460 S&W w Lee 300gr GC bullet, load? Best lube?

[JeffinTD]

So I used to cast a bit, years ago.

Recently picked up a 460 S&W, am going to replace my worn out Lyman 450 with a new one, and I’ve ordered some new molds to boot.

Anybody done accuracy work up for the 460 and this bullet?

Playing with 296 and H4227 at the moment. Never messed with Lil Gun but it might work well?

[DougGuy]

If you are going to use a moderate load, use LilGun, do NOT download 296/H110 below published starting weights. There have been long running discussions about LilGun burning out the throats in some of the Freedom Arms handcannons, and it does burn very hot, but loaded in the midrange or upper 75% of the powerband, LilGun works very well and won't be loaded to the point of damaging your revolver. 4227 is temperature sensitive from what I know of it, not being a user myself. If you were shooting silhouettes, you may get a totally different point of impact after the gun heats up than when it was cold.

[bosterr]

I'm watching this because a friend has both a S&W 460 and a 500 and he said they don't shoot lead at all because of the gain twist bore. My son has since bought a 460 revolver and only shoots jacketed.

[JeffinTD]

Thanks for the replies.

So far the only thing I’ve fired through it is 45 Colt, 250 rnfp Rimrock 8g Unique that I run in volume on a Dillon 1050. Those shot with impressive accuracy.

Just got Starline 460 brass, dies and some 300g xtp mag bullets. Still waiting for mold, new sizer.

I’m going to try a range of H4227, Lil Gun and 296.

Anyway, I anticipat the main thing I’ll shoot outnod this thing will be the 300g cast GC Lee bullet. I’m after a moderate/full power load but accuracy matters to me more than every last FPS.

[tradbear55]

I'm going through the same thing. Not much listed for mid range or cast. AA5744 looks to be a good choice for downloading and its not position sensitive. Trailboss works fine but way to slow for me. Unique seems to be another good choice.

[JeffinTD]

I use quite s bit of Trail Boss but mainly thought it useful in reduced power cast loads?

I use it in 357 magnum for low power loads with 125g cast.

Never tried AA5477. I’ll have to look into it.

[Danw791]

I run this boolit powdercoated with a gas check over 36.5 grains of h110 in my 460V with good accuracy. Total weight after powder coating and gas check is around 315 grains. It’s well below max, but was getting sticky extraction and less accuracy towards the max end of the spectrum.

[Danw791]

My load above runs around 1400 fps out of the 5 inch barrel.

[tradbear55]

I'm going through the same thing. Not much listed for mid range or cast. AA5744 looks to be a good choice for downloading and its not position sensitive. Trailboss works fine but way to slow for me. Unique seems to be another good choice.
Sometimes my fingers move faster than my brain. I meant AA5744

[JeffinTD]

Thanks for the reply. I haven’t shot H110 but have 296 which seems to be pretty similar and is one of my favorites in 44 magnum.

Can I ask what alloy you are using, and what sort of groups?

I’m not looking to download the gun, but I’m not wanting to push it to sticky extraction either.

[JeffinTD]

Sometimes my fingers move faster than my brain. I meant AA5744

That looks like an interesting powder, and would probably work well for mid to lower power.

[Dieselhorses]

I shoot 440 grainers out of my 500 (8.375" barrel) with IMR4227 and get great accuracy. Better than H110, Lil Gun and 296.

[DougGuy]

Thanks for the reply. I haven’t shot H110 but have 296 which seems to be pretty similar and is one of my favorites in 44 magnum.

H110 and W296 are in fact the exact same powder, made in the same plant, one is branded Winchester, the other Hodgdon. There are no differences in the powders, except for normal lot to lot variations.

[JeffinTD]

Interesting. I’ve seen loads for both, listing very slightly different charges.

Once I get the thing scoped I’ll probaky shoot some groups with 296, 4227, and lil gun with 400 grain cast and xtp mag, though what I’ve been reading about Lil’Gun concerns me a bit.

4227 and RE-7 were the powders, after experimenting with a bunch of loads, that gave me the best groups with 45-70 in a 16” Contender pistol.

[Danw791]

Alloy used was straight wheel weights. Groups at 2 inches at 25 yards with open sights.

[JeffinTD]

Wow that isn’t bad. I’ve never messed with powder coating, as that wasn’t around back when I used to cast a lot for 44 magnum, and a muzzle loader.

I’ve got probably a couple hundred pounds of wheel weight, but I figured it wouldn’t work in the 460 or 45-70 as I used to get leading in 44 magnum unless I used a gas check design.

I’ve ordered some #2 alloy, and figured I’d use wheel weight and boat ballast in 357 cowboy powered loads, and 45 acp.

[murf205]

237917I think you would like the powder coating especially in high velocity hand gun boolits. All you need is a push through Lee sizer die after the coating and you're good to go. There is absolutely nothing wrong with lubing with the 450 but the results I have had with PC are just too good to ignore. Here is the 300 gr Lee that I have driven almost 2100 fps from a 15" T/C Encore with no leading at all. It will definitely let you know you have shot a hand cannon when you torch one of these off! Remember that fit is king, for not leading, no matter what the boolit prep is. If you have not done so already, you should slug your barrel and cylinder throats. Good luck, these big boomers are, well, a blast!

[JeffinTD]

Yeah I have a 45-70 Contender that kicks pretty good at new model Marlin loads. For some reason it won’t print lighter bullets, and the heavier you load it with 405 grain bullets the tighter it groups.

So far I’ve only shot 45 Colt cast, and jacketed 300’s out of the 460. Seems to show good accuracy potential with both, but after a partial cornea transplant I’ll have to have a scope on the thing to do any meaningful 100 yard accuracy testing.

I may have to try powder coating. I’d heard accuracy wasn’t quite as good as traditional size/lube, but from what I’ve been reading that isn’t necessarily true. Looks like Fortune Cookie had been experimenting with traditional lube/gas check with powder coating, which is an interesting idea.

I might play with powder coating first in 45 ACP and 357. I shoot enough in those calibers that the time saving could really be worth it, plus the cost saving if I could shoot unknown alloy scrap lead without fouling.

[murf205]

As far as accuracy goes, the gun will tell us what it wants. I have had good accuracy with both types at high and lower velocities. The fit of the boolit in a revolver like the one you have is paramount to accuracy. Size them to the diameter of the cylinder throats and you will be on the right track. If the throats are too small for the bore diameter, you'll probably get leading and poor accuracy. The plus side of that is that you can always enlarge the throats.
You can read the sticky's here on powder coating and get some really easy info for the process. Your main expense will be a toaster oven (used) and a decent thermometer. BUT.. lubing and sizing in a 450 has been working for a loooong time, and there are some really good lubes now that probably were not available when you were casting before.

[JeffinTD]

Yeah things have changed for sure. I’m particularly impressed with Lee’s current molds for the money.

[murf205]

Yep, some of my better boolits are made with Lee molds. I am really impressed with their 6 cavity mold handles for the money, as well as their push through sizer dies. The sizers are relatively soft steel and are easily made a bit larger with a split dowel and fine sand paper rolled on a cushioned bench top with some fine oil. That is especially helpful if a revolver cylinder is larger than the push through die diameter. The 460 S&W I have loaded for is an Encore, as I stated before, so I have not had to address this cylinder issue. That gun loves Accurate 1680 with a 290gr NOE boolit, but it's got a 15" barrel to burn it in. You will know more when you find out what your guns dimensions are. From my experience with recent S&W revolvers, the cylinder is USUALLY the same as barrel diameter. I have 2 newer guns that were a bit smaller. Pin gages are a really valuable tool for us wheel gun junkies. How long is your barrel?

[JeffinTD]

It’s an 8 3/8”.

.451 bullets can be pushed through the throats with some resistance, so I know the throats are slightly smaller. It shoots my regular 45 Colt load (Rimrock 250 rnfp and 8g Unique) much better than my SAA, and with no leading.

Got my new molds the other day, and ran some wheel weight through a Lee 6 cav 125g 357 mold. Steel alognemt pins are a great improvement, mold heats up fast (which I expected) but doesn’t overheat, and perfect bullets just fall out on their own.

[murf205]

The Lee 300 gr GC boolit you said you were going to shoot is one of the best loads for the 460 I was shooting. I hope you have as good results with that mold. With Accurate 1680 it went 1893 fps from the 15" barrel Encore. Your 8 3/8" barrel wont do figures like that but it will still hit like a run away freight train--on both ends. I have entertained the thought of running some of my 405gr boolits through the .452 sizer for the 460, but when it comes to recoil, I'm like Clint Eastwood, "a mans got to know his limitations". Besides, here in the deep south, we are fresh out of cape buffalo, and the 300gr will shoot through anything.

[JeffinTD]

Yeah.... shot several powders working up charges for the 300 grain jacketed, and although recoil seemed pretty mellow at the time, my hand has been reminding me I’m not an indestructible kid anymore.

Waiting to cast the bullets for the 460 for some Lyman #2 alloy to get here. I may experiment with wheel weight and boat ballast, but I thought I’d begin with known alloy.

[Moonie]

I have the 300gr Lee for my 45 Colt NMBH, and my 20" Encore 460 S&W but I also have an NOE 325gr HP (350gr non-HP) that I load in 454 and 460 S&W. I like heavy weights, in my 500 S&W I have a mold from mp-molds that casts a 580gr deep HP, 630gr pentagonal HP and a 700gr solid. That things really kills on both ends, and is the reason I added a muzzle brake to that monster.

I powder coat for the 45/454/460 and use W296/H110 in 45Colt, 2400 in 454 and W296/H110 in 460.

In the 500 S&W I lube with Carnuba Red and load all 3 of those heavy weights with 25gr of W296/H110

[JeffinTD]

What do you run for alloy?

I tried a variety of heavier bullets, various loads and such in the SAA with a buddy’s ransom rest. The 250 rnfp didn’t shoot too bad, and kieth type, tc and most other designs will not feed through a Lightning rifle I’ve got... Also have a Miroku 66 Winchester, but it will feed and shoot accurately with anything... so I just run the 250 rnfp in 45 Colt. In my testing Red Dot showed potential with light billets, but 250 and above liked Unique.

296 always gave me best results in 44 magnum, but I bought a lot of Blue Dot from a place going out of business. Not the cleanest burning, but worked well with 240 grain gc.

Anyhoo, Lyman #2 arrived today. Carnuba Red should arrive Monday. Next day off is Tuesday, so maybe I can have some loads to test.

[murf205]

Moonie, What speeds are you getting from that 700gr boolit? That is a bazooka for sure!

[Moonie]

Moonie, What speeds are you getting from that 700gr boolit? That is a bazooka for sure!

I haven't pulled out the chrony to check yet but I do need to. I also haven't cast any solids, only the HP's so far. I need to do that too. If the alloy question ws to me, I use straight COWW.

[lar45]

I'm a little late to the party but...
I don't have a 460, but I do have a BFR 45-70 and have pushed 405s(water dropped wheel weights) to 1750 with Carnauba Red and IMR 4227.
I also have a 4" 500S&W that I only shoot cast out of. Carnauba Red has worked very well in it also.

[JeffinTD]

Gas checked?

May I ask your preferred powder?

[lar45]

The 500S&W has mostly been gas checked bullets. IMR 4227 works really well. If I could find WC820 anywhere, I would use it instead.

The 405 in the 45-70BFR was the Lee plain based mold. The best overall powder that I've found for it has to be IMR SR 4759.

[JeffinTD]

I have the plain based lee 405 mold and I’ve cast some out of #2 alloy and will use Carnuba Red. I’ve found RE7 gives me best accuracy in 45-70 out of my Contender, and shoot well in my rifles as well.

A local shop has a used RCBS 2 cavity gas check, and I wonder if it would be worth having.

[lar45]

It would definitely be easier to push higher velocity with a gas check.

[WehrmannsGeweher]

I used straight WW, 4227 and SPG. Worked just great.

[JeffinTD]

Well, by way of update I’ve shot some of the 300gr Lee bullets with Carnuba Red, gas check, #2 alloy.

Played with W296, Lil Gun, H4227

None are giving impressive accuracy.

300g XTP Mag shoots quite accurately behind full loads of W296 and H4227.

Will have to try some different powders as I’d really like to find a highly accurate cast load.

[JeffinTD]

Was thinking I might try Ramshot Enforcer. Never used it, but hear good things in magnum handgun loads.

Anyone messed with it with cast bullets in 460?