How much foaming bore cleaner do I have to use???

[Tripplebeards]

After re bluing the other day I looked down the barrel of one of the lee enfield my buddy gave me. It was the 1942 Canadian. I saw orange rust about an inch down the barrel. I immediately grabbed my dewy rod and scrubbed it about a good 20 times dry. Dust comming out the muzzle as expected...but not a lot. I then grabbed gunslick foaming bore cleaner and sprayed it in. About a half hour later I sprayed in more and solid midnight blue foam cam out the barrel. I reapplied two more times in an hour with the same results. I then srubbed it with the dewy a good 20/40 times and Putin more foam. It came out black the first two foam sprays then solid dark blue angain. I repeated all the steps in order again with the same results and left it overnight. I’m not in fear that foaming bore cleaner going to etch my barrel...imo it’s too weak of a product. I sprayed more in this morning and solid midnight blue foam came out again! I let it set for 20 minutes and scrubbed it till the brass brush unscrewed itself and then sprayed in more foam. White foam with black on it came out. I’m sure after 20 minutes it will be blue again with the next application. That rifle must have seen service! How many times am I going to have to foam the barrel before it cleans out? I’ve never seen that much blue come out of a barrel ever. My varmint guns maybe two foams, three max, and the blue is out...and that’s from a two to three hundred round session.

[lefty o]

it all depends on how many layers of crud have been put into the bore over the years. your probably dealing with something that has had decades of poor cleaning. lots of people run a patch of hoppes thru their bore, dry it, and think they have cleaned their barrel. the end result being layers of fouling that need to be removed.

[ShooterAZ]

Overnight soak, scrubbing, repeat. It'll come clean eventually. Shooting it will help too, believe it or not. Put the foam in the bore when the barrel is still warm. I like using Hoppe's #9 too, because it's fine to leave it in the bore for long soaks.

[Dancing Bear]

After re bluing the other day I looked down the barrel of one of the lee enfield my buddy gave me. It was the 1942 Canadian. I saw orange rust about an inch down the barrel. I immediately grabbed my dewy rod and scrubbed it about a good 20 times dry. Dust comming out the muzzle as expected...but not a lot. I then grabbed gunslick foaming bore cleaner and sprayed it in. About a half hour later I sprayed in more and solid midnight blue foam cam out the barrel. I reapplied two more times in an hour with the same results. I then srubbed it with the dewy a good 20/40 times and Putin more foam. It came out black the first two foam sprays then solid dark blue angain. I repeated all the steps in order again with the same results and left it overnight. I’m not in fear that foaming bore cleaner going to etch my barrel...imo it’s too weak of a product. I sprayed more in this morning and solid midnight blue foam came out again! I let it set for 20 minutes and scrubbed it till the brass brush unscrewed itself and then sprayed in more foam. White foam with black on it came out. I’m sure after 20 minutes it will be blue again with the next application. That rifle must have seen service! How many times am I going to have to foam the barrel before it cleans out? I’ve never seen that much blue come out of a barrel ever. My varmint guns maybe two foams, three max, and the blue is out...and that’s from a two to three hundred round session.

Putin is your problem.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

We may be looking at some collusion here......

Seriously, foaming bore cleaner is a plus and a minus. I've used Sweet's 7.62 cleaner for some of the more difficult jobs, and aside from the ammonia smell, it works pretty well. It's something you have to stay with. Run a saturated patch back and forth until the bore is good and wet, and then run a couple of dry ones through about 15 minutes later, repeat as necessary. Some guys claim you can harm your bore by leaving it in overnight. I've done that a couple of times, but the bores were already pretty bad, and there didn't seem to be much to lose. Usually by morning the application had dried out, and I had to use more to get the previous application out, but lots of crud came with it. When they're that bad a phosphor bronze or tornado bore brush will help a lot.

[goryshaw]

My last milsurp rifle project was a Brazilian Model 1912 Mauser in 7x57. Metal and wood looked decent, but the bore was black. A couple patches of Ed's Red followed by Patch Out didn't make a dent. Ended up making an EBC with an old cell phone charger. Took a number of 5 minute passes with more patches between treatments, but eventually it stopped getting black **** coating the rod. Bore is still rather dark, but patches come out fairly clean now.

[Tripplebeards]

Putin is your problem.

Yeah saw that n didn’t correct it “ put in” lol

I gave up this morning and ran dry patches through it and headed to a friends shop to borrow a tap to thread s screw for the front sight. When I got back I started in on the bore foam again. Ill keep foaming and scrubbing. The foam wasn’t nearly as dark blue as it was yesterday or this morning on round two.

[uscra112]

Just using Shooter's Choice I have spent two weeks of twice-daily treatments getting all the copper out of a milsurp.

[500Linebaughbuck]

it took me about a week using gunslick foaming bore cleaner to get my krag's barrel nice and clean.

[cwlongshot]

I like the foams and gels. They stay in contact and dont “run” away as easily. Your getting “blue” out so its working for ya!

But I agree with Der G, Sweets is my go too for copper fouling.

Keep at it, it will come out!

CW

[higgins]

Some of these old military rifles have never been cleaned with an effective copper remover, unless an armorer used ammonia or something else like that. I'm sure there are exceptions (never say always or never when discussing military rifles, ammo, etc.), but I believe most military-issued bore cleaners were designed to remove loose powder fouling and leave a protective coating in the bore. Years ago I cleaned a few Enfields and Springfields with Sweets 7.62, and I couldn't believe how long it took to get all the jacket fouling out.

[Tripplebeards]

lol. Day three and still blue. I’ve been foaming twice in row then scrubbing nonstop for a couple minutes with a bronze blush. Never seen so much or dark blue foam ever. No wonder when I did some reading the average person shot 4 MOA with these and the best shooters were 2 MOA. I bet there wasn’t one on the planet that didn’t have copper build up in it until good products Came out to remove them about 2 decades ago.

[goryshaw]

Do you have a non-bronze brush to try? The brass in the brush can give you a false positive.

[Patrick L]

Also, IMO some Milsurps I'm convinced will NEVER be totally copper free. I'd say if it shoots ok, just leave it at that.

There's also the Foul Out option, if you want. I don't.

[Tripplebeards]

Well the foam finally is coming out clean the last two fills! Three days and tons of scrubbing. I was thinking my brass/ bronze brush could have been causing some of the blue discoloring in the foam as well. Time to move onto the other two rifles. The 1907 is at the LGS. I’m sure it’s going to be just as bad or worse. I’ll do the 1917 Winchester next. It may have took some time but I sure like foam. It basically does all or most the work for you in most cases and saves tons of swabbing time.





http://i.imgur.com/jRTVwL9.jpg

[EDG]

You can easily remove all the copper if you give it a little more time.
Wipe the bore with fresh Hoppes #9 and leave it a week or 2. Then brush it, wipe with wet patches and put it up again for several more days. It may take several applications over a month with a badly fouled barrel but Hoppes will eventually corrode the copper and cause it to come loose.

[Walks]

I had a friends son shoot 200rds of max .22-250 out of a Howa Varmint rifle in about 5min. I had to scrub with Hoppe's #9 3 times a day for 2 weeks until I FINALLY got out a clean patch. That was a lot of soaking

Of course this was 35yrs ago. We didn't have all the spiffy products that we do today for cleaning. Kid ended up with a burn scar clear across his palm from the HOT BBL.

Safety Note: When you are working on a gun at the range with your back to your kid, and it's really busy and loud. Look over your shoulder to see what your 10yr old is doing.

[Gtek]

Back in the gun of the month club glory Mil-Surp days when a new one came to live with me I had a little process, this long before these fancy foam days. Strip weapon to naked barrel receiver and strap up vertical to something out back, picnic table worked great had table area. Made plug for muzzle using tapered cork plug with about a 3/32" hole, Tygon to fit chamber (IIRC 1/4" ID) and connect to funnel. Rolling boil tea pot full of water and pour through bore, yes barrel too hot to hold. Then push bore cleaner after quick evaporation dry had completed and let sit. I don't know if it helped in real time but thinking was different metals different expansion/contraction stuff. Later in life I have moved to Nylon brushes and patches in most cases with established bores, figured out I was chasing bronze brush to many times with aggressive cleaners. Then one buys a nice bore scope for a full on mind melt, oh the webs we weave!

[Tripplebeards]

I just ran more foam through it again...just because. The foam is clean white. All out.

[EDG]

The easiest clean out I ever had was when I ran a cotton rope into a fouled bore. I soaked it with Hoppe's #9 and left it wet over a week end. The constant contact with the Hoppe's removed the fouling with almost no scrubbing.

[Pirate69]

Lot of good information in the posts above. Lots of different methods of cleaning a barrel that end up with the same results; a barrel cleaned to the satisfaction of the owner.

I have cleaned a lot of barrels over the last 40 years and have used a number of different approaches. I am satisfied that I have a clean barrel when I can soak a barrel with Hoppes Bench Rest, a mild copper remover, over night and not see any copper coloration the next day on a clean patch.

For a heavy powder fouled barrel, I usually start by removing as much of the powder fouling as possible before I worry to much about the copper. I use a good powder solvent, soak and brush (bronze at this time) and repeat until patches look pretty clean. Sometimes it looks like the barrel has blown its nose. Still have the copper to deal with. I have also used Kroil Oil as the solvent in some cases when I feel there may be a lot of copper to deal with. I have heard that the Kroil Oil may penetrate below the copper and help to break it free in microscopic pieces rather than having to dissolve it out later. Can't say this is true but it can't hurt to try.

Once I have a clean patch, powder wise, I work on the copper. I have done it a number of ways. Sometimes I pour a little ammonia cleaning solution in a cup and add a couple of drops of liquid detergent to break the surface tension in the barrel. Place the end of the barrel in the cup and use a patch on a rod to scrub the barrel. With each upstroke, solution is pulled up into the barrel. The color of the ammonia solution will quickly turn blue if copper is present. Ten to 15 minutes will really start the removal process. The longer the better. Dry, brush scrub, clean with alcohol or solvent to remove the water. Do an overnight test to see how much color appears on a patch. Repeat as necessary or do something different.

I have also used Sweets on powder clean barrels. I usually do the patch scrub and soak for 15 minutes and then run patches through to clean. Once I see that the cleaning patches have no color I am satisfied. Just take time. Not too concerned with more than 15 minutes soaking with well used barrels but would be careful to avoid doing this with a match grade barrel if I were cleaning one. It will give you a copper clean barrel with enough effort.

In some cases, I have used the Foul Out unit; especially if I can see some rust in the barrel. If you will dump the solution after the first hour, you will see the red-yellow color of the rust. Gets if out before the iron is further reduced to a form that is more difficult to remove. Unit works good for copper removal. May require removing the rod and sanding the copper off if there if more copper than can be plated on the rod during one session is present. As a final check, once you think you are through, do a solvent soak and scrub, clean and try unit again. Sometime you will find that there is still some powder residue covering the copper. Just need to ensure good electrical contact of the leads or you end up with water in the barrel for an extend period of time with not removal being performed. System works well but requires attention.

As stated before, there are a number of ways to get a clean barrel. These are the ways I have gone about getting clean barrels. I have been schooled by this Site that the best way to shoot lead and minimize leading, is do it with a copper free barrel. I have "drank the KoolAid." My cleaning does nothing to improve the physical condition of a barrel but does allow me to get the best out of what it can deliver.