S&W Shield 40 Leading/Tumbling Issues

[Dvdmacdaddy]

I've ran into a road block when casting and loading for my S&W Shield 40. Seems like no matter what I do the barrel leads like crazy after 5-10 shots and half the boolits are tumbling at 7yds. My mould is the Lee TL 401-175, they are coming out .401-.403 in and 176-178gr, my estimated BH is 10 (cast one pure lead boolit and one alloy boolit and sandwiched a BB in between them, measured each dimple and did the math). I have tried LAA lube loaded as cast and sized .401. Also tried powder coating as cast, sized then PC, PC then sized .401. Slugged the bore with pure lead and it came out .4015. Using Lee push through .401 sizer, Lee Loadmaster, Lee Carbide Dies, no crimp, no FCD, OAL 1.125". Using Hodgdon Universal Powder, I've tried from 4.0gr (800fps, actual) to 5.2 gr (970 fps, actual). I have only had one chambering issue, boolit bulged the case to much.

I haven't had this problem with my LCP 380, PPQ 9mm, or Springfield 1911 45acp...they all shoot PC & LLA cast very well.

This was a clean shiny barrel and after 10 PC boolits it looks like this. In one pic you can see the leading start very soon after the throat.

[Burnt Fingers]

Leading that close to the chamber usually indicates improper bullet size.

Are you sure the Lee is sizing to .401? You should be using .402 or .403 boolits.

[Tom_in_AZ]

I agree that this is most likely due to undersized boolits


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dvdmacdaddy]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190322/158f0c5871fbb246a4f3d9ba17ce493e.jpg
This is as cast

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190322/13dce957628b38ffd2b69ba437cabc76.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190322/2a158d01cf7ce4a9e142974d8647b6d4.jpg
After sizing

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190322/5cbc1f9cafcee63a34d51b0f1bc44ad5.jpg
After PC

I don’t have any as cast and PC left but they were .403.

[cwlongshot]

I havent had good luck with that bullet either. Dont really know why it looks good!

I have t seen leading. That could by the way your cookin the PC. But inaccuracy YES! I have a dozen 40’s and not ine shoots it well. I have tried harder and softer as well as different powders. Wait I take some of that back my ar shoots it fine, but will not FEED IT!

I have the std 175 to try but have not shot any yet. I switched to the 145g and all my guns like that so Im blaming the TC design. (Probably not the actual issue)

If you would like to try some 145’s Ill send ya some for postage. If ya like them buy the mold.

CW

[ioon44]

You might want to pull some loaded bullets and see what they measure, with the TL bullet and soft alloy they may be under sized.

I shoot a 150 gr SWC with out lube rings, my alloy is 15 bhn and I use the HI-Tek coating sized to .403" for my Walther PPQ .40, very accurate and no leading.

[cwlongshot]

These shoot well for me. In nearly a dozen different guns.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Bullets/Casting/Powder%20Coating/55A702F3-A0BF-4406-8E30-99242CE7AAE8_zpsgvh5fvpp_1.jpg

These (like yours) Not so much..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Bullets/Casting/Powder%20Coating/80EF5775-9A12-4253-8557-0F64A6A896EB_zpsem0ftpkt.jpg

CW

[Dvdmacdaddy]

I havent had good luck with that bullet either. Dont really know why it looks good!

I have t seen leading. That could by the way your cookin the PC. But inaccuracy YES! I have a dozen 40’s and not ine shoots it well. I have tried harder and softer as well as different powders. Wait I take some of that back my ar shoots it fine, but will not FEED IT!

I have the std 175 to try but have not shot any yet. I switched to the 145g and all my guns like that so Im blaming the TC design. (Probably not the actual issue)

If you would like to try some 145’s Ill send ya some for postage. If ya like them buy the mold.

CW

Are you using the LEE 401-145-SWC?
Yes I would be interested in trying a few.

[Dvdmacdaddy]

My impact puller broke the other day, ordered a new one should be here soon. I'll load a few dummy rounds, pull them and see if they are getting sized down further when loading. Also ordered some Cerrosafe to cast the camber and see what the dimensions are.

EDIT---- Just ordered an analysis of my bullet alloy from RotoMetals. The lead was given to me when a family member passed away, no clue of origin or composition, and a best guestimate of hardness.

[cwlongshot]

PM me an address to send them to.

CW

[Tackleberry41]

Sounds like they are being swagged down when loaded. Standard 40 dies wont do cast, need something to expand the case for a better fit.

[fredj338]

Sounds like they are being swagged down when loaded. Standard 40 dies wont do cast, need something to expand the case for a better fit.
Sure they will. I load with Dillon dies, no issue.
To the OP, you said the bore is 0.4015, if correct, your 0.401 is the issue. Yes even 0.0005" undersized will be an issue. I would try the 0.403 as cast size. If you are using the LFCD, that could also be an issue, making the bullets yet smaller. Pull a loaded bullet & measure that. It will tell you more.

[JBinMN]

Sure they will. I load with Dillon dies, no issue.
To the OP, you said the bore is 0.4015, if correct, your 0.401 is the issue. Yes even 0.0005" undersized will be an issue. I would try the 0.403 as cast size. If you are using the LFCD, that could also be an issue, making the bullets yet smaller. Pull a loaded bullet & measure that. It will tell you more.

I mentioned that earlier & pulled the post. I also posted up 2 links to help with determining how leading is being caused. It seems that the OP did not want to entertain the thought of his having a boolit that was large enough "as cast" to start with at .402 -.403, & then sizing it even smaller(.401) than his slugged bbl.(.4015) would likely cause leading, PC or lubed either way.

So, perhaps the OP will pay attention now that you mentioned it again.
;)

Maybe the colored boolits in the other post & offer to get some, was distracting...
;)



Here is that earlier deleted post if anyone cares now...:


--------------------------------
These links should be helpful, if you care to go look:

http://www.lasc.us/TaylorLeadingDefined.htm

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm


...Snip...

Slugged the bore with pure lead and it came out .4015. ...Snip...

In one pic you can see the leading start very soon after the throat.

I would agree with boolits likely being undersized. If your bbl. slugged at .4015, then IMO, you should be trying to run your boolits at .4025-.403., meaning 0.001" over groove diameter(.4015)

With the undersized boolit, "gas cutting" becomes an issue & that will run the streaks up the bbl to the muzzle, as well as erode what lube or PC you have on the boolit.

Additionally... If it is a newer bbl. there could also be some stripping of your PC or lube by the rifling as well, particularly when the boolits are undersized.

Anyway, I hope ya figure things out & work out the issues.
:)


G'Luck!

[Dvdmacdaddy]

I mentioned that earlier & pulled the post. I also posted up 2 links to help with determining how leading is being caused. It seems that the OP did not want to entertain the thought of his having a boolit that was large enough "as cast" to start with at .402 -.403, & then sizing it even smaller(.401) than his slugged bbl.(.4015) would likely cause leading, PC or lubed either way.

So, perhaps the OP will pay attention now that you mentioned it again.
;)

Maybe the colored boolits in the other post & offer to get some, was distracting...
;)



Here is that earlier deleted post if anyone cares now...:


--------------------------------
These links should be helpful, if you care to go look:

http://www.lasc.us/TaylorLeadingDefined.htm

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm



I would agree with boolits likely being undersized. If your bbl. slugged at .4015, then IMO, you should be trying to run your boolits at .4025-.403., meaning 0.001" over groove diameter(.4015)

With the undersized boolit, "gas cutting" becomes an issue & that will run the streaks up the bbl to the muzzle, as well as erode what lube or PC you have on the boolit.

Additionally... If it is a newer bbl. there could also be some stripping of your PC or lube by the rifling as well, particularly when the boolits are undersized.

Anyway, I hope ya figure things out & work out the issues.
:)


G'Luck!

I am entertaining the idea and I have been reading through the link you sent me. I have run them as cast TL and PC with same results.

[Dvdmacdaddy]

Bullet puller arrived at lunch pulled a few bullets all of them the bottom 1/3 of the bullet was sized down to .398".


Casted a few testers at lunch and following advice from a PM. Where they suggested to check the roundness of the bullet. If I rotate the bullet and measure diameter I get anywhere from .400 to .4025 in width. I think I need a shorter bullet and a new mold.

Cwlongshot is sending me of if his 145gr to try.

[JBinMN]

I am entertaining the idea and I have been reading through the link you sent me. I have run them as cast TL and PC with same results.

That you took the time to look at the links is good to read. They can be extremely useful for times such as you are having.
:)




Bullet puller arrived at lunch pulled a few bullets all of them the bottom 1/3 of the bullet was sized down to .398".


Casted a few testers at lunch and following advice from a PM. Where they suggested to check the roundness of the bullet. If I rotate the bullet and measure diameter I get anywhere from .400 to .4025 in width. I think I need a shorter bullet and a new mold.

Cwlongshot is sending me of if his 145gr to try.

Since you said in the 2nd to last post above that you ran them "as cast' before & had the same trouble, and then posted that you checked them & now see that you have "out of round" boolits from the mold, so there is still an "undersize" situation to be dealt with, along with the "OOR" situation, which is exacerbating the same issue, PC-ed or lubed, & before you decide to not use that mold I would suggest you try "Beagling" the mold with with some aluminum foil tape, or even try "Lee-menting" the mold to try to offset the mold being out of round. You can also talk to Lee by phone & explain what is happening & they likely will send you a new mold if you send the bad one back. ( I have done this & it was a simple deal.)

All the 3 options are pretty easy & that way you still have a usable mold.

If you want to know more about "Beagling" a mold, or, "Lee-menting" a mold, you can use those terms in a search engine & fine a lot of descriptions on how to do them.

As far as the boolits getting swaged, of course that does not help & there are a few ways to deal with the solution to that & the one I chose was to get NOE expander plugs for oversize boolits & Lee Univ. Expander dies to use them in for all the calibers I load for. There is another option that many folks use & is very popular as well & that is the "M" dies from Lyman. There may be a couple more options for you & but I am sure most folks will mention them as they come along & read the topic here...

Once again, G'Luck!
:)

[fredj338]

More than one person has complained about leading & the TL bullet designs in diff calibers. You could try a diff powder, Univ isn't known to cause leading issues, but ya never know. I did not see if you were using the LFCD. If so, pull a seated bullet & measure it. You may be a lot smaller dia than you think. All that early leading is saying bullet is too small. 'M' style expanders are great. You can get them for powder thru dies like Dillon or if you load on a ss or turret, Lyman or NOE.

[pjames32]

I use an RCBS TC mold (not home so I can't give you the number) that casts 171gr with my 12.8 bhn mix. I size 0.401 measured with a micrometer and use Carnauba red as my lube. I use AA #5 powder. This round shoots well in 4 different 40S&W guns with minimal leading, including a Shield. FWIW I'm not a fan of Lee molds.

[cwlongshot]

Packaged up and ready to go to you tomorrow.

CW

[GooseGestapo]

It’s the bullet (TL design).

I’ve tried several in 9mm, 10mm, and .45.
IMO, the foward and rear driving bands are too thin, and the molds tend to cast undersized.

On the other hand, I’ve worn out two 148gr WC 6-cavity molds and a 158gr SWC 6-cav mold casting bullets to shoot NRA PPC. (.38spl in revolvers at .358”).
I’ve gotten superlative performance from the Lee 120gr TC .356”. Mine casts to .358”, and I size to .357” for my S&W Performance Center PPC-9 Limited autos.

My .40Sheild won’t reliably feed the 145gr SWC (mine casts 155gr), but out shoots my G22 with the 175gr TCFN. I used tumble lube and size them to .401. Now, I Harbor Freight tumble powder coat them and size .401. I prefer 5.5gr of WSF, but also use 4.0gr of Bullseye.

[Dvdmacdaddy]

Is this what I need to use in my LEE powder through die?
238583

[Burnt Fingers]

Is this what I need to use in my LEE powder through die?
238583


No, that's for the Lee Universal Expanding die. It's a solid plug.

[JBinMN]

And I do not think that one pictured in the last 2 posts is the correct size from how you described your slug from your bbl. at .4015".

On the NOE plugs, the bigger number first is the "stepped portion" of the plug that does the flare of the case, the 2nd number is the size of the expander plug to form the case to fit the boolit.

{As in .404 x .400 (P) Exp. Plug - .404 is the wider step of the plug that will form the flare, & the .400 is the smaller diameter of the plug for expanding to boolit diameter.

You want the second number to be about .001 below the size you actually want you boolit to be once it is seated & then crimped( I suggest taper crimp, btw in a separate step from seating, but some folks don't taper crimp & some roll on some rounds even though they are for "pistols" & not revolvers, as well as seat & crimp at the same time. Your choice...)

Another way to know that your boolit won't be swaged down is to use the 2nd number so that you can push the boolit in(seat) with your thumb to about the last crimp groove not easily, but with a little bit of force. This will allow some case tension to hold the bullet in, so recoil, etc, doesn't change boolit position.("set back" usually, rather than moving outwards.) Be sure to check this possibility of setback by taking the completed round, measuring OAL & then pushing the boolit end against your bench to see if it moves in & then check the OAL again. If it has changed you need to readjust your expander die &/or plug, your crimp die, or both until you cannot more the boolit by pushing as described.

Note that different types of boolits types & mnfrs , as well as jacketed do not all sit in the case the same & and the expander plug you use should be checked to make sure it is compatible with the projectile used. That way you are not expanding deeper or shorter than you would like & possibly cause issues for yourself.

One last thing about the NOE plugs. If I am not mistaken, the (P) is to designate that the expander plug is a shorter one for (P)istols, and no (P) for rifle exp. plugs. Another thing to consider is that some of the rifle plugs can be used for pistols as well. So, be sure to check both lists, rifle & pistol to try to find what you need. If there is a need for a custom one you can call them or email & ask them about making one for you as well.

Hope I helped & G'Luck!
:)

P.S. - That image & plug being shown is not the one you would want for your 40 cal as it is too small an expander for your goal size of .4023 -.403 (based on your measurement of the slug you mentioned earlier in the topic), just in case you thought it was. I reckon you just used it as an example, but I thought I should mention it just in case. The closest that they show for either pistol or rifle is the .404 x .400 (P) Exp. Plug
[PEP-404x400] as far as what I saw there. You may have to talk to them about a plug for you if you choose to use their product(s) Once again, G'Luck!
:)

[DougGuy]

Leading and tumbling like that can only mean one thing, boolits too small. I would look at pulling a few from each batch and mic'ing them to see if you are swaging them when they are being loaded.

[JBinMN]

Leading and tumbling like that can only mean one thing, boolits too small. I would look at pulling a few from each batch and mic'ing them to see if you are swaging them when they are being loaded.

You may have missed it... See post#16 by the OP.
;)

[Walks]

Is there an after market bbl available ?

I have a Wolf bbl for both my Glocks, use the Lee 40-170-TC or the RCBS #40-180-RF. I cast of Linotype for a reliable feed. Still use the same RCBS dies I bought in 1992. Use a C&H taper crimp die to just kiss the case mouth closed. The Linotype is the std alloy for all my auto-loading cartridges. It's what worked for my DAD in every Surplus pistol available after WW2. So it's what I use. I know most will disagree with that, but too bad.

I will however be trying some PC'd bullets cast of a softer alloy soon.

[Dvdmacdaddy]

I have a 9mm aftermarket barrel by Alpha Wolf for it for plinking and some practice.

[Dvdmacdaddy]

Last night I casted 10 bullets marked which cavity they came from. Let the mold cool then took handles off cleaned the mold well with Bar Keepers Friend and 0000 steel wool. Then took some polishing compound and used the casted bullets to polish the inside of the cavities. Then cleaned the molds well with dawn and hot water, reattached the handles, sprayed the cavities and mold face with brake parts cleaner, lightly smoked the mold with a match. Casted 10 more bullets and measured with micrometer. The OOR situation is just about gone, .0005 OOR . Now to cast more, PC and wait on my M Die to arrive to test. In the mean time lapping my .401 sizing die to .402 (going to test for leading at .402 before lapping to .403).


In taking the mold handles off the Allen screw that held one side on was not secured all the way. So I’m wondering if that combined with smoke buildup was my OOR issue.

[DougGuy]

In the mean time lapping my .401 sizing die to .402 (going to test for leading at .402 before lapping to .403).

OP you really need to know what diameter your throat is in the barrel, there is freebore in there and if you lap the sizing die larger than the freebore, ammo will not chamber.


You may have missed it... See post#16 by the OP.
;)

You are correct sir...

[Dvdmacdaddy]

OP you really need to know what diameter your throat is in the barrel, there is freebore in there and if you lap the sizing die larger than the freebore, ammo will not chamber.



You are correct sir...

I got my chamber casting material in the mail today, hopefully have time to cast it tomorrow.

[DougGuy]

You also have to allow for springback, for instance a Lee .452" sizer, will only let a .4515" Z minus pin go through it. If you lap it to .402" and you have freebore that is .402" there will be interference b/c you have to stop short of the desired diameter so the boolit will be the desired size, -after- passing through the sizer.

[cwlongshot]

Recipt says you should have boolets Saturday!

Good luck!

CW


I got my chamber casting material in the mail today, hopefully have time to cast it tomorrow.

[Dvdmacdaddy]

Recipt says you should have boolets Saturday!

Good luck!

CW

Awesome just in time.

I have to have the micrometer back to him Sunday. So trying to get as much done with it while I can.

I was able to get my chamber cast done and the throat was .404", I also went ahead and re-slugged the barrel (to measure using the micrometer), which came out to .400". It was much easier to get a measurement using the micrometer vs calipers. I can now see how my measurements have been off using calipers, time to invest in a micrometer.

Any suggestions on micrometers under $50 (momma is gonna flip at that price too for a "bullet tool" as she would say). I priced the ones I am borrowing and they are $150, way outta my price range.

[Burnt Fingers]

I've found my Harbor Freight micrometer works just fine for my needs.

[DougGuy]

Any suggestions on micrometers under $50

Ebay is your friend. I got all my mics, calipers, pin gages, dial indicators, dial bore gauges from ebay, you can get used in excellent condition name brand high quality well made tooling for the same money you pay for new in the box Asian made garbage.

I paid $39 for my Mitutoyo Micrometer No. 193-211 In Original Hard Case 0 - 1" .0001" free shipping. This is a great mic for the buck!

I would highly recommend investing in a heavy mic base so it holds the mic for you and you have both hands free to hold the object being measured, and to turn the thimble.


I was able to get my chamber cast done and the throat was .404"

I am of a mind to question this one, and not saying you are doing anything wrong, but after throating dozens of barrels, I am looking at the line at the end of the freebore where the rifling leade-ins begin to pick up. The Freebore in the throat, is the smooth parallel part just behind this line. From what I see, the difference in that line and the grooves is not significant enough to be .002" in height. It looks like only a couple of tenths of one thousandth. If there was .004" difference between the freebore and the groove, meaning a step of .002" on both sides, that line would look like a trench! It would look like this HUGE ring in the barrel, and that one just doesn't look like there is more than half a thousandth difference and that's stretching it. I have done a LOT of these, and I have seen this line, it's not a tool mark, it is where the 1.5 degree angle picks up. I think it's smaller than .404"

[Dvdmacdaddy]

Ebay is your friend. I got all my mics, calipers, pin gages, dial indicators, dial bore gauges from ebay, you can get used in excellent condition name brand high quality well made tooling for the same money you pay for new in the box Asian made garbage.

I paid $39 for my Mitutoyo Micrometer No. 193-211 In Original Hard Case 0 - 1" .0001" free shipping. This is a great mic for the buck!

I would highly recommend investing in a heavy mic base so it holds the mic for you and you have both hands free to hold the object being measured, and to turn the thimble.



I am of a mind to question this one, and not saying you are doing anything wrong, but after throating dozens of barrels, I am looking at the line at the end of the freebore where the rifling leade-ins begin to pick up. The Freebore in the throat, is the smooth parallel part just behind this line. From what I see, the difference in that line and the grooves is not significant enough to be .002" in height. It looks like only a couple of tenths of one thousandth. If there was .004" difference between the freebore and the groove, meaning a step of .002" on both sides, that line would look like a trench! It would look like this HUGE ring in the barrel, and that one just doesn't look like there is more than half a thousandth difference and that's stretching it. I have done a LOT of these, and I have seen this line, it's not a tool mark, it is where the 1.5 degree angle picks up. I think it's smaller than .404"

Thanks for the heads up about ebay. Just bought the same mic for $40.

I remeasured the casting and still same numbers. Going to cast the chamber again and see if I get the same results.

[DougGuy]

If that freebore really is .404" and also you had boolits swaged down by the case, so you add the difference in .398" and .404" which is .006" divided by 2 is .003" on each side of the boolit, this would be plenty enough room for some serious gas cutting, so here is yet a 3rd factor contributing to an undersized boolit causing leading and tumbling.

Otoh, if you have alloy soft enough to swage the boolit down in the case, it may be soft enough to obturate and seal that .404" throat as it leaves the case mouth. The 40 is a high pressure cartridge, it certainly generates enough pressure to bump up a soft alloy. This is also another trick in getting the boolit to fit the throat, letting the pressure of firing do it for you.

[Dvdmacdaddy]

If that freebore really is .404" and also you had boolits swaged down by the case, so you add the difference in .398" and .404" which is .006" divided by 2 is .003" on each side of the boolit, this would be plenty enough room for some serious gas cutting, so here is yet a 3rd factor contributing to an undersized boolit causing leading and tumbling.

Otoh, if you have alloy soft enough to swage the boolit down in the case, it may be soft enough to obturate and seal that .404" throat as it leaves the case mouth. The 40 is a high pressure cartridge, it certainly generates enough pressure to bump up a soft alloy. This is also another trick in getting the boolit to fit the throat, letting the pressure of firing do it for you.

Best I can tell until my alloy analysis comes back is my alloy is about 9-10 BH. The thought of using a mini-lathe to make a hollow base into the bullet has crossed my mind, but very reluctant to attempt.

[DougGuy]

That should be soft enough to obturate, so being that it is leading and tumbling I would say it is not obturating enough to seal in the freebore and that gas cutting is very much one of the culprits here. Going to have to be a larger boolit. You just have to know when to stop lapping the sizing die!

[Dvdmacdaddy]

I am of a mind to question this one, and not saying you are doing anything wrong, but after throating dozens of barrels, I am looking at the line at the end of the freebore where the rifling leade-ins begin to pick up. The Freebore in the throat, is the smooth parallel part just behind this line. From what I see, the difference in that line and the grooves is not significant enough to be .002" in height. It looks like only a couple of tenths of one thousandth. If there was .004" difference between the freebore and the groove, meaning a step of .002" on both sides, that line would look like a trench! It would look like this HUGE ring in the barrel, and that one just doesn't look like there is more than half a thousandth difference and that's stretching it. I have done a LOT of these, and I have seen this line, it's not a tool mark, it is where the 1.5 degree angle picks up. I think it's smaller than .404"

I have been reading up on chamber casting and have a question. How much does Cerrosafe shrink when its cooled? And would it make that much difference in measuring the throat diameter? I'm wondering of slugging the throat would get me a better measurement.

[cwlongshot]

It shrinks EVER SO slightly (To facilitate extraction) then short time later expands to actual dia.. Last for some weeks then over time will shrink. IIRC...

CW

[DougGuy]

There is a timeframe when you are supposed to measure cerrosafe, I do know that much. I haven't used it.

Pin gages are what you really need to be using, and you need them in Z minus class, and you need the half thou increments. I would say .402" .4025" .403" .4035" and .404" would cover your application. I get singles from Meyer Gauge they are quite reasonable and first rate quality.

Otoh, you aren't looking for snug fit in the throat, you need a little wiggle room there, half thou or so, I wouldn't go any bigger than a whole thou under freebore with your sizing die, you will get springback which will give the boolit it's final diameter, unless boolits are allowed to sit for a number of months after casting and sizing, in which case they may grow a few tenths as they age harden.

For the price of postage both ways you could send both the barrel and the sizing die here and have it pinned, and/or the sizing die lapped to produce a boolit that will fit the throat nicely. There wouldn't be any cost to pin the barrel and get accurate measurements, but I do charge when I do machine work.

[Dvdmacdaddy]

Received my mic and checked its calibration with my feeler gauges. Checked both calipers with the feeler gauges also, one was dead on the other was -.001 off.

Recasted my chamber, much better cast than the first. Measured after an hour (per Rotometals suggestion) with my mic. The throat is .4025 and groove diameter is .401.

Received my new mold (Lee 401-175-TC) it is casting nice round .402 178gr boolits. Casted about 20-30 need to PC, load using an M die for case expansion, and test.

I ordered the 401-175-TC by mistake instead of the 401-145-SWC, figured why not give it a shot and see what happens.

[cwlongshot]

I have had that 175 in que for most of the last 6 months!!

Haha.

Good luck. Im intrested if it shoots as well as the lil 145’s!

CW

[Dvdmacdaddy]

239357

50 ladder loads done with the 401-175-TC, 1/2 sized before PC, other half as cast and PCd.

Pictured are as cast/PCd.

Used the M-Die to expand all the cases.

Attempted the acetone wet tumble method, haven’t had much success with dry tumble PC either, think I’ll just stick to electrostatic PC, or try Hi-Tek.

[Dvdmacdaddy]

Well folks you have succeeded at helping me and I greatly appreciate all your efforts.

The sweet spot was the Lee 401-175-TC PC'd and sized .402, case expanded with an M-Die, OAL 1.125, ever so slight taper crimp to aid in feeding, pushed by 4.5gr Universal, 920 fps with a standard deviation of 8 fps. Zero leading after 50 rounds. Honorable mention is 5.0 gr of Universal pushing the Lee 401-145-SWC PC'd sized .402, case expanded with an M-Die, OAL 1.125, ever so slight taper crimp to aid in feeding, 918fps, standard deviation of 17.
Now to clean brass, cast and load.

[rsrocket1]

Good job OP,

I love the 401-175-TC. With ASBBDT, it leaves the barrel clean as a whistle. My favorite load is anything that gets the bullet up to 950-1000 fps. Right now I've got a bunch of Titegroup and BE-86 so they are my primary powders. I've cast and shot around 50,000 rounds through my M&P40 1.0 fullsize and there is no reason to believe I can't shoot another 50k through it.

https://images2.imgbox.com/30/0f/EH9lD75e_o.jpg

https://images2.imgbox.com/3b/76/jUWn4nEy_o.jpeg

@ 10 yards standing
Now what I need to do is to keep shooting groups like the one on the left and not get excited and scattering them like the next group I shot

https://images2.imgbox.com/64/c4/KYclNnmZ_o.jpg

[DougGuy]

The throat is .4025 and groove diameter is .401.

I am glad you got it sorted, sorta.. I *knew* there was no way that throat was .404" seen too many of them, and it didn't look very much different from the .4025" that I ream them to.