.678 RB & .69 Cal Minie range report....

[dsh1106]

Well sort of, both of the outdoor ranges neat me have been closed, because of an increasing amount of liberal pressure on the local government.....

Anyway, I ended up at the indoor range. Found out I can't shoot the 100 yard range without a scope, so i shot at 27 ish yards.

Both loads hit at POA, and at that range the wads are within an inch or two of the projectile.

I was able to keep 10 rounds .678 RB in a 4 inch circle shooting free hand. The .69 cal minie, 5 shots in the same size area.

I guess I'll have to take the gun to work and mount a scope so I can try these at 100 yards.

Scott

[gpidaho]

Scott: I hope you don't have any libtard co-workers. With all the workplace shootings in the press the last couple of years a quick 911 call could result in an uncomfortable quizzing downtown. This is said half in jest but something that crosses my mind. I'm with you, I can't hit a barn standing inside without a scope on my slug guns. Gp

[longbow]

Well, I wouldn't have thought you'd be having that much anti gun pressure it would close gun ranges! Are these outdoor ranges remote or has the city caught up with them so noise is a issue? Most unfortunate regardless.

I'm looking forward to your longer range results with that big Minie. I still haven't made it back out to the range as I have been distracted by our upcoming archery shoots so that's where my focus has been lately. I do want to get those Moose Minie copies tested though and my rifled choke tube installed. It's getting light late enough I may get to the range after work one day during the week.

What did your wads look like after shooting the Minies? You are using rifled gun, right? A scope and shooting off a bench helps eliminate shooter error for sure. I'm finding my bench cross sticks working so much better for me than sand bags. I can sit up comfortably and rock with the recoil. Less abuse from recoil and easier shooting. Not sure why I didn't do this years ago!

Longbow

[dsh1106]

Scott: I hope you don't have any libtard co-workers. With all the workplace shootings in the press the last couple of years a quick 911 call could result in an uncomfortable quizzing downtown. This is said half in jest but something that crosses my mind. I'm with you, I can't hit a barn standing inside without a scope on my slug guns. Gp

No bad where I work, it just seems that most people who run for office around are socialistic liberals who know whats best for everyone around them .....

I would have tried shooting without a scope, but house rules are: "All guns must have a scope, no open sights on the 100 yard range."
This is a indoor underground 100 yard range, with no shooter access to target area. Targets are on a rolling scroll, remote access to change the target.

[dsh1106]

Well, I wouldn't have thought you'd be having that much anti gun pressure it would close gun ranges! Are these outdoor ranges remote or has the city caught up with them so noise is a issue? Most unfortunate regardless.

I'm looking forward to your longer range results with that big Minie. I still haven't made it back out to the range as I have been distracted by our upcoming archery shoots so that's where my focus has been lately. I do want to get those Moose Minie copies tested though and my rifled choke tube installed. It's getting light late enough I may get to the range after work one day during the week.

What did your wads look like after shooting the Minies? You are using rifled gun, right? A scope and shooting off a bench helps eliminate shooter error for sure. I'm finding my bench cross sticks working so much better for me than sand bags. I can sit up comfortably and rock with the recoil. Less abuse from recoil and easier shooting. Not sure why I didn't do this years ago!

Longbow

LB you hit it on nose. This was an outdoor range that has been consumed by the growing population. Noise and apparently a few mishaps with the bordering properties caused enough of an issue to shut down both of the rifle and shotgun ranges.

[longbow]

That just plain sucks! The ranges were there before the houses and the developers knew that but didn't care. They make their money then the new home owners start complaining about noise then the ranges get shut down. Its just wrong!

We got the same here but with railroad tracks. There are tracks run right through Castlegar, which used to be a really small town, and houses have popped up all around the railroad tracks because either land was cheap or it was nice land or it was nice and cheap land. Now the home owners are complaining about trains going by! No winning with that sort of mentality.

I hope you get some new ranges further out of town so they get some longevity.

Good luck!

Longbow

[dsh1106]

Here are pictures of my development loads

2 3/4" primed Cheddite Hull
BlueDot
FS12 gas seal
shotcup - removed from Federal 12S3
1/8 hardcard in the bottom of the shotcup
69 cal minie filled with hot glue - 750 - 760 grains
regular os card
roll crimped to "tent" the os card over the nose of the minie.
(the 1/8 hard card increased the stack-up to the point were a clear OS card didn't allow a good roll crimp.)

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings Scott, I had tried the same bullet in wad and it would not sit straight, the little trick of my putting nitro card in wad below slug did wonders and the bullet sat perfectly by just adding nitro cards below any time it don't sit well !
Its the little tricks that makes life easier.
That was years back and I still have the mold too.

Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[longbow]

From rifled gun I'd expect this Minie and the Moose lightweight Minie to do pretty well. I was most surprised to see a video of both being tested on taofledermaus Youtube from smoothbore and both seemed to be very stable and accurate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZUaBDBAhw8&ab_channel=TAOFLEDERMAUS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1bKg5_iX9A&t=386s&ab_channel=TAOFLEDERMAUS (about 9:20 for smoothbore)

Most Minies aren't weight forward enough (I don't think) to be drag stabilized so require even slow twist rifling, as many rifled muskets had, to stabilize. The Moose Minie is much lighter weight at 535 grs. IIRC with long TC nose and small meplat and more or less matching HB plug. I made a smooth sided mould of it and cast some. they balance about mid point so not great but the nose is small profile while skirt is large of course so form and air drag may out perform the seeming far back CG. I have some loaded for testing.

Did you get your 100 yard testing done with the big .69 Minie Scott?

Longbow

[dsh1106]

From rifled gun I'd expect this Minie and the Moose lightweight Minie to do pretty well. I was most surprised to see a video of both being tested on taofledermaus Youtube from smoothbore and both seemed to be very stable and accurate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZUaBDBAhw8&ab_channel=TAOFLEDERMAUS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1bKg5_iX9A&t=386s&ab_channel=TAOFLEDERMAUS (about 9:20 for smoothbore)

Most Minies aren't weight forward enough (I don't think) to be drag stabilized so require even slow twist rifling, as many rifled muskets had, to stabilize. The Moose Minie is much lighter weight at 535 grs. IIRC with long TC nose and small meplat and more or less matching HB plug. I made a smooth sided mould of it and cast some. they balance about mid point so not great but the nose is small profile while skirt is large of course so form and air drag may out perform the seeming far back CG. I have some loaded for testing.

Did you get your 100 yard testing done with the big .69 Minie Scott?

Longbow

LB

I have not had the opportunity to shoot this anywhere but the 27 +/- yards.
I took the time to put a scope on the A-Bolt and went back to the indoor range, but was denied access.

Apparently there is too much drop from a 12 gauge in the 100 yard distance, to be compensated for. This underground range has an unobstructed height of 55 - 60 inches through the entire distance, and the firearm is sitting on the floor of the shooting range.

I did send all of the required components to build maybe a dozen rounds to gpidaho to have a go at it. He said the results were less than stellar. I can't seem to find his range report, as I had to clean out my inbox a while back. Maybe Gp still has his notes from the testing he did.

I do have maybe a dozen rounds loaded and ready to go as we speak.

IIRC I sold the mold to missionary5155, I did find a place I can get the same minie that's extruded.

Scott

[longbow]

Disappointing that! Too bad there are so many range restrictions where you are.

I was thinking of buying that mould after watching the Taofledermaus videos. Their test lot is usually pretty small though so who knows how they would perform on average out of a smoothbore. From rifled gun, if the slug doesn't skid in the wad in the rifling I'd think they'd do well but from smoothbore I didn't want to buy a mould then find out they really aren't that good.

I do have my Moose Minie clones loaded up so now have to get my butt out to the range and shoot! In fact I have about 100 slugs loaded up to test or close anyway, so will have a sore shoulder for a while after I think. That may take at least two range trips to sort out.

I don't recall seeing gp's range report but then I don't recall a lot lately!

Thanks for the update.

Longbow

[longbow]

Well, that's interesting... I decided to check out prices of the .69 Minie mould and they have discontinued it! No more 0.678" RB moulds either, at least not listed. I am glad I have all the round ball moulds I needed (wanted?)! I have every one that could be useful for 12 ga. and all but one are Lyman. Unlike the Lyman bullet moulds, all my round ball moulds cast large with WW by about 0.002" to 0.003".

If anyone is looking for that Minie or 0.678" RB moulds best to look at Midway or other dealers quick then buy it if you see it!

Longbow

[dsh1106]

LB

Here is where i found the extruded version - https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/1296/category_id/336/product_name/BU1006+SWAGED+.69+CAL+MINIE+BALLS+%2825
I will have to make a sizing die depending on the actual size I receive, and based on the wad/cup choice.

Just a side note - I was unable to determine what "wad" used in the taofledermaus testing, I spent close to $100 buying "green" wads trying to find one the fit the MINIE as shown in the you-tube presentation.

Scott

[longbow]

Yes, I got caught a bit in that same dilemma when I made the Moose Minie clone. I assumed it would be 0.690" nominal so made the mould to cast that size. As it turns out the only wad I have that is correct fit is a Claybuster/Winchester clone for 7/8 oz. and it has thin petals so is perfect fit. However, past experience with the Claybuster/Winchester clones for 1 1/8 oz. was not good. Real Winchester wads work well there but petals are too thick for the Moose Minie clone. I can make a sizer to suit though so not a disaster... and it may turn out that the 7/8 oz. Claybuster wad is okay too.

I really should have made the mould to cast to suit the real Winchester wads I have. Oh well!

Also, I cast using range scrap so harder than pure lead. They might be better being a bit oversize in pure lead so easily swaging to bore size in the wad without shearing petals.

Testing will tell the tale though.

If they work out then maybe I'll make a smooth sided clone of the big .69 Minie too. I almost bid on a 68569 Minie mould without a core pin that was going cheap. I can make a core pin easily but didn't bid. Should have but didn't.

Longbow

Yikes! just looked at the Dixie Minie in the link you posted and it is 0.694" so large!

[6pt-sika]

I bought two of the Moose minnie molds hopefully the larger to work in a 10 and the other in a 12 both smoothbore of course . I got them with extra base plugs so they could be solid base as well . Anyway I cast some when I got the molds a year or two ago shot a few then got side tracked by something else . Perhaps I can get back to them soon .

[longbow]

6pt:

Have you seen the Taofledermaus videos? I was amazed that the big minie stabilized from smoothbore but so it did and accuracy to at least 50 yards appeared to be very good. Impact of the heavy Minie was also pretty impressive.

The Moose Minie did very well too but I suspect is more weight forward plus with the pointy TC nose there is little gray compared to the skirt so maybe form helps out as well.

Didn't know they made one in 10 ga.! I'm sure that will leave a mark on whatever it hits!

That is one big Minie!! Post pics!

Longbow

[6pt-sika]

6pt:

Have you seen the Taofledermaus videos? I was amazed that the big minie stabilized from smoothbore but so it did and accuracy to at least 50 yards appeared to be very good. Impact of the heavy Minie was also pretty impressive.

The Moose Minie did very well too but I suspect is more weight forward plus with the pointy TC nose there is little gray compared to the skirt so maybe form helps out as well.

Didn't know they made one in 10 ga.! I'm sure that will leave a mark on whatever it hits!

That is one big Minie!! Post pics!

Longbow
Technically they don’t make any for shotguns . But I got a .685” Wadcutter to use in 12 gauge in a shot cup and I got a .715” wad cutter to use in the shot cup of a 10 gauge . When I get back to it they may get some masking tape or Teflon tape wraps to make them more snug . Because to be honest it’s been long enough ago and enough other things have cropped up that I don’t remmember to what extent I’d gotten . I just looked at the Guy you mentioned on YouTube , he isn’t my cup of tea .

[6pt-sika]

Incidentally the Moose folks have a booth at the North South Skirmish Association grounds in Winchester VA which is about 90 minutes from me .

[longbow]

Yes, 0.715" will need a thick sleeve to get it to 10 ga. or even to fit snug in 10 ga. shotcup. A few wraps of paper to form a tube should work easy enough but you'd have to slice the tube like a shotcup to get it to separate... like a shotcup.

I'm surprised they make a 0.715" version must be for 12 ga. rifle?

I was surprised to see that Lyman appears to have discontinued both the 0.678" ball moulds and the 68569 Minie moulds. I guess there aren't enough sales of .69 moulds to keep the financial guys happy. Good for Moose Moulds though!

Longbow

[6pt-sika]

Yes, 0.715" will need a thick sleeve to get it to 10 ga. or even to fit snug in 10 ga. shotcup. A few wraps of paper to form a tube should work easy enough but you'd have to slice the tube like a shotcup to get it to separate... like a shotcup.

I'm surprised they make a 0.715" version must be for 12 ga. rifle?


Tight in the shotcup as such doesn't matter to me as much as how tight it is in the shotcup when it passes thru the somewhat tight choke .

[longbow]

I'd figure those design would compress easily due to large HB and extending up into the nose... if you have the Moose wadcutter HB anyway. If cast from soft lead I wouldn't be concerned. If cast from wheelweights I still wouldn't be much concerned if in a plastic wad but I might just use an old shotgun with full choke and put a few high pressure/high velocity rounds through it just to be sure. If the choke survives then I'd trust shooting them in my good gun.

There have been a few people say they have shot 0.735" RB's through a full choke with no damage and one fellow says he uses 0.690" RB's in shotcups through full choke in 12 ga. He says good accuracy and no damage to choke but petals shear off at the choke. Not sure I'd go that far!

Anyway, with wrapped slug in shotcup you should be good. Maybe try Teflon wrap? That would squish as well as the shotcup petals so added insurance. However, it is your gun so you have to decide and be comfortable with what you are doing. I have done a few dumb things in my life so maybe not the best resource! As they say... "Good judgement comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgement!" I can vouch for that!

Longbow

[6pt-sika]

I'd figure those design would compress easily due to large HB and extending up into the nose... if you have the Moose wadcutter HB anyway. If cast from soft lead I wouldn't be concerned. If cast from wheelweights I still wouldn't be much concerned if in a plastic wad but I might just use an old shotgun with full choke and put a few high pressure/high velocity rounds through it just to be sure. If the choke survives then I'd trust shooting them in my good gun.

There have been a few people say they have shot 0.735" RB's through a full choke with no damage and one fellow says he uses 0.690" RB's in shotcups through full choke in 12 ga. He says good accuracy and no damage to choke but petals shear off at the choke. Not sure I'd go that far!

Anyway, with wrapped slug in shotcup you should be good. Maybe try Teflon wrap? That would squish as well as the shotcup petals so added insurance. However, it is your gun so you have to decide and be comfortable with what you are doing. I have done a few dumb things in my life so maybe not the best resource! As they say... "Good judgement comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgement!" I can vouch for that!

Longbow

By all means do as you see fit , but for my own I’ll keep at it as I have been for the last number of years .

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Good morning, Here is the good news for 12 ga .690" RB shooters, but that Win Yellow 12F114 wad is not in the picture, the measurements are at the bottom of the picture .731" to .733" always cast them with WW
* * The ones whose barrel is Over bored will love the Fed 12S-0 wad third from left and 4th from left in Red Versalite wad !
https://i.imgur.com/wSrmpV9.jpg


Today if you ask me which is the 12 ga Nitro Express load you can't live without then:
A. Lyman 525 Slug in wad
B. .678" RB load
C. Lee 7/8 oz Drive Key

I personally would choose .678" RB for being the deadliest all round load.

In our 20 ga Super High Power Nitro Express load
A. .575" RB beats all other choices for being a all around load with the only change of adding 2 1/2 nitro cards of 28 ga in wad below the RB in stead of two, now ! !
Those Circle Fly nitro cards serve the purpose well, can easily be split in half with just your thumb nails !
https://i.imgur.com/EjNfr04.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gfK7kCT.jpg
The second best being a Heavy Hitter 450 to 460 gr slug but this time I'll add yet another 1/2 nitro card to it below the slug to make it 1 1/2 nitro cards in wad !
https://i.imgur.com/hWCUHD5.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/F1eoniz.jpg

Please don't let anyone suggest you to add .045 or .070" nitro card as it would be a " Sin " and will destroy all your efforts trying to get load efficiency.
Be sure to at least include .125" if not .135 or better yet .170 nitro card to help give your load a firm base.
If the wad you are using can accommodate a 16 ga nitro card, putting a 20 ga nitro card will hurt the accuracy.
**--** Be sure to check, if it does not fit only then use the first card as .125" 20 ga followed by .125" 16 ga nitro card.
** No Rocket science here, its simple common sense.

When developing newer loads always start out with newer Fiocchi hull and Fed 209A Magnum primer for full load efficiency and combustion !
Choose wads with longer skirts for far better obturation.
Use Fold crimp.
* If in doubt, ask questions for its your own safety that comes first.

Please don't bad mouth my components as they all play a very important role in our cooking.
Those Fiocchi hull play a vital role in keeping us safe with their built - in - Safety checks !
Showing pressure signs early-on.
A known Enemy is far far better than an unknown enemy !

** __ **I try my level best to paint a very clear picture so as to no mistakes are made by you.
A post without pictures to document is useless and dangerous in my way of thinking !
I see a lot of post of powder gr, but no mention of the powder or loads with powder and gr but for what slug ?
Only God knows.

Two or three " Bad Elements still being protected by the administration for years, yet no one dare to speak against them, time after time !

Wrong Star Rating continues and I hate being forced to give an Extra star when I should be giving three Stars and not four Stars !

The above are my 2 cents.

Do not venture to the range without a Ear plug and a Ear Muff for added protection !

Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
https://i.imgur.com/m0Px30G.jpg