Ray Thompson & the 358156

[John Van Gelder]

I am not exactly sure when this bullet was designed, it dates back to the early days of the .357 Magnum. A very useful bullet, with two crimp grooves so you can use the bullet seated to the top groove in .357 Magnum brass or use the same loads in .38 spl brass and crimp at the bottom groove.

I have shot a lot of these over the last 50 years and without gas checks in standard .38 loads and with gas checks for high speed ,357 loads. This bullet works well with Hodgdons Lil' Gun powder, Hodgdon load data indicates 1577 fps with 18 gr, (158 gr, bullet) with only 25,800 cup. Their load data is referenced with a 10" pressure test barrel. In my 4" GP 100 I am getting an average of 1450 fps, using the Thompson GC bullet, which in my alloy weighs 155 gr., with the copper gas check.

Good performance with a cast bullet in a 4" barrel.

[Larry Gibson]

The 358156 is my favorite top end performer in the 38 SPL and the 357 Magnum. It also is a solid performer in my M91 Argie 35 Remington.

I was under the impression the 358156 was designed for 38/44 level loads with 2400 with the bullet seated out to the 2nd crimp groove for use in 38 SPL cases(?).

Been gonna cast some up to pressure test with them seated out in magnum cases with 2400 and H110. Be interesting to see what the increased case capacity does lowering pressure with "book" loads seated to the 1st crimp groove and how much improvement in velocity can be made while staying within SAAMI MAP.

[gwpercle]

Back in the late 1960's 38 special brass littered the shooting ranges , free for the taking and I had picked up buckets .....but 357 magnum brass was hard to find.
Skeeter Skelton wrote about casting the 358156 and loading it in 38 special brass to feed his 357 magnum revolvers .... I had just bought a new Ruger Blackhawk 357 , had 38 brass and promptly picked up this mould . Problem solved !
I still have the gun and the single cavity mould and use both .
I'm not going to tell you the load I shot in that Blackhawk ... lets just say it came from the brand new 1970 Speer Manual # 8 ! I'm very thankful the Ruger BH was built heck for stout !
Gary

[Michael J. Spangler]

Subscribed.
I love this boolit and cast and shoot more of it than any other.

[Nueces]

I used this bullet, in the Lyman HP form, and loaded to Skeeter's 38/44 level, to take a Texas javelina.

[Rex]

John, I have a single cavity mold for this bullet and loaded some today. I have a barrel leading S&W 686 and this seems to be the least expensive option also they shoot quite well. Still playing with loads to find something that the revolver, me and my arthritis all like.

[beagle]

The 358156 was an early favorite and got a lot of play from Skeeter Skelton. Great bullet. In the early loading days is was shunned by casters a lot for the fact that it required a gas check which in those days cost as much as $5 a thousand. As a result it might have been more popular. Later on in life, I removed the gas check shank from mine and it performs just as well as a PB design. I always hated to shoot a bullet designed as a gas check design without the check. Now I shoot loads in the Blackhawks and Marlin .357 carbine. One of my favorites./beagle

[Walks]

I've shot this bullet since I was 10yrs old, THAT'S 55yrs today. In both .357Mag Cases & .38spl cases seated out, using the "Skeeter Load" . I've sent more thousands down the bbl of a 6 1/2" NM Blackhawk then I can count. The gas cutting stopped about 20,000 rds ago, and it's more accurate today then I can shoot. It's even gone done the bbl's of my BROWNING '92 & my MARLIN 1894CS by more thousands.

I think It's the very Best Bullet for the .357Mag there is.

[tigweldit]

358156 w/gc + 2400 (Skeeter load) + WW brass (trimmed and roll crimped) + CCI 550 + Ruger SS Security Six 6" = 150 yards of great security. Been using this combo for many years with confidence. Other brass (Fed, Rem,Starline,+++) all have performed well for me. I just happen to have a big bucket WW .357's.

[ioon44]

I used the 358156 in 9 mm heavy loads and worked great, wish I still had the mold.

[Green Frog]

The 358156 was an early favorite and got a lot of play from Skeeter Skelton. Great bullet. In the early loading days is was shunned by casters a lot for the fact that it required a gas check which in those days cost as much as $5 a thousand. As a result it might have been more popular. Later on in life, I removed the gas check shank from mine and it performs just as well as a PB design. I always hated to shoot a bullet designed as a gas check design without the check. Now I shoot loads in the Blackhawks and Marlin .357 carbine. One of my favorites./beagle

Friend Beagle said pretty much what I was thinking except that I haven’t seen the need to remove the GC groove... I’m more DGD (don’t give a ****) than OCD where I can’t see an immediate benefit. It’s also nice to have the option of adding the GC if I want to hot rod the load.if I were 30 years younger and loading as much as I did then, I’d probably have a 2- or 4 cavity PB mould custom cut while keeping the original GC mould as is... after all, it’s one of the first moulds I ever owned!;)

[John Van Gelder]

I have no idea of how old my mold is it is one I got from my father. He had been using it for quite a few years before giving it to me. Like Rex mine is a single cavity mold, not fast production but after 50+ years it still produces a good bullet.

loon44.. I had thought about trying some of those gullets in the 9mm, the problem with loading long SWC bullets in the 9 is that the long bullet pushes far enough back into the case that they start to bulge the cases. My thought was by using this bullet without the GC the rebated base would alleviate that problem. I would like your thoughts on that.

Someone mentioned the cost of gas checks, this bullet should be a lot more popular theses days with the number of tools there are to make your own gas checks out of beverage can aluminium.

The 358156 in the hollow point form at rifle velocities seems like it would almost be too destructive, of "edibles"..

[INTRLOPER]

I'll be the odd man out. I have never seen the 358156 be as accurate in anything as a properly designed RNFP bullet. Maybe it is just me. I gave both my SC and my DC 358156's to a fellow bullet caster. Never liked the design, why keep it right?

[John Van Gelder]

As with all things results may vary.. I also have the 357446 bullet, I have read lots of negative comments about that bullet, but it has always worked well for me. I have many molds, and other than a little 115 grn SWC, that I just cant get to shoot well in any of my 9s, they all seem to work well for me. However I have a suspicion that I do not shoot well enough to tell if it is the bullet or the shooter..:wink:

[TCFAN]

Let me be another vote in favor of the 358156.I have 2 double cavity and one single cavity hollow point Lyman molds and a NOE version of the 358156 in a 4 cavity hollow point mold.This is in my opinion a good boolit design and I like the fact that it is a gas check boolit.I do make my own gas checks...

[sundog]

+1 for the 358156 (and the RCBS 38-158 SWC). Either of these pushed at moderate to high velocity do a very good job in .357 mag.

[Green Frog]

With its SWC design the 357156 loads easily with speedloaders into a revolver chamber, then prints well on the target with its square, full diameter shoulder. Its flat nose makes it good for hunting as well as self defense. If you want to drive it hard you can add the gas check, but honestly, at any but the highest pressures it does just as well without a GC. The weight is close enough to the old standard RN factory round it’s easy to load for use in fixed sight guns.

If I were limited to just one bullet for 38s and 357s, this would be it. :Fire:

Froggie

[Rex]

It is starting to get above freezing and our snow is gone so I took a hand full of these bullets loaded 12 grains of 2400, part in 357 cases and part in 38 special cases seated long. I couldn't tell much difference. My 686 seemed to like the 38 case a little better but maybe I was just concentrating harder with them. I stop at 12 grain because my arthritis hurts. I'm old but still have to remind myself to wait for a good sight picture and slowly squeeze the trigger, don't pull it. You'd think that would come second nature after a while. Still too cool to set up the Chrony and check speed, that will come later. My S&W 686 is a barrel leading SOB, the 358156 with checks take care of all that.

[Hick]

Love the 358-156. I actually bought one when I didn't know what it was. I had an old ideal mold for my 32 WS and needed old style mold handles-- so I bid on a mold that had the right handles (gunbroker) and got the mold for $35. I only bought it for the handles, then discovered the mold was the 358-156. When I bought a 357 magnum later that yer I quickly discovered how good that bullet really is.

[dondiego]

I've shot this bullet since I was 10yrs old, THAT'S 55yrs today. In both .357Mag Cases & .38spl cases seated out, using the "Skeeter Load" . I've sent more thousands down the bbl of a 6 1/2" NM Blackhawk then I can count. The gas cutting stopped about 20,000 rds ago, and it's more accurate today then I can shoot. It's even gone done the bbl's of my BROWNING '92 & my MARLIN 1894CS by more thousands.

I think It's the very Best Bullet for the .357Mag there is.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY........ a day late, but I just got to this thread. Youngun'!

[ioon44]

I have no idea of how old my mold is it is one I got from my father. He had been using it for quite a few years before giving it to me. Like Rex mine is a single cavity mold, not fast production but after 50+ years it still produces a good bullet.

loon44.. I had thought about trying some of those gullets in the 9mm, the problem with loading long SWC bullets in the 9 is that the long bullet pushes far enough back into the case that they start to bulge the cases. My thought was by using this bullet without the GC the rebated base would alleviate that problem. I would like your thoughts on that.

Someone mentioned the cost of gas checks, this bullet should be a lot more popular theses days with the number of tools there are to make your own gas checks out of beverage can aluminium.

The 358156 in the hollow point form at rifle velocities seems like it would almost be too destructive, of "edibles"..



I only loaded the 358156 with out a gas check and the front driving band is smaller so I could seat the bullet longer with out any case bulging.

I sized these to .357" the mold I had the front driving band was like .3555" but other molds may not cast like this one did.

[John Van Gelder]

ioon44

Any idea of what you over all length was..?

[ioon44]

No idea, this was in the 1990's. You need to set the over all length to fit your gun so the loaded round drops into the chamber.

[Green Frog]

From the title of this thread, I also thought we might be discussing Ray Thompson, the man credited with designing this bullet. What I have heard about him is that he was a park ranger or game warden or some similar career and designed the bullet for his types of real life outdoor applications. Since he was not a writer, the word about his bullet design spread mostly by word of mouth for many years while Elmer Keith's designs got more publicity and a jump start on popularity. Nothing wrong with the Keith bullet, of course, but the sheer utility of the Thompson bullet and word of mouth publicity through the reloading and shooting community made it the popular bullet it became. Of course by the time Skeeter told us about it, he had been using the Thompson bullet for years and if it needed any publicity he gave it in spades.

So, as this thread grows, I for one would love to read about anything we can learn about Ray Thompson and his career as a reloader/shooter and whatever his actual vocation was. :coffeecom

Froggie

[Nueces]

The Lyman "Handbook of Cast Bullets", their first, 1958, has Ray Thompson's page facing Elmer Keith's. Lyman identified Thompson as a Forest Ranger. The page has notes on all his Lyman designs, the 358156, 431215, 431244 and 452490.

I've enjoyed using them all, along with the Keith designs.

[Gatch]

358156 would be awesome for ipsc minor loads. Probably only need 3.0gr of ap70 to make pf

[Forrest r]

Planned on doing a little bit of testing with a 358156 hp & mp-300 later on this month. In the handloader #274 oct/nov 2011 Brian Pearce did an article using mp-300 in several different calibers. One of them was the 357mag using a 6" bbl'd gp-100 & the lyman 358156 hp bullet/starline cases/fed 100 primers. Was going to test the 358156hp/mp-300 combo in 6"/8" & 10" bbl'd 357mag firearms. Pearce data:

Mp-300 velocity velocity spread
16.5gr 1420fps 33fps
17.5gr 1475fps 30fps
18.5gr 1556fps 8fps


Have a couple hundred 358156 hp's cast up, pc'd & gc'd and sized to .358". Last year I did try a 18.5gr load of mp-300 coupled with the mihec 359640 bullet cast out of 9bhn alloy that was pc'd. There was no leading with that load but it really wasn't impressive either. I was getting 1450+fps in a 6" bbl/1550+fps in a 8" bbl/1630+ in a 10" bbl with that mihec/mp-300 combo.


The Thompson bullet has always performed at extremely high levels in everything I've tested it in. Should be interesting to see if I can get anywhere near the 1550+fps pearce got with that 358156hp/mp-300 combo in a 6" bbl'd 357mag.

[Green Frog]

I’ll be curious to know how the 358156, a traditional design for old fashioned grease and wax type lube will do in a PC environment. Sounds like an interesting line of experimentation. :coffee:

Froggie

[AllanD]

This 358156 is the first mold I ever owned, bought new in a double cavity along with a shiny LAS2
and a big box of 35cal Lyman checks. Saying that from that time and my little 10LB Lee production pot,
To say that I cast 20,000 of them would likely be a gross understatement, as I haven't actually loaded any pistol ammo since 1995 and I've still got a milk crate full of loaded ammo in MTM boxes, around 5000 rounds.

To say nothing of the rounds fried over the years, I've still got 3000 or so cast sized and lubed in other MTM boxes. bullets that I cast about 1990 and haven't yet loaded.

Except now I'm looking to buy a four cavity example!

[marlin39a]

My favorite mold for 357 loads is the 358156. I size it .358 with a GC. It gets pushed hard over 2400 in 357 cases. Oh, and I cast them hard with a good dose of Linotype. I also use Ray Thompsons 429215 and 429244 in my 44 Specials.

[Walks]

Interloper,

In my youth I cast from a pair of 2cav molds. I could shoot all day long and get one hole groups at 25yds. Cast of Linotype, I used Lyman ( gold colored non-crimp) gas checks. I loaded W-W or R-P brass cases, kept in a 50rd Flambeau slip top yellow box. If I lost one, then there were only 49cases in that box. I Didn't replace it. Maintained the same lot of cases. Trimmed as necessary. To get a consistent roll crimp. Sized bullets .358, lubed with 50/50. Used a max load of Hercules 2400 (same lot), same lot of WSP Primers.

Consistency was the KEY to accuracy, could ring a gong, 175yds up the side of a hill, four out of five times. I averaged 200rds a week at 25yrds. Never had an action job done. I just changed out the springs for lighter ones. The constant shooting has made it as smooth as any old Colt or S&W.
I did change out the alloy gripframe for a steel Super BlackHawk Grip Frame and a PolyChoke ventilated Rib. Then had the grip frame, trigger and hammer Satin Nickeled. Also added a Black "Pearl" set of grips I built up from a kit. It is a Unique looking NM 6 1/2" Blackhawk.

Now It's more accurate then I can shoot it. Have never found a better more ACCURATE Bullet them the LYMAN # 358156GC over max 2400.

So it is an ACCURATE Bullet in a lot of other Revolvers too.