Shiloh

[Lethemgo]

I've had a Shiloh sharps for a while now and love shooting 45/70 even though I just don't go do it enough. Posted in paper patch section and now have some boolits to get started and eventually get into rolling my own. Haven't shot blackpowder in it yet ether so it's about time! Been drooling on another and now a 45/100 to learn about. Getting ready to cast up some boolits this after and be ready to go to the range. Don't have dies for a 45/100 but figure being careful I could just use my 45/70 and have some rounds boxed up. Plus fire form brass to start the paper patching experience. Next I'll have to invest in a slick mold or going to try to make one myself....we'll see.
So what do you think, I also have some 405 jacketed bullets I could use to expand some cases. After i came home i noticed the sight was bent. Watched some kid playing with any gun that was over 2k at the gun show and he pushed this sight down. Didn't think about it at the time but when I got home I wasn't happy. Trying to figure out how to straighten it without breaking it. Thinking put a couple #s of lead on it on a flat surface, maybe adding a little heat. Don't like bending metal back luck has never been with me on thst one.


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[country gent]

Strengthen it or straighten it? If straighten I believe I would start with a piece of flat stock ( fairly heavy maybe 3/4" by 1" set so its 1" thickness) Disassemble the rear sight so you just have the staff lay flat on the flat stock and with your thumb press it to work most of the bend out as best you can. Once its close place shims under each end of staff and press down. I would guess .015 under each end to start to remove the spring back. use a 6" steel rules edge to check straightness as you go. Press with thumb or small wood block. hammering will stretch the metal surface and may bow it side to side. Work slow and easy by hand. If you go with a wood block slightly radius the ends one for comfort and the other to give a pinpoint pressure push. This doesn't have to be much and can be done with a strip of sandpaper. A nice form block can be made in a triangle shape about 1" - 1 1/2" wide at the top and 1/2"-3/4" at the working end, make it about 3" long. This gives a nice wide surface to fit in the palm and push on with the narrow end giving a good area for straightening. With this block pushing or sliding to straighten is easier, and the wood surface will be easier on the surface and finish.

The bend appears to be a straight and even ( square) bend and shouldn't be to hard to work out. Simply uses pushing force will work it out As stated hammering or tapping may stretch the metal and cause additional issues Buy getting close and using controlled over bends with the shims you can get it very close to dead straight again. I would be leery of heating as it may also warp and discolor the piece

[Lethemgo]

Should have known you'd answer ha I should have just messaged you. Pretty much what I was going to do and it's setting on the bench right now. Working on cleaning out my Lyman 450 need some softer lube in there. I made a steel plate and drilled and tapped for presses and luber. Made it big enough I could put an iron on it to act as a heater. To many things going on and it's nice enough I could be at the range.

[country gent]

I went with a friend today to a local clubs gun show and rolled around. Was looking at a high wall in 40-65 was a nice older build with good wood checkering and metal work. Bore looked good only had a short range soule type rear sight though. Guy was asking $1000.00 for it. wasn't a bad price for rifle with sights.
The wood form/pusher I described makes straightening forming a lot easier. I have several in different shapes here now and when the next fix or project comes in none seem right. lol. Working slow and easy with as little force as needed when straightening or forming a part makes it a lot easier.

[oldred]

Getting that thing hot enough to help straighten it would destroy not only the finish but would probably even cause some scaling, simply heating it a little to a lower point that wouldn't damage the finish would accomplish nothing. Besides no heat will be necessary and the method suggested by Country Gent will quickly solve the problem without damaging anything.

[marlinman93]

No need to heat it, they aren't that hard of a metal, and will straighten easily. But the key is to support it exactly opposite of how it bent! It appears the sight was laying down on the comb, and then supported at the pivot point while the kid pushed on the eye cup area. So it needs to be taken off and supported at the same point it would touch the stock comb, and the other end supported at the pivot area.
Now the tricky part is to not just push it down with your thumb and end up with a curve or bow in the staff. So set it up supported on your drill press, and put a piece of 3/8" wooden dowel in the chuck. Then crank the head down until the dowel touches the eye cup and slowly press it down. Keep checking it after each press until it is perfectly flat. I've done these for several people, on several old original, and new repro vernier sights, and it always works great.

[Gtek]

My 2 cents if I may. I would lay it flat and raising ends as stated above. But I would probably put masking tape on back and find as close as one can high point and marking then use a small dowel (Phillips screwdriver shank) at found high spot at a 90 . Being able to see lateral and applied on point, hopefully removing chance of a (ripple?). The one side is stretched, looking to stretch the other side the same. Good luck, nice looking rifle!

[marlinman93]

It doesn't appear bent enough to cause a "ripple" or indent at the point of the bend when straightened. I think it will come out fine using the drill press like an arbor press to push it back.
Another method I've used successfully is to use the vise to clamp the staff between two pieces of flat hardwood. Just strip off the eye cup, and base. Then leave the pivot end outside the blocks and clamp the staff in the vise between the blocks. This often will flatten it out without having to over bend it.
Just be thankful it's not a vernier tang sight, as straightening the lead screw can be a real booger to get right, and still not bind.

[BigAl52]

I have a Shiloh LRE in 45-100. Had it for over 15 years. I use to shoot it all the time. It hasnt seen a bullet in 10 years or more. I tried the use 45-70 dies and ended up buying 45-100 dies as it was just easier. 86 grains of 1FG Swiss and a 540gr Paul Jones Creedmore bullet worked great for me. Had alot of fun with that rifle.

[Lethemgo]

Well worked on sight and got it pretty close. No perfect but close will shoot it and see if all is good. When he pushed on it the eye piece was all the way down and sight was all the way forward and at the travel stop. The sight being down the sliding part acted as the spot where it bent. It didn't effect the travel of eye piece since it was all the way down. Hey maybe I could shoot down hill better lol. Should be good to go and I'll see if the little bit its off bothers me any since its barely noticeable. Cast some 405 and have some 5744 so going to load that up in 20 rounds and try a range trip.

[marlinman93]

You may end up wanting to go to a vernier type anyway so you can make more accurate elevation adjustments. I've always fought trying to adjust that Gallery style tang sight that simply loosens the eyecup to slide for elevation. Just very hard to get minor changes and not go too far.
Once you've fired it a bit, and fiddled with elevation changes you might go for a true vernier.

[country gent]

I have always wondered if a sight adjustment tool similar to the one for the Springfield's could be made for those gallery type sights. A simple micrometer head with a stop to rest on the top of the staff and a non rotating end to set over the eye piece. Would make adjusting in .001 or .005 increments ( Depending on thread used) a lot easier. That's sight looks like it would take a 3" range of adjustment. A micrometer thimble made up with a 1/4 20 thread would give .002 adjustments per graduation 1/4 40 would be the same as a micrometer adjustment per graduation and give .001. Really fancy would be a dial indicator with reverese reading dial and the needed range of travel then set it on and set sight to setting and go.

Once you figure out how many thousandths of an inch move one min with your sight radius a depth mic or the depth rod on a caliper and a little math can get you very close. The true Vernier soule sights are quicker and easier to adjust and give windage adjustments when needed.

[sharps4590]

My first Shiloh had one of those types of tang sights. It lasted about 10 rounds before I ordered a good sight.

[1Hawkeye]

I know it's a bit after the fact but I was always taught to put the tang sight down towards the stock so it doesn't get damaged. If you replace it I would recommend mva's mid range #307 I think is the number. I have them on both my Shiloh's and am happy with them.