? on value/quality of Uberti versus Winchester/Miroku lever guns '66/'73

[bedbugbilly]

In my quest for downsizing/changes I've pretty much decided that I will go with either a 1866 or 1873 lever gun (probably '73). I am looking at 38 or 38/357 and later, one in 45 Colt. I'll be plinking with he 38 more than the 45 Colt but have decided to stick with those two cartridges since I have been loading both for so long and like both. I haven't decided on "carbine" or "short rifle" yet for the the sake of the questions I have - doesn't matter.

I have Uberti revolvers and am very satisfied with the quality and performance of them - Uberti and Taylor's Uberti - don't have any Cimarron but know they are fine as well.

In looking at, for instance, the 1873 Winchester Carbine in 38/357 - I've watched lots of videos of both Uberti and Winchester/Miroku. Both appear to be nice and good shooters - at least in the videos I've seen. So my question is this (depending on availability at the time I'm looking to buy - probably within the next two months) . . . .

The Winchester/Miroku has a MSRP of $1,299.99 (not sure what they can be purchased for through a LGS) . . .

From what I'm seeing, a Uberti is going to run around $1100 . . . give or take.

A lot of $ for a gun but I'm disposing of some that I have as well as reloading stuff I don't need so I'm determined to shell out for either of them as they'll probably be the last long guns I'll buy - getting older and having one or two rifles that you shoot is better than having a lot of rifles that don't get shot. I don't shoot competition but still want to do much plinking and can killing as I can, while I can.

So my question for those that are familiar with the Ubeertis (regardless of Uberti, Taylor's or Cimarron) and the Winchester Miroku - if you laid a 1873 Carbine or each brand side by side, shot them and critiqued the action, and performance . . . would one top another?

I realize there can be a difference in finish, stock wood, etc. - the actual Winchester/Miroku has what I would consider a more tradition straight grain, oil finish walnut stock and I am guessing that the Uberti stocks are traditional Uberti finish . . but overall, is there a reason for spending approximately an extra $200 for the Winchester/Miroku over a Uberti?

After I'm gone and the rifle disposed of - is the Winchester/Miroku going to fetch anymore than the Uberti would - both of which would still be "used rifles" at that time?

Everyone has their preferences but I'm looking for an objective answer between the two makes and I'm sure that either one would serve very well - just not sure as far as the mechanical aspect/function/action, etc. or even accuracy between the two barrels.

When I buy something in the 45 Colt - I will probably be looking at the rifle version as I may decide to shoot that at longer distances while the 38/357 would likely be 100 yards or shorter - and all cartridges would be with cast booolits.

If the Winchester/Miroku is a better choice, then I need to start inquiring at some LGS to see what they can o price wise/delivery wise - if the Uberti is an equal but less expensive way to go and still get good performance - then I have several mail-order places where it appears that they might be available under MSRP with just the transfer fee to pay on top of it.

Thanks for your thoughts/advice.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I have some of what you want to know, but maybe not all of it. I have one each 1873 model Uberti and Miroku/Win. Both were purchased brand new about the middle of last year. First, the Uberti, has an almost "fancy" grade walnut stock. The front sight is mounted on the front barrel band, which is kind of neat, whereas the Miroku is dovetailed into the barrel. The Uberti is a 19" barrel and the Miroku is 20". Your observation of the Miroku wood is correct, theirs is nice solid walnut, but straight grained. Both of mine are .44-40 WCF, and I can't really give the nod to one or the other for best accuracy because this one seems to shoot this load a bit better than the other, and with a different load it can be reversed. So many variables in cast boolit shooting! Both of mine have blue receivers and color case levers. Both have excellent blue jobs. The Miroku has a steel cap on the fore stock in lieu of a mid-barrel band, whereas the Uberti's fore stock ends in wood and is about an inch longer than the Miroku's. Both butt stocks have curved steel butt plates, but the Miroku's is more so, and the Uberti's is wider. In my opinion, your observation about the price difference was true when I bought mine, and I do not think the price of the Miroku is really justified. I think you're paying for the Winchester name association. I don't plan on selling either, but if I could only keep one I think it would be the Uberti.

I can't give you any information about these rifles in .357 Mag., but do also own two lever actions in .45 Colt, a Rossi 24" octagon R-92 and a Chiappa 20" '92. I like the both, but especially the Chiappa -- except I do not like it's wood. The Rossi R-92s have a peculiar little add on safety on top of the bolt that rotates to block the firing pin. I don't mind it, but some find it non-authentic and objectionable. Huge price difference between the two rifles, again not really justified.

[NSB]

If you ever go to sell them you'll quickly see why the Miroku goes first, and at a higher price.

[jimb16]

I had both. Today I have a Uberti. I just liked it better. (.45 Colt)

[jmort]

Agree with above
Resale, the Winchester
Japanese proven production
Urberti, once you get it tuned, you are in it deep, the bad deep.
But me personally, I would get the Urberti and get it tuned and shoot it.
You will have more money in it.
I would ignore the resale for a gun to be used, so I would buy an Urberti
Shoot the Winchester, lose some money as well, just less money
If you ever handle and cycle a tuned Urberti, you know it is sweet, it runs real good

[bedbugbilly]

A big thanks to everyone for your kind responses and input . . it's been very helpful. I've spent a lot of time considering what to do . . sort of comes down to this . . . pay $1,000 for a Uberti and if in the end my wife has to sell it, she gets maybe $600 or buy a Miroku, pay $1,200 and if my wife ends up having to sell it, getting maybe $800 - all hypothetical figures. I've decided to go the route of the Uberti. I was planning one getting a 38 or 38/357 first, but I located a Uberti '73 rifle in 45 Colt and will go and take a look at it in a couple of days. For the 45 Colt, I'd like the rifle version for the 24" barrel. On the 38 or 38/357, I'm thinking either the carbine or the short rifle. If I like the Uberti rifle in 45 Colt, we'll see if the seller and I can come to terms - would much rather see what I am buying than ordering and getting a surprise package. If it works out, I'll get the 45 Colt first and while I'm playing with that, get the guns I'm going to sell sold and then get the 38 or 38/357. I'm sure that the Uberti will do all that I need it to.

Again, thanks for the information and input - it really has been helpful.

Jim

[bedbugbilly]

I went to the LGS out here that had the Uberti '73 straight stock sporting rifle - 24" barrel - 45 LC on their site. While I have a half dozen Uberti revolvers and love each of them,, I had never really taken a look at their rifles. The shop is a smaller one - run by a nice guy. The shop is real heavy to ARs, semi-autos with just a few SA revolvers and the one "old school lever gun".

First off - I fell in love with the rifle - top notch quality and workmanship, butter smooth action, great trigger and I loved the balance of the rifle - wasn't sure if I would like the rifle and had been leaning towards the "short rifle" version but have not had a chance to handle on. To the guy asked how I liked it - I told him and then asked him what his best price was on it. Long story short, no "dicker room" and the gun was priced a little over $75 of what I can buy it online at three different places I've looked.

The store offers "free shipping" so I asked him since I was looking to pay cash, if he had any wiggle room in deducting the "free shipping" charges - since it really isn't free. Nope. O.K. It's his store and i respect that so I just thanked him for letting me take a look at it and said I'd think about it.

If I had purchased it - and forget about the FFL transfer fee - by the time I bough the rive from him at the higher price and then added on the sales tax - in the geographical area where he is located the sales tax is between 8% and 9% - I would have paid around $150 - $160 more for the rifle than if I bought it on - line at a lesser price, did the transfer but didn[t have to pay the sals tax for the state of shipping origin. I wish the store owner well . . I really do . . . but that savings of $150 - $160 will go a long ways towards a tang sight to put on the rifle - so I will waite and order one on-line at the end of the month.

Again, I'm not knocking the LGS owner - he has to do what he has to do but from standing in the store and looking at his inventory - which was probably 300 firearms - 99% were
AR, semi-auto pistol rifle tactical stuff and the Uberti lever gun stuck out like the "red headed step child" and I'm sure it had been on the rack for quite a while.

At any rate, I got to check the Uberti '73 45LC out and I REALLY LIKED what I saw - can't wait to get one as it looks like a great rifle and great fun.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

O.K.,BBB, here's just one or two observations:

First, you're trying to save a buck, I do realize that, but you had one you liked in hand. When you order on line, as I did mine from GB, you're going to get stuck with $25-$40 for shipping to your FFL dealer, and then pay him a transfer fee. Maybe you've got a dealer buddy who treats you right, but mine -- for whom I used to do some gunsmithing jobs and have have known for 30 years, charged me $50 per transfer each for all of the guns I mentioned in my original post. So add that and the shipping onto your purchase price. To be fair to my old buddy, $16 of that $50 goes to Oregon State Police for the background check, but when I was in business I charged $25. He's right around 80 years old and just closed up shop, moving to South Dakota to get married!

Anyway, secondly, when you've got the gun in hand you can examine its function and maybe even run a few dummy rounds through it, but when you order it on line you may find it doesn't work smoothly. That will require some gunsmithing or perhaps even a return which likely involves additional shipping expenses. There are also some intangible benefits to buying from that "nice guy" local dealer, and one of them is "good will". That may well show up in future purchases. If a problem with the rifle should arise during the warranty period you can take it up with the dealer who will likely go to bat for you with the manufacturer.

[bedbugbilly]

Der Gebirgsiager- all good points that you make. I've been thinking about the very same things this afternoon and and my Dad's old "penny wise but pound foolish" came to mind . . . funny how things stick with you and he's been gone now for close to 25 years. Funny . . . we all have a bit of "horse trader" with us and it never hurts to ask if there is any leeway in pricing . . . but one thing I won't do is to beat on a person to get the price down . . . I asked and the owner gave me, what I feel. was his honest answer. He has to keep his doors open and he can't do it by giving things away . . . I was in business for over 50 years and know how those things are. The guy has a gun shop in the middle of what I would call a "liberal pocket" here and I give him a lot of credit for that. As you say, being able to hold, examine and check the function is worth something over buying a "surprise package" sight unseen. I don't think the rifle is going anywhere soon so I'm going to sleep on it and will probably go back and bring it home.

Thanks for your thoughts . . . greatly appreciated and valid points.

Jim

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Thank you for your "thank you" and kind words. Best wishes to you in whatever you decide to do.

Yes, all folks "in business" have to make a living.

DG

[35 Whelen]

I've owned a few Uberti '66's and '73's and if only on the outside, they're much more true to the original Winchesters, of which I own two.

You're looking at buying a Uberti in a very, very common caliber which means they're readily available. You can go to one of the CAS sites (SASS Wire Classifieds (https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/forum/14-sass-wire-classifieds/) or the CAS City Classifieds (https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/board,104.0.html), post an ad and have one, probably already slicked up, for less than the price of a new one.

35W