IMI M-1 carbine

[Ilwil]

I have one of these, in visibly excellent shape. The problem is that bullets are keyholing on the paper, at 25 and 50 yds. Can anyone think of a possible reason? I don't see any muzzle damage that would be a more obvious explanation.

[Texas by God]

I have one of these, in visibly excellent shape. The problem is that bullets are keyholing on the paper, at 25 and 50 yds. Can anyone think of a possible reason? I don't see any muzzle damage that would be a more obvious explanation.Try as many different brands of factory ammo as you can. See if it keyholes with all of them first.

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[Ilwil]

Yeah, I tried with two different factory loads and some hand loads. They all key holed.

[Geezer in NH]

measure the bore

[Texas by God]

I would recrown it then. Nothing to lose.

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[Der Gebirgsjager]

measure the bore

Ditto.


I would recrown it then. Nothing to lose.

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Ditto again.

Folks who have M1 Carbines like to shoot them -- a lot! Your bore may be worn out, despite the fact that you can see some rifling remaining. It may still be useful with some slightly over sized cast boolits -- .311"

[Gtek]

Or someone who does not understand protecting crown when cleaning, quick and dirty see if it swallows a bullet. Usually they cut a pretty good angle in crown and can deceive, grab good lighting and see if the brass hits the muzzle.

[TNsailorman]

DG and others has a very good point but Gtek hit the nail on the head also. Slug your bore. I have seen quite a few of the older/heavy used Carbines that had worn crowns or bores that were damaged using steel cleaning rods without a muzzle guide. If it can't be cleaned from the chamber end, it can easily be damaged without a guide. my experience anyway, james

[KenT7021]

Try counterboring the muzzle a half inch or so.I saw an entire rack of M1 carbines in a surplus store in Colorado Springs during the early 60's that had been counterbored during arsenal rebuilds.

[3006guns]

I purchased an almost new IMI m1 from a friend before he moved, mostly because it "looked" more like a G.I. gun than most. The problems I encountered were:

1. Front sight was crooked, clocked almost 4 degrees to one side from the factory. I pulled it off and found the key groove was crooked also. No way to reset the barrel, so I literally glued it on with JBWeld and no key. Worked.

2. Gun doubled a couple of times, then went full auto. Cease fire! Found the factory firing pin bent and jammed forward....probably soft steel.......and replaced it with a G.I part. Fixed.

2. Slide stop (hold open) button is easily jarred loose when handling the gun. I'll have to deepen than slot with a small end mill.....on the "to do" list.

Accuracy........well, it's within government requirements, which isn't much. The best I can get it to do is about a 3" group at fifty yards, no matter what load I use. A word of caution here about ammo: I was given about 400 rounds of Wolf brand carbine ammo with the gun. That stuff is HOT! After trying to shoot a few rounds the slide disassembled itself from the gun. I now stick to my reloads, although after reading about the keyhole problem I may slug the barrel to double check.

All in all, not a bad gun. Just don't expect world class accuracy from it, as it was never intended to be a target piece anyway.

[Multigunner]

Check to be sure there's not a blown through jacket ironed into the rifling.
Grooves completely filled in with metal fouling is another possibility.

I've read of some surplus Carbine barrels that showed up on the market about ten or more years ago that had only two grooves, both on the same side. Apparently these were button rifled and two pieces of the cherry(?) had sheared off . Quality control must have been non existent.

Some Korean returned carbines had been stamped very deeply on the barrel and it deformed the bore.

Never heard of any manufacturing defects notable with the IMI carbines but one can never tell.

[georgerkahn]

I have an Israel Arms Houston, Tx. US Caliber .30M1 Carbine w/ metal hand guard S/n M888-R202xxx; I never heard of "IMI", and a Google search of these references to the IAI. ???? Regardless, when I got mine, quite used, it key-holed a bit. Targeted holes in paper were just slightly egg-shaped, with my questioning if it was an in-flight tumble. My "gun guru" (now deceased) of the time suggested "I had my work cut out for me" as he attributed it to lots and lots of copper build-up which kept (factory) bullets from getting sufficient purchase to get up to stabilization speed in their flight to the target. Whether this was a true assessment or not, I spent waaaay too much time with Shooter's Choice, brushes, and swabs. It turns out after an hour's cleaning, and removal or what I thought was all the fouling, I'd -- per his instructions -- put a good coat of Shooters Choice on barrel, and leave overnight. Next day, to my surprise, the patches pulled through would be coloured from copper! I don't believe I ever got 100% of copper out -- but, for ME, the holes in paper became circles. Something you may wish to look into? Nowadays -- not when I acquired the IAI -- they have on market aggressive copper-removal solvents, but not having used any, cannot suggest one.
Good luck!
geo

[Uncle Grinch]

I have an Israel Arms Houston, Tx. US Caliber .30M1 Carbine w/ metal hand guard S/n M888-R202xxx; I never heard of "IMI", and a Google search of these references to the IAI. ???? Regardless, when I got mine, quite used, it key-holed a bit. Targeted holes in paper were just slightly egg-shaped, with my questioning if it was an in-flight tumble. My "gun guru" (now deceased) of the time suggested "I had my work cut out for me" as he attributed it to lots and lots of copper build-up which kept (factory) bullets from getting sufficient purchase to get up to stabilization speed in their flight to the target. Whether this was a true assessment or not, I spent waaaay too much time with Shooter's Choice, brushes, and swabs. It turns out after an hour's cleaning, and removal or what I thought was all the fouling, I'd -- per his instructions -- put a good coat of Shooters Choice on barrel, and leave overnight. Next day, to my surprise, the patches pulled through would be coloured from copper! I don't believe I ever got 100% of copper out -- but, for ME, the holes in paper became circles. Something you may wish to look into? Nowadays -- not when I acquired the IAI -- they have on market aggressive copper-removal solvents, but not having used any, cannot suggest one.
Good luck!
geo


Geo, that’s very intriguing and makes perfect sense to me. I’ll have to file that issue away for future use.

Thanks!

[GONRA]

mutigunner - GONRA sez MAYBE these barrels were made from WW II surplus 2 groove Remington Springfield barrels?

[Dragonheart]

I would also ditto on the crown advice. One problem is the carbine & the Garand were cleaned using a steel rod from the muzzle so a damaged crown is likely. I would also ditto a really good job on cleaning the barrel.

[edp2k]

The IMI M1 carbine is a new reproduction of the WWII M1 carbine.
It was NOT made in the 1940's.

These modern (post 1980) M1 carbine repros have had many QC and accuracy problems.
If you dig online deep enough you will discover that, even though they have different names on them (Inland, IMI, IAI, etc.)
they all end up being the same company or parts subcontractor companies.

So the problem with this one is not that it was worn out in Asia or Europe nor came home in a crate with hundreds of its rusty breathern.
It's manufacturing tolerances/quality.