Lee C309-150-RF in Winchester 94?

[FergusonTO35]

Hey folks. Got me a 1978 Winchester 94 .30-30 and I already have a bunch of Lee C309-150-RF's cast, sized to .310 with Tac-X lube. I'm looking for around 1800 fps with decent accuracy out to 100 yards. Conventional wisdom suggests that Winchesters do better with the 170's, but I would like to see what the 150's will do before I buy another mold. All my .30-30 rifles have tight throats. I seat them to 2.420 and use the FCD to crimp on the ogive, which works well.

Powders I have include Unique, Reloder 7, IMR 4895, 4064, the late great SR4759, and Hodgdon 4198. Any suggestions here? If I could do 3" at 100 yards I would be a very happy guy.

[izzyjoe]

4895 would be my pick! You should be able to achieve you goals!

[popper]

I tried Rx7 with a 145 PB but pushed it too hard (18gr). With a GC it should really work good. 4895 is good for max loads, works OK for downloading but needs more powder for fps.

[Larry Gibson]

Rx7 is going to work well with that bullet in the 1800 fps range though it will do quite well above that velocity also. Rx7 is a bit faster than H4895 and burns more efficiently at lower/medium range velocities with bullets lighter than 170 gr. However if you push it above 1800 fps then H4895 can come into it's own.

With the Rx7 start at 17 gr with a 1/2 gr Dacron filler (18.5 gr w/o) and work up to 20 gr. Happiness will be found along the way......

[Texas by God]

My choice is IMR 3031 but of the listed powders H4198 would be it for me.

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[rking22]

Another vote for RL 7 , I used it with 311466 in my contender 3030. Liked it so well it has becom the powder I always start with in the range you describe. I do not have that info but it was in the 18 to20 gr range. Fits nicely between 2400 and 4895 in cast applications.

[ShooterAZ]

RL-7 is great in the 30-30, but LVR is even better IMHO. I use that same boolit in a 16" Carbine with LVR and have had excellent results. I you can find some LVR, give it a try sometime.

[FergusonTO35]

Wow, thanks for all the replies. I see that 4198 and Reloder 7 are nearly the same in terms of burn rate, 4198 is alot easier to find around here however. Anybody compared the two with the same loads?

[northmn]

I have used the Lee 150 grain bullet in more than one rifle and can say that in a 30-30 there is no real trick to getting about anything in the way of faster burning powders like 4198 or Re7 to work. 5744 is another good cast powder. I even drove a heavier bullet at a fair speed with good results with the Re7. 30-30 is one of the easiest calibers to load boolits for.

A 94 is not a bench rest rifle but is a lot of fun with cast.

DEP

[Edward]

Lee molds are cheap ,get the 170 and see the difference . GC is required for either so $25.00 (cheaper used) will let you know ,I like the 170 myself for hunting /target /Ed

[Bird]

4895 either H or IMR, IMR 4064 , W748 all shoot good. Can't see much difference in group size between them.
Load them between 1750 to 2050 fps.

[FergusonTO35]

Sounds great. I am planning to get a 170 grain mold at some point, just not now. Already have a few hundred 150's ready to be loaded.

[popper]

Use LeverE with ftx and full speed loads, don't get decent fps with downloading.

[sghart3578]

I wish I could help but in my 30-30 I don't experiment much.

I also use the Lee 150 gr mold. I beagle it then gas check it and size it to .311" for my Marlin. I use Randy's TAC-X and TAC-1 also.

Somewhere on this forum I saw a suggestion for 150 gr bullets and 25 gr of 3031. The first group I shot with it at 75 yards was unbelievable. With Skinner peep sights I can pretty much call my shots out to a little over 100 yards.

If you knew me you would know that I am not the world's greatest shot so I am verry happy with this combo.

I have stuck with that load ever since.

I do use Unique in 30-30 with the Lee 113 gr bullet. Lot's of fun.

Good luck.

[FergusonTO35]

I like the sound of that 25 grains 3031! What charge of Unique do you use with the Lee 113? I have never been able to get very good accuracy out of that boolit and powder, although it could just be user error.

I had to order some stuff online today, and so went ahead and threw in the Lee C309-170-RF. I've been planning to get it forever, so might as well while I'm thinking about it. It will probably be awhile before I can pour some with it though, and I already have a bunch of 150's ready.

[sghart3578]

I'll check my records but I think it was 5.5 gr of Unique. I did not gas check them.

I tried the Lee 170 gr mold also but I have never had any luck with it. The nose diameter is too small from my mold. I ended up selling it.


Steve in N CA

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks. Interesting, my Lee 150 casts a really fat nose. So much so, that I seat deeper than the crimp groove to 2.420.

[Texas by God]

I consider the Lee 309FP trio to be excellent boolits. I use the 113, the 150, and the 170 with great results.

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[FergusonTO35]

When the 170 arrives I'll have all three. I imagine the 170 would be a dandy for .308 also, I have a Browning BLR that needs some exercise!

[stubshaft]

That boolit was the first one I ever cast (back in the late 60's) for my model 64, 30/30. I loaded over 3031 powder and still do.

[FergusonTO35]

Tonight I loaded up a box of cartridges with H4198 charges from 17-18.5 grains. Hopefully I can try em out soon. Will pick up some 3031 at the fun store.

[FergusonTO35]

Tried out 17 and 17.5 grains at 50 yards. Both loads were easily minute of deer or coyote. 17 grains produced a somewhat tighter group, however I doubt that really means anything. Hopefully I can try some more tomorrow.

[Bird]

Try upping the charge weight more in increments up to 20grains of h4198. 20grn of either imr or h4198 seems to be a favorite load.

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks, I am planning to do so. Also my 170 grain mold showed up today so hopefully I can try some of those out too.

[Texas by God]

My Mauser likes the 25gr 3031 load with either boolit. This is the 170 Lee(180 gr my alloy).https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/f29584050cea0a76318f8749a416ebfa.jpg

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[FergusonTO35]

Excellent! What kind of twist does your rifle have?

[Texas by God]

Excellent! What kind of twist does your rifle have?1-10" .308" groove. I size .309" for it. I just got a .311" sizer to try next time for my 30-30 MG Marlin. I haven't been pleased with .309" in it. Both it and the Mauser are amazing with j-words but cast is so much more fun!

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[FergusonTO35]

I've been upping the charge by 3/10 of a grain at a time. Accuracy gets better as I increase the charge. The last charge I fired was 18.8 grains, and it produced the tightest group so far. 2 inches at 65 yards off shooting sticks, which is about as good as I can do with anything. Texas by God is right, cast is much funner!!

[FergusonTO35]

Shot the 94 some more today. Tried out 19.0 and 19.4 grains H4198 and an old standby, 27 grains IMR 4895. The latter is still the champ, at least as far as getting nice repeatable groups. Admittedly, my shooting abilities are not good but I can usually keep it minute of deer. Tonight I went ahead and poured a pile of the 170 grain Lee boolits. So, any favorite loads for this one with Reloder 7, H4198, or IMR 4895?

[hylander]

Shot the 94 some more today. Tried out 19.0 and 19.4 grains H4198 and an old standby, 27 grains IMR 4895. The latter is still the champ, at least as far as getting nice repeatable groups. Admittedly, my shooting abilities are not good but I can usually keep it minute of deer. Tonight I went ahead and poured a pile of the 170 grain Lee boolits. So, any favorite loads for this one with Reloder 7, H4198, or IMR 4895?

150 LEE and 173 Lyman, both gas checked.
19gr. of H-4198 gives me 1" groups at 50yds. open sights Winchester 94 26" Octagon barrel

[popper]

This week I shot 145gr PB from the marlin with 17.5 gr Rx7, did fine. The 170gr PB didn't do quite as well but still minute of BIG deer. 185gr GC with 18gr did good last time out, soft alloy though. 50 yds as I'm not yet up to a couple 100yd marches.

[FergusonTO35]

Sounds good. I'll roll up some with 19-20 grains and see how well they do. Another thing I wonder, is a hard lube really necessary for this cartridge? My lube sizer is filled up with RCBS 80008 lube. This is a soft lube for pistol cartridges. I could pan lube with Tac-X, or paint them with LLA, but I wonder if the RCBS lube would work for the .30 WCF up to 2000 fps.

[Bird]

Shot the 94 some more today. Tried out 19.0 and 19.4 grains H4198 and an old standby, 27 grains IMR 4895. The latter is still the champ, at least as far as getting nice repeatable groups. Admittedly, my shooting abilities are not good but I can usually keep it minute of deer. Tonight I went ahead and poured a pile of the 170 grain Lee boolits. So, any favorite loads for this one with Reloder 7, H4198, or IMR 4895?

IMR 4895 try 28grns. You can work your way up to 30, but 28 to 28.5 should give a good result. Weigh your bullets to see if they are truly 170 grns ready to load. If they are heavier, stay around 28 grns powder.

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks. 27 grains has always worked great with the 150's. Wonder how well 4064 would do? It works awesome with jacketed and is always available.

[hylander]

i hate hard lubes for anything, I use a medium soft lube for everything.
No leading.

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks, me too. I lubed some of them with the RCBS lube and some with LLA. We will see how they do.

[Texas by God]

I don't recall the charge weight but this group at 40 yds is with IMR 4895 and the C309150F sized .309".https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190325/6bfaa80bd6fef7f1618b1d90cf1dd3cb.jpg

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[FergusonTO35]

Very nice! That was with your Glenfield 30, right? I get similar results with 27 grains IMR 4895 under that boolit. I'm a cheapskate, so if I can get the same performance with a smaller charge of another powder I'm going to do it!

[WinchesterM1]

I killed the biggest buck of my life with a lee 150fn over reloaded 7 it was a tight fit on my Winchester 94AE but it dropped him from about 75 yards straight behind me

[gnostic]

I shot 2 coffee cans full of loaded rounds, 10.5 grains of Unique and the Lee 170 grain GC bullet out of my model 94. The barrels is still amazingly clean, I size .309 and lube with Lyman Super Moly. From a rest, I was hitting a 10" steel plate at 100 yards almost every time.

[Texas by God]

Very nice! That was with your Glenfield 30, right? I get similar results with 27 grains IMR 4895 under that boolit. I'm a cheapskate, so if I can get the same performance with a smaller charge of another powder I'm going to do it!It's a 36G with K4 post and the load is 26grs IMR 4895. That boolit just shoots and the one deer I killed with it was a bang flop.

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[FergusonTO35]

Sounds like a winner. What is the farthest you've ever tried that load?

[Texas by God]

On targets- 100 yards with my Mauser it'll group three shots in about an inch if I'm not wobbly.

[FergusonTO35]

Wow, very nice! Anybody know what screw size is used on the scope mount holes of a Winchester 94 angle eject? I have a Williams FP-94SE receiver sight which uses the two rear scope mount holes on either side of the bolt and lost the screws for it.

[hylander]

Wow, very nice! Anybody know what screw size is used on the scope mount holes of a Winchester 94 angle eject? I have a Williams FP-94SE receiver sight which uses the two rear scope mount holes on either side of the bolt and lost the screws for it.

Those should be 6-48

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks!

[FergusonTO35]

Last night I loaded up some of my 170 grain Lee slugs with 15.5 and 16.0 grains of IMR SR4759. I have two cans of it so I figured I should get some use out of it. To my delight, these slugs chamber just fine when loaded to 2.564, with the case mouth on the the crimp groove. My 150 grain Lee boolits always had to be seated to 2.420 or the ogive would catch the rifling. Maybe that mold drops them fat, or I squashed the meplat when I sized them. Hopefully I can try out the 170's when I get home from work.

[FergusonTO35]

Ok, I was able to try out the 170's in my new to me pawn shop rescue 94. Both loads shot nice round groups at 35 yards, however they were about 4" low! The original front sight is really tall, about .600, so I installed a shorter one tonight. Reloaded my shells with 16.4, 16.7, and 17.0 grains of 4759, may get to try them out on Friday. While I was loading tonight, I compared the ogive of my 150 and 170 grain slugs. The 170's are pretty consistently .300-.301. The 150's are fatter, around .305-.307. I cast the 150's a long time ago, I think what happened is I got impatient and forced the boolits down into the lube sizer, swelling the ogive. Lesson learned!

[FergusonTO35]

Installed a .450 front sight and had the opposite problem, shooting way too high. With the rear adjusted all the down, I got it to shooting 1" high. 17 grains IMR 4759 seems to be the most accurate load so far. Tonight I installed a .500 front sight which should be the sweet spot between the .575 original and the .450. I also reloaded my shells with Federal primers to see if that helps the light strikes.

[sghart3578]

Ok, I was able to try out the 170's in my new to me pawn shop rescue 94. Both loads shot nice round groups at 35 yards, however they were about 4" low! The original front sight is really tall, about .600, so I installed a shorter one tonight. Reloaded my shells with 16.4, 16.7, and 17.0 grains of 4759, may get to try them out on Friday. While I was loading tonight, I compared the ogive of my 150 and 170 grain slugs. The 170's are pretty consistently .300-.301. The 150's are fatter, around .305-.307. I cast the 150's a long time ago, I think what happened is I got impatient and forced the boolits down into the lube sizer, swelling the ogive. Lesson learned!


Every one of the Lee 170 gr molds that I tried drops a bullet that is much too small on the body. I have even sent one mold back to be checked by Lee. They cast with it and sent it back, saying that is was in spec.

My Lee 150 gr mold is much more accurate.

You sound like you are having a lot of fun! Keep it up!


Steve in N CA

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks bro. I guess I have been lucky in the sense that all mine are right on the money or even a little large. I use range scrap lead, which seems to fill out well.

[FergusonTO35]

Poured a bunch of 150 grain slugs last night. I'll measure the nose diameter and compare to my 170 grainers. The 170's average around .301 and always chamber easily even with alot of fouling. I'm thinking the last batch got squashed in the lube sizer, resulting in a fat nose. We shall see, hopefully its just user error!

[Sig556r]

+1 for RL7 for me, clean burning & accurate.
However, most old-timers (no offense meant) swear by 10g of Bullseye as go-to starting load for anything 30cal...works for my Ted Williams 100 too.
YMMV

[northmn]

A bullet I liked for deer hunting was the Lee 303 mold that throws at over 311. I sized it down using a flat nose punch and got bullets that weighed about 188 grains with my alloy and gas checks. The flat nose gave it enough shorter length so that it would cycle crimped on the groove. Got one deer at 140 paces from my tree with this bullet and it dropped pretty quickly. With the right alloy you can drive any of the 30-30 bullets at factory equivalent velocities. I just prefer heavier bullets for cast hunting.

Winchester lever actions have had problems with open sights and load variations.

DEP

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I too have found Reloder 7 works well in many calibers with cast, 30-30, 300 Savage, 308 Win, 303 Savage and 32 Special. I have used the Lee 150 FN at .310 in the 30-30 and 303 Savage with excellent results using Reloder 7 in the 18-20 grain range.

[FergusonTO35]

Sounds good. I figgered RL7 would be the top choice since 4759 bit the dust.

[popper]

Shot some more of the 145gr PB with Rx7, going back to unique - round holes at 50 but shotgun groups. darn.

[hylander]

Just thought I would throw this in your mix.
I shot my 94 Centennial with the Williams FP-94/36TK receiver sight the other day.
It along with my Marlins really prefer the 173gr. Lyman G/C sized .311
This is my go to load for Cast Matches
.345 @ 50yds.

[FergusonTO35]

Wow, very nice! What powder and how much?

[Bazoo]

Wow, very nice! What powder and how much?
The target has the powder charge written on it.

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks, will give it a try!

[FergusonTO35]

Cast a bunch of 150 grain Lee slugs, and unfortunately the nose on them is fatter than the 170. The 170's are around .300-.302, the 150's are .303-.305. Haven't loaded any yet so I don't know if this is going to be a problem, however I suspect it will. Is this typical of the 150?

[Texas by God]

Not my best work shooting. It's a cold day in Texas so maybe I shivered[emoji16]. These are .309"- I've yet to cast & size both boolits to .311" to try in the Marlin. I've had no problems with the nose on either weight. 40yds 1/2" targdot. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190512/cffde2af4d221d98e9a988ba71506553.jpg

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[FergusonTO35]

Very nice! My rifles do about the same with 17 grains IMR SR4759.