25-20 brass. They had a custom run made.

I didn't see anywhere on the web site where brass was available, but email confirmed they have it.

Good times guys !!!!I try not to lie!!! And Steve is an incredible resource. I amortized my brass investments out. I'm into it $0.055 right now counting losses / destruction. That ain't love, but that ain't bad.

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[Greebe]

I hear ya there BAW!
Picked up the Mod92 last week, and its an interesting item in its own right. So had begun the chase for brass. I tried the re-size from 32-20 as I have a bag of new Remington brass. Yeah it works, but prefer the brass to match correctly.
So my only option was factory ammo. Geez, sell you liver & first born! Order one box of Remington factory 85gn jacketed & began to prepare myself for the pain in the wallet. It still smarts when I remember the wallet coping a ***-whooping for $176 !!!!!
I then lucked onto a contact who managed to get me 3 boxes of factory at a far better price. But then again, thinking about it, $140 a box of 50 is still a belt to the face with a 1 pound hammer!

Oh well, at least I'll have a stash of 100 while I play around with the first 100.

I'll be chasing you up for some 257cal pills BAW.

$600 for only 200 cartridges? Holy cow, you could have reloaded for two lifetimes on that much money. I load 50 rounds for only $2.25, so with a little math, I can load 13,333 cartridges for the price you paid for 200. You really should reload these!

[Greebe]

BTW, I have a box of the Factory Remington 86gr .25-20 I would be happy to sell for $150 with "free shipping". [smilie=1::grin:

[ole_270]

Me too

[gunnie]

Well I only bought the one box at that price of $176. The intent was always to reload and I usually work on a minimum of 100rds or cases to start with.
Thankfully I have a good mate, who is a gun dealer, who has contacts, and he managed to score me three boxes of Remington factory ammo at cost. So I picked up 150rds for $315 rather than $528! Not good I know! That's another second hand Winchester just in ammo. Well at least I'll have my hundred to start with and the luxury or a spare 100rds just in case. Or if needs be I can always sell them off for a slight profit eh!

That's one of the luxuries you fellas in the USA have, more manufacturers, wider choice ergo lower prices due to competition. Here we don't have that luxury. There is really only the one brass maker, Bruce Bertram. He covers a wide range of different cartridges though the focus is the old or more obscure. There is Aust Defence Industries and they do produce brass that is sold via sporting suppliers, but the range is severely limited.

Anyways, now I can spend some quality time on the range, firing off 100 factory loads to see how the rifle shoots. Then, after collecting some of BAW's little 257cal gems, have even more fun working up some cast loads for the Model92.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Holy **** Gunnie, with that many cases I had better make you another 500 boolits! :kidding:

[john.k]

Little bit of exaggeration here ,I think.......In Qld,the customs/import form is free,and doesnt take long to come............its dealing with the US is the problem......anything rifle is ITAR,and as mentioned most wont risk a stretch in the federal pen if they make a mistake.........however with all the anti Iran,anti China,prohibited exports list ,it getting to the stage ,nothing can be exported from the US without a team of experts reviewing its status within a thousand different laws and regulations.

[gunnie]

BAW: well, it's gonna take me a little while to burn thru that first 100, well maybe not! LOL
A few hundred will be gold mate. Once I've learnt the casting dark arts from the master, I'll be able to cast some myself.

JK : that's it in a nutshell mate. It isn't this side, it's dealing with getting it out of the US.

[Dusty Ed]

I bought a 1894 Marlin from Buffalo Arms ,Chambered in 25/20 for $800.00 but it had 200 New Brass 200 bullets new dies and a Marbels tang sight.242212

[indian joe]

BAW: well, it's gonna take me a little while to burn thru that first 100, well maybe not! LOL
A few hundred will be gold mate. Once I've learnt the casting dark arts from the master, I'll be able to cast some myself.

JK : that's it in a nutshell mate. It isn't this side, it's dealing with getting it out of the US.

Theres craziness in both directions
I have a L C Smith side x side shottie and a couple 92's a bit different that woulda made good money in the US - thought I could cart one over on a trip and pay for my ticket - WRONG!! Australia is one of two countries on the planet that USA will not allow firearms entry from (that is for sale or import - I understand you can take one over to compete so long as you take it away again?) Owens told me this was some deal cooked up between howard and bush - put the kibosh on a neat little deal he (RO) had going where he bought up old 92's in Qld and sent em over to a mate stateside. (I still have the LCSmith - nice gun - specialty grade, single triger, ejectors,)

I brought 348 shells home in 2013 - declared on all paperwork - hadda have an ammunition import paper for Aussie customs and hadda have the original to hand in at the counter - gal that processed me had two brothers were shooters - her comment - "jeez! empty bullet shells, dunno who the fool was dreamed this idea up but we all get to wear it"

[Bad Ass Wallace]

That is why any old Winchester rifles in good condition in Australia sell for a premium. I have a '92 in 44/40 made in 1896 that is mint, and appears never to have been fired!

The best buy about 12 years ago was a pair of '92's in 38/40 that have consequetive serial numbers (only 4 digit) and made in 1892, the first year of production!

https://i.imgur.com/5cXpWqf.jpg

[uscra112]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/814730077

Happened to come up from a search for .25-20 Stevens

[9.3X62AL]

I bought a 1894 Marlin from Buffalo Arms ,Chambered in 25/20 for $800.00 but it had 200 New Brass 200 bullets new dies and a Marbels tang sight.242212

D-Ed......

I am another owner of the late-series Marlin 1894CL leverguns in 25/20 WCF. One caveat concerning some of these--shooters have noticed that many examples of this variant are "chambered long"--that is, the shoulder in the chambers are cut more deeply than SAAMI-standard. My example has this quirk as well. Brass life is very short if the reloader sets the shoulder back after each firing. I have come up with 2 options for dealing with this condition--

A) Use your full-length sizing die to "partial-full-length-resize" your fired brass, setting the die high enough in the press to not let the die's shoulder touch the case's shoulder, or.....

B) Scrounge up a 25 ACP sizer die, and use it to neck-size the brass. Every 4-5 firings, you will need to partial-F/L-size the case again.

About 8 years ago I attended a gun show in Boise, ID and found a guy selling a lot of 450 new/unfired 25/20 WCF cases, all in 38/357 cartridge boxes for $100. I didn't hesitate or dicker on price. At my age (64), that is likely a lifetime supply if I mind the sizing regimens as above.

[uscra112]

Um, a .25 ACP die will size the neck down too much, won't it? The .25 ACP bullet is .250 diameter, not .257

[Drm50]

Um, a .25 ACP die will size the neck down too much, won't it? The .25 ACP bullet is .250 diameter, not .257
Yes it sizes down and you loose case life by having to expand case mouth. The best way to solve over working the cases is to take a junk/odd die for a 257 cal cartridge and cut it off in a lathe. Used cut off wheel to part it and face off in lathe. Dies are some hard stuff. Then use the cut off die for neck sizing only. There have been universal neck sizing dies available but never saw one that would work on 25/20 because of shortness of brass.
On some of these projects you have to DIY a extended shell holder. I didn't have a 256win set at the time it may work for a 25/20 neck sizer but I never tried it.

[ofreen]

Or you can get one of these. It didn't cost that much, and this example doesn't overly resize the neck -

[DrDucati]

I've bought Remington ammo from Natchez when no one else had it (25-20). I've also bought cases from Load-X.

[historicfirearms]

I sent an email to starline asking if they planned on selling 25-20. Within a few hours they replied that Load-x would sell me some and they even shared the phone number. I'd still like to be able to buy it directly from starline but at least we have a source for it.

[uscra112]

Has Load-X commissioned a run from Starline with a Load-X headstamp?

[Three44s]

I got acquainted with the little stinker (25-20 Win) because a neighbor had one in 23B.

He approached me about loading for it so I bought the dies and a bunch of Remington unaired brass. That and the Speer 75 gr FN were available back then.

Well as usual, if it goes bang and shoots where you are pointing the thing I get hooked.

I was loading a moderate dose of 4198 and he did not like it. He wanted more steam. I thought I was doing him a favor at that level because ACCURACY was great but he was not as impressed.

I offered to buy the Savage bolt gun so he went to a gun shop and got brainwashed into thinking $400 was a fair price. I could not justify that. His wife gave it to a nephew of her’s and that settled that.

But that little stinker, the 25-20 Win kept talking to me over the years and after acquiring a couple of Contender frames I had finally had enough of waiting. I contacted Ed at EDsTC and bought a rifle barrel for $295. Go figure!

I have been scrounging some molds in 1/4 bore and one is likely a barn burner, an old Ideal with a HP pin in the 75 gr range as well as some others. I have not done any cast with it but been just messing with j words from Speer (87 gr TNT) because of the single shot status.

I have a lot of California ground squirrels running around here that deserve a nice 1/4” piercing beings they have illegally immigrated north to me but am too busy farming to attend to them.

Life!

Three44s

[Gunslinger1911]

Yes, Load X had a custom run of 25-20 by Starline. Even has "LX" on case head.

[Chev. William]

RE: Alternative Neck sizing die.
Lee Precision has in the Past "opened" up .25ACP Carbide Ring Sizing dies to custom diameters for me.
At the time they charged $28.00 for the Die plus $30.00 to open it to requested size plus shipping costs.
I have Had them do dies from .278" up to .300" for swaging use.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[truckjohn]

I have often thought that those of us living Back East should have given the Ultra-Louden-Boomer gun rag writers a good shot in the nose. 22 hornet and it's derivatives, 25/20, 32/20 and their derivatives, and 38 spl make absolutely perfect Back East Critter Getters in a long barrel break open rifle platform.

Load them up with a nice flat nose cast bullet and viola - a perfect hunting rifle for back east game on the typical small parcels and 10-acre wood lots we are likely to have access to here.

The 25/20 would shine in that duty.

[Bent Ramrod]

Hopelessly obsolete. I’ve got five of them, 3 SS, two WCF; I should know.

:mrgreen:

[OverMax]

If it isn't obsolete it should be. Not much wallop does the little 25 cartridge have. ~~ Well maybe for squirrels it's OK.

[ofreen]

If it isn't obsolete it should be. Not much wallop does the little 25 cartridge have. ~~ Well maybe for squirrels it's OK.

Not if you want to eat them.

[uscra112]

Not if you want to eat them.

When the .25-20 Stevens was a blackpowder cartridge with a M.V. around 1000 fps., it was considered the squirrel cartridge par excellence. The WCF is no different, unless you load it like the silly Loudenboomer fraternity would demand you do.

[moosemike]

If it isn't obsolete it should be. Not much wallop does the little 25 cartridge have. ~~ Well maybe for squirrels it's OK.

Great Wild Turkey cartridge.

[rbuck351]

The 25/20 fits a slot that has few if any modern rounds in it's class. Loaded to 22lr speed with a 75gr boolet it will kill like a 22lr could only wish for at about the same cost per round. Loaded to 2000 fps it makes the 22mag lame in comparison at half or less cost per round. Recoil is very light, noise level is low, range (125/150yds) on up to dog sized critters, and doesn't destroy hides on fur bearers. Other than hard to find brass and ammo, what's not to like?

I have two, a Win 92 and a Savage 25, and have managed to scrounge several hundred cases here and there. I use one or the other instead of rimfire 22s for hunting. I believe one of the new single shot rifles in 25/20 would sell well if ammo were available.

[uscra112]

The 25/20 fits a slot that has few if any modern rounds in it's class. Loaded to 22lr speed with a 75gr boolet it will kill like a 22lr could only wish for at about the same cost per round. Loaded to 2000 fps it makes the 22mag lame in comparison at half or less cost per round. Recoil is very light, noise level is low, range (125/150yds) on up to dog sized critters, and doesn't destroy hides on fur bearers. Other than hard to find brass and ammo, what's not to like?

I have two, a Win 92 and a Savage 25, and have managed to scrounge several hundred cases here and there. I use one or the other instead of rimfire 22s for hunting. I believe one of the new single shot rifles in 25/20 would sell well if ammo were available.

Yup. I used one on groundhogs for several years when I lived in Michigan. Load to 1000 fps. and it's great for squirrels, and doesn't alert the neighborhood. Load a 60-75 grain gas gas checked bullet to 1800 fps and it's a turkey round par excellence. If your gun is strong enough, load a 60 grain JSP over 12 grains of Lil'Gun and you'll get 2400 fps., which is .22 Hornet territory but with a much heavier bullet. Quite capable of coyotes out to 150 yards or so, and marginally capable of small deer in the right hands.

Cast bullet reloads are cheap - typical charge of powder for light cast bullet loads is 4 to 6 grains. On paper you typically get around 100 bullets per pound of lead. Can't beat that with a stick.

Historically, the only thing that put the .25-20 in the shade was the coming of smokeless .22 rimfire ammo, which stole the squirrel-hunting market. .22 rimfire was cheaper, for them as wasn't willing and competent to load their own. You can see this in the sales of the old Stevens 44 rifles, which I've been tracking. Up to WW1, .25-20s were as common as .22s.

[EDG]

Why? It is not a big game round.


If it isn't obsolete it should be. Not much wallop does the little 25 cartridge have. ~~ Well maybe for squirrels it's OK.

[cwtebay]

Why? It is not a big game round.It was often used as an everything round in days gone by. The largest typical whitetail was killed with it, and I know it's killed its share of other big game in the past 120+ years. No, don't infer that it is "enough gun" for those applications.
I'm also certain that one could make a case for obsolescence when its performance has been surpassed by newer cartridges, but I don't see that happening with a number of rounds that "should be obsolete".

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[uscra112]

I think one problem the .25-20 WCF faced was that it was so heavily marketed by Winchester for their lever-action rifles, none of which would ever stand a chance in accuracy competitions. Same is true of the .30-30, which can be very, very accurate in single-shot and bolt-action rifles.

I've read that the Inuit used the .25-20 for seals, and the odd polar bear when circumstances required.

[Drm50]

25/20 & 32/20 were meat guns for a lot of people. Stump hunters killed a lot of deer with both of these. Not good for jump shooting or long range but 40-60yd is easy deer kill. Guys use 300mag for same thing and swear by them. I have only old originals and shot only cast at the old velocity levels. Shot many groundhogs with both. I shot them a lot more than usual doing 22 ammo panic.

[Good Cheer]

Growing up, there was a big six pointer mount on the wall that Mom got with a 32-20.
We loved taking it down and moving the head to make it look around a doorway to give the dog nervous fits.
Uh, when Mom was at work.[smilie=l:

[moosemike]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7em6iumITdM&t=301s

[Rick B]

Great 25-20 bullet being offered in Group Buy Discussion. M&P Brass HP Mould. One option is a set of two cavity sized blocks with 3 cavities. Two Dogs is the Honcho. It’s a great design and sure to bring any 25-20 WCF back to life
Rick

[ofreen]

When the .25-20 Stevens was a blackpowder cartridge with a M.V. around 1000 fps., it was considered the squirrel cartridge par excellence. The WCF is no different, unless you load it like the silly Loudenboomer fraternity would demand you do.

I don't know who the silly loudenboomer fraternity is, but true, anything can be loaded down. I can attest that a 257420 at a muzzle velocity of 1800 fps turns a ground squirrel inside out inside 100 yards, indistinguishable from a .223 hit.