barrel cleaning

[jballs918]

ok guys i know a ton of you all shoot milsurs, so i throwing this question out to all you. i have a sks, a k31, and a m38. im in the process of cleaning all the barrels on these, my k31 is much done, but my sks is a mess i cant get a clean patch yet and i have ran about 60 thru and it almost half a bottle of hoppes 9 thru it. i have read alot about poeple using this and that. i was wondering if anyone had a good cleaner they could tell me what to use if not i eed to take a more tuffer arouch to this. thanks
jason

[Bass Ackward]

Jason,

I don't really fall for new cleaners until they have proven themselves. The single best cleaner I have ever found is car polish. Just watch the brand so it doesn't have anything abrasive in it.

You just put it in and let it soak. It is designed to disolve tar and road scum. Sound familar? Then just patch it out after a few minutes. It won't remove any metal fouling though and you will need to follow up with something that does. If you want to see how it works, take a rifle you "thought" you cleaned and use it.

Flitz Rifle / Gun Wax is EXCELLENT but over priced because it is for firearms. It can be used on metal or wood and I tested bare metal for rust in snow for over two weeks. Since it is made with Bees wax and Carnuba, you can forget about fouling first shots.

[versifier]

As you didn't mention one, maybe part of the problem is that you don't have a bore brush? I'm partial to Shooters Choice for copper fouling. It's important to have a bronze brush (not nylon) that fits the bore, and NEVER reverse it inside the barrel, one direction all the way through, then one direction all the way back. If you try to scrub back and forth with it, it will shed bristles and be useless very quickly. Put an empty plastic milk jug or soda bottle over the muzzle of a bolt rifle to keep the solvent from spraying all over everything - some of them will do a number on the stock's finish. :shock: Outer's Foul Out is a great system for those rifles that nothing else seems to work on. ;)

[StarMetal]

Actually you don't need a brush with a jacket solvent and if you use one, a brass or bronze one, you can't really tell if the bluish green is from the jackets or the brush. I use a bronze brush first with a bore cleaner, then followed by either a nylon brush or patch with jacket solvent...that is if I shot jacketed.

Joe

[versifier]

You're right Joe, if you start off brushing. But if the patch is green and it won't come clean, I think the plastic brush is useless.
I still shoot a lot of jacketed; some of my guns prefer them. I generally try to give every gun a fair trial with both, and have no use for one that won't shoot either. I also load for a lot of people with them, either Sierras Matchkings for the serious target shooters or GameKings / Nosler PARs for the hunters. Try as I might, I just can't get the idea of cast across to many rifle shooters, except the .30-30 crowd. The handgun shooters all seem to go for them, though, even if just for economy. M/L shooters like them, too, and drive me nuts (not that I need a ride there) to cast them a bunch come September and October when they remember they shot them all last fall. Two out of three ain't bad, and I'll keep trying. :roll:

[bascom32423]

The best copper foulding remover that I have found is one that I prepare myself. I buy 10%Ammonium Hydroxide from Ace Hardware. It's their janitorial strength ammonia. I then prepare an approximately 85% Ammonia plus 10-15% Triethanolamine mix by volume. The TEA is a very strong base by itself. Now, passing wet patches through the fouled bore will remove the copper fouling quickly. As a bonus, after the ammonia evaporates, the TEA will remain. This material serves multiple purposes. It will neutralize any acid compounds that come to the surface and the TEA will act as a rust inhibitor.

This concoction will NOT do a very good job of removing powder fouling. I then revert to the other well know powder fuuling removers.

The Ammonia/TEA mix is great and inexpensive.


Good luck,
Henry

[Char-Gar]

When I get a new rifle, I start cleaning with Ed's Red. I have never found a better powder solvent althought it won't do squat on metal fouling. Anyway, when I have cleaned the power residue out with Ed's Red, I switch to Sweets 7.62 and take the metal fouling out. Then I do another cleaning with Ed's Red as the Sweets may uncover some more powde residue in the process.

Cleaning a used mil surp rifle can indeed be a chore. That is the reason, I clean on a regular basis thereafter. I don't want to have to do it again.

[JSH]

Well I will chime in here and say that I have pretty much done away with all the scrubbing and such, very messy. I tried some stuff called Wipeout. I don't know what is in it but it is not as mean on metal as the ammonia based solvents. I thought I had some very clean bores on most all of my guns, this stuff proved me wrong very quick. I have a 7-30TC that has had a steady diet of FLGC fodder that shoots very nicely. I cleaned it the wya I have from day one with Kroil followed with a patch or two of JB and then a couple of more patches of Kroil.
The wipe out showed up on the bench and the 7-30 was the first victim. I shot some in there AFTER I had cleaned as I normally would have. Let it set about an hour. Came back and ran a clean patch through it,, it came out as blue as if you had poured ink on it. I started after several other guns same results. I then went after my CB stuff, just to see what copper was left from years past.
Long story short it will change your point of impact.
It will clean all of the copper fouling out so as to make CB's shoot some what better. If you get rust, it is from my experiance that the Wipeout gets the bore clean down into the pores, so a pass of oiled rag should be done.
Also on the wipeout and similar cleaners, you will have better luck to get the carbon fouling out.
Then make a pass with somthing that will get the petroleum based stuff out, I have used brake cleaner and now use plain old rubbing alchol.
Then shot your bore cleaner in there and let it set.
The first time is the worse and it just gets easeier from there.
This is just my experiance and I have tried a bunch of copper solvents. The wipeout is the first I have used that worked as advertised. Most all of the others seemed to always leave a hint of blue. No, it wasn't my jag as I use a nylon tip when using the more aggressive solvents.
Jeff

[jballs918]

well i want down to wally world and got me a big bottle of acidtone. i guess i may have been doing this the wrong, i think i have only been kill the power foul, not the copper. i really need to find some sweed 762 for powder fouling i guess. so wish me luck.

[StarMetal]

When acetone is put in a Ed Red's formula it's for dissolving the plastic residue that may be left in say shotgun barrels from the shotwads. That's the only reason, although I would imagine it might cut powder residue. If you do use it you have to becareful not to get it on your stock finish. It may remove it.

When you are going to use a metal fouling remover likee Sweets it's adviseable to first clean the powder fouling with something like Hoppe's #9, then let the Sweets or whatever you choose use do it work on just the jacket fouling.

Just my two cents.

Joe

[Scrounger]

[QUOTE=jballs918]well i want down to wally world and got me a big bottle of acidtone. i guess i may have been doing this the wrong, i think i have only been kill the power foul, not the copper. i really need to find some sweed 762 for powder fouling i guess. so wish me luck.[/QUOTE

"Sweets" is only one of several available copper removers; Hoppe's, Barnes, and Shooter's Choice are other brands of copper removers I have used. Their main ingredient is ammonia and one works as well as another in my book. One of those should be available in a gun shop near you or from Midway.

[anachronism]

You really need to try Butch's Bore Shine. I'd use it with a brush after soaking the bore overnight. After you use the brush, spray it down with brake cleaner to keep the Butch's from attacking the brush. Let is sit for a few minutes, then run patches through the bore until your patches come out clean. Let it sit for a few hours, then repeat.

[trooperdan]

I then prepare an approximately 85% Ammonia plus 10-15% Triethanolamine mix by volume. The TEA is a very strong base by itself. Now, passing wet patches through the fouled bore will remove the copper fouling quickly.
The Ammonia/TEA mix is great and inexpensive.


Good luck,
Henry

Henry, where can you find TEA? Is it a common cleaner?

[Frank46]

jballs918, interesting handle. When I clean a rifle that will be used for cast boolits I'll use any good solvent such as shooters choice. Then resort to my old standby use of auto body rubbing compound with an oversized bore brush, then use auto body polishing compound with an oversized bore brush. Then either jb compound or the newer bright bore with very tight fitting patches. I'm not concerned about possible damage from the auto body compounds as they are used on car finishes and have worked well in the past. I make up a paste of the compounds with hoppes after I have removed all traces of the shooters choice. I tried this regimen with my swedish 98 mauser in 9.3x57 mauser. Did it ever make a difference. Once that rifle has been used with cast boolits then it never sees another condom bullet again. I leave a film of hoppes in the bore for at least a week to see if I get any blue green tinge on the patches. If not then its clean enough for me. If I do get a tinge then its back to square one. I have a ishapore 2A1 in 7.62 nato that so far probably has the worlds record for strokes up and down the barrel. Still get tinges of green so the quest continues. I did read somewhere that one shooter had a yugo with a dark bore. He heavily covered some patches with jb compound and fired 8mm ammo that had about half the powder removed and reported that the bore cleaned up very well. BUT he also stated that the primers from the first shell showed flattened primers and that the appearance diminished until the last shot was fired. Think he fired five rounds total. For whats its worth. Frank

[KevMT]

I'll second the nomination for Wipeout. Although I reserve it for cleaning copper fouling out of bores before I switch them to cast. It really must be seen to believed. For general maintenance cleaning I still use Ed's red.

[mike in co]

ok..since you asked.....
GM TEC(TOP ENGINE CLEANER) IS ABOUT 8 BUCKS FOR A 16 OZ TIN.
this will remove carbon build up from powder PERIOD.
i have yet to mix any ed's red, and use sweets or #9 for copper removal.

some guns get 2 patches of tec, and then 2-3 of kroil and i'm done, otherS take more work.
the bbl of my 308 win br gun looks like chrome it has such a smooth clean finish.

guys that shoot moly bullets had a problem a few yrs back with a hard black substance in the thoart area. some people were scared away from moly, others said it was dangerous stuff and quit selling it.
the reallity was it was a new component of bbl fouling and a new cleaning proceedure was needed......the moly on the bbl was allowing more flame down the bbl, less heat out the bbl mass at the chamber, and carbon was forming and getting very hard.
the answer.....TEC.....dissolves the carbon, and then you clean as normal.

i use moly on almost all copper bullets,i had an ar 10 that quit shooting...ii tried new loads, new oal...cleaned...nothing helped.
the first patch of TEC broke loose so much carbon that i could barely get the patch thru the bbl. took four patches of TEC to get the carbon out and the accuracy back!

[C1PNR]

Do I have to buy this stuff from my GM dealer, or does someone else sell it too?

Sounds like a great twosome, TEC and Sweets, Carbon and Copper!:D

[bascom32423]

Henry, where can you find TEA? Is it a common cleaner?
Hi Dan,

To find TEA, try eBAY (where I got mine - one gallon for about $25.00 with shipping) or do a Google search. The material is used in cosmetics and skin loations. Obviously, it's not a poison and very safe to use. I don't recall from whom I got it from. If you buy a case of the Ace 10% Ammonia, it's dirt cheap.

If you have any other questions, you can email me directly

henry@phonl.com

Merry Christmas,
Henry

[Beau Cassidy]

Wipe out will make the old way you clean your guns obsolete. Period. You think your guns are clean using Ed's Red, Butche's Bore Shine, Sweets, etc? I used to. Try Wipe out. You'll like it.

Beau

[StarMetal]

jballs918, interesting handle. When I clean a rifle that will be used for cast boolits I'll use any good solvent such as shooters choice. Then resort to my old standby use of auto body rubbing compound with an oversized bore brush, then use auto body polishing compound with an oversized bore brush. Then either jb compound or the newer bright bore with very tight fitting patches. I'm not concerned about possible damage from the auto body compounds as they are used on car finishes and have worked well in the past. I make up a paste of the compounds with hoppes after I have removed all traces of the shooters choice. I tried this regimen with my swedish 98 mauser in 9.3x57 mauser. Did it ever make a difference. Once that rifle has been used with cast boolits then it never sees another condom bullet again. I leave a film of hoppes in the bore for at least a week to see if I get any blue green tinge on the patches. If not then its clean enough for me. If I do get a tinge then its back to square one. I have a ishapore 2A1 in 7.62 nato that so far probably has the worlds record for strokes up and down the barrel. Still get tinges of green so the quest continues. I did read somewhere that one shooter had a yugo with a dark bore. He heavily covered some patches with jb compound and fired 8mm ammo that had about half the powder removed and reported that the bore cleaned up very well. BUT he also stated that the primers from the first shell showed flattened primers and that the appearance diminished until the last shot was fired. Think he fired five rounds total. For whats its worth. Frank

Frank,

You ever think that gaschecks leave some copper in the bore?

Joe

[felix]

Yes, gaschecks do lead the barrel, but the copper does not stick too hard because of the lube surrounding it. I don't worry about cleaning the barrel out unless accuracy wanes. ... felix

[Junior1942]

The trick to using Hoppe's #9 is to let it soak for a while. I soak with it for 15 minutes on a normal copper fouled bore. After the soak, run a brass brush in and out about 50 times. Then clean and oil the bore. It'll be sparkly clean,.

[StarMetal]

Felix,

I brought that up because the fellow said after shooting only casts he's still cleaning copper out of that bore, may be the gaschecks he's cleaning.

Joe

[jballs918]

well guys thanks for all the advice. i have one question. should i remove the powder foul first or the copper first. oh and the TEC stuff where can i get that stuff from that sounds like some heavy duty stuff. i'm pretty much game for trying anything once and the wipeout sounds pretty good. again thansk for all the help.

jason

[felix]

Always, powder first. ... felix

[StarMetal]

Remove the powder fouling first.

Joe