45 colt reloading

[pahermit]

Was going to order a set of 45 colt dies for my rossi 92.As i looked the info about the dies i saw that the roll crimp die was for only 452 heads and not for 454 heads.Now i have been loading 45 colt for over 25 years on a dillon sq deal.Always ysed 452 heads for all my 45 revolvers,never heard anything before about useing a different roll crimp die for 454 heads.Now am confused about what dies to use.[NOTE] I want to use my turret press for the rossi,not the dillon.

[cwlongshot]

I wouldnt worry too much. In the world today of 45 Colt, folks have forgotten it was once a 454, and probably never knew folks like us still size lead boolets to 454 regularly. [smilie=b:

I load .454 all the time and never had had issue with RCBS Redding or Lyman 45 colt dies crimping. (Either Roll or Taper crimps.)

CW

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Try a Lee Factory Crimp die. It will put a satisfactory squeeze on either diameter, and the amount of crimp is easily adjusted. Plus, there's the advantage that if the reloaded cartridge will enter and exit the carbide ring that is an integral part of the die it's guaranteed to chamber.

[DougGuy]

Try a Lee Factory Crimp die. It will put a satisfactory squeeze on either diameter, and the amount of crimp is easily adjusted. Plus, there's the advantage that if the reloaded cartridge will enter and exit the carbide ring that is an integral part of the die it's guaranteed to chamber.

This is NOT the die you want to use. It WILL size a .452" down in the case, what do you think it will do to a .454?"

Edit: There is also quite a bit of inconsistency with the Lee FCD. Some carbide rings are bigger than others. A very few of them won't size down a .452" in the case, the majority of them will. You have to remember that factory boolit/bullet diameter is .451" so the FCD will just smooth out the outside of the case if you are loading .451" but anything larger will get swaged down as a general rule with the Lee Carbide FCD.

[Baltimoreed]

I’ve been reloading .45lc with lead bullets using whatever crimp die that rcbs uses with just a light crimp for my rifles and pistols in .452 and .454 [.455 martial revolvers] for many years. Never had a bullet get pushed back into a case or jump out in my revolver. With jacketed bullets or powerful hunting loads the crimp is much more important.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Gee, it isn't too often that I get told that I'm just flat wrong by someone who doesn't offer an alternative. Just wrong. Well, pahermit, you're saying that (if I'm reading your post correctly) that you've always used .452, but you're new die is for .454. You haven't expressed a desire to go with .454, so I was and am assuming that you want to stay with .452. If that's the case, try the Lee Factory Crimp die. Even my detractor says that they size to .451, which I don't really think is quite accurate. In any case, I'm so sure it will work for you, having used it myself for years, that if you get one, follow the directions, and it doesn't work for you I'll happily buy it from you for what you paid for it. Just send me a PM if you find that you want to get rid of it, but I don't think I'll ever hear from you, because I've been using one with great success ever since they came out. As I'm sure you've experienced at some point in your many years of reloading, roll crimps that are overdone won't enter your cylinder or feed through your carbine.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

When I consider what a roll crimp actually is, bullet diameter is irrelevant. The crimp die is simply adjusted to ROLL (swage) the brass into a crimp groove. Case neck expanded diameter and case neck bell/flare can differ from 452 to 454 but a roll crimp die will crimp either. I like the Lee Factory crimp for my rifle calibers, 30-30, 35 Rem, 32 Winchester... not so much for the handguns, the 'old style' roll crimp dies work very well.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

It does work well with the experience not to be heavy handed, and assuming that the bullet design has a crimping groove.
Sometimes one is better served with a taper crimp, which the LFCD more closely resembles.

[David2011]

When I consider what a roll crimp actually is, bullet diameter is irrelevant. The crimp die is simply adjusted to ROLL (swage) the brass into a crimp groove. Case neck expanded diameter and case neck bell/flare can differ from 452 to 454 but a roll crimp die will crimp either.

Agreed. Shouldn't be an issue for the Rossi but in stout handgun/pistol caliber rifle loads the hotter the load, the more firm I want the roll crimp. I believe a firm roll crimp helps get more consistent ignition in loads like the "Ruger and Contender only" loads.

[Outpost75]

I load for old Colt New Service M1909 with Accurate 45-259EB cast 1:30 tin-lead from Roto Metals with 6.5 grains of Bullseye, shoots to fixed sights at 25-yards using RCBS Cowboy dies with bullets as-cast and unsized at. 455" lubed with Lee Liquid Alox with ten and X-ring groups at 25 yards, 880 fps from 5-1/2" barrel. What else would you want??????

[pahermit]

I reread my question,in case Iwas not clear what i wante to know was do pistol dies come in different size bullet roll crimp's.I want to load a 454 bullet in 45 colt.I was told that some crimps come in either 452 or 454.This is something I had never heard before.Hope I was clearer now.

[Harter66]

Most should be compatible with cast bullets , especially in cartridges like 45 Colts . I have Lyman , Lee and RCBS dies for 45s and have had now issue with crimp or down sizing .454 dia bullets . I think that most of the 38/357 up through 45/454 at least have enough room and adjustment available to manage the .003 oversize without issue . That has been my experience anyway .

In regard to the FCD . Personally I don't care for the pistol version with the ring sizer . It does have some use as a mixed tool . I use the 45 ACP as a sizer for my Rossi M92' Colts brass as it leaves it fat . The collet rifle type FCD dies are available in limited numbers for the 1.128+- length pistol cartridges and are quite satisfactory .

[onelight]

45 colt seems to have a larger number of variables in bore throat and available tools than any of the newer designed big bores and is the caliber that got me lurking here looking for info from some of the most expert and knowledgeable reloaders you can find on one forum.
I lack the skill tools and dedication to the sport to do what many here do in the persuit of perfection but I do love seeing it.

[str8wal]

You shouldn't have any problem with the RCBS roll crimp die set with either bullet.

[Messy bear]

Ya don't use that factory crimp die. I hate the ones I have. Should throw them all in a land fill some where. They make loading for rifles and all different brands and clones of revolvers easy. Doesn't matter whether the chambers are tight or loose, ammo goes in all of them. Ya I hate em.

[mdi]

When I got my 45 Colt clone SAA, I determined I needed to use .453"+ bullets. So I got an RCBS "Cow Boy" die set. The kit includes 2 expanders; one for .452" and one for .454" bullets. I short cut the crimping worries by going straight to a Lee collet crimp die (aka FCD, but many people don't specify which FCD they're talking about. Lee makes two distinctly different types of FCD with the same name). I'm shooting .453"+ cast and use the collet crimp.

One factor may take part here; on some crimp dies the ID will not allow for larger bullets to enter the die (Lee dies are an example. .454" bullets scrape the side when inserted, and a ring is scraped on the bullet above the crimp. Not a Lee hater, just an observation on crimp die internal dimensions).

[Mohavedog]

I reread my question,in case Iwas not clear what i wante to know was do pistol dies come in different size bullet roll crimp's.I want to load a 454 bullet in 45 colt.I was told that some crimps come in either 452 or 454.This is something I had never heard before.Hope I was clearer now.

I think you are confusing "crimp" dia with case expander size. .452" or .454" refers to the size that the case is expanded to. Either can be crimped as little or much as you want.

[sghart3578]

I must be one of the lucky ones.

On my Lee die set I use the FCD.

I cast the Lee 255 gr RF bullet and load them unsized, as cast. They are .454" from the mold.

I use the powder-thru expansion die to flare the case and drop the powder charge, then seat the bullet and crimp with the crimp die that came in the set.

No muss, no fuss, and very accurate ammo to boot.


Steve in N CA

[JeffG]

Was going to order a set of 45 colt dies for my rossi 92.As i looked the info about the dies i saw that the roll crimp die was for only 452 heads and not for 454 heads.Now i have been loading 45 colt for over 25 years on a dillon sq deal.Always ysed 452 heads for all my 45 revolvers,never heard anything before about useing a different roll crimp die for 454 heads.Now am confused about what dies to use.[NOTE] I want to use my turret press for the rossi,not the dillon.

I have the RCBS Cowboy die set that has both .452 and .454 expanders but a single seat and roll crimp die. I use the .452 expander for 45 Colt and the .454 expander for 45 Schofield, using a larger diameter bullet in a different gun, a derringer. The same seat and crimp die works fine without sizing the case down when using the larger bullets and expander for Schofield.

[DougGuy]

I'm loading the 454190 at .456" for the Uberti in my avatar, throats were .4565" from the factory, .451" groove diameter of barrel. I used a standard set of Lee 45 Colt dies, with the exception of a custom expander plug a couple of thousandths larger and maybe .075" or .080" longer than the standard expander. I don't see why it wouldn't do a .454" if it will do .456" perfectly.

[osteodoc08]

I’ve had good success with the rcbs cowboy dies. Reportedly set up for lead. I haven’t done any dimension checks but they load and shoot fine out of all my 45 colts.

[onelight]

I don’t know if any one else has seen this happen but my hunting buddie carried a marlin 44 mag and when going in the camper would remove the load from the chamber and return it to the magazine after a few days of this he cycled all the ammo from the rifle the 2nd round nearest the receiver looked like he had been hitting it with a hammer I guess the weight of the rounds in the mag + the spring repeatedly slamming it into the stop were trying to drive that bullet back into the case.
Lever gun rounds need to be able to stand some rough treatment.
On a Henry you could take the pressure off the mag spring and remove the chambered round that is a plus if repeatedly clearing the chamber on the same ammo.

[waco]

I took my Lee Factory Crimp dies to work and chucked them up in a lathe and popped the carbide size ring out.
Now they are just a roll crimp die that doesn't resize your boolits.

[fn1889m]

Waco,
Could you fill me in on the details of removing the carbide ring? What role did the lathe play?

[str8wal]

I don’t know if any one else has seen this happen but my hunting buddie carried a marlin 44 mag and when going in the camper would remove the load from the chamber and return it to the magazine after a few days of this he cycled all the ammo from the rifle the 2nd round nearest the receiver looked like he had been hitting it with a hammer I guess the weight of the rounds in the mag + the spring repeatedly slamming it into the stop were trying to drive that bullet back into the case.
Lever gun rounds need to be able to stand some rough treatment.
On a Henry you could take the pressure off the mag spring and remove the chambered round that is a plus if repeatedly clearing the chamber on the same ammo.

As a youngun I carried a Win 30-30 hunting and noticed the rounds kept getting shorter after spending time in the tubular mag. Never gave a thought of increased pressure as I just didn't know about things like that.

[Randy Bohannon]

Seems I have a different set of dies for ea. of the 45 Colts I own. I’ve had to remove the 45 Colt ‘Bulge’ from cartridges shot in lever guns so chambered,those need a old set of RCBS steel dies to remove the ‘Bulge’.Then a carbide set to do modern chambered revolvers the .451-2” and jacketed bullets. Then a set of RCBS Cowboy dies for fat cast boolits in the Winchester 92’s fat butt @ .456 which I had to have a custom expander from Buffalo Arms because the Cowboy die expander was yet to small. The chamber on my Win/Miroku 92 45 Colt is so big I can use the expander from a 45-70 die expander. The rifle shoots excellent after figuring what it was going to take.
I think the 45 Colt is the most bastardized cartridge we find delightful,SAMMI specs. are a suggestion.

[M-Tecs]

The 45 Colt was around 50 years before SAAMI was established. The 45 Colt SAAMI standard was been revised at least once but it's still a mess.