45-70 bp loads and lube

[TaylorS]

I have asked several questions here on this cartridge and loading bp for it finally ordered some powder and a wad punch, have molds, soft alloy, tools handy. but all I have for lube is the Lyman gunk that came with the lube sizer some wax toilet rings and some moly grease that I was going to use to make my own. In a previous thread someone had said bacon grease, maybe jokingly but what else can or should be used to make my own. I’ll probably pan lube and cookie cut these bullets.

Shooting a Henry H010 if it matters.


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[bustermchooter]

The bacon grease wasn’t a joke


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[Winger Ed.]

Hope you handle the .45-70 addiction better than some of us, and your family doesn't schedule a intervention.

I've brewed low tech, home made lube over the years.
I wouldn't use bacon grease since it can turn rancid if you don't use it for awhile.

What I've done in years past was gather up and melt all the kid's broken crayons and some old candles.
Melt it down and keep thinning it with high temp disc brake grease---- the old can with some dirt in it will do fine.
And maybe a bump of good quality motor oil if you don't have quite enough grease.

I never used it for those eye watering screamers- just in things going under about 14-1500 fps.
When ya fire it,,,, yeah,,,,,, it stinks, but it worked OK.

[Ozark mike]

For a bp lube you want non petroleum products like crisco lard beeswax olive oil maybe castor seed oil if it will mix any naturally occurring oils or wax i use a mix of crisco beeswax in my guns. You can use petroleum products if you like scrubbing more but Im lazy your mileage may vary

[Castaway]

Your toilet ring may or may not be bees wax. Suggest you to to Hobby Lobby or a similar store and get a known commodity. Many effective lubes out there and no one is more right than anyone else. Personally, I’ve been using Garo Feo’s lube for about three years and like it

[TaylorS]

I’m sure the wax rings are some oil based wax I’ll look around for some beeswax to give the lube some structure. Though crisco might be hard enough to set in the groves and a dab of some cooking oil from the wife we might be cooking something here. Any ideas on proportions? I’m guessing a softer lube is required for bp but how will I know when I’ve done made it to soft?


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[Ozark mike]

50/50 crisco for my climate most of the time you're going to have to do a little experimenting but the 50/50 mix is a good start crisco beeswax

[Ozark mike]

If your doing bpcr pan lube and use grease cookie if you notice hard fouling. if bp revolver w RBs pour the melted concoction down the bbl with the other side blocked and make lube sticks then cut them in 1/4 inch cookies put between powder and ball. I've never had contaminated powder if I mix it right

[country gent]

I use the Emmett's Improved mx for BP. Its worked well for me pan lubing with a cake cutter.
Emmert Improved Regular Emmerts
50% beeswax 50% beeswax
40% Crisco unsalted shortening 40% unsalted Crisco shortening
5% canola or olive oil 10% canola or olive oil
5% anhydrous Lanolin

In a double boiler melt beeswax Crisco and oil together when liquid add lanolin if desired. I cook and stir for 5 -8 mins. A small drop of murphy's oil soap helps to blend the ingredients. I use and recommend the double boiler as it reduces chances of scorching the ingredients and lowers chances of fires melting flammable ingredients

[Jeff Michel]

Unsalted lard and beeswax 50/50. Add more beeswax if you need it stiffer.

[rfd]

bp lube is critical, so do it right, use a real bp lube that's been proven.

buy some SPG lube and be done with it.

or if you have a need to DIY, mix up some gato feo by double boiler melting (by weight) 1 part mutton tallow (dixie gun works), 1 part paraffin canning wax (gulf), 1/2 part pure beeswax. pour into milk or juice carton to solidify.

there are any number of ways of lubing bullets, i prefer dip lubing ... or pan lubing.

[jednorris]

Why take a chance and start off on the wrong foot. Use S.P.G. lube especially designed for Black Powder and relax.

[TaylorS]

I’m not sure about everyone else but in the summer it gets upwards of 120 and in the winter in the teens. I try not to do Much in either extreme but time shootin is time shootin. I may buy some spg later but for now I’m gonna try and home brew everything I can.


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[rfd]

SPG has a new hi-temp formula.

with gato feo, increase the beeswax and/or paraffin to increase its resistance to higher ambient temperatures.

[Castaway]

The reason I use Gato Feo’s lube is because it works in Florida’s hot summers. I’ve not found a need to adjust the ratios because of the heat. Never found lube migration due to the heat. Cold ain’t no problem!

[Ozark mike]

As s far as heat and cold I'd image those store bought lubes could cause problems in the winter in northern climates it can get as low as -50 up here and even colder in ak but I'd bet there's not going to be many hunting in those conditions

[Gunlaker]

A tub of SPG or DGL is pretty cheap. I shoot thousands of rounds of BP per year and I buy 2lbs of lube a other year. That is about $40 per year in lube compared to well over $1500 a year in powder. Lube is cheap :-)

Chris.

[EDG]

Bacon is a salt cured meat. If you get salty bacon grease it may be a bad joke in terms of corrosion of everything steel that it contacts.


The bacon grease wasn’t a joke


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[Fisher]

For interest sake, how good is the Layman Black powder lube ?

[MOA]

I have asked several questions here on this cartridge and loading bp for it finally ordered some powder and a wad punch, have molds, soft alloy, tools handy. but all I have for lube is the Lyman gunk that came with the lube sizer some wax toilet rings and some moly grease that I was going to use to make my own. In a previous thread someone had said bacon grease, maybe jokingly but what else can or should be used to make my own. I’ll probably pan lube and cookie cut these bullets.

Shooting a Henry H010 if it matters.


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Do it the easy way since your going to pan lube to start with. Hobby lobby sells a pound block for about 15 dollars. Wally sells a 3 pound can of salt free Crisco for about 5 dollars. Double boiler a pound of Crisco with the pound of beeswax from hobby lobby and add a half cup of olive oil to it stirring all the time and pour it into the pan your boots are standing up in. Leave extra lube in pan for next time but cover the top to keep lube free of debris. Done deal.

[Carrier]

Bees wax and olive oil has worked really well for me in 45/70.

[Washington1331]

There are a lot of good comments in regards to lube. Assuming that you're using real black powder, instead of one of the substitutes I'll be the 22nd to recommend that you really do want to stay with a natural fat based lube. I've personally have had very good luck with a modified Emmett's lube in the Virginia summer heat. I go by weight when making my lube. 50% bee's wax, 20% unsalted lard, 20% Crisco, 10% olive oil. I used to go with 40% by weight of Crisco, but I found that my fouling stayed softer by adding a portion of unsalted lard. Ideally the melting point of the lard is between 97 and 113 degrees F. The melting point of Crisco is 115-120 degrees F. Tallow is good too, but can more expensive than the other two, at around $16.00 for two pounds.

If my memory serves me of Spencer Wolf's book on the trapdoor rifle (I think it was this book) the US Government used a mixture of Bee's Wax and Japan Wax as the primary lubricant for their boolits. Japan Wax which is actually a plant fat has a melting point of around 159 degrees F, which was probably chosen so that quartermasters didn't need to worry about storage conditions during the Indian Wars. I've been looking for a supplier to test out this lube, but all the venders I find are cost prohibited or only sell synthetic japan wax.

Also if you're using real black powder the granulation of the powder you're using is going to affect the hardness of the fouling that forms in your barrel. From my personal experience, if you're going to be shooting the 45-70 with FFFg granulation powder you're young to want a good amount of lube to keep the fouling soft.

The question of how much lube to use is dependent on a couple of criteria. How much shooting between cleanings to you intend to perform? Are you going for full bore loads for hunting or just having fun at the range plinking? If you're only going to be firing a few rounds, like sighting in for hunting season and actually hunting you can get away with using less lube.

When I take my old trapdoor rifle to the range for some fun, I usually make a bunch of rounds loaded to trapdoor carbine specifications. These rounds are only for fun and high volume shooting. I put 53 grains by weight of FFFg goex black powder into the case. I then put a small piece of wax paper down on top of the powder and use a pencil to push it down as far as I can in the case, you can also use a card wad, but I'm cheap. I take some of my lube, melt it in a double boiler and pour it into the bottom of a cake pan to make a cake about a quarter of an inch thick. I then let the cake cool to room temperature. Once cool I take the charged case and push the mouth into the cake and punch out a cookie. The cookie should remain wedged in the case mouth, I then put a card wad on top of the lube cookie and use my compression die to seat it home. You may find the cookie and wad slides back up the case a little due to air compression, but don't worry the boolit will sort all that out. I then plop a Lee 405HB lubed with the same lube as the cookie on top and compress it down to the point where it's sitting on the powder. I'll have to look up the actual length over all, as it is escaping me right now.

I finish it off with a nice crimp out of my lee factory crimp die. With these low power loads you can get away with an alloy that is nearly pure lead, with just enough tin in the mix to help fill out the mold.

I've shot the above all day (I want to say 60 rounds) without cleaning my rifle or having any noticeable degradation in accuracy at 100 yards. It leaves a nice lube star at the end of the muzzle after each shot.

Sorry for the length, I got carried away. Best of luck to you, just a word of warning... once you shoot black powder in the 45-70, you'll realize that smokeless is just a passing fad.

[bustermchooter]

Bacon is a salt cured meat. If you get salty bacon grease it may be a bad joke in terms of corrosion of everything steel that it contacts.

OP said it could have been a joke he didn’t know. I know it can be I’ve done it just to see. I read a thread describing its use in muzzle loaders and a black powder loaded 45-70 for me was not a far stretch to test the concept. As far as salts being deposited in the barrel before the advent of non corrosive primers deposits left by the primers attracted moisture and thus led to corrosion much in the same manner.

Can you use bacon grease? Yes. Would I recommend it for use? No, to many better alternatives. Sometimes it’s fun to try things just cause you can. As a side note the smell of the huge smoke cloud made me hungry for breakfast.


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[country gent]

While bacon is smoked and salt cured the grease isn't bad from being from bacon its the salts and curing that contaminate it. Unsalted lard is pig fat that's been removed before being cured and rendered to purify. Use unsalted lard. The draw back to lard is the same as using it for tapping in the shop. It will go rancid and has a powerful smell when it does. So if using lard don't mix any large batches.

[Lead pot]

Nothing wrong with unsalted lard or crisco you get at Walmart if you render it out more to make it a hard tallow.
A good properly rendered tallow you can seat it right on the powder without contaminating it and it makes a very good lube that keeps the fouling soft to hold accuracy shooting with out using fouling control shooting the revolvers loaded with black powder.

[MOA]

My hobby lobby beeswax and Crisco. Olive oil added after the melt was completed.

240519

[beltfed]

I would not DARE to do my lube mixing on the kitchen stove//….
beltfed/arnie

[rfd]

I would not DARE to do my lube mixing on the kitchen stove//….
beltfed/arnie

this is another area where gato feo excels - no stink, no smoke.

in fact, only the very faint, sweet aroma of the beeswax infiltrates the air. delightful.

[MOA]

this is another area where gato feo excels - no stink, no smoke.

in fact, only the very faint, sweet aroma of the beeswax infiltrates the air. delightful.

You plan your operation down to which side of the stove you boil from and where you lay out your molds and stirring tools. You stay careful and you make no mistakes.

https://i.postimg.cc/13vH0jVH/2019-02-23-17-51-57-Barry-Spooner-The-days-project-Rendering.png (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/hjBSDCP9/20190221-140338.jpg (https://postimg.cc/Mc9ktmBT)

https://i.postimg.cc/nLXBJhSy/20190222-091021.jpg (https://postimg.cc/7Cyf1wk9)

https://i.postimg.cc/G2zc6W3Z/20190216-082339.jpg (https://postimg.cc/2bbRZXZw)

https://i.postimg.cc/dt1JVZvS
/20190222-104236.jpg (https://postimg.cc/9zv6xMDG)

https://i.postimg.cc/R0hyxwBv/20190222-090329.jpg (https://postimg.cc/xkrtKJ8Z)

https://i.postimg.cc/BvzyStSH/20190222-105824.jpg (https://postimg.cc/t1hDDqV4)


Now, I'm all set up to pan lube with my beeswax/Crisco/Olive oil muffins when the time comes. Meanwhile I just store them where they stay nice and cool in the closet.

[rfd]

by weight ...
1 part mutton tallow
1 part paraffin wax
1/2 part beeswax

double boiler melt, pour into a cleaned out milk container, cut into cakes, dip lube, enjoy.

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[TaylorS]

Powder came in today I’ll have lube made by next weekend. Just need to build my cookie cutter and empty the pot with the harder alloy and cast some softy’s.


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[TaylorS]

I would not DARE to do my lube mixing on the kitchen stove//….
beltfed/arnie

I’m not a smart man but I’m not stupid. I finally bought me a hot plate!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190502/52da8643f01e68cf046279ec1470f96a.jpg


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[MOA]

As you can see I use a very large set of stock pots for my double boiler and a lodge griddle for my "hot plate" with the tea pot. I do all the moving of liquid beeswax and other ingredients away from the stove. All pouring is performed on other side of kitchen. All electric elements, no flames involved.

[TaylorS]

So first round out with bp is in blue the red one is the one 457191 that found the board loaded with smokeless

Load was
457193 avg wt 401.3
56gr ol eynsford 1f
.025 milk carton wad
And a cci 200 lr primerhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190504/14a1cb80cbaf5e9b8854c4eed7b6f5f1.jpg


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