Show me your BPCR drop tubes!

[Captain*Kirk]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so...
Let's see some pictures of your BPCR drop tubes!
Gonna be loading soon for .45/70, and possibly .44-40 WCF in BPCR, so need to concoct a drop tube. I have a pretty good *vague* idea of what I want to build, but actually seeing what works for others usually saves mistakes, headaches and wasted materials as well.
Whattya got?

[rfd]

drop tubes are no big deal to make. i use a 29" aluminum arrow shaft with an aluminum funnel glued and taped at one end, some wood stuck together to hold up the arrow shaft in screw eyes, a set screw collet to adjust the height of the tube, a piece of computer mouse pad over the business end of the tube to keep the kernals from popping out of the case.

https://i.imgur.com/0rnoPIt.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Poiw80t.jpg

[Captain*Kirk]

Nice! See, I like the fact you bored a hole to keep the case upright. Might not have figured that out until I tipped a case or two. I should have a few Easton aluminum shafts floating about from my 'pre-woody' days.

[BrentD]

https://i.imgur.com/nMWL7sT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/N9vltG2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/OzmFUIO.jpg

[indian joe]

https://i.imgur.com/nMWL7sT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/N9vltG2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/OzmFUIO.jpg

I like the double funnel setup - clever ! - I will copy that to mine - dunno about the elecric motor ? - I guess I dont trust myself to keep things clean enough for that to be safe.

[Dan Cash]

A Lyman 55 measure, operated gently on the dump side of the throw, will trickle and settle a charge as well as it will ever get by any means.

[indian joe]

A Lyman 55 measure, operated gently on the dump side of the throw, will trickle and settle a charge as well as it will ever get by any means.

hmmmmmm ........I reckon I would take a bet on that setup of Brents above

[BrentD]

Dan, try filling your .45-70s with 82 grs of Swiss 1.5f. If you get one done, then tell me how fast you can load 100 of them.

[Froogal]

I am rather inexperienced when it comes to black powder, but I just do not understand the concept of the drop tube. If you have already determined how MUCH powder is needed in the shell, and you will be compressing that amount to eliminate the air space, what difference does it make if you use a drop tube or simply use a funnel to put the powder in the shell?

[Captain*Kirk]

I am rather inexperienced when it comes to black powder, but I just do not understand the concept of the drop tube. If you have already determined how MUCH powder is needed in the shell, and you will be compressing that amount to eliminate the air space, what difference does it make if you use a drop tube or simply use a funnel to put the powder in the shell?

Because, simply put...if you don't trickle, it won't fit.

Wow...some hi-tech stuff there! Brent, can you explain the electric gizmos for us weak-minded folks?

[MOA]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so...
Let's see some pictures of your BPCR drop tubes!
Gonna be loading soon for .45/70, and possibly .44-40 WCF in BPCR, so need to concoct a drop tube. I have a pretty good *vague* idea of what I want to build, but actually seeing what works for others usually saves mistakes, headaches and wasted materials as well.
Whattya got?

Waukegan........ah, good ole Waukegan. I remember taking a train there for my first liberty from Great Lakes. Ah, the fond memories. Lol

Ok, Cap, here's some images of how I did mine when I got bitten by BP.
I used some scrap poplar 3/4" X 2 inches wide stock from work, and a few pieces of 3/4" plywood on the base and short back. After sanding the long 2" x 3/4" x 39" on all sides with 150 grit, I made two cuts off one end. Each cut was 2". They became the supports for the tube and were married to the vertical support. I cleaned up all sides, ends, and edges. Stained with minwax jocobean stain and let dry for 24 hours at 70 degrees. I picked up the 36" X 1/2" aluminum tube from home depot. I got a package of 5 water pipe support brackets from lowes to support the tube, of which I used two, saving the rest for the next stand, lol. I picked up 2 hex headed plated 1"x 3/8" bolts from home depot which after drilling with the correct drill size I then tapped the holes in the plastic brackets to fit the bolts which now hold the tube at the height I need, but can be easily raised or lowered if needed with just the twist of my finger for the correct firmness needed. I used some wood screws to hold it all together. The finish was just two good coats of a wood sanding sealer buffed with #0000 steel wool also from home depot. I did take the aluminum tube and chuck it in my drill and spin it while going up and down the length of it with a piece of wet 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper to inhance the finish on the tube. For the spout end I cut off the ends of a number of empty caulking tubes from work and carefully warmed them up with a heat gun set on low and then stretched them over a tool bolt/nut socket so they fit easily, but snugly onto the tube. (Do not attempt to sand the inside of the spout. It only makes it harder for the powder to slide through easily. ) The trays I use vary. Some are short and hold 5 shells others are longer and hold 10. The base is 11" x 13", the back is 4-1/2" x 13" the height of the drop is about 43". The funnel is a RCBS 22-45, which as soon as I locate a good looking and functionally fitting funnel will be replaced.
Lots of fun making this, good luck and have fun too.

238839

238840

238832

238833


Bolt hole drilled and tapped
238842

Bolt I used from Home Depot
238834

Tube supports from Lowe's, Home Depot did not have right one.
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[country gent]

The drop tube gets more powder in the case in a more consistent manner Making compressing more consistent from top to bottom. Getting a charge in the case so it can be compressed 1 time saves a lot of time over dropping part of the charge compress, drop rest of charge and compress. I use a 3ft drop tube with a slow trickle like pour. There a lot of difference in the charge heights between poured in with a funnel and the tube. You see a bigger difference with the coarser powders like 1F and 1 1/2F.
Years ago a writer was playing with a spiral drop tube with smokeless powders. A Pyrex tube heated and wound into a coil. A 36" drop tube only stood 20" tall or so. Stick powders were "alighned" thru the tube stacking tighter into the case. If I remember the tube was at around a 45* angle in the coil and about 1 1/2" in dia.

[Camper64]

Because, simply put...if you don't trickle, it won't fit.

Wow...some hi-tech stuff there! Brent, can you explain the electric gizmos for us weak-minded folks?

It took me awhile to figure that one out but I think it vibrates the metal arm that holds the top funnel. Small motor that is slightly out of balance when spinning. Can't tell what he put on the shaft to make it out of balance.

[Froogal]

Because, simply put...if you don't trickle, it won't fit.

Wow...some hi-tech stuff there! Brent, can you explain the electric gizmos for us weak-minded folks?

As a for instance. I have determined a .45 Colt shell will hold 1.6cc of 3F. I can use the LEE dipper of that size and put exactly 1.6cc directly into the shell. How is a drop tube going to help?

[BrentD]

The top funnel has a small aperture that slows the pour (so I don't have to pour the powder slowly). The motor vibrates so the powder in the top funnel does not bridge and clog.
The second funnel catches the powder from the first funnel and slides it down the tube which is spring loaded so it sits snugly on top of the case which is held in a depression in the bottom shaft.

The motor is a 3V DC motor I bought from Radio Shack when Radio Shack was a real place. You can find them on ebay and Amazon easily or order from RS on line. It has a 70 gr .25 caliber bullet mounted on the locking screw of the shaft collar so it makes things out of balance and the aluminum strap piece (Lowes) flexes as the motor vibrates. There is a battery pack for 2 Dcell batteries and a toggle switch thrown into the mix. The entire things C-clamps to a stable next to my loading bench (not on the bench as that screws with my balance).

Loading sequence is simply to drop a charge into a pan, weigh on the scale and adjust to 82.0 grns, then hit the switch on the drop tube and dump powder into the top funnel. While that trickles down, I am measuring and weighing the next charge and by the time the powder has settled in the shell, I am ready to pitch the next pan of powder into the top funnel.

The whole thing is probably over engineered but it makes loading go fast and it makes each case very uniformly packed and settled. Works like a charm and I would not be without it.

You could probably use an electric tooth brush or beard trimmer or other appliances for vibration, but this is what works for me.

[MT Chambers]

As a for instance. I have determined a .45 Colt shell will hold 1.6cc of 3F. I can use the LEE dipper of that size and put exactly 1.6cc directly into the shell. How is a drop tube going to help?

How did you determine that the scoop holds 1.6cc, and by the way stop using those dippers and using weights and measures that don't equate to anything. Chances are that the scoop would hold much more powder if it was properly drop tubed. Drop tubing compresses the whole powder column whereas compressing it with a die compresses the top of the charge most.

[Froogal]

How did you determine that the scoop holds 1.6cc, and by the way stop using those dippers and using weights and measures that don't equate to anything. Chances are that the scoop would hold much more powder if it was properly drop tubed. Drop tubing compresses the whole powder column whereas compressing it with a die compresses the top of the charge most.

If you don't use the dippers, or other means of weights and measures, how do you know how much powder to pour into the drop tube?

[Captain*Kirk]

As a for instance. I have determined a .45 Colt shell will hold 1.6cc of 3F. I can use the LEE dipper of that size and put exactly 1.6cc directly into the shell. How is a drop tube going to help?
Put your 1.66cc into a shell. Now pick up the shell and tap it lightly on your bench 20 times. You will now see there is extra room in the shell for more powder. This is the effect that trickling down a long tube has...it allows the powder to pack closely together rather than having air spaces between the kernels of powder. Putting that shell on a vibrating surface will give you the same effect.

Some amazing workmanship, guys. I am impressed!

[MOA]

As I mentioned in my post I have extra tube supports for another drop tube. I'll start that one next month, and I'm going to set it up to use my No. 5 black powder measure by Ideal mounted to the top of the tube. This is going to be another fun to do project. Will spend some time thinking about the type of wood and the stain on this one.
Maybe a nice rich red cedar stain to go with the black of the measure. Oh, here's the measure.

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[Captain*Kirk]

As I mentioned in my post I have extra tube supports for another drop tube. I'll start that one next month, and I'm going to set it up to use my No. 5 black powder measure by Ideal mounted to the top of the tube. This is going to be another fun to do project. Will spend some time thinking about the type of wood and the stain on this one.
Maybe a nice rich red cedar stain to go with the black of the measure. Oh, here's the measure.

238877

Very nice! That's a dedicated Black Powder measure, correct?
Thought about buying RCBS's version, but it's crazy expensive (I guess due to the brass used instead of plastic). I'd love to see the construction of your new measure/tube as you're building it.

[Froogal]

Put your 1.66cc into a shell. Now pick up the shell and tap it lightly on your bench 20 times. You will now see there is extra room in the shell for more powder. This is the effect that trickling down a long tube has...it allows the powder to pack closely together rather than having air spaces between the kernels of powder. Putting that shell on a vibrating surface will give you the same effect.

Some amazing workmanship, guys. I am impressed!

Yes! That is exactly how I determined that 1.6cc was sufficient.

[Captain*Kirk]

Yes! That is exactly how I determined that 1.6cc was sufficient.
Well, that being the case, all I can tell you is that trickling powder down a drop tube allows more into the case than pouring from your scale pan or a powder measure.
Try it and see.

[rfd]

drop tubes are all about powder *compaction*. the wad/powder compression comes next.

[Markopolo]

https://i.imgur.com/nMWL7sT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/N9vltG2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/OzmFUIO.jpg

Oh My Brent.... it is Aliveeeeeee.. very interesting..

[MOA]

Yes, this is an original black powder measure manufactured by Ideal in 1893, when black was the dominant powder in use. This powder drop will need to have a substantial vertical support that will incorporate the attachment of the powder measure. This measure is made of cast iron and brass.

[kokomokid]

Built one like Brents because I like to tinker. Have different funnels for each powder size. Example is delrin plugged funnel drilled out to .090 for swiss 3f . Have a mirror to see when the powder is all dropped.

[BrentD]

The mirror is an excellent upgrade!

May the next guy try a Bluetooth camera or a hovering drone. :)

[Edward]

Mine is simple 82 grains of OE 1 1/2F in my starline brass and the vibrator does triple duty works on compaction/ making designs on hair on deer hides/and my beard gets trimmed (infrequently) Ed
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[mazo kid]

I threw this together a few years ago to check out how it worked. Wish I had spent a little more time to make it look better, but it is what it is.
https://live.staticflickr.com/7899/32594929127_483e759e2a_z.jpg

[MOA]

Mazo, if it works, it's always a beauty.

[BrentD]

Sometimes, the hardest part of a drop tube is finding the funnel. My double funnel system has a plastic reloading funnel from the local gunshop, but the aluminum funnel came from a friend and I don't know where it was sourced.

Anyone out there have a good source for an aluminum or brass funnel?

[MOA]

Sometimes, the hardest part of a drop tube is finding the funnel. My double funnel system has a plastic reloading funnel from the local gunshop, but the aluminum funnel came from a friend and I don't know where it was sourced.

Anyone out there have a good source for an aluminum or brass funnel?

I got a couple of aluminum funnels online from ACE hardware a few years ago. I ordered three I think just because you never know when you won't be able to get them easily anymore.

[rfd]

i found my aluminum funnel in a local craft store for about $4. ebay has assortments of aluminum funnels, but pricey in the $20+ range.

[Captain*Kirk]

I threw this together a few years ago to check out how it worked. Wish I had spent a little more time to make it look better, but it is what it is.
https://live.staticflickr.com/7899/32594929127_483e759e2a_z.jpg

Mazo, looks great to me! I like the idea that you used a shellholder in the base...looks rock-solid.

[mazo kid]

Thanks Kirk, the shell holder is held in place with a set screw but it doesn't show well in the photo. I made my own funnel from thin brass sheet with a piece of copper tubing flared to help keep it in place while soldering. The "adaptor" to join the funnel to the drop tube is a cut-off piece of cartridge case, neck fits snugly in drop tube, funnel snugly in the body.

[Bent Ramrod]

You can get an idea of the degree of compaction by filling a couple shells both ways and then slowly turning them from vertical to horizontal over a dish. Depending on grain size, glazing and coarseness, you can usually tilt the tube-trickled loads a few degrees more below horizontal than the dumped-in charges. The former kind of lock together and come out in a heap, while the latter start pouring out as soon as you reach horizontal.

My drop tubes aren’t worth pictures. The cartridge loading one is two leftover pieces of copper swamp cooler tubing straightened out by pounding a steel rod through them, soldered together, with a scrap of copper sheet curled into a cone, soldered and soldered to the built-up tube for a funnel. I use a buret holder to hold it upright. Hideously ugly, but all that’s needed. The more elegant one is a carbon-fiber arrow shaft I found, pushed the end through a one-hole rubber stopper and the stopper crammed into a green RCBS powder funnel. I use that to trickle load my Parker-Hale Volunteer Rifle.

I search for paper joggers now and again; they would be great for compacting powder, but most of the ones I see, even used on Craig’s List, are ridiculously expensive. Used to use them at Work for getting the air bubbles out of propellant mixtures. Put a little vacuum over the container, start the buzzer, tune it to the right vibration mode, and the stuff would fizz like Alka-Seltzer. I would expect it would get the empty space out of a column of powder the same way.

[dirtball]

Simple, effective, 35" drop, took 15 min to build.
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[MOA]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so...
Let's see some pictures of your BPCR drop tubes!
Gonna be loading soon for .45/70, and possibly .44-40 WCF in BPCR, so need to concoct a drop tube. I have a pretty good *vague* idea of what I want to build, but actually seeing what works for others usually saves mistakes, headaches and wasted materials as well.
Whattya got?


Here's the start of the new powder drop made with 1/4" ID copper tubing. I've decided to do a spiral tube using a 2" rolling pin as the form. This will give me a 34" tube drop in a 22" distance. I took a large sheet of paper and drew a line at a 45 degree angle that was 34" in length and then rolled it around the 2" rolling pin so I could follow the line around the form with the copper tube. The tube angle should stay at the 45 degree angle which should allow the powder to fall and compact at the bottom. The tube was crimped at one end and then filled with solder and then the tube was filled with water so it would not collapse when being wound around the form. The other end was crimped but not soldered, I didn't think enough water would leak out while winding the form to collapse the form, and I had the un-soldered end up at the top and not at the bottom,(which it didn't when I wrapped it.) The top was taped to keep that section straight and the bottom end was also kept straight to facilitate the pour. I now can measure how long the vertical support needs to be and put together the base support and all the tube clamps. More images to follow. See the Projects thread for the images of this build and the completion of this BP spiral drop tube.

[BrentD]

MOA, I think the spiral defeats the purpose of a drop tube, but maybe not. I'd like to see powder column heights for that AND a 22" straight tube.

[MOA]

MOA, I think the spiral defeats the purpose of a drop tube, but maybe not. I'd like to see powder column heights for that AND a 22" straight tube.

BrentD, you might be correct, but I won't know til I try it. The velocity of the powder may not be high enough to compact it like a straight tube will. I'll have a better idea tomorrow when I start so see how it flows through the spiral. Hopefully my fried right thumb is usable. I inadvertently got my thumb into the torch flame for just a second while trying to get some solder into the crimped end when the tube turned and I reached for it. Ouch bigly. So tomorrow I will have a idea how it drops. Stay tuned.

[Lead pot]

Brent I found this one at Scheels down the road from you.

239747

My drop tubes are nothing fancy, Just a funnel on one end of a 3/8"OD (1/4" ID) type K copper tube with a 5/8" OD x 3/8" OD sweat reducer on the other end.

239746

I just set the sweat reducer on the case and trickle the powder from the powder pan into the funnel and tap the funnel with the powder pan to make sure the powder did not bridge.

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Kurt

[country gent]

My last drop tube was 3' of 3/8 od brass tubing. I used a 270 WSM case with the head cut off. Epoxied it on but you could use a 4' length of 1/4" threaded rod and bolt it in place and then solder it. Neck sets into case and shoulder is just over 1/2 dia so it centers the case nicely. A little work with a case trimmer you can remove most of the short neck pretty quickly

[rfd]

anti gravity drag from a spiral tube will slow the bp grain velocity. you want the bp to free fall from the full effect of gravity. a bp drop tube is actually an aiming device, no more or less.

[BrentD]

I inadvertently got my thumb into the torch flame for just a second while trying to get some solder into the crimped end when the tube turned and I reached for it. Ouch bigly..


Good luck!

8

[Carrier]

Brent I found this one at Scheels down the road from you.

239747

My drop tubes are nothing fancy, Just a funnel on one end of a 3/8"OD (1/4" ID) type K copper tube with a 5/8" OD x 3/8" OD sweat reducer on the other end.

239746

I just set the sweat reducer on the case and trickle the powder from the powder pan into the funnel and tap the funnel with the powder pan to make sure the powder did not bridge.

239748

Kurt


That looks just like the one I made.

[mazo kid]

You can get small brass funnels quite reasonably from Cash Mfg. Co.
http://www.tdcmfgstore.com/agora.cgi

[rfd]

You can get small brass funnels quite reasonably from Cash Mfg. Co.
http://www.tdcmfgstore.com/agora.cgi

the largest i'd seen at their site is 1-1/2" diameter - too small.

[mazo kid]

Depends on your point of view. I find that size quite adequate as I pour the charge very slowly into the funnel, from either a dipper, adjustable powder measure, or the powder scale cup. I don't have a TDC funnel, but my home-made one is about that size.

[rfd]

1-1/2" diameter funnel bell can allow bp grains to hop out during the trickle down. also, i want a funnel that has some height so as the grains bop the funnel side, they're headed down to the funnel's end. got an alum one years ago in the sorta town general store for about $4, i believe. 2-3/4" inside the top bell. epoxied to a 29" alum arrow shaft.

https://i.imgur.com/STYLFAf.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/DpzOkRP.jpg

[mazo kid]

I can see where the deeper sides would be easier to use. I have a couple of aluminum arrow shafts, will have to see about finding (or making) another funnel about that size.

[indian joe]

I can see where the deeper sides would be easier to use. I have a couple of aluminum arrow shafts, will have to see about finding (or making) a funnel about that size.

When you are setting it up run a cleaning brush dipped in powdered graphite end to end down the tube - helps heaps to stop bridging and speed up the flow.

[mazo kid]

When you are setting it up run a cleaning brush dipped in powdered graphite end to end down the tube - helps heaps to stop bridging and speed up the flow.
And gets rid of spiderwebs! The funnel I made has steeply sloping sides so helps keep the powder going down. I also just found a set of 3 different sized stainless funnels, largest one is close to 3" diameter. Found them on eBay for $4.00 for the set. Of course I'll have to wait a couple of weeks for them to come from China, but I'm in no hurry.

[country gent]

When I make a drop tube I polish the inside of the tube with 800 up to 1500 grit paper flaps then flitz or simichrome on soft flannel. This gives a mirror smooth finish and removes burrs and smooths rough areas from the extrusion process. only takes a couple passes with each grit and a few mins with the polish.

Funnels can be turned up but its a lot of wasted metals doing so. With a little layout and forming one can be bent formed from sheet stock that does the job.
Set a divider to 1 1/2" to 1 3/4" ( this is actually 3-3 1/2) draw an arc on paper then set the divider to 1/2 of tube dia and draw a second arc using the same center both 180* connect ends of arcs and match edges together f this is what you want you have the template for your funnel in shim stock of brass aluminum steel or plastic. Add a 1/4" to each edge for a fold over lap joint form and fit joint solder.

[mazo kid]

That's about how I made my funnel. Good idea about polishing the interior of the drop tube, I can still do that to mine.

[rfd]

after a few hundred drops of bp the funnel and tube interiors will be nicely graphite coated - no need for polishing.