Cast bullet performance

[dhom]

I know this may be splitting hairs but, I would like some opinions. I want to use cast bullets for deer hunting. The velocity window can be from 850-1350 fps. I am considering swc's or wfn. I will probably use gas checked bullets. The bullet alloys I want are 2-2-96 or 20:1. Which would be better? I do want expansion and they will be shot from revolvers.

[mattw]

WFT will have the advantage in energy transfer and explansion, but how far do you plan to shot? I shoot a bunch of LBT OWC's in 41 mag and they do kinda turn into a flying turd out around 100 yards or so.

[StrawHat]

A lot depends on what caliber and what cartridge you intend to use. I consider anything that starts with .4 to be expanded enough even when still in the case. That is the reason I don’t hunt with the 36 caliber revolvers.

Even with my 45s, I like as much meplat as I can get. I have a Saeco mood that gives me 240 grain full wadcutter boolits. With my loads and my revolvers they are good out to 75 yards or so.

Get back to us with a little more information.

Kevin

[sixshot]

I shoot an alloy that is as soft as I can get away with & still maintain accuracy at the velocity I want. You don't say what caliber you're shooting but if it's 41 caliber or bigger & pushed 1000-1100 fps you will be fine. I powder coat all my bullets & I can shoot a fairly soft alloy with a plain base with great results.
The last 4-5 years since the Miha moulds have came out I've used quite a few HP style bullets for deer & antelope with great results. Some will say HP's aren't needed & I'm one of them but so far they have worked great & many one shot kills. Maybe a dozen deer & 3 antelope with the 357 Maximum, 41, 44 & 45, almost all HP's & all powder coated.
I've recovered maybe 3-4 bullets, the others were pass through's. Shot 5 last year with 5 different revolvers & recovered one bullet.

Dick

[bmortell]

id vote WFN at 1300 with 2-2-96 out of the options given. should expand a little bit trumpet shaped for a wider wide flat nose, should hammer deers quite nicely. in my opinion you don't want so much expansion that it fully rounds over because round is a less effective shape.

[bmortell]

238217 heres my swc and wfn 44mag testing in either water or soaked phonebooks lovely displayed on cocobolo for your viewing pleasure.

Left to right is, first pure lead swc 1400 paper patched from rifle. Next keith bullet 2.3 tin 3.6 antimony 1300fps, next same alloy speed wfn, next same bullet 1400, last a hard wfn about 20 hardness 1300 still expanded a little bit nose is wider.

My barrels are 9.5" and 20" so higher speeds come easy, but really any of these would do deer fine. I just think wfn is best because it stays pretty flat and strong upfront with good mass behind it for long straight wounds.

[Thumbcocker]

I have shot deer with RNFP and Keith boolits in .44 magnum. Was not trying for expansion. ACWW alloy. The deer died.

[jmort]

I have shot deer with RNFP and Keith boolits in .44 magnum. Was not trying for expansion. ACWW alloy. The deer died.

Makes sense

[megasupermagnum]

Get 20:1 alloy north of 1300 fps, and you will have a devastating deer bullet. You probably don't need a GC, although it can't hurt. Run a 20:1 hollow point if you want much under that 1300 fps.

[StrawHat]

A 260 grain 45 caliber SWC at 850-900 FPS will penetrate a white tailed deer from stem to stern and not be recovered. Do they expand? I doubt it. Does it matter? Not a bit.

Kevin

[Bigslug]

20-1 into milk jugs at close range:

238243
130 grain .32 WFN on the right at about 1250 fps - stopped in third jug, which is about par for the course with police duty pistol rounds. Bullet on the left is from the same mold and of some water quenched wheelweight analog. Same load, but took nine jugs to stop that one.

238244
180 grain .40 S&W bullet shot from a .38-40 rifle at something like 1350fps. Stopped in jug #4.

238245
230 grain LBT LFN at bog-standard GI hardball 1911 speeds. Cast of water quenched wheel weight, and even at the relatively pokey 830 fps, it took nine jugs to bring it to a halt.

238246
Hollow base .455 Webley MKIV bullet cast of really soft 8BHN stuff at about 600-625 fps. Zero deformation. I seem to recall it took 4-6 jugs, but details are hazy.

So on the topic of getting it to expand. . .I'm a little dubious. You have to have the right metal hitting at the right range so it impacts at the right speed. With a harder .40+ caliber WFN, I KNOW it won't expand, and I KNOW that it will chop a 3/4" hole in a straight line through whatever meat I point it at,at pretty much whatever distance it hits at. When you give up on the mushroom, you can then just load to optimize accuracy and/or trajectory. Not saying that this approach is necessarily right, but it does cut WAY down on the variables to contend with.

[dhom]

I will be using 44 mag,45 colt [ruger], 45-70 14" contender, 454 Casull [FA83], and 475 L [BFR]. Mostly 7 1/2" revolvers except contender 14". I also have 5 1/2" 44 mags and 45 colt. bmortell===I would like to get some expansion like your picture of bullets #4 and #5. IMHO, going thru 3 or 4 gallon jugs is where I want to be. Again, this is for whitetail deer hunting. [and yes I do realize expansion isn't necessary]

[Bigslug]

20-1 is indeed good stuff then, though I've found the accuracy to get a bit less than stellar as the speeds creep up. I have not, however, tried revving it up with a gas check on the back. Worth trying.

Having a long history of psedo-scientifically busting jugs, I would suggest a couple points:

*get some of the 2-2.5 gallon rectangular ones with the pull-out pour spigot. These stack in rows a little tighter and they give you more width to work with. You can use your standard milk and OJ jugs for the first few in the stack, but if there's any deviation, the extra width is nice.

*Shoot off a rest. I do mine from prone on the most level ground I can find. An adjustable height bench rest lets you lock in at the right level and will save you some lost slugs.

*Load down to the point your muzzle velocity duplicates the speed your full power load should have at the range you expect to kill your deer at. This way, you can plug your jugs at ten yards and not have to sweat alignment with the jugs over long distances.

*Since you'll likely be running WFN's you don't patently need a lot of jugs. If your bullet expands 7-8 should be plenty to stop it. If it doesn't expand, you'll waste a lot of water figuring out you have enough penetration for TWO elk, and you'll simply have a meplat-sized exit anyway. Good enough for data collection.

[bmortell]

I usually have some soaked phonebooks first to do the expanding, assuming its closer to meat than just water.
then 1-3 gallon jugs depending on what im shooting, to slow it down
last a cardboard box filled with old pants with a plastic bag over it so it don't soak.
lined up on a 2x12. found pants to be quite bulletproof to slowed down expanded lead.

[dhom]

I was looking at my load data and can say most bullets will be launched at 1200-1300 fps. I have accurate loads for almost all revolvers listed in that range. An exception would be 45 colt with 5 1/2" barrel. My accuracy load for that one is 1050 fps with a 260 gr SWC and 1110 fps with a 315 RNGC from Matts bullets. I did not run the 7 1/2" 45 colt thru a chrono. Actually, would probably shoot close to 1200 fps.

[contender1]

Go & re-read sixshot's post. He has taken many, many heads of game over the decades using cast bullets. He's a bit modest here. He has vast experience in the field,, on actual game,, not water jugs. A magic bullet that does it all simply doesn't exist. You know,, the one that penetrates completely, expands to a wide meplat, retains weight,, at all velocities & at all angles in game. Bullet placement is part of the equation.
I think any of the bullets & guns you mentioned will be just fine in a deer. Including the 45 running 1050 with the 260 grn bullet. Of the ones you mentioned,, all of them should give you complete penetration, and kill the deer. Bullet placement will determine the variations. And, as mentioned in another post above,, distance can be a big factor. The wider the meplat can often be detrimental at longer distances.
In general, a good design, (like a Keith design,) in a SWC,,, moving at 1000-1200 fps will kill deer quite well out to 100 yds & beyond if bullet placement is right.

[rfd]

IMHO, there is nothing better than a lubed cast bullet of proper alloy for all handguns for accuracy and hunting performance ... other than a coated cast alloy bullet, which is all i'll use these dayze.

[FN in MT]

No offense meant OP but I think you are really over thinking this. Deer are easy to kill. Use any true Keith SWC or any of the WFN/LFN slugs, with proper placement and it's a done deal. Aim for the heart/lung area, DO be careful of any game behind the intended victim as these slugs WILL generally exit. I've killed many deer, a few antelope and a four elk with SWC's in .41's to .45's. So I do have a little experience.

[salvadore]

I have to agree with fninmt, bullet placement is the key. So practice.