40-65 win

[bikerbeans]

I am considering a JES rebore to 45-60 win. I will cut the chamber with a 4D reamer and use correct HS Starline brass. Now the 64K question, what boolit diameter? Published info runs from 0.406" to 0.411 boolit OD. I can spec the groove to be a couple thousands under boolit size so what do you folks think? I will be loading to a max OAL of 2.6", using a 260g boolit.

BB

[1Hawkeye]

The best thing to do would be what Jessie at JES reboring cuts the barrel to and recommends for bullet diameter then go from there. When He does a rebore that also includes cutting the chamber so you don't need a reamer.

[EDG]

The .40-65 has evolved into a different round than originally designed.
Modern .40-65 rifles are all single shots set up for .408 bullets that are long and heavy. This kind of ammo is not suitable for use in a lever gun repeater.
The original .40-65 was a slow twist light bullet round with a .406 bullet. These bullets were also flat pointed for use in the tube magazine.

Original Winchester lever guns were .406 and the older reloading die sets are built for this with a .416 neck section in the FL die.

Most molds for the old rifles only produce a 260 grain bullet for the slow express type rifling twist.
The old rifles will not stabilize a long heavy bullet. The older designs might be preferred for a repeater that cannot use a long pointed bullet.

Modern .40-65s are designed to be .408 with the newer loading dies having a neck section about .421 diameter.
The more modern single shots are normally .408 and have a faster twist for the long heavy 400 grain bullets. The modern molds cast around .409 to .410.

[bikerbeans]

Well looks like the availability of a rental reamer will dictate the groove diameter, 0.408 to 0.409". I can get with Accurate to source an appropriate 260g boolit for this modified marlin 336. Now to talk to JES regarding the rebore. This will be a 100 yard deer rifle so maybe it will be ready this fall.

BB

[skeettx]

How will you get the 336 to load, feed, and work the 45-70 case head?
Thanks
Mike

[Texas by God]

Jes has that .410"/.444 chambering to consider as well.

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[Jedman]

Sounds like you have some extra parts for a M 336 that want to be reconfigured.
That would be a good OH deer cal. that not everyone else has but then you have a half dozen or more M 336's in cals. that no one else has now.
Life is to short to stop a hobby before you reach room temperature.

Jedman

[bikerbeans]

How will you get the 336 to load, feed, and work the 45-70 case head?
Thanks
Mike

A lot of work, but i have already converted a 336 frame to an 1895 frame. The 2 frames are dimensionally the same, the difference is the 1895 has a lot of metal removed internally to accomodate a larger diameter cartridge. If you disassemble a 336 and 1895 frame and compare the internal parts and look at the frames it is clear what you need to do. A short incomplete list,

Enlarge ejection port, mag tube opening and feed ramp opening.

Modify carrier

Buy an 1895 mag tube and foreend parts

Open internal area of frame where the carrier cycles.

Buy an 1895 bolt or modify the 336 bolt.

I plan to pull the barrel off the 336 i already converted to 1895 for this project. It may or may not stay a 40-65 win, i tend to change my mind a bit.

BB

[bikerbeans]

Jes has that .410"/.444 chambering to consider as well.

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Thomas,

I like the 405 JES, but the shoulder makes it illegal for deer in Ohio. Stupid regulators.

BB

[cwtebay]

Thomas,

I like the 405 JES, but the shoulder makes it illegal for deer in Ohio. Stupid regulators.

BBI own one JES rebore that I purchased second hand. It came with recommended bullet diameter from JES. And not to pirate this thread, but I was invited to hunt with a friend in Ohio this fall and have some questions about the cartridge selection. I called Ohio dnrc and was told the same thing as it says online - I asked specifically about 44-40, the gentleman I spoke to said absolutely legal and that's what he himself hunts with. Is there an "approved cartridge" list somewhere?
Thank you.
(Please feel free to move this post if not appropriate)


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[KCSO]

What caliber 40-65 or 45-60? My 40-65 works best with a 410 bullet but you will have to measure the chamber and slug the bore to be sure. 45-60 are mostly same as 45-70 or 457 bore. The problem with 40-65 in a lever gun is most barrels now days are cut for heavy bullets. The original levergun round was 260 grain bullet with almost no throat it was an express round. Current twists are 1-16 or 1-18 and Winchester ran 1-26 IIRR. Make sure you specify ahead of time what you want as a 400 grain bullet for 1-16 will have to be seated so deep you will have no room for powder.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
The groove on all my JES cut .41 caliber rifles is .412 to include the 405 JES. If the 405 JES has a shoulder then you will never find it. It is a straight taper case that feeds perfect through our 336 done by JES.
Mike in Peru

[bikerbeans]

Mike,

Admittedly the "bottleneck" on a 405 JES is very small but per the cartridge drawing i have it exists. Whether or not an Ohio game warden would write a citation would have to be field tested. In general i have found the guys in the green suites know a lot less about the laws they enforce than i do.

BB

[bikerbeans]

I own one JES rebore that I purchased second hand. It came with recommended bullet diameter from JES. And not to pirate this thread, but I was invited to hunt with a friend in Ohio this fall and have some questions about the cartridge selection. I called Ohio dnrc and was told the same thing as it says online - I asked specifically about 44-40, the gentleman I spoke to said absolutely legal and that's what he himself hunts with. Is there an "approved cartridge" list somewhere?
Thank you.
(Please feel free to move this post if not appropriate)


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Ohio does not have an approved cartridge list, just the definition of what is legal. They do point out that bottleneck cartridges are not legal.

BB

[bikerbeans]

What caliber 40-65 or 45-60? My 40-65 works best with a 410 bullet but you will have to measure the chamber and slug the bore to be sure. 45-60 are mostly same as 45-70 or 457 bore. The problem with 40-65 in a lever gun is most barrels now days are cut for heavy bullets. The original levergun round was 260 grain bullet with almost no throat it was an express round. Current twists are 1-16 or 1-18 and Winchester ran 1-26 IIRR. Make sure you specify ahead of time what you want as a 400 grain bullet for 1-16 will have to be seated so deep you will have no room for powder.

40-65 with a 260g boolit so i can load and cycle it in a marlin lever gun.

BB

[KCSO]

Then try for a 1-18 twist and then if you want I can send you some 320 I had made for my hunting gun and with smokless they should chamber and give you a little more punch.

[country gent]

One thing I have done is assemble a dummy round with the desired bullet and send that along with the firearm. It gives the smith a idea of whats going to be used and whars expected when done.

[bikerbeans]

The "smith" is me. I will make several dummy rounds to assist with fine tuning the functioning.

BB

[EDG]

If you want a .40 cal with a heavier bullet you might consider the .40-60 Win.
This is a shorter case permitting you a longer bullet to be used in a faster twist. The powder capacity is less than a .40-65 but should be ok with smokeless. It also uses .45-70 brass trimmed to 1.89 long.
Flat point bullets would still be required.