60 grain Aguila 22 RF

[shutinlead]

Has anyone tried the 60 grain Aguila 22 rf ammo at the longer distances? 200, 300, 400, 500? yds. I have a rifle coming together with hopes that it likes it, but schedules and weather haven't been very cooperative to finish and try it.
Greg

[Loudenboomer]

In my experience it is very effective ammo for close range shooting. It is somewhat unstable. Making devastating (for caliber) wound channels. Often times makes oval shaped holes in targets. at under 50 yds it is some of the hardest hitting .22 ammo available. Subsonic in my non suppressed grouse sniper rifle is just an added benefit.

[shutinlead]

I plan to send a few down range from a high wall I built - has a 1:16 twist. You're right, with that velocity it probably won't stabilize at all. I found a barrel in my mix that slugged .2228 and the twist is close to 1:9 so at the slower velocity it should stabilize fairly well. I was hoping someone had tried them in an AR conversion (like a CNMG insert) with the fast twist barrel and they'd share their findings. We had a slight break in the weather a couple weeks ago but time to play was real short, weather is warming but with that we're seeing gale force winds so that's not favorable for testing.

[3leggedturtle]

MGM told me they would make a 22LR with a 1:9 twist. I had found 10,000 of'em real cheap, but a friend wanted them real bad. So I let him get them, never had the barrel made. That was just before the obummer shortage started to hit supplies. Hope you post a range report of your results. Todd/3leg

[condorjohn]

They would probably work good in an AR with a .22 conversion unit and a 1:9 barrel. Anyone ever try that?

[Tripplebeards]

Holly **** on a cracker....I would think it would feel like a slap on the butt at 200 yards. Too heavy of a boolit and not enough powder. I wouldn't think it would not group worth a darn past a 100 yards.if it would even group descent at a 100 that's is. That round was made for close range thumping. I would check over at the rimfire central forum. I would tell you to buy a 223/5.56 if you want to shoot past a 150 yards yards with accuracy and consistently. I've blown up a few crow at a 150 yards with my 22 WMR vmax but it's 2200 fps Muzzel velocity so it still is cranking pretty good at longer range. A 22lr with a 60 grain boolit is going to almost bounce off one at that range.

[Traffer]

My first thought was 200 yards are you joking. If the slug even went that far you would have to aim about 50 foot over the target. It would be interesting to see someone try them with a fast twist barrel but even then too heavy with too little oomph.

[Tripplebeards]

Most 22lr rifles wont stabilize that load anyways. It's like throwing rocks at a barn past 40 yards. At 500 yards you'd have to aim at the sun to get it there.lol just trying to get the OP in a reality check. Buy a cheap 223 and some bulk ammo. Probably cheap per bullet anyways and he'll be able to shoot 500 yards half way accurately when the wind isn't blowing.

Most the guys over on rimfire central will tell you they can't shoot better than 2' groups with 60 grain 22 lr Aguila ammo at 30/40 yards. My guess is you wouldn't be ablet to hit minute of barn at a 100 yards...it's not you...it's the ammo. Just not designed for long range shooting. It's made more to shoot a trapped coyote or coon in the head at point blank range for quick dispatching.

[Traffer]

I plan to send a few down range from a high wall I built - has a 1:16 twist. You're right, with that velocity it probably won't stabilize at all. I found a barrel in my mix that slugged .2228 and the twist is close to 1:9 so at the slower velocity it should stabilize fairly well. I was hoping someone had tried them in an AR conversion (like a CNMG insert) with the fast twist barrel and they'd share their findings. We had a slight break in the weather a couple weeks ago but time to play was real short, weather is warming but with that we're seeing gale force winds so that's not favorable for testing.

Are you planning to squish the bullets to be fatter for that .228" barrel? If you don't, I in my opinion, you are in for a journey into lead mining country. If you are serious about shooting it...and with accuracy, you could make yourself a tool like Paco Kelleys accurizer ...I say LIKE because those tools only obturate the bullet to .225" You will need to make em .228, .229 or most likely .230" to get good accuracy. If you are set on working with it for accuracy I may be able to help. I reload 22lr with swaged bullets, so I can make them any size I want. I might be able to help you out with the tools to do some serious accuracy experimentation.

[RED BEAR]

Never tried it for long range but it works pretty good in snub nose.

[rbuck351]

I have tried them, They suck in a 16 twist. Might be ok in a 9 twist.

[Chill Wills]

Are you planning to squish the bullets to be fatter for that .228" barrel? If you don't, I in my opinion, you are in for a journey into lead mining country. If you are serious about shooting it...and with accuracy, you could make yourself a tool like Paco Kelleys accurizer ...I say LIKE because those tools only obturate the bullet to .225" You will need to make em .228, .229 or most likely .230" to get good accuracy. If you are set on working with it for accuracy I may be able to help. I reload 22lr with swaged bullets, so I can make them any size I want. I might be able to help you out with the tools to do some serious accuracy experimentation.

I think you need to go back and re-read the size of the barrel.
And yes - they will go 200yds.

Accuracy in a 9 T barrel is the question here. Have you tried it? Or just guessing?

[Chill Wills]

Most 22lr rifles wont stabilize that load anyways. It's like throwing rocks at a barn past 40 yards. At 500 yards you'd have to aim at the sun to get it there.lol just trying to get the OP in a reality check. Buy a cheap 223 and some bulk ammo. Probably cheap per bullet anyways and he'll be able to shoot 500 yards half way accurately when the wind isn't blowing.

Most the guys over on rimfire central will tell you they can't shoot better than 2' groups with 60 grain 22 lr Aguila ammo at 30/40 yards. My guess is you wouldn't be ablet to hit minute of barn at a 100 yards...it's not you...it's the ammo. Just not designed for long range shooting. It's made more to shoot a trapped coyote or coon in the head at point blank range for quick dispatching.

Throwing rocks with a 16 twist. How about a 9 twist? Any experience? I have not done it so I am not poo-pooing it until I have some real experience.

[shutinlead]

Thanks Chill! I did state this correct guys, NOT .228 but .2228 - that's not quite .223- and the barrel is choked- going from around .2232 with an exit or the last 4" at about .2227 or .2228. I'm not just measuring a slug but I'm also air gaging it- makes it easy to read it in tenths of a thousandths.
There's a few of us shooting these little guns out to 500 yards with accuracy that will blow your hair back and we're not just plinking, were shooting NRA mid-range targets. I'm not that great of a shot any longer more because of age and my stubbornness not to relinquish iron sights - I make tang sights for a hobby- 237781 but I'm beginning to make copies of vintage scopes and they may bring me back into the ball game. (Chill -I shot the same class (position) only with irons as you at the Cheyenne match in October)

We did shoot a few of these through my Ballard (that's what I put this 1:9 twist barrel on) just as it was getting dark, and temp was close to 0 degrees F. 237782 As I mentioned time and weather needs to cooperate a little better. I strapped a Leopold fixed 8 haphazardly to the old chump, I didn't even have a piece of wood on it so it was bagged fore and aft, at 100 yds it showed promise -1 MOA with 5 shots.

Traffer, I recently cut a mold to cast a .225" -65 grain that's based on a Nasa design- bore riding so I don't have to lengthen the throat, and I have several ELEY primed brass so I don't have to mess with the rest of the **** with reloading 22's, but I'm still trying to avoid going down that road... reloading for 22's. I have several other rifles I compete with that require my reloading attention, not wanting this added to the mix. Thanks for the offer though.
I'm hoping the 60's help me just a little more, the 400 and 500 yard with 40's dished me fits this last year AND if I can buy them off the shelf!?
Maybe have some more to report after this storm blows through and spring arrives...[smilie=b:

[shutinlead]

They would probably work good in an AR with a .22 conversion unit and a 1:9 barrel. Anyone ever try that?

My son has a CNMG conversion for his Rock River AR and when time and weather permit I'll have him try a group at longer distances... so it's on our agenda.

[Buckshot]

..............I bought a brick of the Aguila SSS Super sniper maybe 8-10 years ago? Wasn't very accurate simply because the twists in my 22 RF's are all for 40 gr slugs, but .............. so was an old Savage (Springfield marked) bolt action marked on the bbl same as the others, S, L, LR, but danged if it didn't shoot those 60 gr slugs fairly well. Not as well as the 40 grain bullets, but for some reason a HECKUVA lot better then the others. Checked the twist and it was the same as all the others 12" IIRC.

Simply a 22RF version of the 300 Whisper.

...........Buckshot

[shutinlead]

Chill Wills, let me clarify also, in Cheyenne we were shooting BPCR then - not 22's.

A few years back when the 22 rf shortage was happening... Aguila was one of the first ammo brands (match) we found re-stocking the shelves so of course we loaded up on it. I didn't have anything that really liked it but it still worked for practice and it helped my diminishing stores of Lapua and RWS. I haven't purchased any since until I discovered this 60 grain stuff. So thanks for the reporting so far.
Greg

[Chill Wills]

Hey Greg, Right off the bat, when you stepped up to shoot the mid-range 3-position match last October, I knew you were a good man!

I have had good luck with the case of Aguila 22-Match I got a few years ago during the 22 shortage. One of the marks of good 22 match ammo is will it shoot accurately in your rifle to the 200 meter rams at our 22BPCR matches. Well, the case I have does in the short test I made in both my Ballard and CPA rifles. However, I normally shoot Eley Match at the the long lines and just use the Aguila Match for the 50m and 100m targets, because of not wanting to press my luck, but I do need to take the time to do more testing and really check to see if 100 rounds of Aguila Match out of 100 rounds are really match grade. IMO - That is where the second best ammo falls short of BEST 22 ammo. Meaning you get a small percent flyers.

All that was to say, that the 60 grain stuff may be good, however, as you know, it is not likely made to the best match grade.
I will be interested in hearing how your fast twist project goes.

[Don McDowell]

Now I think you're going to make me spend a bit of money on my next mail order... This lo wall I had made with a 14 twist might just like that heavy bullet. It doesn't like the regular Aquila match as well as a couple of my other rifles, but it wasn't totally resentful of it either.. Funny how picky these 22's can be, Carol's lo wall sprays both Lapua ammo like 00 buck out of a 410....

[Traffer]

I hope this doesn't offend any of you guys. I have become kind of a armchair shooter because of my health. I haven't shot a gun in almost 2 years. I just sit at home with my little lathe next to my desk and make stuff now. I enjoy a very few guys on youtube. This guy Mark is quite the shooter. I love to watch his videos. I would love to watch some of you guys shoot. Maybe you can talk someone into videoing you so you can put it on youtube for us people who can't get out so much.

https://youtu.be/Fg808TYc2Ao

[shutinlead]

Guys,
I had to use a stock off another Ballard I had and go give this thing a whirl... The calm before the storm... temps hit 45 and the wind died off an hour before dark:smile: With the small amount of wind, we chose to shoot at the 200 yard bench. From the Ballard that I put the 1:9 twist barrel on, the results were pleasing.
We set up the LabRadar prior to shooting and collected quite a bit of data - still processing it but some of the results were surprising. In 47 shots recorded, the SD was 19 fps. and the extreme spread was 98 fps and causing this was two rounds one ~40 fps faster and one ~30 fps slower... These shots were evident in the grouping. This ammo did shoot dirty compared to other match ammo I prefer and after about 10 rounds it was noted that the velocity did trend slower. So cleaning after every ten was the method I used. Had a little problem with my makeshift scope and getting the bullet impact to match scope's point - I ran out of travel and had to shim and shim and shim... when I was finally able to get things hitting where I aimed without compensating holding off and over, first good group of 5 was about 3", best group was just under 2". There is still some more time to spend on this experiment. Next batch out I'm going to weigh, measure and group accordingly maybe minimize the flyers.
Don, I'm thinking I opened a can of worms here and you should give these a try :p It goes against the grain for a lot of us and our ways of thinking, but cleaning frequently may make a difference with this ammo.

We did try this in an AR with a CNMG rimfire adapter, in ten shots the spread both on paper and on Radar was extreme so barrel diameter may matter...

[shutinlead]

I attached a couple pictures, one looking down range and one of the better targets, The holes appear to be sideways tears but they're not, there's 5 shots in the center area, the lower hole is from another group not quite so pretty. The target is stapled to plywood that is fairly shot out and the paper isn't well supported.
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My target frames are made from 8" poly pipe and we noted a couple of items, in chasing the point of impact around I hit the poly across the top. Somebody mentioned earlier that there wouldn't be much energy left? The 60 grain slug still penetrated the poly 1/4 to 3/8" - wall thickness is 3/4". At 200 yards, it's still enough energy to roll a prairie poodle...

[Don McDowell]

Greg I wonder if those two out liars in the velocity string could of been sorted out by weighing the rounds ahead of time?
My CPA needs to have the barrel wiped out with a dry patch after every 25-30 rounds to maintain it's best accuracy.

[Chill Wills]

I have never shot any of the heavy weight 22rf's. My rifles are all 16 twist. I often thought it would be interesting to have faster twist rifles like 12 twist and 50 grain match bullets/ammo. At may be that it is too great a nitch market for ammo producers. However, I am glad you are sharing your experience with us.
Is the 60 grain bullet design adapted well to match chambers? In other words, if a seated bullet is unchambered to look at, does it look right? OR, in your opinion, would these heavy weight rounds benefit from something other than a standard match chamber?

OT- we are on the front edge of this forecast blizzard- really powering up here, and I think you and Don are going to get hit with this too. Be safe.
-CW

[Chill Wills]

[QUOTE=Traffer;4599025] I would love to watch some of you guys shoot. Maybe you can talk someone into videoing you so you can put it on youtube for us people who can't get out so much. /QUOTE]

Hello Traffer, sorry to hear about your current health. I wish you better times in the future!
I don't have video ability, I am a 'flip-phone' low tech kinda guy. I spend all my money on powder and lead. :kidding:
I used to tell people I was born with one foot in the last century. Now - being 2019, I have one foot in the last century and the other foot in the century before that!

Video is a good idea though. Plenty of people can make videos these days and we should do more of that and post them, not to boost egos, rather for nothing more than to show and share the game of 22BPCR or what ever else we do shooting related. We live in the age of easy video communication, we need to take advantage of it.

[shutinlead]

The 60 grain is an odd looking one, the case appears to be a short and after that "it's all boolit". I've tried several things, and I have quite a collection of reamers. Manson's match has been my favorite lately but it goes hand in hand with the gages I make that go with the ammo I shoot. I don't cut the chamber depending on the rim or a standard go-gage, I fit it to the cartridge length. Now if you try and shoot a hyper velocity or stinger in my chamber you may not like the results - so I don't do these for anyone else... and I don't share well. That said, these are made so the ogive is almost the same as say a Norma or Lapua match so it fits most of my chambers.237849
I'm asked many times by some of my cohorts why I waste my time with this little stuff --- because I can:smile: I'm sure it's another passing fad.

Traffer, I too am sorry to hear of your condition. I welcome your comments anytime, as far as the video, I'm a little ahead of Chill with the technology but I'm not going to admit by how much. My adult children are far more savvy with this stuff than I and we've talked about doing a few videos of this shooting to go with some of the classes I teach, so I'll keep you posted. I try to post stuff I find interesting and different, there are many out there that don't believe some of the things going on here and call **, I did until I tried it. The nay-sayers or the folks that get all puffed up here, I just ignore and go on with my posts... Thanks for the interest.
Greg

[shutinlead]

Here's a little more data processed, for those not familiar with labRadar, it will track boolits using doppler radar. It's not perfect but with a little tweaking, it's out performs any other method I've dabbled with before. I was shooting to 200 yards and as is most generally the case I lost signal of the projectile at 100 to 150 yards, and most after 100 yards the signal wasn't very good. Using JBM calculator and velocity values, the average BC for this bullet in this situation, was .128. Comparing that to history of other 22 LR I have recorded it's only better by a very small margin.237857
As I mentioned earlier, I will weigh, measure and group and go try this again when time and weather permit.

[shutinlead]

Weather is warming up but the mud's deep enough the outdoor range is almost impossible. Took this fast twist Ballard to the indoor range yesterday and spent some time experimenting with it. I couldn't find a 40 grain bullet that it liked, couple different Lapua, Wolf, and RWS nothing shot real consistent. It is surprising - it seemed to do best at the 50' range with the Aguila 60 grain. It was all offhand because I didn't feel like dragging in the rest and the throne, maybe next time and we'll see what it really can do.238235238236

[shooterg]

I have shot the stuff in an AR conversion . Used an old pencil 1:12 barrel and a used Colt conversion(looks like Ciener to me).Float tube, 2 stage trigger, added weight to duplicate the service rifle.
Wanted something to practice awfulhand with, use the Ray-Vin reduced 25 yard target. The gun holds minute of nickel with most .22 .
, 60gr. closer to dime size, but won't cycle the action - not a problem when practicing offhand. Not like I can hold that well standing anyway !
Have pinged steel plates at longer distance but no accuracy shooting past 25.

[Chill Wills]

Weather is warming up but the mud's deep enough the outdoor range is almost impossible. Took this fast twist Ballard to the indoor range yesterday and spent some time experimenting with it. I couldn't find a 40 grain bullet that it liked, couple different Lapua, Wolf, and RWS nothing shot real consistent. It is surprising - it seemed to do best at the 50' range with the Aguila 60 grain. It was all offhand because I didn't feel like dragging in the rest and the throne, maybe next time and we'll see what it really can do.238235238236

Greg, I can rust blue that scope base for you :razz:

[shutinlead]

I don't think I want to dress it up any more, you know they say that if you dress up a pig, it's still just a pig...;) I eventually will get the new wood on it, and probably go back to irons once I determine if it will do what I want it to at 400 and 500. The barrel is a test project of mine in more ways than one, it has a sleeve made from a 12 gage damascus barrel. To go with this I've made the sights from damascus so without the dress it is a pig.[smilie=f:
238331238332238333

[izzyjoe]

I actually built a Remington 513 single shot, with a 14" twist green mountain barrel to shoot those 60 gr 22lr's, but about the time I finish the rifle, the panic buy started, and I honestly never got back on it. I do have 2 boxes of them, are they still available?

[Alan in GA]

Years ago.... I took a half dozen 22 rifles to a friend’s range and enjoyed unhurried bench testing them with the SSS ammo. Most rifles had 1:16 twist. Each rifle was shot at 50 yards off benchrest.
An aspect that seemed to make itself evident was that the crown of the muzzle made a difference in wether or not a ‘barely’ stabilized bullet (because of the 1:16 twist) made as to accuracy. A few barrels had been given carefully dialed in crowns cut on my lathe, others not. The lathe cut crowns gave the best accuracy, quite understandably. Not to deter anyone from getting a faster (9”?) twist bore, just makes a good test of what a carefully cut crown dialed in to under 0.001” Center can make. It would probably make much less effect on a 9” twist barrel.

[shutinlead]

I actually built a Remington 513 single shot, with a 14" twist green mountain barrel to shoot those 60 gr 22lr's, but about the time I finish the rifle, the panic buy started, and I honestly never got back on it. I do have 2 boxes of them, are they still available?

They are still available and I'm going to order a few more bricks as they are working quite well in this rifle. The wind is suppose to lay down this afternoon and some of the mud has dried up so I'm hoping to get to the 500 yard range late today... shop around - there are a couple places that sell them at .10 1/2 cents a round - if you use their coupon code, they still have free shipping for orders over $49.
I have yet another rifle I'm building with a tensioned barrel with a 1:16 and then another in a 1:14 twist, I may post results on this when it's done.
Greg

[izzyjoe]

Keep up the good work! Thanks for the heads up, I'll look some up!

[shutinlead]

Made it just a little before dark the other evening, still muddy, and contrary to what the weather guy guessed, the wind never laid down... I was self spotting using the cell phone attached to the spotting scope so it was a little challenge to say the least. First distance attempted was 300 yards, it did take about 8 shots to get on the gong, (42" diameter) but once I was able to locate misses in the video the group stayed about 10 inches... The Kestrel said the wind speed was averaging about 8 mph coming in quartering from my left backside (about 8:30) so it correlates with my hits when the wind died and chronic misses at the 2:00 position when the wind picked up . Moved to 400 yards, wind remained consistent and correction for the 100 yard change was around 24 minutes. Darkness won out so I never had a chance to shoot at 500 yards.
The Ballard got some new hardware before I did this series of shots, made a set of scope mounts and mounted a 30" Navy Arms 4x -15 mm brass tube scope so I'm refining this project's appearance...:-P still using a stock off a different Ballard as the new wood isn't finished yet.
The pictures attached are of the new hardware and of the gong through the scope- one can see the hits on the lower half of the target if you look close.
239088
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[truckjohn]

While I hear many folks say "Well, I have such and such twist so it won't stabilize...."

The thing is - often things don't go like you would think they would simply by the specs on the paperwork.

For example - my Marlin Model 60 and 39a both stabilize them as far as I can tell - bullets fly straight and make round holes in the targets. My CZ does not - you can see the bullets fan out into Curley-Q's and the ones that hit the target go in sideways.

I am planning to test them out in my old Winchester 67a and 69 as well as my Springfield Savage 84c to see how they do.... They might work OK - they may hit sideways.

I am batting over 50% - but that may change... I just can't say...

[Life Member]

Your right about the damage they do. Devastating on ground hogs