hot 357 loads from a rifle length barrel

[theangrydangler]

i just recently purchased a 20" rossi model 92 in 357 magnum and i'm wondering what kind of loads others have worked up in a rifle length barrel. whats the hottest load you've ever worked up at or near max pressure. saw a guy online the other day with this same gun running 22gr of h110 behind a 150gr horandy xtp getting velocities over 2400 fps!!!!

[NSB]

Hornady doesn't make a 150g XTP. They do make a 158g XTP. The Lyman reloading manual in the .357mag rifle loading data section shows a max load of 17.0g of H110, which is the same powder as the W296. Unless you don't like both eyes and ten fingers, don't even think about what you're suggesting. There's no shortage people around willing to challenge Darwin on survival of the fittest, and someone loses every. I'm shooting a .357MAX in a rifle and that load in the Lyman manual for a TC Encore is maxed out at 20.5g of H110. So, are you asking if it's safe to do what you read about someone else doing? The answer is NO.

[theangrydangler]

im not saying its a good idea because it definitely is not i was just using that as an example. i just want to know what other people on here have done in terms of terminal performance.

[725]

Get a reload manual and follow it. Be safe.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

As for hot-loading - I usually run into limitations of the cast bullets before reaching max charges. For instance, I powder coated a Lee 358-125-RF and pushed it with 20.3 grains of 300MP and got 2170 fps. 21.0 grains gave me bad leading but 2260 fps. Max for 300MP is 22.3 grains. I am dang satisfied with 2170 fps and a cast bullet, why hot-load that?

Come to think of it, I don't think I really even go up to max on any loads. My leverguns guzzle .357 mags like a frat-boy at a keg party, I couldn't keep up if I had to weigh every charge. By staying under max I'm comfortable just spot-checking a few charges.

[stubshaft]

I loaded the old 200 gr. NEI sillywett boolit ahead of a stiff charge of 296. The load was above what most loading manuals listed but below what most sillywett shooters were using. I do not know how fast it went, and don't really care, because it was absolute death and destruction on hogs. I cast it out of hardball alloy and could not tell you whether or not it expanded as I have never recovered a boolit.

[Texas by God]

158gr @1900fps from a 20" Rossi .357 with LilGun was hot enough for me.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[JSnover]

Jacketed bullets are discussed often enough, I shoot both.
In either case, I've never felt the need to exceed my load manuals. Cast or jacketed .357 out of a carbine at near published max is plenty.
When I decided I needed more I bought myself a 44.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Jacketed bullets are discussed often enough, I shoot both.
In either case, I've never felt the need to exceed my load manuals. Cast or jacketed .357 out of a carbine at near published max is plenty.
When I decided I needed more I bought myself a 44.
I'm sure many of us shoot both cast and jacketed, I do. And I know the jacketed bullets are discussed, but from what I have observed it is typically in comparison to cast. I.e. discussions of cast bullets approaching jacketed velocities, or cast bullets vs. jacketed expansion, and so forth. It just seemed like the OP only used jacketed as an example, and if the discussion is about just how fast a .357 can be revved up, it seems like jacketed bullets are going to be integral to the discussion. Therefore I thought I would suggest that he may be in the wrong forum for his intended purpose. But if he's wondering what a .357 can do with cast bullets then he's come to the right place. I guess my tone was a little gruf though.

[Handloader109]

I have same gun I bought last year. I've loaded and shot the xtps at 16 grains of h110 in 357 and it was hot enough for me..... I much prefer a 144gr cast powder coated over about 5 gr of bullseye in a 38spec. Nice easy load to just punch holes. My shoulder likes it too. I'd be very hesitant to go that high in a 357

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[ReloaderFred]

I'm sure many of us shoot both cast and jacketed, I do. And I know the jacketed bullets are discussed, but from what I have observed it is typically in comparison to cast. I.e. discussions of cast bullets approaching jacketed velocities, or cast bullets vs. jacketed expansion, and so forth. It just seemed like the OP only used jacketed as an example, and if the discussion is about just how fast a .357 can be revved up, it seems like jacketed bullets are going to be integral to the discussion. Therefore I thought I would suggest that he may be in the wrong forum for his intended purpose. But if he's wondering what a .357 can do with cast bullets then he's come to the right place. I guess my tone was a little gruf though.

There is no restriction on what type of bullets can be discussed. Just keep the discussions civil.

[liliysdad]

Whose specs?

[Winger Ed.]

I would encourage you to get the Lyman cast bullet handbook.
It lists loads for pistol cal. rifles.

Something else to consider when loading up beyond recommendations is what can happen if a few of those
wild screamers end up in a fairly light weight revolver.

Starting at a max. load and working up is common, so is using unconfirmed data.
After I blew up a Springfield M1A,,,,,,,, I quit doing it myself.

[dverna]

I would never use a load from an Internet forum, or buddy, that could not be confirmed with manufacturers data.

I believe Hodgdon lists rifle loads for the .357. I suspect maximum velocities will be obtained with slower powders...but they will cause more muzzle blast if you use them in pistols as well.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

There is no restriction on what type of bullets can be discussed. Just keep the discussions civil.

Oh OK then. Carry on.

I guess I'm picked up a mentality from frequenting traditional muzzleloading forums that tend to be strict about limiting content. It's mostly to prevent flame-wars. But I suppose, those problems don't really arise in cast vs. jacketed debates (probably because there is no such thing as a "cast bullet only" deer season).

[Silvercreek Farmer]

i just recently purchased a 20" rossi model 92 in 357 magnum and i'm wondering what kind of loads others have worked up in a rifle length barrel. whats the hottest load you've ever worked up at or near max pressure. saw a guy online the other day with this same gun running 22gr of h110 behind a 150gr horandy xtp getting velocities over 2400 fps!!!!

I'll bet that was a 125 gr bullet. Use a manual.

[lar45]

If Elmer Keith had only used a manual,we would not have the 44mag.

The Rossi 92 in 45 Colt was proof tested by White labs at 50kpsi. I have a Rossi 92 in 357 and had a similar thought, so I started with some 296, 2400(not at the same time) and some 180gn cast. I didn't get too far north of the book loads before I got pierced primers.
I think that wondering what if, and some mild experimentation is a good thing.
If we didn't have innovators and experimentors, there would not be a 500 Linebaugh sitting in my safe.

Just go slow, watch your primers and be safe.

[izzyjoe]

True, but Elmer Keith blew a few guns as well! I've never been a speed demon, slow and steady wins the race. I prefer 180gr. Bullets in 357mag rifle, in my limited testing they seem to work better on deer.

[northmn]

I have an old Lyman manual (covers torn off and don't see the edition) that has some loads we don't use today. However one does have to look at the firearm. Elmer Keith gave us the 44 magnum from what I read, but I really don't care as like stated, he ruined a few guns to do so.

I have a Rossi 357 and use a lot of cast in it. If I want a deer load I use the Federal American Eagle 158 grain soft point jacketed as they have a very high rating in Midway USA as a deer load. Some claim JHP tend to be too much of a good thing. Mainly don't reload deer loads as a box of 50 Federals will last a very long time. Also I am deer rifle poor and really have no need to carry a 357 when I have a very nice 35 Remington, which will safely get 2400 with a 158 grain bullet in a rifle of comparable handiness. The 357, to me, is a great rifle to carry off my tractor or Quad and I load it with moderate loads using a 125 grain cast boolit.

I once got someone upset as I was comparing the 357 to my 32-20 and that person quoted the Buffalo Bore load and said there was no comparison. From his point of view he was correct but from my point of view the 357 is a similar cartridge. Why beat the heck out of a nice rifle when it is so much fun to use the more moderate loads. I enjoy loads between factory 38 specials and 357s. A 125 grain being pushed at 14-1600 fps is a pleasure to shoot. Again, if I want power I will use a 30-30 lever. If I lived where straight case were all permitted for deer would get a 44 mag or use my 38-55. 357 will work on deer but far better cartridges exist. For home defense I would consider 125 or 158 grain JHPs.

DEP

[dverna]

I have an old Lyman manual (covers torn off and don't see the edition) that has some loads we don't use today. However one does have to look at the firearm. Elmer Keith gave us the 44 magnum from what I read, but I really don't care as like stated, he ruined a few guns to do so.

I have a Rossi 357 and use a lot of cast in it. If I want a deer load I use the Federal American Eagle 158 grain soft point jacketed as they have a very high rating in Midway USA as a deer load. Some claim JHP tend to be too much of a good thing. Mainly don't reload deer loads as a box of 50 Federals will last a very long time. Also I am deer rifle poor and really have no need to carry a 357 when I have a very nice 35 Remington, which will safely get 2400 with a 158 grain bullet in a rifle of comparable handiness. The 357, to me, is a great rifle to carry off my tractor or Quad and I load it with moderate loads using a 125 grain cast boolit.

I once got someone upset as I was comparing the 357 to my 32-20 and that person quoted the Buffalo Bore load and said there was no comparison. From his point of view he was correct but from my point of view the 357 is a similar cartridge. Why beat the heck out of a nice rifle when it is so much fun to use the more moderate loads. I enjoy loads between factory 38 specials and 357s. A 125 grain being pushed at 14-1600 fps is a pleasure to shoot. Again, if I want power I will use a 30-30 lever. If I lived where straight case were all permitted for deer would get a 44 mag or use my 38-55. 357 will work on deer but far better cartridges exist. For home defense I would consider 125 or 158 grain JHPs.

DEP

Good and intelligent post.

[yeahbub]

These days, the .357 has been backed off to 35kpsi. In a proven action like the Rossi '92, and in .357 with a lot of steel around the chamber, I tend to load to the levels before the ammo producers decided to dial back the pressures by 10kpsi or so. The Rossi handles it well, and with the shotgun butt, the recoil is not a problem. For a 158gr cast or jacketed, 15.5gr of 2400 is safe in mine. A 180gr RNFP GC boolit over 17gr of LilGun speaks with authority without flattened primers or expanding case heads, but again, this is in mine. YMMV. Mostly, my cow pie/dirt clod/hedge apple load is a WW Lee 125gr RNFP lubed with Carnauba Red (sometimes swaged to a HP when I'm ambitious) over 7gr of Universal. Shoots like a large .22 and whops the snot out of water filled 2-liters, etc. Great fun for new shooters or just plain entertainment.

I once acquired an unopened vintage box of Remington swaged soft lead 158gr RNSWC that shot like the crack of doom. Palm stinging recoil in a security six with the small grip. These dated back to the 1960's and are considerably more powerful than today's factory ammo. I hadn't used up the first 10 when I noticed the rifling was all but filled up. They leaded like crazy, so the rest are on a shelf somewhere, but it's obvious the .357 was loaded very stoutly back in the day.

[Norske]

The original 357M factory loads pushed a 158gr bullet to around 1500fps in a handgun. They also wore out N-frame S&W revolvers quickly. Even factories do too much of a good thing sometimes.

[Walks]

Norske,

I disagree completely on the old .357Mag Factory load wearing out N-frame's quickly.

My DAD had a Registered Pre-War .357Mag 8 3/4" that he regularly fired a load of the Thompson Gas Check 158gr bullet over a charge of 2400, way to hot to mention. I started shooting that gun in 1966 (12yrs old) and shot it with that load up to the time he died in 1988.

It was as tight the last time I fired it, as the first time. And I can't began to tell you how many loads My DAD and older brother's put through it before I got to shoot it for the first time. And I know my little brother shot it a lot while I was Overseas.

My own Model 27-5" has had at least 20,000 rounds of 15.5grs of 2400 before I backed off to 14.5grs. And my hot load wasn't as hot as My Dad's. I've had my M27(no dash) for 31+years.

[robg]

I load for accuracy 11.5g 2400 194 ggc boolit =1250fps /13.5 g 2400 164ggc book it =1550 fps /158 gfmj 14.9g 2400 haven't cronoed this load but all these loads will group around 2 inches at 100 yards from my win trapper .you don't drive at the red line if you want your car to keep going longterm.

[Walks]

I load for accuracy too. If the top load gives you the best accuracy, then I'll use it. I use that same load in a NM Blackhawk, have shot one hole groups with that combo. On the other hand I shoot 12.5 grs under the same bullet to get the best accuracy out of an 151-series Security-Six.

I still shoot that LYMAN #358156GC over 14.0grs of 2400, which these days is listed as a max load for the .357Mag. It shoots straight as you could hope for in a Marlin 1894CS.

In 2 Rifles I've owned to for over 40yrs they still shoot loads at completely different pressure levels. The .270WIN gives best accuracy at max , the .25-06 gives best accuracy a .257 Rob't levels.

It just goes to show you that every gun is a law unto itself.

[Goldstar225]

For a magnum load I use a max charge of 2400 under a 158 JSP. The load is from the lyman manual and gives me 1690 FPS from a marlin 1894. My play load is a an RCBS 38-150 SWC under 3.5 grains of W231/HP-38 for 900 FPS.

[35 Whelen]

For my Rossi I load 15.0 grs. of H110 under a RNFP HP bullet weighing from 162-170 grs., depending on which HP pin one chooses. Velocity with the heavier bullet is over 1700 fps. This is the bullet shown cast with the large pin and an example recovered from a hog on which I used it-

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/357%20Carbine%20bullet_zpso8w7xbdx.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Hunting/357%20Carbine%20bullet_zpso8w7xbdx.jpg.html)

It is definitely a warm load, but I shot it mostly chronographing and sighting in the rifle.

35W

[Blammer]

Lilgun is what I like for 180gr cast in my 357 mag Winchester.

[outdoorfan]

190 grainer at 1800+ fps out of a 16" Rossi 92. Lots of Lilgun.

[Hickory]

There was a guy where I worked who bought a chronograph and while testing powders not meant for a 30-30 he stated that he was getting near 308 Winchester velocities until the day he didn't show up for work and we heard he lost an eye and part of his face.
It's ok to experiment as long as you don't let it get crazy.

[northmn]

Older manuals list heavier charges of 2400 than now. Part of it is due to the quality of firearms as well as the new pressure testing. The old 38 special also suffers some from that condition. The cartridge has gotten chambered in some pretty cheaply made weapons. For a while I would on and off see Ruger Blackhawk loads published. 45 Colt was made in BP pistols but I have an old Lyman manual that lists some fairly warm loads by today's standard using a Colt peacemaker as a test pistol.

While I do not like hot rodding to any great extent there are fairly reliable references for well made firearms. I have a Ruger 45 Colt that's built on a lighter frame that is a joy to carry compared to the larger Blackhawks. I would not want to loosen it up nor really put up with "Blackhawk" loads in it. It handles the max Peacemaker loads in stride so I use them. Probably could use the older data as well but if you look at the gains they are not that much.

Looking at the gains for some of those very hot loads is a whole different issue. if the gain above the maximum listed load, in a rifle is maybe 100 fps or less it is not really worth it as down range the gain is even less. 1800 fps will really not perform better than 1750 but some think that the jump to the next digit is worth it. There is also a certain type, like the individual Hickory referred to that have an unwarranted opinion of their own intelligence and think they are smarter than the professionals.

DEP

[cwlongshot]

Im a big fan of the 357, in Mag and esp in MAX.

As a rule I do not like Lil-gun, its a hot burner and can be quite ornery. BUT The one place I do use it is in the 357Mag, under a 158 XTP FP bullet for use on deer in a 357 Carbine. this load has chronographed right at 2K.

Sierra used to make a 150SP bullet, I still have a couple boxes horded. it was a good one on deer too!

I think a good WFN of 160-170G would be awesome. Speer did us a BAD turn when they discontinued the awesome 170g Gold Dot/Deep Curl bullet (Jword) It had a WFN and expanded and preformed like the very best big game rifle bullets.

[Ramjet-SS]

For my Rossi I load 15.0 grs. of H110 under a RNFP HP bullet weighing from 162-170 grs., depending on which HP pin one chooses. Velocity with the heavier bullet is over 1700 fps. This is the bullet shown cast with the large pin and an example recovered from a hog on which I used it-

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/357%20Carbine%20bullet_zpso8w7xbdx.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Hunting/357%20Carbine%20bullet_zpso8w7xbdx.jpg.html)

It is definitely a warm load, but I shot it mostly chronographing and sighting in the rifle.

35W

Impressive !!!!

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

The one place I do use it is in the 357Mag, under a 158 XTP FP bullet for use on deer in a 357 Carbine. this load has chronographed right at 2K.

There's a lot of people talking right past each other on this thread. I think it comes from the term "hot load". Many people think that mean "exceeding manufacturer recommended limits." But other people just mean it as "impressively fast".

The .357 magnum with modern powders can throw bullets at an impressive clip out of a rifle-length tube without exceeding manufacturers' maximums. I've gotten 2,000 fps with Lil' Gun while staying below max. I'm getting 1900 fps with 300MP while staying below max.
H110, Lil' Gun, 300MP - they all can generate some impressive velocities in the .357.

[cwlongshot]

Amen!

Cw

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Lil'gun must be one of them miracle powders like Leverevolution. Makes good velocity at way lower pressure than 296/H110,according to Hodgdon's Annual Manual.

It has it's costs though. I've heard stories of eroding forcing cones.

[Three44s]

The OP seems to have bailed, too bad.

Three44s

[cwlongshot]

It has it's costs though. I've heard stories of eroding forcing cones.

I actually dont like or sue it much. Thinking for a min here, this is my single and only application.

Its ornery, burns very hot and DOSENT AT ALL like to be compressed. Pressure spike occure when compressed.

MP300 is a better option. Its almost there with its velocities and allot friendlier.

CW

[rockydoc]

[QUOTE=northmn;4614985]Older manuals list heavier charges of 2400 than now. Part of it is due to the quality of firearms as well as the new pressure testing.

2400 has changed too. It used to be Hercules 2400, now it is Alliant 2400. I don't know how much it has changed, but I would not use the data interchangeably. Start at lowest listed and work up as you should do with any new load.

[uscra112]

Lil-Gun has a bad reputation in revolvers because it has a "fat tail" to the pressure/time curve. This means that it more active chemically after the base of the bullet has passed the cylinder gap than, say, 2400. That fat tail is, however, how delivers more velocity for lower peak pressure in rifles. Remember that it developed for the .410 shotgun. Use in a revolver is "off-label" as the pharmacists say.

I'd suspect that old, hot factory .357 Ammo was just honoring the spirit of Elmer.