Use small words please!

[Burnt Fingers]

I'm having problems with Hi-Tek being scraped off of my boolits while seating them. I've tried a custom Dillon powder funnel and a Lyman M die. I'd like to try a NOE expander plug but I'm totally lost when it comes to figuring out which one.

I'm sizing my 9mm boolits to .357 but might have to go to .358.

I've been fighting this leading problem for several months and finally figured it out. The coating is being scraped off during seating. Now I need to attempt to fix that.

Thanks.

[Baltimoreed]

Bell the case more [move your expander to go into the case a little deeper], you could also try and chamfer the inside of the case mouth to help the bullet slide in without the sharp edge scraping your coating off. But you’re going the wrong way if you size the boolits bigger.

[onelight]

I have found that if cases are not properly chamfered they require more flare also your case expander should be about 1 thousandth less than bullet size.
There are people here that know a lot more than I do perhaps they will chime in.

[Wheelguns 1961]

The last time I looked at exp plugs, the largest 9mm plug that NOE sold was .360- .356. I have used this with excellent results in 9mm with both .357 and .358 bullets. Have you tried the smash test on your bullets? I have never used hi-tek, just powdercoat, but you may also have a problem there.

[megasupermagnum]

Some guys claim you can just expand more, yet it will not work with any caliber I have loaded. Chamfer the case mouth. It doesn't have to be deep, you just have to break the sharp edge.

[onelight]

The last time I looked at exp plugs, the largest 9mm plug that NOE sold was .360- .356. I have used this with excellent results in 9mm with both .357 and .358 bullets. Have you tried the smash test on your bullets? I have never used hi-tek, just powdercoat, but you may also have a problem there.

I have used a lot of HI-TEK 32 38/357 44 45acp and colt with only the slightest Leading in one Ruger 45 colt it’s good stuff and 9 and 40 also

[Kenstone]

Posting a pic of an expanded case with a bullet in it will answer most all the questions posted here.
Then we can advise how to proceed...I'm guessing you will need to lower that M die for more expansion/flare.
[smilie=f:

[Burnt Fingers]

The M die is bottomed out. There's no more adjustment in it on my Dillon 650.

I really don't want to have to chamfer my 9mm brass. I shoot/reload ~500 rounds a week of the stuff.

My boolits pass all the tests, smash and acetone.

The measured bore on my Canik is .356. If I size to .358 I can also use the same boolits in my 586 and my Colt Officer's Target.

I'll get some pictures tomorrow.

[mdi]

Scraping/ shaving bullets while seating indicates the bullet does not have sufficient "entry way" into the case. Using a too large "M" style expander will loosen some neck tension and result i problems with loose bullets. I have been reloading over 35 years and adding more flare is not that big a deal. The limit of a flare is the seating die. A case flared too much will scrape the ID of the die or stop the case from entering the die in extreme cases. For a newer reloader with shaving problems I suggest they use as much flare as needed to get good shootable ammo now, and worry about case life later (most centerfire brass is readily available and fairly inexpensive. And how much does a large flare reduce case life? 10%?, 20%?).

[Kenstone]

The M die is bottomed out. There's no more adjustment in it on my Dillon 650.

I really don't want to have to chamfer my 9mm brass. I shoot/reload ~500 rounds a week of the stuff.

My boolits pass all the tests, smash and acetone.

The measured bore on my Canik is .356. If I size to .358 I can also use the same boolits in my 586 and my Colt Officer's Target.

I'll get some pictures tomorrow.

"The M die is bottomed out"
Does that mean the outside of the die is hitting the shell plate?
And/Or the center (expander) is bottomed out into the threads of the die body?
Using the M die requires you powder drop in another station, correct?
So...
1) size/de-prime
2) prime/expand M die
3) Powder drop
4) Seat/crimp

Do you seat and crimp separately??
Is there visibly scraped off coating piled up on the case mouth/edge on a finished round?
I guess I can wait for the pics to answer those questions...
:smile:
edit: If the M die BODY is "bottomed out" because the nut is hitting the top of the press...remove the nut and you can screw the die BODY further down for more flare, screw the nut onto the die Body UNDER the die plate(use a Dillion nut).

[T_McD]

Now that you have identified the problem it should be an easy fix. Just flare the case to where the bullet easily rests in the case (like to the bevel base if it has one). Then seat. Don’t crimp as one in not needed.

I would load a dummy round with no primer or powder and pull it. If the bullet looks good after pulling, then problem solved.

[Baltimoreed]

I don’t know what your ‘m’ die is but the expander is what needs to get deeper into the case assuming there is a step or flaring on it that will open your case mouth a few thou. I’ve shortened dies with a belt sander for experiments but the expander stem is the issue I believe. Using my plain jane rcbs carbide pistol sizer dies if I need more flare on my case I just screw down the expander, I dont screw down the die. Sounds like you shoot a bunch, ie reload a bunch. Just a matter of adjusting your equipment for pc. Pix will help.

[onelight]

If you are used to reloading plated or jacketed bullets you can often get by with a less flare than you can cast , my cast are 1 to 2 thousandths larger and damage more easily so need more flare
I don’t champher my 9s I may not make it home with the same ones twice in row. But if the corner of the mouth touches the bullet when seating it will scrape.

[Taterhead]

If the case mouth has sufficient flare, then 1 of 2 problems are in play.

1) the seating die is closing the case mouth while seating is in process. Turn the seating die body out more so that the case mouth does not contact the crimp profile of the die body. Or,

2) the bullet is seating crookedly. Set it straighter and/or select a seating stem that mates better with the bullet profile.

With NOE plugs, select a handgun size where the bullet diameter is between the higher and lower dimensions of the plug. The greater dimension of the plug signifies the amount of M flare. Should be > bullet diameter. The lower diameter sets neck tension. Should be < bullet diameter.

[sigep1764]

Who made your custom powder thru expander? LatheSmith made mine for an SDB and I now use it in my 550. I have no issues with it and 358 9mm boolits. Expand the brass deep enough to where the seating die just barely seats the boolit. Then back the taper crimp die out. Then just turn the crimp die down enough to just remove the flare. Pull the boolit and the boolit should measure the same as before you seated it.

[Wayne Smith]

Just a thought - You are aware that Lyman makes two die sizes for the M die? You do have the short die body??

[Ole Joe Clarke]

What he said. (Baltimoreed that is)

Have a blessed day,

Leon

[ioon44]

I'm having problems with Hi-Tek being scraped off of my boolits while seating them. I've tried a custom Dillon powder funnel and a Lyman M die. I'd like to try a NOE expander plug but I'm totally lost when it comes to figuring out which one.

I'm sizing my 9mm boolits to .357 but might have to go to .358.

I've been fighting this leading problem for several months and finally figured it out. The coating is being scraped off during seating. Now I need to attempt to fix that.

Thanks.

One problem I had with loading 9 mm was my sizer die was sizing the brass down to .350" id , so no mater what my expander did the brass would spring back enough to be a problem. Even loading .355" jacketed bullets the round came out looking like a Coke bottle.

As others have said bell the cased as large as will go on to the seating die. if this is still a problem the you might want to look at changing die brands. I size my Hi-Tek coated 9 mm bullets to .3575" and shoot several different 9 mm guns with any problems.

[Lloyd Smale]

id bet most of people having problems like this have there seating/crimping die set wrong. You need to chamfer and flare the case but it does no good if your dies are set so that crimping is starting before the bullet is all the way seated. Best cure for it is to seat and crimp at different stations. buy yourself a second seating die and pull the seating plug out of it and use it just to crimp in a final operation.

[gareth96]

Hummm.. Thanks for the idea Baltimireed.. I'm sitting here (don't ask where) reading this with my own problem. I just got my NOE expanders for 9mm and 45ACP. Tried the 9mm yesterday in the Lee Universal Expander and the die bottoms out on the shell plate (Hornady LnL AP) before I get any flare. So may be doing some sanding later.

[Baltimoreed]

Just looked at a pix of your lee die. Does the little expander thingy float or it locked in place by the threaded top part? If it floats add a spacer between the two parts, cut a piece of a dowel.

[Burnt Fingers]

"The M die is bottomed out"
Does that mean the outside of the die is hitting the shell plate?
And/Or the center (expander) is bottomed out into the threads of the die body?
Using the M die requires you powder drop in another station, correct?
So...
1) size/de-prime
2) prime/expand M die
3) Powder drop
4) Seat/crimp

Do you seat and crimp separately??
Is there visibly scraped off coating piled up on the case mouth/edge on a finished round?
I guess I can wait for the pics to answer those questions...
:smile:
edit: If the M die BODY is "bottomed out" because the nut is hitting the top of the press...remove the nut and you can screw the die BODY further down for more flare, screw the nut onto the die Body UNDER the die plate(use a Dillion nut).

I do seat and crimp in separate stations. There is some visible coating and lead on the case mouth.


Who made your custom powder thru expander? LatheSmith made mine for an SDB and I now use it in my 550. I have no issues with it and 358 9mm boolits. Expand the brass deep enough to where the seating die just barely seats the boolit. Then back the taper crimp die out. Then just turn the crimp die down enough to just remove the flare. Pull the boolit and the boolit should measure the same as before you seated it.

I purchased it from UniqueTek


Just a thought - You are aware that Lyman makes two die sizes for the M die? You do have the short die body??

I was not. I've got several M dies. I'll compare bodies. Maybe I can do a swap.

[sparky45]

Why not add a little spray lube to the bullet such as Hornady's One Shot. That along with a flare on the case should solve your problem.

[Burnt Fingers]

It's official, I'm a complete and total idiot.

I checked my M dies, I have three, one for .357, one for .38, and one for 9mm. Sure enough I had a short M die body on the 9mm head. I put the long die body on the 9mm head and now I have enough adjustment in the M die.

I dropped my Dillon powder measure a bit to give more flare.

Problem solved....except for ONE boolit. The NOE HTC359-129-TC. It was still scraping lead and Hi-Tek off the boolit. So with a lot of trepidation I dropped the Dillon powder measure a bit more. It's more flare than I've ever used on a pistol case but it works. I can now seat that NOE boolit and all my other 9mm boolits and keep the coating intact. I must have seated and pulled 70-80 boolits to verify that everything was working.

I loaded up a sample group of the 9mm boolits I plan to use the most. Now I just need to hit the range and see if I've solved my leading problem.

Thanks for all the help and the hints. Sometimes it's the little things that bite ya on the butt.

[onelight]

Glad you found a fix . I really like the Hi-tek coated bullets , myself and 2 of my shooting buddies shoot a lot of them one has 5 or six glocks they work well in all our guns.

[Conditor22]

.358 is OK for a .356 bore if it shoots well, I've had good luck with .3575

[Baltimoreed]

Sometimes ya just gotta read the directions. Glad to hear you figured it out before grinding on stuff.

[468]

Ya gotta be able to laugh at yourself.

[leadhead]

If your using the Lee powder through die, and using .358 diameter
bullets... buy the Lee .38 S&W bushing for the die and you won't
have "shaving" problems. It expands the 9mm case a little deeper
and is a couple thousands bigger in diameter. Works like a dream.
Denny

[Burnt Fingers]

If your using the Lee powder through die, and using .358 diameter
bullets... buy the Lee .38 S&W bushing for the die and you won't
have "shaving" problems. It expands the 9mm case a little deeper
and is a couple thousands bigger in diameter. Works like a dream.
Denny


I'm not using the Lee.

I thought I had beat this leading machine. I was wrong. Cleaned the pistol today and there was a ton of lead in the barrel. Another member says he has the same gun and feels it's the sharp transition to the rifling. The barrel needs to be throated but it's a hardened barrel and Doug can't do those.

[Conditor22]

You have/had 2 problems:
1 shaved coating while seating the boolit - you seem to have fixed this
2 leading from the boolit
BF did you pull a loaded boolit and check the diameter?
A lot of people have problems with the 9mm due to the tapered case and the tendency to over crimp.

I never played with the M dies but have a good selection of NOE expanders.

Before NOE I used the Lee powder through die to expand and flare then only crimped enough so that when I pushed the cartridge against my loading bench the boolit didn't move. IF it didn't pass the dropp test I would barely "kiss it" with the Lee factory crimp die.

The softer the boolit the more likely it will be downsized.

[Burnt Fingers]

I have pulled boolits. They are not being swaged down.

It seems the problem is the sharp transition from the chamber to the rifling is shaving the boolit.

This makes sense since the leading is very even all around the bore.

[Conditor22]

Maybe DougGuy will weigh in, this is more up his alley.

[Dan Cash]

The M die is bottomed out. There's no more adjustment in it on my Dillon 650.

I really don't want to have to chamfer my 9mm brass. I shoot/reload ~500 rounds a week of the stuff.

My boolits pass all the tests, smash and acetone.

The measured bore on my Canik is .356. If I size to .358 I can also use the same boolits in my 586 and my Colt Officer's Target.

I'll get some pictures tomorrow.

You might consider a good bullet sizing and lubrication program and forget the paint.

[Burnt Fingers]

You might consider a good bullet sizing and lubrication program and forget the paint.

I don't think that will help much with the rifling shaving the bullet.