.44-40 brass question

[Captain*Kirk]

Hi, all. Gonna be loading .44-40 WCF for my Winchester '66 very soon. My research shows the only bulk brass available right now is Starline; Starline is very good brass, but many reviewers have stated it's just too hard in it's non-annealed state for a bottleneck case like the .44-40. Should I:

a) buy the Starline and attempt to anneal it?

b) wait until Remington or Winchester brass becomes available (if ever)?

c) just use the Starline as-is...too much hype on the 'net about such things?

If you have used Starline in .44-40 and had no issues, please weigh in.

[Beagle333]

I use Starline 44-40 for my pistols and don't have any problems as long as I seat and crimp in separate actions. If I get lazy and try to do it like my 45 Colt and seat/crimp at once, it'll wad up the case. But it might in any brand, I'm not sure.
Overall, it works great!

[Outpost75]

I find the Starline .44-40 brass superior to the R-P and W-W.

If you intend to load BP you may want to anneal it, as it is a bit heavier.

[Walks]

If you have to anneal new brass before you use it. I don't buy it.
Buy a couple of boxes of Winchester or Remington ammo.

starline won't expand unless you fire a Max Black Powder load in a Ruger Original Vaquero or Marlin Rifle.

Otherwise it blacken's the case, because it's too hard.

[Captain*Kirk]

I find the Starline .44-40 brass superior to the R-P and W-W.

If you intend to load BP you may want to anneal it, as it is a bit heavier.

Maybe down the road, going to start off with smokeless.

[Ruts]

I use star line but it is nickel plated and splits at the case mouth it doesn’t last long. My star line non nickel works great and lasts long.

[country gent]

I have used Starline, Winchester and Remington brass with good results with Black Powder (BP) loads. I have found with BP loads all brands benefit from annealing. They are left harder for the smokeless powder loads. Annealing isn't a big job but can be time consuming if there's a lot of brass. Simplest way is to stand deprimed brass up in a pan of water with waterline about half way up case ( just below shoulder) and heat to a light blue with propane torch. tip over . Another way is a socket and extension roll case in flame to color change and drop in water dipping socket in water each time to cool as it acts as a heat sink. copper tubing can be used to make this tool up also. With this you can set the end of the tubing's length to right where you want the anneal to be slowed stopped.

[Captain*Kirk]

I have used Starline, Winchester and Remington brass with good results with Black Powder (BP) loads. I have found with BP loads all brands benefit from annealing. They are left harder for the smokeless powder loads.

Is this because of the jacketed bullets normally used?

[country gent]

Pressure levels are higher or different pressure curve for smokeless loads. Also figure in the levels of fouling between BP and Smokeless that need to be controlled.

[veeman]

I have never felt the need to anneal my starline brass, works great in all 7 of my 44-40 guns. Never had to do any trimming either.

[Savvy Jack]

Starline

Starline "thickness" is in between the thinner Winchester and thicker Remington. I have never had any problems with either full black powder loads or any normal pressure smokeless loads.

Lightly loaded cowboy action loads, black or smokeless, of about 7,000psi may or may not expand the brass enough to seal the chamber. Light 6.4gr loads of Trailboss does seem to give me a little "blow-by" back on the case neck.

I have never annealed any of my brass.

Only have to trim my high pressure loads every "thirty or fifty" loads

[Hootmix]

Starline,,, nuf said.

coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

My experience has been: c).

[1Hawkeye]

Starline is great in a .44/40 the only reason to anneal it is if you are shoot black powder because bp doesn't generate enough pressure to seal up the case mouth to the chamber wall so things get a little sooty. If your only going to use smokeless you don't have to worry about it. The big thing with .44/40 is to be sure that you have enough flair on the case mouth so you don't crush the case when seating the bullet.

[Savvy Jack]

Let me reiterate some of my black powder pressure findings. It helps me remember but I still have to look at my cheat sheet!
Could explain case neck expansion, or the lack thereof.


Black Powder pressures
239510

Compare that with lightly loaded "Sootie" Unique loads
239513

...and Trail Boss
239514

If these numbers are correct, could Starline Brass need 10,000psi minimum chamber pressures to fully expand the case neck to seal the chamber?
Winchester less?
Remington more?

[Captain*Kirk]

Thank you for keeping such detailed "cheat sheets" and for sharing them. Looks like Unique gets into the pressure cooker mode fairly early in the game with lead boolits.
I've decided to start out using commercially available lasercast 200gr cast boolits before deciding on a mould. Sounds like I should stay on the light side of Unique to start with. Alliant recommends 5-7.9gr (max) with a 24" barrel. Thinking 6 might be a good starting point? Although you seem to have good pressures using 7.9 with a 200gr boolit...

[Texas by God]

I've loaded and fired my Winchester 44-40 brass 6 times so far with a +P charge of Unique under a 200gr fp in my single shot Topper. Nothing dramatic has happened yet. I will probably get some Starline because of availability soon.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Savvy Jack]

I have reloaded some 20,000psi Starline cases well over 20 times with no problems...so many times I have lost count. At least 83 tests @ 10 cartridges per test between 100 cases set aside for those loads....not including high pressure shots used in the Buckhorn revolver and Marlin rifle.

[Savvy Jack]

On a side note....

Sharpe's 1937 manual shows several rifle loads recommended by Hercules and Du Pont that produce pressures of 14,000, 16,000, 20,000 and [27.5gr 2400] @ 33,000......I assume c.u.p.
[approx. 28,000psi or much much more]

Revolver pressures to 15,000.....I assume c.u.p. [approx. 12,690psi] This even more so falls in line with my testings with black powder original unheadstamped cases.

Powders used for rifle were 2400, Unique, Sharpshooter, Lightning, 1204, SR80 and 4227. The 4227[I assume IMR 4227] shows 29gr @ 1,890fps but no pressures.
Powders used for revolver were #5, #6, Bullseye, Unique, SR80, SS FFG, and RSQ

[Captain*Kirk]

My experience has been: c).

Unfortunately, true more times than not, and usually due to operator error. That's why it's best to ask folks like you all who have been doing this for collectively hundreds of years.
If Starline wasn't good brass, they would be out of business.

[ukrifleman]

I use Starline brass in my Chiappa 44-40 Spencer cavalry carbine without issue and have never annealed cases.

ukrifleman

[DaveM]

I use Starline .44 WCF brass in a Cimarron 1873 Sporting Rifle and 1860 Henry. I mostly shoot full black powder loads, some .44 Henry Flat-equivalent BP loads, and some smokeless with Unique. I've never annealed my cases. Even with the reduced BP loads the cases fully seal the chamber, with no fouling getting back into the action.

[Randy Bohannon]

I have two new production Win/Miroku 1973's in 44-40 one likes RP brass and boolits sized .429" the other WW brass and a .430" boolit.Let the rifle tell you what it likes,I have no problems compressing 40 grs. 2F and using 230 gr. boolits. I started with B/P and no reason to mess with anything else for me, all the accuracy I could ask for with very good velocities.