Can't use hard cast

[doncrs65]

I have a 35 Whelen and I was going to use hard cast boolits to hunt with but in Alabama you have to use mushrooming boolits only and I want a round or flat nose to hunt brush with. What are my options for a soft or semi soft mushrooming boolits that I can shoot out of my Whelen at 2300 fps?

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[cwlongshot]

ABSOLUTELY!

Here is my Whelen Boolet. Its a NOE 280 RN.

(The two on the left)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Bullets/Casting/B8DA0491-51D0-4108-A68E-4D380F237C97_zpssg9tcjer.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Bullets/Casting/B2599961-740E-4C4F-8663-C72CB1C03A2E_zpsp2kt48w9.jpg

Simply cast them softer!!

WW/Lyman #2 will work, Lil softer if ya powder coat them will work too!

CW

[waksupi]

Even hard cast bullets expand. Hard cast is just marketing hype.

[pworley1]

The Lee 358200FN works well for me 35 Whelen and 35 Remington. I only push mine to about 2000'/sec for better accuracy.

[White Oak]

How will the Alabama Game and Fish know the cast bullets ability to expand?

This type of regulation is meant stop the use of FMJ bullets on game.

I would load up the cast bullets and go hunt.

[Texas by God]

How will the Alabama Game and Fish know the cast bullets ability to expand?

This type of regulation is meant stop the use of FMJ bullets on game.

I would load up the cast bullets and go hunt.Exactly this^^^

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[Conditor22]

doncrs65 welcome to CB.

That would depend on their definition of hard-cast. Most commercial casters boolits (boolit=lead bullet) are around 15-16 BHN (check the lead alloy calculator or LASC link for the hardness of different leads. Are you sure you need to push the boolit that fast?
What are you planning on hunting and how heavy a boolit are you looking at?
CW is right, PC (powder coating) will make cast boolits more durable.

The search box on the top right of each forum page is your friend, it connects you to all the posts (knowledge) on CB. If you can't find what you're looking for there just ask, I'd be very surprised if a member didn't have the answer to your question.

If you decided to start casting to save money, forget it. You won't, you'll just shoot more.
Casting boolits (lead bullets) properly is a science, once you know the basics, not a hard science.
There is a lot of good information on CB. The Google search (top right of every forum page) is a gateway to all the knowledge on this forum. IF you can’t find your answer there ask the question (Please be as detailed as possible, pictures help. I would be very surprised if there wasn’t someone on this forum that could answer ANY (firearm related) question you might have)
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
1. Boolits need to be cast .0005 to .003 (normally .002) over the slugged diameter of your barrel for accuracy and to avoid leading. If the fit is wrong nothing else will work right.
a. slugging a barrel (it is safer to use a brass rod or a steel rod with a couple of coats of tape to avoid damaging your barrel http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm
b. chamber casting https://www.brownells.com/guntech/cerrosafe/detail.htm?lid=10614
or pound casting http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?356251-Pound-Cast-instructions-(for-rifle-chamber)
2. the right alloy needs to be used for the velocity and purpose of the boolit (don’t fall into the trap of going with too hard an alloy

Some alloys harden over time
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_3_alloySelectionMetallurgy.ht m

Lead alloy calculator
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=45784&d=1341560870
3. velocity the bullet needs to be pushed hard/fast enough to get the proper spin, have the proper velocity to accurately reach the target but not so hard as to be dangerous or strip the lead off in the grooves instead of spinning the boolit..
The boolit needs to be the right weight for the riffling/twist rate of your barrel
Powders range from fast to slow, you need to choose the right powder for your barrel length & application.
Loading manuals list the best powders for certain calibers and boolit weights.
NEVER use any posted noncommercial load data without first checking commercial load data to see if falls in the safe parameter for your firearm!! There are several firearms out there that can handle much higher pressures than others!!

Testing lead hardness with art pencils
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?378866-Lead-hardness-pencil-testing-trick

Link to free online load data
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?337910-CB-load-data-online-sources

Optimum seating depth (still feeds and seats with the best accuracy) will vary with every gun
I read somewhere that you can hold the boolit in the chamber so it's touching the rifling. slide the biggest rod down the barrel and mark where the end of the barrel is. If there is a big gap between the barrel and the rod, you can use a washer the fits snug around the rod to help with marking.
remove the boolit then chamber an empty piece of brass, use the same rod and measure it again. Do the math, this is your max depth. Back it off a couple thou.
now you have to worry about feeding.

[Tom W.]

I've been here for years. Many years. The Game Wardens do not consider cast boolits as a FMJ. I used them in my 30/30 for years, as did my late buddy. I also use them in my .44 SRH or .45 Colt or .454 or .480 or any handgun that I took. I used to load up a few boxes for both the 30/30 and .44 mag for my buddy, and I always used them. I can't remember shooting a jacketed bullet from my 30/30, but my youngest son may have.

And Yes, we have been asked a time or two to display our ammo......

[clintsfolly]

I have a 9.3x63 just a metric 35 Whalen. Cast from Lyman#2 my bullet expand at 2100 rib shooting deer.

[TheGrimReaper]

How will the Alabama Game and Fish know the cast bullets ability to expand?

This type of regulation is meant stop the use of FMJ bullets on game.

I would load up the cast bullets and go hunt.


Exactly. They mean no FMJ. All lead boolits are as old as time.

[RED BEAR]

Even a solid can mushroom just not like a lead.

[smoked turkey]

The 35 Whelen is quite a thumper, especially with a cast boolit like the old Lyman 3589 when cast with 50/50 + 1% tin (clip-on wheel weights/pure lead). I have used this combination to successfully take whitetail deer here and black bear in northeastern Canada (New Brunswick). You won't be disappointed. My load information from the mentioned hunts is Boolit weight ended up at 295 grains fully dressed and ready to go, 45 gr H4350EXT, Remington 9 1/2 primer, velocity by chrono 1736'/s. Your results may vary. Approach this load information carefully as it may not prove satisfactory for you. It sure works for me.

[richhodg66]

Even hard cast bullets expand. Hard cast is just marketing hype.

This. That "hard cast" name is so stupid.

Cast expand just fine, and you don't need 2300 FPS to do it. Anything .30 caliber or bigger moving 1800 FPS as long as it's reasonably heavy for caliber and has a flat nose is gonna put Bambi down quickly if you know how to hunt and shoot. It's a lot easier than I thought when I started hunting with cast now that I've killed several with the "small bores".

[doncrs65]

I called Alabama fish and game they said it must mushroom it doesn't matter if it's fmj or cast if it doesn't expand you can't use it. I was going to by some double tap hard cast 200 grain until I found cout I could not use them.

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[doncrs65]

I was going to use them for the brush.

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[Conditor22]

Take any lead boolit under 20 bhn and shoot a steel plate, odds are high it will mushroom then carry one of these mushrooms with you.

sorry, purple = sarcasm

you do hollow point and you'll get mushroom and possibly frag.

What are you going to be shooting?

[RED BEAR]

What is there criteria for determining mushrooming ?

[richhodg66]

I called Alabama fish and game they said it must mushroom it doesn't matter if it's fmj or cast if it doesn't expand you can't use it. I was going to by some double tap hard cast 200 grain until I found cout I could not use them.

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So how can they tell if it will "mushroom" looking at an unfired round? This is getting sillier all the time.

Load your Whelen with a cast, flat point bullet. Shoot them at 1880+ FPS, they will expand nicely. You are talking about a rifle that is almost grotesquely excessively powerful for Alabama white tails, whoever that game warden you talked to is ignorant as all get out.

[bmortell]

you mean your gonna get a boolit mold or you need to purchase a cast load that expands?

[dbosman]

Take what ever boolit you wish to use and shoot it into as many media types as you can. At some velocity all will expand. Keep a couple of the expanded or mushroomed slugs in the pocket of your hunting vest or jacket.

[BigAlofPa.]

Would this work? http://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=110&category=6&secondary=35

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Considering that, "Hard cast" is an undefined term, meaning that there is no established scale into which "hard cast" falls. It is an over worked and meaningless term only of some use if the bullet manufacture also supplies a tested hard figure with the bullets. Even then, the term and tested hardness figures would ONLY apply to that bullet.

We as cast bullet shooters would do everyone a huge favor if we simply STOPPED using the term, "hard cast"

I had a casting session two days ago, in which I used 4 molds of three different profiles, all in .44 caliber. The alloy was just plain old clip on Wheel Weights which I water quenched as the bullets dropped from the hot mold.

Then yesterday I hardness tested the three styles of bullets and will again test in about 2 weeks to see what the resulting hardness is after two weeks aging.

Reading the posts above, the best reply I see is to shoot some of the bullets into a reasonable test medium and carry a couple of those test bullets with you. That should settle any questions ask, but spealing out the meaningless term, "hard cast" will only confuse the issue for all concerned.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Outpost75]

There is no need for "hard" bullets.

For Eastern deer hunting in West Virginia I use plain-based, soft cast bullets of 1:30 tin-lead from Roto Metals at about 1300-1400 fps in the .30-30 Winchester, about a half charge for jacketed bullet of same weight. 14 grs. 4198, 15 grs. 3031, 16 grs. of 4895, 4064, RL15 or Varget with 1 grain Dacron filler tucked loosely into case neck.

They work just fine, expanding to 0.60" and shooting clear through deer from any angle. The photo shows recovered bullets fired into water jugs at 50 yards which penetrated 30 inches in water.

238479

[doncrs65]

you mean your gonna get a boolit mold or you need to purchase a cast load that expands?YES!

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[doncrs65]

I just got on this forum to find out what my options are, I don't reload at least not yet, but is there any one here that can cast and load me some ammo?

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[cwlongshot]

Its unlikely anyone will Load ammo for you. Nothing personal but the liability and shipping restrictions make it highly un likely. But if you have a friend that loads and lives close maybe you can load together.

On the bullet side of your request, Im sure you will find someone willing to provide some projectiles!

IINM LEE still offers there whack-a-mole RE-loader. Unsure if in 35 Whelen tho...

Good luck!

CW

[Harter66]

I cast some 45-200 SWC for a 45 ACP they mushroom to .750 from .451-.452 .
I also have a 200 gr 30 cal that has demonstrated expansion from .308 and .312 to .690 .
I have shot hogs with a 45 Colts loaded with a 454424 and copies at 250-257 gr , it's a Kiethish SWC , and had shield exits over 1/2 inch .
Getting a cast bullet out of the barrel and accurately on to the target isn't a problem and getting it to expand isn't really hard either . (No pun intended) .
Having a 358 Win to work with I'm starting with 75/25 WW/1-20+ copper with an RCBS 35-250 around 2100 fps . Based on past work it should be 18 BHN and behave on impact like a 14-16 which means it should exit somewhere around .700 and up .

Of course powder coating or paper patch can change that and allow even softer alloys for even more expansion .

[Ramjet-SS]

I just got on this forum to find out what my options are, I don't reload at least not yet, but is there any one here that can cast and load me some ammo?

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You need to learn to reload and then take the cast boolit you plan to hunt with and shoot it into water soaked news print. It will expand and then you carry that with you in case you are ever questioned by an uninformed Fish and Game person. This law seems rather silly or at least hard to prove in court of law. If I took a bullet put in on an anvil and hit on the nose with a hammer and it expanded larger than the original caliber they would be hard pressed to make any case against me. Yes I would fight it. I just wonder if you are getting some office worker on the phone that is clueless?

[doncrs65]

You need to learn to reload and then take the cast boolit you plan to hunt with and shoot it into water soaked news print. It will expand and then you carry that with you in case you are ever questioned by an uninformed Fish and Game person. This law seems rather silly or at least hard to prove in court of law. If I took a bullet put in on an anvil and hit on the nose with a hammer and it expanded larger than the original caliber they would be hard pressed to make any case against me. Yes I would fight it. I just wonder if you are getting some office worker on the phone that is clueless?The only factory loads with cast bullets are the double tap,all I want is a good brush busting boolits and the only round nose a available are the double tap 310 gr Woodliegh at 69.00 a box.

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[doncrs65]

https://youtu.be/P5dve7vAY9I

Watch this

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[richhodg66]

There is no need for "hard" bullets.

For Eastern deer hunting in West Virginia I use plain-based, soft cast bullets of 1:30 tin-lead from Roto Metals at about 1300-1400 fps in the .30-30 Winchester, about a half charge for jacketed bullet of same weight. 14 grs. 4198, 15 grs. 3031, 16 grs. of 4895, 4064, RL15 or Varget with 1 grain Dacron filler tucked loosely into case neck.

They work just fine, expanding to 0.60" and shooting clear through deer from any angle. The photo shows recovered bullets fired into water jugs at 50 yards which penetrated 30 inches in water.

238479

Not to hijack the thread, but this interests me very much. Normally for deer hunting, I use 50/50 COWW to pure or range salvage and 2% tin and shoot at 1800-2000 FPS, but have been wondering lately if I could use a softer alloy (I was thinking 20 to 1) and slow it down significantly since my shots on deer are almost always very close. Apparently, this formula works quite well.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Plain range scrap lyman 375248 (255 gr plain base FN) from a Dan Wesson 375 Supermag moving at 1250 fps (equals the old 38-55 BP load) has exited every corn cruncher I have sighted on. I hunt river bottoms and so far 15 yards is my longest shot. Through the chest in and out always. About 3/4 - 1inch exit hole always. Never lost one. Last buck stood there looking around trying to figure what just happened then walked over to a thicket and laid down. Happily in the better direction.
Corn crunchers just do not need a lot of energy. I use recurve bow and arrows on most our bean munchers as under 20 yards. Why waist a perfectly quiet morning.
If I wanted to blow out the shoulders I would use 50-50 (WW - range scrap). But I do not desire bone scrap all through the area.
Mike in Peru

[DougGuy]

I just got on this forum to find out what my options are, I don't reload at least not yet,

It's a LONG TIME until the 2019-2020 deer season opens up. You have plenty of time to procure the basic dies, maybe a beginner press, powder scale, and loading manual. I would hunt up a buddy local to you that can mentor you a bit in reloading, and I am sure you would be able to get someone here to send you enough cast boolits to get started, and you can also buy them commercially cast soft enough to pass the GW's scrutiny.


Not to hijack the thread, but this interests me very much. Normally for deer hunting, I use 50/50 COWW to pure or range salvage and 2% tin and shoot at 1800-2000 FPS, but have been wondering lately if I could use a softer alloy (I was thinking 20 to 1) and slow it down significantly since my shots on deer are almost always very close. Apparently, this formula works quite well.

It is HARD to beat 50/50+2% for hunting! You don't have to cast softer to slow it down, you can slow down 50/50 COWW and pure lead to subsonic if you want to and it will still kill them DRT. I use 50/50+2% in all my handgun loads, my target velocity at the muzzle is 1200, velocity when it hits hide is right at 1150 - 1170 or so, I have yet to recover a boolit from an Eastern whitetail.

[Texas by God]

I can't imagine owning A .35 Whelen WITHOUT reloading for it.

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[doncrs65]

Good morning
Plain range scrap lyman 375248 (255 gr plain base FN) from a Dan Wesson 375 Supermag moving at 1250 fps (equals the old 38-55 BP load) has exited every corn cruncher I have sighted on. I hunt river bottoms and so far 15 yards is my longest shot. Through the chest in and out always. About 3/4 - 1inch exit hole always. Never lost one. Last buck stood there looking around trying to figure what just happened then walked over to a thicket and laid down. Happily in the better direction.
Corn crunchers just do not need a lot of energy. I use recurve bow and arrows on most our bean munchers as under 20 yards. Why waist a perfectly quiet morning.
If I wanted to blow out the shoulders I would use 50-50 (WW - range scrap). But I do not desire bone scrap all through the area.
Mike in PeruIam primarily a bow hunter also I just bought this rifle for when I ain't having any luck with my bow and I consider the 35 Whelen a do it all caliber from what I have read about it and videos of it that it's good from pronghorn to grizzly bear if I should desire.

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[doncrs65]

What about this hand press?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190323/15dd44065e54f6eabd83eb7492447cbf.jpg

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[DougGuy]

What about this hand press?

This is probably a waste of time and money to start off with. Look at the Lee turret press that isn't progressive. You can also start with a single stage Lee press that mounts to the bench. These won't ever be a waste, as you can load ammo on a turret press, then use the single stage for your crimp. Lots of folks load like this, where they break seating and crimping into two separate steps. I would advise this as well.

Check this one out:

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/814175/lee-classic-4-hole-turret-press?utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Reloading+-+Metallic+Reloading+Presses&utm_content=814175&cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Reloading+-+Metallic+Reloading+Presses-_-Lee-_-814175&gclid=CjwKCAjwstfkBRBoEiwADTmnEKiUbFa-yo8pvU3fGki43mRT6kj-hZPVvEg63V0ZUNTa6pRJOos9PRoCbDgQAvD_BwE

Of course you don't have to start with Lee, lots of folks here won't own anything with Lee written on it, I might say it is pretty much the K-Mart standard of reloading gear, and it can be made to work quite well. Other options would be Dillon or RCBS but costs will rise accordingly. All of them make beginner kits, you buy the kit and then buy the dies and you can be off and loading an hour after the brown truck pulls away.

[Chainsaw.]

White oak beat me to it. A bullet in good hardness range for a rifle will expand, prehaps minimally but it will expand. A game warden isnt going to show up with a hardness tester to see if your lead is soft enough. Cast in confidence and go hunt.

[doncrs65]

White oak beat me to it. A bullet in good hardness range for a rifle will expand, prehaps minimally but it will expand. A game warden isnt going to show up with a hardness tester to see if your lead is soft enough. Cast in confidence and go hunt.The double tap boolits have a hardness of 22.

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[Texas by God]

The hand press is for loading ammo at work or camp. I'd start off with a standard press as well. .35 Whelen will do it all!

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[seetrout]

The only factory loads with cast bullets are the double tap,all I want is a good brush busting boolits and the only round nose a available are the double tap 310 gr Woodliegh at 69.00 a box.

Woodleigh Weldcore is NOT a cast bullet it is a jacketed softpoint, which meets the requirements for an expanding bullet.
Doubletap ammo does not sell a cast boolit load for the .35 Whelen.


The double tap boolits have a hardness of 22.

To my knowledge, Doubletap doesn't sell boolits and doesn't load .35 Whelen with cast boolits. I could not Google any .35 Whelen ammo with cast. Where you getting your information? Links would be really helpful.

However. If you can find someone to load some ammo for you with cast bullets. Any cast boolit with a LFN or WFN profile, regardless of hardness, out of a .35 Whelen, will kill a whitetail deer. If you put it in the vitals. Except maybe some cat sneeze plinkers using light .38 spl bullets. Any game warden. Anywhere. Seeing a non-jacketed bullet in a .35 Whelen will not question you.

[Tom W.]

Where in Alabama are you?
I've been an Alabama hunters safety and firearms instructor for probably 25 years, until I had the cancer to deal with.
Just get the Lee 200 gr. Mold and some non zinc wheelweights and have a ball.

[luvtn]

I bought the “hand press”, because as I traveled for work I lived in hotels. It worked, but once I was home I bought a used Lee Classic single stage from a pawn shop $30. It does all I need it to do.
Luvtn

[cwlongshot]

Double tap DID sell projectiles. I have t bought any in a year or so. But I used to buy 200g WFN GC 10mm bullets from them.

No knoledge on 35 Whelen ammo from them.

CW

[giz189]

Don't mean to sound rude, but I think I would just stay home that season if I were you.

[doncrs65]

The 35 Whelen is quite a thumper, especially with a cast boolit like the old Lyman 3589 when cast with 50/50 + 1% tin (clip-on wheel weights/pure lead). I have used this combination to successfully take whitetail deer here and black bear in northeastern Canada (New Brunswick). You won't be disappointed. My load information from the mentioned hunts is Boolit weight ended up at 295 grains fully dressed and ready to go, 45 gr H4350EXT, Remington 9 1/2 primer, velocity by chrono 1736'/s. Your results may vary. Approach this load information carefully as it may not prove satisfactory for you. It sure works for me.Iam not really interested in casting boolits, I would rather just buy them, Hunter supply has a 300 gr gas checked would that work with your data?

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