32 S&W and 32HR mag pressure

[bigdog454]

What are the max pressures for 32 S&W and 32HR mag?
My loading manuals don't giv that info. other cartridges are given but not those.
I am using Unique powder and H&r revolvers for these. I also have the Ruger single 7 so I know they are safe loads there.
BD

[RED BEAR]

The 32 hr is 21,000 psi the the 32 sw long is 15,000 . I may be off but i believe that the 32 sw is 12,000 psi. Hope this helps. If you look at alliant data they list data for unique that is above most if not all manuals.

[bigdog454]

Thanks that is what I was looking for.
BD

[Larry Gibson]

SAAMI MAP for the 32 S&W is 17,000 psi. The lower psi for the 32 S&WL is lower in deference to the blowback Walther GSP target pistol. The 32 H&R is held low in deference to the H&R revolver. The Ruger revolvers are much stronger. Tested loads are listed in an earlier thread.

[RED BEAR]

I realize ruger makes a strong gun but i will not over load any cartridge . If you can't o what you need with a cartridge then go up in power not over load it.

[bigdog454]

I am looking for max accuracy, but wanted some guidelines as to pressure levels. Picked up a nice 32 S&WL solid frame H&R revolver and want to keep it nice but would like to get some accuracy from it so my wife can shoot it. She dosen't like the 38's she tried, maybe she'l like a 32.
BD

[Larry Gibson]

I don't make it a practice to "over load" any cartridge either. I do make it a practice to load some cartridges to their potential in the fire arm they are to be used in. That is common practice in reloading. It is done with many cartridges.

Here is the SAAMI standard for the 32 H&R along with the standards for other 32 cal handgun cartridges. I'm not exactly sure where "21,000" psi came about as the "standard" for the 32 H&R but it is not a SAAMI standard. Perhaps it is the "standard" for the soft framed old H&R revolvers? As you can see there is no SAAMI "established" MAP for the 32 H&R because it has not been evaluated (NE). So what then establishes an "over load" for the 32 H&R? I developed my loads by actually measuring the psi to determine what is safe for the revolver I use them in.

Anyway, with my magnum level loads for my Ruger 32 H&R revolver I load the 32 H&R to it's potential for that revolver. As I've mentioned before I do not shoot a lot of these loads as I really don't need to most of the time.....same as I no longer shoot full magnum level loads in my 357, 41 and 44 magnums most of the time........

(N/E = Not Established) Velocity Transducer Pressure (fps)
(Solid test barrel, psi/100)(1)

Nominal Nominal Maximum
Mean Mean Maximum Maximum Probable
Bullet Instrumental Instrumental Average Probable Sample
Weight @ 15’ @ 15’ Pressure Lot Mean Mean
Cartridge (gr.) Vented Bbl.(2) Test Bbl. (MAP) (MPLM) (MPSM)

32 H&R Magnum 85 N/E 1,120 N/E N/E N/E
95 N/E 1,020
32 North American
Arms 60 N/E 1,220 239 247 258
32 Short Colt 80 N/E 750 175 181 189
32 S&W 85-88 N/E 700 170 175 183
32 S&WL 98 N/E 775 150 155 162
327 Fed Magnum 115 N/E 1,535 450 464 485

Also as I said before I am not recommending that anyone use the loads I developed. I only answer the question and give actual data that is tested for the firearms in question for possible use. Everyone is free to their own choices as to use the data or not.

[bigdog454]

Thanks again. Time to get reloading and experimenting, now that I have some more guidelines.
BD

[RED BEAR]

Hey i just love my 32's have a shelf full of the old 32 top break 32sw's had to make larger grip on a couple for wife she loves them in single action she has weak hands so doesn't like the double action trigger pull on the old guns. Have several sw longs that i really like to. Be careful once you catch the 32 bug it's hard to get rid of. Are you shooting the sw or the sw long?

[bigdog454]

Caught the bug. couple of 32-20's. a new marlin, a police positive, 327 ruger single seven, 32 HR in 32hr mag, a couple of 32 S&W Longs; that's all so far.
BD

[bigdog454]

OH! forgot a coupel of 32 ACP'sand a couple of those Russian, what are they 765X38 or somthing like that. Does that mean I got the bug?
BD

[RED BEAR]

Yea i am pretty sure you got it. My wife actually asked if they stoped making the other calibers. I watch the auctions and buy the ones that need repair. I really enjoy fixing them i get quite a few that someone has taken apart and put it back together wrong.

[Larry Gibson]

I recently inquired at several LGSs regarding any 32 S&W or 32 Short colt cartridges they may have laying around. I ended up with several sample of 32 S&W of various makes of unknown vintage. The purpose for the acquisitions was to pressure test them. I pressure tested them a couple days ago and had interesting results. I also ended up with full box of Western 32 Short Colt which I’ve not tested yet.

The test firearm was a Contender With a 10” barrel chambered in 32 H&R Magnum and a strain gauge affixed over the chamber at the prescribed SAAMI location for pressure measurement. The gauge was connected to the Oehler m43 and its attendant software in a laptop. I was able to measure the pressure and muzzle velocity of the assorted 32 S&W cartridges.

As a reference:
32 H&R Magnum
Federal 32 H&R 85 gr LSWC factory ammunition ran 1217 fps (987 fps out of 6 ½” Ruger SS) at 18,200 psi.
A Lee TL 90 gr SWC over 3.2 gr Bullseye ran 1128 fps at 16,500 psi

32 S&WL;
Federal factory WCs; 12,000 psi
Lee TL 90 gr SWC over 2.8 gr Bullseye ran 1060 fps at 16,800 psi (880 fps out of my M30 S&W with 3” barrel)
Lee TL 90 gr SWC over 3.2 gr Bullseye ran 1165 fps at 19,300 psi.
98 gr cast SWC over 2.5 gr Bullseye ran 944 fps at 15,000 psi.
98 gr cast SWC over 4 gr Unique ran 1101 at 19,000 psi

The results of the 32 S&W factory ammunition;

Winchester Western 86 gr Lubaloy LRN; 786 fps at 18,900 psi
Winchester W-W; 727 fps at 15,300 psi
Winchester [WRA]; 729 fps at 16,300 psi
Remington [R-P]; 676 fps at 14,200 psi
Federal [F C] 86 gr FMJRN; 833 fps at 17,900 fps
Winchester [WRA] 86 gr FMJRN; 780 fps at 14,000 psi

The average pressures for the 32 S&W ran from a low of 14,000 psi to 18,900 psi. The 32 S&W is presumed to be a lower pressure cartridge than the 32 S&WL because it is the shorter cartridge. That presumption is probably based off similar cartridges such as the 38 SPL/357 Mag, the 44 SPL/44 Mag, etc. Thus that presumptions has always led to the belief that using the 32 S&W in the old H&R and Iver Johnson top break 32 S&WL chambered revolvers was “safer” because of the less psi of the 32 S&W cartridge…….we see from the actual psi of numerous 32 S&W factory loads that is not the case……..

I'm not saying 32 S&W ammunition is unsafe in 32 S&WL chamber top break revolvers just saying there's not a lot of difference, in pressure, between the two cartridges as is thought.

[rking22]

Very interesting data, thank you for investing the effort to generate and report. I wonder if the pressure would be even higher in an actual 32sw chamber than the 32hr? Seems the extra length may act as “freeborn”. Any thoughts along those lines, Mr. Gibson?

[Larry Gibson]

Considering the extra length of the 32 H&R chamber give an almost identical free bore as do cylinder throats I don't consider that much of a variation. The barrel/cylinder gap is probably more of a pressure reducer as such. However, given the fast burning powders the pressure peaks while the bullet is still in the cylinder.

Also note the psi of the factory 32 H&R in comparison.....The shorter cartridges probably generate slightly more psi in a test barrel chambered for them so you are essentially correct in the shorter cartridges would probably give higher psi's. Additionally my testing of shorter cartridges in other chambers such as in the 357, 44 Magnum and 45 Colt chambers indicates the pressures measured are general consistent with what is expected.

[RED BEAR]

Thanks i never would have expected the sw to be that high. Especially since there are so many top break black powder guns out there. But your velocity readings seem to be right in line. Not sure why there would be any concern about shooting them top break swl ' s as most of guns made for the sw were top break.

[bigdog454]

hum, great job.

[RED BEAR]

You know this really got me wondering. I misspoke earlier that is just a tad hot for the sw . I found pressure listings all over the map lee list it in the sub 10000 range speer list it at 12000 i have also found the pressure listed up to 17000 for the 32sw. It also seems that saami doesn't list pressure for the 32sw not sure if this is accurate but any data i can find doesn't show them listing this caliber. The loads listed i can find run from 590 to 700 fps. I was really curious bout this as i have 7 of these little guns and just love shooting them. I always keep my loads low because a couple were black powder guns and don't want to accidentally shoot anything strong in them.

[Jeff Michel]

Another misconception bites the dust..... Thanks Mr. Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

SAAMI Lists the MAP for the 32 S&W at 17,000 psi (transducer).

However, a lot of the older 32 S&W ammo was loaded before that MAP was established. It's also why the load data for the 32 S&WL seemed to be "dumbed down" after Speer #8 & #9 manuals along with Lyman's #3 manual were published. It is because those loads were developed prior to SAAMI establishing the MAP at 15,000 psi in deference to the blow back European match pistols using WC loads. After SAAMI established that MAP the loads were dropped back to conform. Loads for use in solid frame S&W and Ruger revolvers are not restricted to those low end psi's.

However, if either loads for the 32 S&W or the S&WL are to be used in the older top break Iver Johnsons, the H&Rs or the S&Ws then I would restrict them to loads of around 15,000 psi such as the afore mentioned and tested load of; 98 gr cast SWC over 2.5 gr Bullseye ran 944 fps (10" Contender barrel) at 15,000 psi. .

[RED BEAR]

Larry where do you get the saami data did you have to subscribe or pay for it i cannot find there actual data first hand.

[Walks]

I bought my Ruger SSM 5 1/2" for My Kids to graduate from a Super-Single-Six 5 1/2" .22LR to prep for Cowboy Shooting. Don't think I've put more then 300 H&R rds through it in 30yrs. Just the .32 S&W Long.

But 4 of My Cowboy Shooter Buddy's have/had .32 S&W Long as the caliber for their Pocket Pistols. So I got LOTS of brass to reload for EVERYBODY. And then We all bought DAVIS Derringers in .32 H&R Mag for that Sidematch gun.
One 2cav Lyman #313226 to cast for EVERYBODY'S Guns.

I even bought a SAECO 100gr SWC for reloading .32 H&R Mag. Cast 100 bullets. Loaded them in .32 Long cases and never cast another. Greased up mold HEAVILY and haven't touched it since.

But I bought my 1st Lee 6cav #311-93-1R. Cast a bunch of Bullets for My Buddy's old COLT Police Positive in .32S&W Long.

Still haven't reloaded a blasted case in 10yrs. But I have 500 once-fired and 100 new .32 Short & Wimpy cases.
Maybe 300 H&R Mag cases and 1000 plus .32 S&W Long cases.

Might load up some for My Grandmother's S&W LemonSqueezer in .32Short&Wimpy. It's in 95% Condition with Factory Medallion Mother of Pearl Grips.

She carried that little Revolver from the late 1920's until She passed in 1988. In a cloth bag in her purse, on the nightstand when she slept and in the end table drawer next to her seat on the couch. And on a special stand on the edge of the kitchen sink.

And BOY HOWDY !!! did I hi-jack this thread.

Sorry

[Wayne Smith]

Yeah, but it's a wonderful hijack!

[Hickory]

After a sensible person gets over magnumitis, they are drawn to the 32's for the pure joy of shooting.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry where do you get the saami data did you have to subscribe or pay for it i cannot find there actual data first hand.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.3-CFP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

That will get you the SAAMI standards for pistol/revolver cartridges (both CUP and transducer) along with a wealth of other technical information on SAAMI testing and procedures.

[RED BEAR]

Thanks larry i appreciate it. Yea i just fell in love with 32's my favorite is the sw its really not wimpy and i have carried it on occasions.

[mattw]

I

I even bought a SAECO 100gr SWC for reloading .32 H&R Mag. Cast 100 bullets. Loaded them in .32 Long cases and never cast another. Greased up mold HEAVILY and haven't touched it since.

Sorry

That Saeco 325 is really a good mould at 95 grains, I cast a bunch for my 631 and it really performs. Now if you are talking about the 326, I do not own that one but would be interested in one if you do not like yours.

These are the 325.
241234

[bigdog454]

I can't seem to find anyone who makes a 32 double action revolver with a barrel longer then 2 inches , new production, I would like to find a reasonably pried 32. I found a charter arms 32 but they only come in 2 inch.
I'll look for a good used small frame double action 32 at the next show.
BD

[mattw]

I would really suggest that you go out of your way to find a 631 or GP100 in 32 for a good single/double action revolver.

[Tracy]

I can't seem to find anyone who makes a 32 double action revolver with a barrel longer then 2 inches , new production, I would like to find a reasonably pried 32. I found a charter arms 32 but they only come in 2 inch.
I'll look for a good used small frame double action 32 at the next show.
BD

Ruger makes the SP101 as a 4 inch with adjustable sights, in .327 Federal. Model 5773.
You can shoot .32 S&W, S&W Long and H&R Mag in a .327 Fed.

[Gus Youmans]

Tracy,

You missed a couple of models. Ruger also makes a fixed sight SP101 with a three inch barrel, LCR with a 1 7/8 inch barrel, and the GP100 with four, five, and six inch barrels. I have one of each except for the LCR and the five inch GP100. The three inch SP101 balances better than any of the other models but I wish Ruger offered it in with an adjustable sight.

Gus Youmans

[Tracy]

Tracy,

You missed a couple of models. Ruger also makes a fixed sight SP101 with a three inch barrel, LCR with a 1 7/8 inch barrel, and the GP100 with four, five, and six inch barrels. I have one of each except for the LCR and the five inch GP100. The three inch SP101 balances better than any of the other models but I wish Ruger offered it in with an adjustable sight.

Gus Youmans

You're right, Gus. I just offered up the one that seemed to most closely match what the OP was asking for.
I have a Single Seven and really like it, and now that 4" SP is calling my name!

[Gus Youmans]

Tracy,

You won't go wrong with a four inch SP101. I own seven Ruger .32s and the four inch SP101 is the most accurate of the bunch. When developing loads I mount the guns in a Ransom Rest and shoot five, five shot groups and calculate an average. Most loads from that gun average less than two inches at 25 yards and many get down into the 1.25 - 1.5 range. I have developed loads for the .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R, and .327 Federal cases and cannot discern any real accuracy difference between the three cases with loads appropriate for the respective cases. However, the guns seems to like for the .32 S&W Long loads to be pushed near or just above recommended max loads for that cartridge. The .32 S&W Long and .32 H&R seem to have a preference for faster powders such as 231 and bullseye and all my .32s really shine with the RCBS 98 grain SWC bullet.


Gus Youmans


Gus Youmans

[onelight]

The 4” sp101 is a sweet shooter the cylinder is long enough to crimp all the bullets I have tried in the crimp grove , and it shoots well with 327 , 32S&W long and 32 H&R I got the 327 first and liked it so much I traded into a 357 to go with it.

[Jedman]

I can't seem to find anyone who makes a 32 double action revolver with a barrel longer then 2 inches , new production, I would like to find a reasonably pried 32. I found a charter arms 32 but they only come in 2 inch.
I'll look for a good used small frame double action 32 at the next show.
BD

I once owned just the revolver you are looking for. It was a H&R double action 4" in 32 S&W long.
I always fired it single action and it had a good trigger. It was probably the most accurate pistol I have ever owned even better than my Rugers in 22 LR.
Like a young dumb kid I traded it for something else because I didn't reload for it and ammo was quite expensive it seemed. Now they seem hard to find like you said, they made millions of them but people seldom let them go once they find how nice they shoot.

Jedman

[bigdog454]

Found one. A H&R 732 in 32 S&WL, now all I have to do is work up a good load. I'll stare with Larrys suggestion of 2.8 gr and go from there, I have 4 different configurations of 90 to 98 gr. bullets to work with, so it should br fun.
BD

[gpidaho]

BD: Good to hear that you've found yourself a H&R 732. I'm pretty fond of 32's myself I own a 732 that I probably paid a few dollars more for than it was worth (Cabella's) it has a 4" barrel. One of the hand guns in my safe that I'm real proud of is a Colt Army Special in 32-20 WCF and it has a 6" barrel. I have "the bug" bad enough that I own six different moulds for 32cal. handguns. Saeco 326, Lee 311-93-1R and 314-90-SWC the Noe 313-89-WC BF4 and the Accurate 31-090V and 311125D. Yup, caught the bug. Gp

[mattw]

Nice list of moulds, I just got a 2C Lyman 313445 and have boolits ready but ran out of time to try them... My goto is the Saeco 325 or the NOE 90 grain WC.

[bigdog454]

ya! I got the bug, looking for that 732, I found a ss single seven in 327 that followed me home and a blackhawk buckeye in 32 s&w with the 32-20 extra cylinder, and another h&r snubbi in 32h&r mag. So that 732 cost me $$.
BD

[gpidaho]

BD: That's a very nice group of 32 handguns. That Blackhawk buckeye is a revolver I'd love to own. As I already own a 32 S&W and a 32-20 I would like to add either a 32 H&R or a 327 Federal. Using only cast bullets do you believe there is any performance to be gained with the 327 that can't be had with the 32H&R. With my group of moulds I can't see buying any jacketed bullets. Gp

[bigdog454]

In my opinion, I would choose a good 38+p or 357 over the 327. It's a good revolver with a lot of power for its size, but LOUD. If you want to shoot the 32 SW, or 32 mag and have the oppertunity to change cartridges then go for the 327; or if you just need to buy another revolver to say I got one, (my case), go for it. I had all of the 38 cal's covered so when a good buy came along on a 327 I dropped my dime. I really do like the 32 H&R mag, and the 32 S&W is just a lot of fun.
BD

[gpidaho]

BD: Yes, I'm pretty well set up with 38's and 357's myself. I would have room for a S&W Air weight for a pocket carry. Rifles and handguns in 35cal. just seem to work so well. Gp