Not Happy Today

[chuck40219]

Weather warmed up to about 65* this afternoon, decided would be a good day to make some boolits.

Kids and wife got me a new lee bottom pour pot, 2 new molds, and 10 lb. of lead. Don't know were everything came from except the lead. It came from RotoMetals (Lyman #2 Bullet Metal). Wanted to start new with the lead. Wanted repeatable results for my 45-70.

I have cast 100's if not in the low 1000's of round balls and maxie bullets from wheel weights that the local Big O Tires Store had given me. All in a pot on the Coleman stove with a ladle. Last time this was done about 8 months ago. I know this is not many compared to a lot of you. Last casting session went fine, after molds heated up all went well.

On to today, set up table in open garage doorway. Slight breeze, not quite as dumb as 40 or so years ago. Set new lee pot on table, plug in. Let it smoke for 1/2 hour on I think 3 setting (low heat?). After quit smoking went inside grabbed my two new lead ingots from RotoMetals. Put one in pot grabbed everything else, when I cane back the first 5 lb. ingot had started to melt. Left it on low setting. Did not want to rush, had all afternoon. Added second ingot after first had melted completely. Fluxed, skimmed, and set cleaned mold on top of pot. Really did not expech first 12 or so to be any good. They we not good. Wrinkled, mold or lead not hot enough me thinks. Come inside to the computer, go to Cast Boolits to make sure. I remembered something right today I thought. Turned temp control up to 5. Let pot warm to higher temp.

Next 50 boolits or so out of two molds, never seen anything like them. 1/2 of them would break falling out of the molds. None were usable. The lead had a graining look like pot metal has when broken. Have not found any post so far to address my problem.

Looking down in the pot after I stopped pouring it looked like the formations out west. Like when volcanoes would form and then overtime the ground around the rock would erode.

238480

Not all looked this bad.

chuck40219

[bmortell]

random guess, did you de-grease the new molds?

[country gent]

Appears to be some frosting on the noses. This could be to hot on the alloy or mould. The bases almost look like they hadn't cooled completely when opened and dropped. If you have a thermometer melt pot and set to around 675* pre heat mould and start working up to around 700-750*. cast at a medium pace and watch the sprue harden you will see a "frost" come over it when the sprue hardens. GIve it a 5-7 second count and cut the sprue then drop the bullet. The bigger bullet stay molten soft longer in the mould do to mass. Eve better is to cast with 2 moulds fill one and set aside fill second cut sprue and drop first refill then repeat with second. This sets a cadence and uses the cooling time to fill and work the other mould will one is cooling.

Before the next session check the mould for lead smears spatters on faces, bottom of sprue plate and top of blocks. Make sure all is clean and pins are seating. Also check vent line for plugged areas. This may have occurred with the soft bullets being dropped and hit temps.

I doubt you have damaged anything . Just to hot and to soon a drop. Give a little longer time for the bullets to cool / set up.

[Hossfly]

Looks like your mold is not up to temperature, get it hot, I use a hot plate and up to around 400’. Then start pouring fast and let sprue puddle on top, several cycles, when up to temp drop boolits on dry cotton towel or you can drop into water bucket, for quick handling. Just don’t look hot enough with your mold.

[Markopolo]

Well, one thing is for sure... there is a learning curve to your new toy..

First of all, get yourself something to tell what your temp is in your pot... I use one of them laser thermometer thingys, but whatever you can get that works.. I Cast around temp setting 7 on both of my lee pots, but every one is a bit different.

Then, casting stuff for things other then BP shooting is a bit different and a bit more learning then what you been used to... also, your alloy is gunna need some tweaking. Roto number 2 is gunna be different then what your used to as well..... what I would do..

1. Figure out the temp of your pot...
2. Figure out what you want for an alloy... lots of folks cut roto number 2 with dead soft 50/50.. makes for a tough alloy for 45/70..
3. Prepare yourself to cast up to 100 boolits before you start to break in your new molds.. most of the time it doesn’t take that long but sometimes it does.

Remember this, you have new alloy, new casting pot, new molds... lots of potiential for frustration.. try to limit your new factors as much as possible. Get used to your new pot casting with a mold you have used before, and lead you have casted with before. Then after you get used to the new pot, try 1 of your new molds after careful new mold scrubbing and smoking, and pre-heating,cooling, and pre-heating.. once you get good with those 2 new components, add the other new mold, still using the lead you are used to using.... get everything broken in one at a time, not all at the same time... and then lastly, try working out a new alloy.. and get used to that.

Good luck brother... I been down your trail a time or 2... you can PM me if you get stuck or want some more advise.

Marko

[kungfustyle]

+1 above. My pot 20 lb Lee. Start at 8 or 9 to get it up and running at the melt bring it down to 7 and cast around 5 or so. Now I do have a thermometer and I get my lead to 700 to 750 and try to keep it there. Just my two cents a $20 thermometer or a $120 pid -20 is $100 just saying it may be worth the $$. Pour the lead let it sit for about three seconds after you see the sprue frost over. See it you get the same results. Keep a wet towel close buy, that you can cool the molds, but keep the moisture away from the pot. If you start casting and the lead is molten on the spru plate longer then two seconds your melt is too hot. Just keep the bullets in the mold till about three to five count after they frost over and drop the temp down.

[chuck40219]

random guess, did you de-grease the new molds?

Yes I did. My wife worked for a paint company before she retired. They made a product that would strip anything off of anything. And would then dissolve the anything.

Took both molds and soaked them for few min. then wiped them down with q tips.

But will go thought the whole shebang again tomorrow.

chuck40219

[chuck40219]

Then realized I needed to let all this info sink in. Will throw one more thing out there, what if I did not let all of the oil that came on the pot new burn off.

Tomorrow is a new day, As soon as the temp gets up above 60* I will try again. I will let everyone know what I was doing wrong when I figure it out.

Second thought I will order a thermometer in the morning before I get myself in anymore trouble.

chuck40219

[Hossfly]

That will certainly help. The more info you can give the better we can help.

[Bazoo]

Sounds like you're running the lead too hot. Control the mould temp through cadence and sprue size, not lead temp. I heat my moulds by resting them in the top of the pot so they are partially in the lead probably 5 minutes or more. It will cause the mould to become too hot which I'll note on the first cast,but that is easily cured by waiting a minute for it to cool before continuing.

You might try casting with your maxi ball mould and using that to help rule out other problems. Is your maxi mould iron? If so, there's part of your problem as it takes a little bit of learning to switch to aluminum if you're used to iron moulds.

[Bazoo]

Any oil in the pot will just burn out with the flux. What did you flux with? I find wax helps the melt to flow better. I use both wax and sawdust.

I clean my moulds with lighter fluid. If I get contamination while casting, say from sprue plate lube I clean with lighter fluid while hot. It sizzles but doesn't burst into blames.

[44Blam]

Man - for $15 for 5 lbs of lyman #2, you can get linotype letters for less than that on Ebay. Also, there are cheaper sources of soft lead. I generally buy if I find it at $1 or less. Then I can blend it with the linotype to cater my casting to my boolits for hardness. If I can get COWW, I'll pay a little more than $1...

[RED BEAR]

Those wheel weights will work for casting to. Check the scrap yards for a cheap source of lead. There are thermometers on amazon for around 20 dollars or so. I wouldn't say the readings are gospel but they give an idea for what works best. Hey just stick with it what you use for round balls and maxie will work for your 45/70 as well. And one word of advice it ain't rocket science so there is an awful lot that you do not need to worry about. I actually find casting enjoyable and relaxing as long as my back goes a long.

[Bird]

The sprues look good. OK, sorry for the wise crack.
With a full pot of lead, 3 1/2 to 4 setting keeps the lead at around 720F on my pot, and casting outdoors at 65 to 70F. If I set to #5 it will get to 800F quite fast. All the pots are going to be different, so you will need a thermometer.
The mold temp is more important than the pot temp. Keep the pot at 700 to 725, and that will do fine.
You should give the lead a stir every 20min or so. Keep filling the mold until the wrinkles go away. Your next few bullets should look good. If you cut the sprues too soon and drop the bullets before cooling enough, they can break and end up with the situation you have. 45-70 bullets are large, and take a lot longer to cool and solidify than the round balls you have been used to casting.
Leave any surplus lead from your casting session in the pot, but screw the valve in while the lead is still molten, it will stop leaks next time you start melting and you wont have to stand there and watch the pot for leaks.
I may have missed it, but what type of mold are you using? Iron, aluminum?

[RED BEAR]

I agree you have to get a feel for your pot i have one that once heated up works great at about a setting of 5 another that works better at 7. Also as the volume goes down the temp goes up. Not sure if any of this helps but keep at it and keep asking questions.

[Conditor22]

Lee thermostats are/were never accurate due to the design and location they are affected by the surrounding temperature (they are located in the housing behind the casting pot). You can't rely on them. you have 2 options: get a thermometer and monitor it all the time or get/build a PID.

The easy way to tell if your cutting the sprues to soon (lead too hot) is you get divots in the base of the boolit or the lead smears.

I've had hot boolits break before but never had one look like the picture.

the grained look is from antimony.

I like to flux my pot with BOTH pine sawdust AND wax ( the combination works better than either one by itself).

I get most of my casting done between 680° and 720° unless I'm casting pure then I go 750-800

You may want to look into a hotplate to warm you mold before casting (around $5 in thrift stores)

[chuck40219]

Have decided to order a PID controller from Hatch. Have sent him a e-mail. Hope he has one ready to go. I saw were he had a waiting list at one time.

Have cleaned up my molds from the other day. Going to clean cavities with lighter fluid in a few minutes.

Progress is slow around here. But as my wife says: one thing at a time.

Will come back here when I get everything cleaned and set up.

Thanks for all, and I mean all the responses offered on this subject.

Called a friend that has 29 cabs and as many trailers. They do all the tire maintenance in shop. Asked if he had any ww and if they were lead. Said he only bought the 100% lead weights. Said he had a box over in the corner, might be 100 lbs. He said he had been putting them in the dumpster. I am welcome to them. Sounds like I have a good source of lead for a while.

Talk with you all soon.

chuck40219

[Rizzo]

Yes! You ordered a PID. Good move.
Now you will know exactly what temp. you are using.
I set mine at 720 degrees. My Lee pot thermostat is set all the way High.

If you haven't done so already, get a hotplate ($10-$20 at Walmart) to keep your mold from cooling down when reloading lead into the pot, etc.

I think you are going to have fun, with a probably a dash of frustration thrown in until you get the "feel" of it all.

An after thought:
You can check your PID accuracy by putting the probe in boiling water (212 F)and also ice water with lots of ice (32 F).
You can also do fun things with it such as checking the accuracy of your kitchen stove temp, refrigerator/freezer temps, mold temp on hotplate, etc., etc.
Have fun!

[fredj338]

Then realized I needed to let all this info sink in. Will throw one more thing out there, what if I did not let all of the oil that came on the pot new burn off.

Tomorrow is a new day, As soon as the temp gets up above 60* I will try again. I will let everyone know what I was doing wrong when I figure it out.

Second thought I will order a thermometer in the morning before I get myself in anymore trouble.

chuck40219
Some oil left in the pot wont affect anything but it will smoke. The mold needs to be clean. Not sure what the stripper you sued is but just degreasing is all that is needed. I use gun scrubber but brake cleaner or alcohol works too. Get the mold up to temp on a hot plate or on top of the pot. I turn my Lee to 7 for 1/2 full. It should be about 700deg. Then start casting. I drop on a folded rag on the bench. In 10s of 1000s of bullets I have never seen a bullet break apart. With a known metal, I am perplexed why that would happen, unless yo uare breaking the mold open before the alloy is setup.
Free lead, any kind of free alloy is good, get as much as you can get.

[chuck40219]

OK got the PID controller from Hatch today. Will try to cast some tomorrow. We will see what the wife has for me to do tomorrow.

Chuck40219

[cwlongshot]

Your on the right track. can be lil frustrating for sure. Most of us have been there one time or another!

I like brake clean spray cans. (Wear glasses) Spray out the mold and brush quick with tooth brush. I do this before and during casting sometimes. Yes eventually you will work thru what ever might be in the mold. But it takes a few seconds to step outside and quickly hose the mold then brush and hose again. If its hot, it will dry almost instantly. Then back to cast, just toss the first two or so pours and then look at the third.

Also, I like to have some tin or pewter on hand in small one ounce ish amounts. That way one in a 10# pot/ 2 in 20#. Its a great thing for filling out a mold when you have unknown metals. (I know this pot, you have new known materials.) Lastly to agree with fluxing comments. Wax esp bees wax and pine saw dust are my preferences. Saw dust is used allot on mine as I can leave it on top of the lead to act as a barrier from contaminants in the air.

Remember, its all about enjoyment, so have fun!

Good luck,
CW

[lightman]

Wow, it sounds like your family did you right!

Any oil in your casting pot should be a non issue. I may have missed what molds you are using but, if they are aluminum they may need to be heat cycled a few times before they cast well. Use them long enough to get them hot, stop and let them cool, then do it all over again. Maybe give them a good scrubbing with Dawn and an old tooth brush. I use brake cleaner on my steel molds. Skip the lighter fluid. Often there is a slight trace of oil in it. Your bullets crumbling sounds like maybe you are dumping then too soon and maybe letting them fall too far or too hard. An old towel folded up works well for a landing zone.

And hang in there! It can be frustrating at times but it will eventually all come together. Even seasoned casters have an off day sometimes!

Congratulations on finding a source for wheel weights. I hope this works out well for you.

[Toymaker]

That is a big a$$ bullet for a bottom pour pot. Been there, tried that, never could get good results. This was the final straw that turned me to using a dipper.