My .60 cal Tri-Ball Load Results

[Drakehammer]

This is my first OP here on Cast Boolits. I spend a lot of time working up buckshot loads for deer, but got interested in the Tri-Ball loads that are often discussed here. Had some .602 cal hard balls made up by an experienced fellow up in Cartersville, GA. So here are my results at 40 lasered yards. I had to make a few improvements to keep the wad base cup intact but other than that pretty much closely followed the Dixie recipes and recommendations shared here. This is out of my Beretta A400 26” barrel with a custom prototype choke I am developing. I am totally psyched! Stay safe and Enjoy!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190308/7af0d737df19c95d7a02513536d0b299.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190308/b45426dc64c443b73db4e24f31ce8314.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190308/0b0d33230b28bb7b7a3a0d2ac76f97dc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190308/1c56f21f191d7f31bbe1f115625d4d03.jpg


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[5Shot]

Wow! What distance? Approx. Choke diameter?

[Hogtamer]

Looks like a pighammer to me! I'm just up the road in Appling.

[Drakehammer]

Looks like a pighammer to me! I'm just up the road in Appling.

Here on on Baker Place Rd. off of Columbia Rd. Turn at William Few. Harlem alma mater.


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[Drakehammer]

Wow! What distance? Approx. Choke diameter?

My choke designs have multiple constrictions but this was my .680 version. Shot was a lasered 40 yards yesterday.


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[Drakehammer]

The load is a 3 1/2” version using Steel powder, TUPRW123 wad, PSB and a roll crimp.

You can see by the picture, on a previous shot I failed to fully slit the wad to the cup, and now that wad and a round ball are a permanent feature in my shot trap frame.


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[5Shot]

I missed that wad poking out the first time...probably going to have a tough time getting it out of there!

[Traffer]

this is some serious stuff!

[HiVelocity]

Hal-

Sounds like you need to go visit this gentleman; put your heads together...........see what you two can put together.

HV

[Markopolo]

Wow... very interesting stuff here.... how was the recoil???

Imagine that... I just placed an order from precision... too bad them wads weren’t part of the package... [smilie=b:

Those look very cool I must say... nice work!!!

[Drakehammer]

Wow... very interesting stuff here.... how was the recoil???

Well they are quite potent. Like a serious turkey load. But the Beretta A400 is known to be a “softer recoiling” gun say compared to my SBE II. My A400 is shimmed to fit me as closely as possible and it is modified with a better recoil pad that has a more appropriate shape for my chest/shoulder geometry. So that really helps. I believe the calculated recoil is 80-90 lbs but I’ll have to run those numbers when Im back at my computer to be sure.



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[luke777]

Well they are quite potent. Like a serious turkey load. But the Beretta A400 is known to be a “softer recoiling” gun say compared to my SBE II. My A400 is shimmed to fit me as closely as possible and it is modified with a better recoil pad that has a more appropriate shape for my chest/shoulder geometry. So that really helps. I believe the calculated recoil is 80-90 lbs but I’ll have to run those numbers when Im back at my computer to be sure.



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Well the plot thickens!! Ha ha ha!! I wnt down the triball road too a couple of years back. Living in Australia it was a real journey getting components but I did it. How amazing are they... absolute power-hammers. Recoil really knocked me around though. I was pretty rattled after 6-8 rounds and when the pigs are on I needed to be able to shoot more hence I am looking at some buckshot loads. So tempting to revisit these though seeing as I have all the components... Interesting to see you made a 3.5" version!! I have nothing chambered for 3.5" so I will have to stick with the 3". Your choke looks very interesting and results are truly excellent. Well done!

[Traffer]

I don't hunt pigs but think you would want something with smaller balls. Yikes 3 .60" balls in a 2" group? Single wound channel. These would be better suited for bear, I would think.

[LeonCarr]

Looks like you have experienced the power and the majesty of Tri-Ball Buckshot firsthand...there is no going back now.

Everything else is well, just buckshot.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[Drakehammer]

Looks like you have experienced the power and the majesty of Tri-Ball Buckshot firsthand...there is no going back now.

Everything else is well, just buckshot.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

That’s funny but you could very well be right.


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[longbow]

Did you dimple the balls or is that from impact? Looks like the intentionally dimpled round balls I have seen for muzzleloaders.

That really is a nice tight group at 40 yards! Maybe makes a better choice than a slug?

Have you shot them further? Just wondering how the group holds up at 75 yards or beyond. If smoothbore slug accuracy just isn't there and those Tri-Ball loads keep at least a couple balls in th ekill zone at long range they may well be a better choice.

That is some serious stuff!

Longbow

[Drakehammer]

Did you dimple the balls or is that from impact? Looks like the intentionally dimpled round balls I have seen for muzzleloaders.


That is where the sprue was. I first tumbled the round balls together for several hours to smooth the sprue as much a possible. The balls are very hard so the sprue wasn’t completely smoothed out but was close. Just like the muzzleloader guys do, I stacked each ball in the wad with the sprue centered and pointed directly upward (toward the muzzle) to potentially minimize its contribution to the balls tumbling in flight. The sprue on the bottom and middle balls get flattened a bit on setback. That’s what you see in the picture.

I have not taken the balls any farther than 40 yards yet but will post results when I do.


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[luke777]

That is where the sprue was. I first tumbled the round balls together for several hours to smooth the sprue as much a possible. The balls are very hard so the sprue wasn’t completely smoothed out but was close. Just like the muzzleloader guys do, I stacked each ball in the wad with the sprue centered and pointed directly upward (toward the muzzle) to potentially minimize its contribution to the balls tumbling in flight. The sprue on the bottom and middle balls get flattened a bit on setback. That’s what you see in the picture.

I have not taken the balls any farther than 40 yards yet but will post results when I do.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI think he may mean the tiny little dimples all over the balls that is from the spherical shot buffer? That is if you use spherical shot buffer? If you use #47 or something else well then I don't know what I'm talking about. Ha ha!

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[Drakehammer]

I think he may mean the tiny little dimples all over the balls that is from the spherical shot buffer? That is if you use spherical shot buffer?
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Yes the “eroded” or “pitted” surface is a result of the use of the spherical buffer. If you study the balls, you can tell the order that the balls were stacked in the wad.

Here’s some nickel plated buckshot that shows the effect of spherical buffer on the surface as well.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190316/2653d55aaa0ee18b9209b45d8531590d.jpg



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[luke777]

Yes the “eroded” or “pitted” surface is a result of the use of the spherical buffer. If you study the balls, you can tell the order that the balls were stacked in the wad.

Here’s some nickel plated buckshot that shows the effect of spherical buffer on the surface as well.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190316/2653d55aaa0ee18b9209b45d8531590d.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWill be casting some more soon myself. Have some Linotype and pure lead and dusted off the PID controller and melting pot so I am good to go. Still trying to decide whether or not to water drop them.... What hardness do you get with your shot again? Was it around 18 Brinell?

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[Drakehammer]

Will be casting some more soon myself. Have some Linotype and pure lead and dusted off the PID controller and melting pot so I am good to go. Still trying to decide whether or not to water drop them.... What hardness do you get with your shot again? Was it around 18 Brinell?

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I have never cast round balls myself as I am not really set up for it. I had a seasoned blackpowder guy make them for me at 1 part Linotype : 1 part pure lead. I verified that he dropped the round balls into water. I chose this alloy as I calculated it to have 6% Antimony (which is what the best commercial magnum shot made by Remington contains), as well as 2% Tin which should also increase the hardness. Most commercial buckshot from PR and BPI is notoriously soft and only contains 2%-3% Antimony, so I figured my choice had to be an improvement.

I did a quick Cast Boolits search and found the following excerpt:

“...Infact, your mix above, 50% Linotype/50% Pure Lead, is the "Recipe" for Hardball Alloy which is what most commercial reloaders have used for 30 years! It is actually around 15-16 BHN though.

It was designed back then as a replacement for Lyman #2 Alloy. It achieves the same hardness using less than 1/2 the Tin and at the time it was very economical since Linotype was being phased out of the printing industry and it was easy to find at bargain prices.”


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[longbow]

Well, live and learn! I have not used spherical shot buffer so no experience here. I would not have guessed it would deform hard lead though. Your balls look like they have been roughed up (that may sound rude but really isn't!). Some muzzleloader shooters intentionally rough up their RB's on the premise that they fly better due to disrupted air flow reducing drag.

Your results are encouraging so I just may have to order some components for Tri-Ball loads!

Longbow

[RED BEAR]

Wow i am truly impressed.

[5Shot]

Well, live and learn! I have not used spherical shot buffer so no experience here. I would not have guessed it would deform hard lead though. Your balls look like they have been roughed up (that may sound rude but really isn't!). Some muzzleloader shooters intentionally rough up their RB's on the premise that they fly better due to disrupted air flow reducing drag.

Your results are encouraging so I just may have to order some components for Tri-Ball loads!

Longbow

Roughing up the round ball has no affect. The ball is going so fast that there is no laminar flow over the surface of the ball, which is the only time the dimples would help. I asked the question many years ago in a fluid dynamics class. Once the projectile is above the required velocity ( which it would be when fired from any rifle or handgun) there is no need for the dimples.

[6pt-sika]

Alright I had wondered about the surface on the balls . At first I was thinking they had fallen from the mold that way , then I was thinking perhaps they were water quenched and it caused that but any rifle bullets I ever water quenched never looked like that .

How thick are the petals of the wads your using ? I wouldn't mind getting a round ball mold for my 12's but I wanna use the same CB wads I use in the 12 for bird shot , buck shot and slugs . So I would assume I need a round ball bigger then .605 as the petals on your wads "appear to be" thicker then CB wads .

[Petander]

238156.

Impressive.

[Longknife]

Alright I had wondered about the surface on the balls . At first I was thinking they had fallen from the mold that way , then I was thinking perhaps they were water quenched and it caused that but any rifle bullets I ever water quenched never looked like that .

How thick are the petals of the wads your using ? I wouldn't mind getting a round ball mold for my 12's but I wanna use the same CB wads I use in the 12 for bird shot , buck shot and slugs . So I would assume I need a round ball bigger then .605 as the petals on your wads "appear to be" thicker then CB wads .

6 pt, I have been experimenting with round balls in a 12 gauge and I found that a .690 round ball fits perfectly in a shot wad cup. I cast mine from wheel weights and they weigh 470 grains. I haven't shot any yet,,,Ed

[Drakehammer]

Alright I had wondered about the surface on the balls . At first I was thinking they had fallen from the mold that way , then I was thinking perhaps they were water quenched and it caused that but any rifle bullets I ever water quenched never looked like that .

How thick are the petals of the wads your using ? I wouldn't mind getting a round ball mold for my 12's but I wanna use the same CB wads I use in the 12 for bird shot , buck shot and slugs . So I would assume I need a round ball bigger then .605 as the petals on your wads "appear to be" thicker then CB wads .

I don’t think you’re going to have good results with a standard target wad. The wads, TUPRW123s from PR, were chosen because 3 balls fit in them perfectly and they are the toughest wads with thickest petals on the market that I am aware of. I measured the thickness at the end of the petals between .038” and .044” with my calipers so I just call it .040” . (Don’t be fooled, other brands advertise thicker but that measurement is not taken at the end of the petal.) If you are familiar with the SAM 1 wad you know how tough they are. I trimmed a SAM 1 down to proper length and tried it first and one of the petals was ripped completely off. I believe some of DS original recipes used the MM wad but they were not tough enough and they ended up with the orange TUPRW123 wad as well in their last recipe if I am not mistaken. Save yourself some time and skip all the others.

Here’s a pic of my round balls before and after being shot at a steel pattern paint board at 32 yards. I am not sure of the steel thickness but it was substantial and the 3 dents in the steel were significant.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190317/1eda1068f19ceef54add77e64cd39309.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190317/70a251d83077f8cc322ac745172d7b63.jpg


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[6pt-sika]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190317/1eda1068f19ceef54add77e64cd39309.jpg

I don’t think you’re going to have good results with a standard target wad. The wads, TUPRW123s from PR, were chosen because 3 balls fit in them perfectly and they are the toughest wads with thickest petals on the market that I am aware of. I measured the thickness at the end of the petals between .038” and .044” with my calipers so I just call it .040” . (Don’t be fooled, other brands advertise thicker but that measurement is not taken at the end of the petal.) If you are familiar with the SAM 1 wad you know how tough they are. I trimmed a SAM 1 down to proper length and tried it first and one of the petals was ripped completely off. I believe some of DS original recipes used the MM wad but they were not tough enough and they ended up with the orange TUPRW123 wad as well in their last recipe if I am not mistaken. Save yourself some time and skip all the others.

Here’s a pic of my round balls before and after being shot at a steel pattern paint board at 40 yards. I am not sure of the steel thickness but the 3 dents in the steel were significant. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190317/70a251d83077f8cc322ac745172d7b63.jpg


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I’ll mostly load in 2 3/4” hulls and possibly 3” . I suspect one ball will most likely be it in the 2 3/4” and maybe two in a 3” . My parameters will be at 25 yards two shots right barrel and two shots left barrel or in the A-5 3” three at 25 yards .

[6pt-sika]

6 pt, I have been experimenting with round balls in a 12 gauge and I found that a .690 round ball fits perfectly in a shot wad cup. I cast mine from wheel weights and they weigh 470 grains. I haven't shot any yet,,,Ed


Thanks , I was studying “Track of the Wolf’s” webpage last night trying to decide on roundball molds one for the 12 and a second for the 10 . Of course this would be more intresting if I can get two round balls in each load , but with these old guns there’s only so much payload I wanna push out primarily because of pressure issues in Damascus and steel twist barrels . 1 1/8 ounce is 493 grains and 1 1/4 is 547 grains while 1 1/2 is 656 grains . I wanna keep my 12 gauge payload between 490-550 and keep the 10 gauge between 550-650 . So it appears double ball loads aren’t gonna fit into my parameters except possibly in the A-5 think I might be willing to go with two of the .605-.610” balls in a load of course in a 3” load . Might be more pleasant to try these in the Benelli Montefeltro 3” as well . It doesn’t hurt to have options ;)

[Drakehammer]

Thanks , 1 1/8 ounce is 493 grains and 1 1/4 is 547 grains while 1 1/2 is 656 grains . I wanna keep my 12 gauge payload between 490-550 and keep the 10 gauge between 550-650 . So it appears double ball loads aren’t gonna fit into my parameters except possibly in the A-5 think I might be willing to go with two of the .605-.610” balls in a load of course in a 3” load . Might be more pleasant to try these in the Benelli Montefeltro 3” as well . It doesn’t hurt to have options ;)
My .602 hard balls run 311gr-315gr each. Switch to a TUPRW12 wad and the fit may be right for a two ball load just under an ounce and a half in a 2 3/4” hull. I have some of those wads on hand but won’t be able to check that fit until late next week sometime.



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[6pt-sika]

My .602 hard balls run 311gr-315gr each. Switch to a TUPRW12 wad and the fit may be right for a two ball load just under an ounce and a half in a 2 3/4” hull. I have some of those wads on hand but won’t be able to check that fit until late next week sometime.



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You get those wads from “Precision Reloading” correct ? I may just order a bag each for the 2 3/4” and 3” . And while I’m at it a bag for the 10 gauge I’m sure I can come up with something for it as well , just have to trim those wads a skoosh for 2 7/8” 10 gauge hulls .

[Drakehammer]

You get those wads from “Precision Reloading” correct ? I may just order a bag each for the 2 3/4” and 3” . And while I’m at it a bag for the 10 gauge I’m sure I can come up with something for it as well , just have to trim those wads a skoosh for 2 7/8” 10 gauge hulls .

Yep.


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[6pt-sika]

The 2 3/4” . https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=TUPR&i=W12 The 3” . https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=TUPR&i=W123 The 10 gauge . https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=TUPR&i=W105

[6pt-sika]

We ordered from Midway for the shop today so I included a Lee two cavity .600” roundball mold and a Lee single cavity .690” roundball mold .

[6pt-sika]

When the mail arrived at the shop today the pair of Lee molds appeared . So after lunch I fired up the pot and cast 50 of the .600” and 25 of the .690” . Need to order the wads .

[6pt-sika]

Since I have no other "government projects" pressing today I have the pot heating up to cast some more of both size roundballs .

Also went to the Precision Reloading webpage an ordered a bag each of the two wads mentioned above as well as the 10 gauge version of the same thing and felt cushion wads in 20 and 28 gauge sizes . Couldn't order all that without getting some rifle bullets so two boxes of Hornady 30 cal 165 SST's found their way in the cart as well .

"Hopefully" I'll be able to try the wads and balls by the end of the week or sometime next week . I have a Parker EH 10 gauge 34" gun coming from Canada in the next week to ten days . Things choked pretty tight 40 points of constriction in the right barrel and 42 points in the left barrel . I wanna see how the 10 gauge wad with the 69 cal ball feels pushing it thru the chokes , if it isn't tight as the hinges of you get the idea I might give it a go !

[longbow]

I am getting interested in this myself. I've been chasing smoothbore slug accuracy for a long time... or I should say longer than 50 yard slug accuracy, with mediocre success. Some of the Tri-Ball results are pretty impressive to say the least. I'm thinking a little copycatting of the successes is in order.

I better get an order in for some 3" hulls and some of the "Tri-Ball" wads.

I posted in another thread results from my 2 ball loads... which weren't terrible at all but the wads were in poor shape. When I look back at Tri-Ball posts it makes me wonder why I didn't look at those Precision Reloading wads you guys are using either shorter length or cut down for 2 balls. That likely would have helped as James said not to use any wad but those he listed.

I wouldn't have tried a Tri-Ball with the CSD wads.

Anyway, 3 0.600" RB's whistling down range has a certain appeal! After all it is a shotgun!

I will be rereading this and other relevant threads to steel the good stuff!

Longbow

[luke777]

You will not be disappointed once you get the tri ball recipe correct. Absolutely incredible pieces of equipment. I reckon you could shoot a dinosaur with one of those things and flatten it like electricity. At the moment I have a different challenge. I received my 18 cavity Lee 000 Buckshot mould (.360)and for the life of me I cannot get good fill-out. I have a very accurate temperature controller and I am working with a known alloy (50/50 pure Lead and Linotype) . Heating up the mold, fluxing, the mould is extremely clean as all my molds are.... . I'm not sure what to do next. I got the temp of the pot up to 660deg f. Maybe I can go even higher yet..

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[5Shot]

You will not be disappointed once you get the tri ball recipe correct. Absolutely incredible pieces of equipment. I reckon you could shoot a dinosaur with one of those things and flatten it like electricity. At the moment I have a different challenge. I received my 18 cavity Lee 000 Buckshot mould (.360)and for the life of me I cannot get good fill-out. I have a very accurate temperature controller and I am working with a known alloy (50/50 pure Lead and Linotype) . Heating up the mold, fluxing, the mould is extremely clean as all my molds are.... . I'm not sure what to do next. I got the temp of the pot up to 660deg f. Maybe I can go even higher yet..

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I'd try for 725-750 and run the mold HOT. Once that mold is scorching you should get good fill on every pour.

[luke777]

I'd try for 725-750 and run the mold HOT. Once that mold is scorching you should get good fill on every pour.It's funny you should say that. I have just fired it up again and I am going for 720°. I am also heating the mold up on the gas stove top to get it pretty warm before I start. I will let you know how I go.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190326/00b516c4e87e8f27bc35eb9753429467.jpg

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[longbow]

I think "HOT" is required for the Lee buckshot moulds.

I dont use a thermometer and am a ladle caster from a pot on a propane stove. However, I know the characteristics of the lead and what is hot. My brass moulds and NOE moulds like much hotter alloy than my iron moulds. My Lee 00 buckshot mould likes really hot!

Running the Lee 00 buckshot mould past typical frosting heat is the only way I could get good fill out and all three high cavities to fill. Once hot and running though the mould works well.

Longbow

[luke777]

I think "HOT" is required for the Lee buckshot moulds.

I dont use a thermometer and am a ladle caster from a pot on a propane stove. However, I know the characteristics of the lead and what is hot. My brass moulds and NOE moulds like much hotter alloy than my iron moulds. My Lee 00 buckshot mould likes really hot!

Running the Lee 00 buckshot mould past typical frosting heat is the only way I could get good fill out and all three high cavities to fill. Once hot and running though the mould works well.

LongbowI think you are right. I'm at 750 and still no dice. Ambient temp here is 31C so around 90 deg in your scale so that's not a (comparable) factor in temp loss really. I'll keep creeping up.

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[Hogtamer]

Get that nice laminated strung longbow away from that heat!

[luke777]

Get that nice laminated strung longbow away from that heat!It's a bit of an optical illusion Hogtamer. It's well enough away from the heat. Nice spot though! That's my American flat longbow. My favourite rig at the moment.

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[5Shot]

Ordered the wads and have some balls here from 6pt-sika, so as soon as I have everything here I'll be trying these out.

[6pt-sika]

Ordered the wads and have some balls here from 6pt-sika, so as soon as I have everything here I'll be trying these out.

Wads I ordered are “supposed” to be here Tuesday . All that speedy shipping they claim to have is still taking 9 days .

[EVR]

What a great thread!

Anybody got a clue for a load using Win AA huls or Rem STS/Gun Club hulls? I'm assuming a 2-ball maybe?

[6pt-sika]

What a great thread!

Anybody got a clue for a load using Win AA huls or Rem STS/Gun Club hulls? I'm assuming a 2-ball maybe?

Those are the hulls I plan on using . And I’ll arrive at a load with SR7625 based my WEIGHED weight for the balls used . I wanna try and keep the pressure a bit low and the predicted velocity around 1000-1100 FPS . In the 10 gauge and if the .69” ball is kinda snug in the steel shot wad I’ll use 29.8 grains of SR7625 and that will be in the pressure velocity range I’m looking for .

[6pt-sika]

On a side note I cast 80 or so solid base Lyman sabot slugs from my NOE mold in an alloy of 50/50 WW/Pure . Plan on loading a dozen or so of those the same time I try and do the .600” round balls . 239041239042

[5Shot]

On a side note I cast 80 or so solid base Lyman sabot slugs from my NOE mold in an alloy of 50/50 WW/Pure . Plan on loading a dozen or so of those the same time I try and do the .600” round balls . 239041239042

Did you find load data for that solid slug?

[6pt-sika]

Did you find load data for that solid slug?

Not yet I'll weigh them tomorrow and go from there . I shouldn't think the solid base is more then 60 grains extra .

[Markopolo]

You won’t have any trouble finding data for the solid base... I have a bunch if you give me the weight I can dig around if you can’t find nuthin..

[6pt-sika]

The wads arrived from Precision Tuesday I’ve gotta preview an auction tommorrow so I’ll see if I can’t drag a couple loafers to the shop Friday and load some double balls for 12 2 3/4” and possibly triple balls for 12 3” . Also wanna load some 69 balls for the 10 gauge it “appears” to be a fair fit with those rather thick petaled steel wads and hopefully load some 12 2 3/4” with the solid base slugs . FWIW those felt 1/4” wads work very well or so it appears in between the balls . 20’s for the 10 gauge and 28’s for the 12 .

[EVR]

FWIW those felt 1/4” wads work very well or so it appears in between the balls . 20’s for the 10 gauge and 28’s for the 12 .

Do they introduce any "give" in the whole payload? I'd think this would be a no-no. Don't you want a solid stack with no slop between the balls? Or are those felt wads "hard"?

Looking forward to your 2-ball testing.

[6pt-sika]

Do they introduce any "give" in the whole payload? I'd think this would be a no-no. Don't you want a solid stack with no slop between the balls? Or are those felt wads "hard"?

Looking forward to your 2-ball testing.

Yes they’re soft .

[6pt-sika]

Well I have my MEC Steelmaster that’s set for 12 gauge 3” , a MEC 600JR that’s set for 12 gauge 2 3/4” , my MEC Sizemaster that’s set for 10 gauge 2 7/8” and a menagerie of powders , wads , hulls and other stuff in the back of the truck for trial and error at the shop tommorrow . I have no doubt the 10 gauge with 69 ball inside the Precision steel wad should go easily and the 12 gauge 2 3/4” with the solid base Lyman sabot slug . The 12 gauge 2 3/4” and 3” with double or triple .600” balls might be a slightly different story ;)

[6pt-sika]

I’m kinda sniffing around a rather nice but well used Belgium Browning A-5 20 gauge magnum , if I’m able to get the deal struck I’m gonna get a bunch of once fired Remington 20 gauge 3” hulls and another roundball mold :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

[Drakehammer]

James at Dixie slugs was adamant that the round balls are stacked directly on top of each other without anything in between including buffer. I’ve had great luck following this suggestion. I stack the balls with a quarter inch cork or fiber wad in the shut cup. The last round ball will be about half way into the 3 inch wad. Then I hold the balls in place while I pour the spherical buffer and vibrate it all into place. I am having better accuracy results with the 3 1/2” version.


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[EVR]

James at Dixie slugs was adamant that the round balls are stacked directly on top of each other without anything in between including buffer. I’ve had great luck following this suggestion. I stack the balls with a quarter inch cork or fiber wad in the shut cup. The last round ball will be about half way into the 3 inch wad. Then I hold the balls in place while I pour the spherical buffer and vibrate it all into place. I am having better accuracy results with the 3 1/2” version.


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This is what I thot, that one should not place any felt or other material between the balls.

[6pt-sika]

Got all I was after and some additional stuff loaded . The 10 gauge .69 ball turned out pretty well , but needed four felt spacers to get it up where I wanted it . The 12 gauge solid base slugs went together as easily as there HB relatives . The 12 2 3/4” double ball needed some arranging to get it where I wanted . And finally the 3” 12 gauge with three balls was relatively easy as well although I think the final folded crimp could be a skoosh better . Think I’ll either shoot these at the house or stroll to the range Monday .

[luke777]

WellI finally got my Lee 000 buck mold to work today. Took 6 times trying with different slightly hotter temperatures. I ended up having to run the mold VERY hot as several of you advised. I ended up getting success at a (ridiculously) hot 820 degrees. I know... What the???? But it worked and nothing below that yielded results for me. I needed to wait around 15 seconds for the sprue to frost over and open the mold each time but.... Hey.... Finally a result. Now to wait on a couple of components from the U.S. so I can make a batch and see how I go.

[Petander]

Yep,I run my Lee buck #3 @ 850F.

[luke777]

Yep,I run my Lee buck #3 @ 850F.Well there ya go! I'm using 50/50 pure Lead and Linotype.

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[6pt-sika]

Well my 12 2 3/4” double ball loads were low and about an eight in spread . Might tweak this one a bit . The tri ball 3” loads were tighter and a noticeably more recoil . The solid base Lyman slugs shot as well as the HB glue filled . All were shot at 25 yards with my Benelli Montefeltro 12 gauge 3” and IC screw in . The 10 gauge Parker did okay with the single 69 ball from the SP-10 wads but the ones with the Precision steel wads wouldn’t go in the gun , little to much bulge where the ball contacts the wad . Monday I’ll load some more of the double ball and some more of the 10 gauge .

[6pt-sika]

Next time I wanna try some of the solid base slugs in my A-5 with the Hastings rifled barrel , and may as well try some with the Belgium Browning smoothbore slug barrel .

[luke777]

Next time I wanna try some of the solid base slugs in my A-5 with the Hastings rifled barrel , and may as well try some with the Belgium Browning smoothbore slug barrel .You are doing some awesome work there. Thanks for keeping us in the loop. Slug and buckshot loading is just so interesting.

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[6pt-sika]

You are doing some awesome work there. Thanks for keeping us in the loop. Slug and buckshot loading is just so interesting.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk I shot today and it was all in my front yard LOL’s ! Bear in mind I live in the country on a sizable piece of real estate ;)

[luke777]

I shot today and it was all in my front yard LOL’s ! Bear in mind I live in the country on a sizable piece of real estate ;)Well you have obviously done what you had to do in life up to this point to facilitate that awesome luxury. One day I'd love to have the same. Thanks again!

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[OldBearHair]

Get that nice laminated strung longbow away from that heat! Ditto Ditto

[EVR]

I shot today and it was all in my front yard LOL’s ! Bear in mind I live in the country on a sizable piece of real estate ;)

Well?????

Waiting for pix and results (im)patiently. :)

[6pt-sika]

239470

239471

239472

239473

they're kinda self explanatory . if you can read the little slips of paper . All were fired at 25 yards . The 10 gauge from a circa 1899 Parker EH 10 gauge 32" choked full and fuller yet . All the 12 gauge stuff was fired from a circa 1988 Benelli Montefeltro 12 gauge 3" with a 22" barrel .

Still have some more of three ball 3" loads to shoot so I haven't loaded anymore of them . I did however load 25 more of the 10 gauge with the .69" roundball today and changed over from 3 1/8" felt 16 gauge wads to a single 3/8" hard card 16 wad I had on hand from some stuff I purchased awhile back . Loaded 14 of the solid base slugs for the 2 3/4" 12 gauge and the only thing I changed was the powder charge went up a skoosh with the SR7625 . And I loaded 15 of the 12 gauge 2 3/4" two .600" ball loads and again boosted the powder charge a skoosh and changed from the two felt wads to two 1/8" 28 gauge hard card wads . Might shoot them in the next day or two depending on inclement weather ;)

[6pt-sika]

Both 2 3/4" loads and the 3" loads had enough juice to them to work the action in the Benelli . I'm kinda interested to see if they're stout enough to work the actions on the Browning A-5 12 Mags .

[5Shot]

Per James Gates the ideal choke for the Tri-Ball is somewhere between 0.665 and 0.690. You might try a tighter choke with those loads to see what affect it has on your spread.

[EVR]

Thanks very much for keeping us informed.

Those 2 3/4" "Tubers" are very interesting.

[6pt-sika]

Per James Gates the ideal choke for the Tri-Ball is somewhere between 0.665 and 0.690. You might try a tighter choke with those loads to see what affect it has on your spread.

In "most" of the guns I shoot you shoot what it is as they don't screw out . My Benelli is the only screw choke gun I own at the moment . Next time I'll use Browning A-5 Mag with the rifled barrel for the solid base slugs and possibly try a mod choke in the Benelli .

[5Shot]

In "most" of the guns I shoot you shoot what it is as they don't screw out . My Benelli is the only screw choke gun I own at the moment . Next time I'll use Browning A-5 Mag with the rifled barrel for the solid base slugs and possibly try a mod choke in the Benelli .

With the Benelli you can probably go Full for the Tri-Ball (not with the slug though).

[6pt-sika]

With the Benelli you can probably go Full for the Tri-Ball (not with the slug though).

The slugs have been fired numerous times through full choked doubles with what I thought were satisfying results . I doubt seriously if I EVER use this stuff in the Benelli for hunting , it’s more of a test vessel you might say . I do hunt with the Benelli but so far with just factory loads but then I’ve not owned the gun a year yet . I have several choke tubes made specifically for buckshot . But as to the double ball loads I’m more inclined to use them in a Parkerand the Triple ball in one of my A-5 Mags . Old isn’t necessarily better just more enjoyable for me ;)

[6pt-sika]

239518239519

[Drakehammer]

Funny looking Tri-Ball. Good luck.


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[6pt-sika]

Funny looking Tri-Ball. Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk No tri balls in those two pics I didn’t load any three inch stuff Monday just 2 3/4” and 10 gauge .

[bikerbeans]

Funny looking Tri-Ball. Good luck.


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Thread drift is SOP on this site.

BB

[Markopolo]

I Am subscribed to this thread, not because of the exact topic, but because I am interested in what these folks have to say, even if it’s off topic... maybe we should just have a topic like “6pt-Sika’s ramblings and musings”..I would subscribe to that one too... or one by drake, hogtamer, blood trail, longbow and many many others. Ramble or drift away.. I am with ya.. I read ya every day!




Funny looking Tri-Ball. Good luck.


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[bikerbeans]

Thread drift is SOP on this site.

BB

And a good thing, IMO.

BB

[5Shot]

My mould arrived today from the classifieds (0.575) - I'm going to cast some up and compare the patterning to the 0.600. I will be water dropping and heat treating to compare that as well.

[Drakehammer]

My mould arrived today from the classifieds (0.575) - I'm going to cast some up and compare the patterning to the 0.600. I will be water dropping and heat treating to compare that as well.

Make them 50% pure Pb and 50% Linotype and drop in water and they will make BPI and PR shot look like marshmallows. You actually won’t need to do a thing, but drop in water if you like. They are about perfect for Triball loads in my opinion.


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[5Shot]

My first attempts with Tri-Ball were a total failure. I'm going to try a few without buffer and see if I am messing things up on this step. Wads were totally destroyed and some loads missed the board entirely at 35 yards.

[Markopolo]

Big bummer 5shot!!!

[Drakehammer]

Doubt its the buffer. What size roundball, plastic wad, fillers, and choke are you using? Can you post pics of the spent wads or spent round balls?


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[luke777]

Doubt its the buffer. What size roundball, plastic wad, fillers, and choke are you using? Can you post pics of the spent wads or spent round balls?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI agree. My experience leads me to suggest to you to look elsewhere for problems before buffer. Some pics of your recipe and results will be a help. Don't give up!

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[longbow]

The question is... did you follow the Dixie Tri-Ball load recipe and procedure exactly, as outlined by James Gates?

It seems several people have tried and failed when they didn't use the exact components James listed and I believe the wad being the most important.

Also, the buffer is there so help support the balls so they don't wedge and jam up. Not sure just what would happen without buffer. James did say not to use soft cast RB's as that could be dangerous for the same reason.

When I tried my 2 ball load I used some CSD steel shot wads I had and while the loads didn't do too badly (okay actually) the wads were totally destroyed. I'll use the wads that James recommended next time.

Longbow

[bikerbeans]

My first attempts with Tri-Ball were a total failure. I'm going to try a few without buffer and see if I am messing things up on this step. Wads were totally destroyed and some loads missed the board entirely at 35 yards.

More questions,

What lead alloy.

Heated treated, water dropped, air cooled.

Powder charge and type

Crimp.

0.600 or 0.575 round balls.

Sorted by weight?

Choke construction.

Wad type.

Hull type.

Lots of variables to consider before omitting the buffer.

BB

[EVR]

dongiveupguys!!

me neither...

[5Shot]

OK - I followed the Dixie Slugs Recipe exactly.

My balls were 0.575, 50/50 COWW/Pure, heat treated to 24 Bhn - I did not weight sort.
Remington Nitro Steel Hulls with the yellow base wad (same volume as the Chedite).
TUPRW123 wad
28.0 Blue Dot
PR Spherical Buffer
Roll Crimp (GAEP)
Kick's 0.670 GT Choke, Benelli M2 Barrel

I didn't save any of the spent wads, and I didn't dig any of the balls out of the dirt. Wads were destroyed, some with the bottoms blown out (I'm sure that was the one that missed the backer completely). I seated the balls hard in the bottom of the wad, and held them tight while vibrating the buffer in. Roll crimped with a GAEP tool using clear overshot disks and 0.030 card. Neither worked.

I'm not giving up, but it wasn't a promising start. My mould is a Lyman, which has more of a sprue than the Lee, and I did not try to minimize it in any way. Would not have thought it would make a huge difference at 35y.

[luke777]

OK - I followed the Dixie Slugs Recipe exactly.

My balls were 0.575, 50/50 COWW/Pure, heat treated to 24 Bhn - I did not weight sort.
Remington Nitro Steel Hulls with the yellow base wad (same volume as the Chedite).
TUPRW123 wad
28.0 Blue Dot
PR Spherical Buffer
Roll Crimp (GAEP)
Kick's 0.670 GT Choke, Binelli M2 Barrel

I didn't save any of the spent wads, and I didn't dig any of the balls out of the dirt. Wads were destroyed, some with the bottoms blown out (I'm sure that was the one that missed the backer completely). I seated the balls hard in the bottom of the wad, and held them tight while vibrating the buffer in. Roll crimped with a GAEP tool using clear overshot disks and 0.030 card. Neither worked.

I'm not giving up, but it wasn't a promising start. My mould is a Lyman, which has more of a sprue than the Lee, and I did not try to minimize it in any way. Would not have thought it would make a huge difference at 35y.So by the sounds of that, the biggest difference are: the hull, the use of mica wad slick and no thin overshot card under the bottom ball?
I used Fiocchi hulls which I was advised were interchangeable for Cheddite hulls for the triball recipe and were the only option for me to import into Australia from the US at that time.
I used wad-slick to dust the wads and dropped a circle-fly thin overshot card (20 gauge I think [emoji848]) into the base of the wad before the balls. It sits under the first ball and helps reinforce the wad base. Once I did all these things and used the spherical buffer as you describe I had success. There may well be other ways but I only have experience in this method.
Good fortune!

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[5Shot]

I did use mica - forgot to mention that. I did not use anything under the first ball, and don't recall that ever being mentioned before.

[luke777]

I did use mica - forgot to mention that. I did not use anything under the first ball, and don't recall that ever being mentioned before.Yeah mate I will double check now but I am 99% certain that that was part of the recipe that was given to me. I'll get back to you as soon as possible.

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[luke777]

Yeah mate I will double check now but I am 99% certain that that was part of the recipe that was given to me. I'll get back to you as soon as possible.

Sent from my SM-G960F using TapatalkI am not very technologically gifted so I am going to take a photo of the email I was sent regarding this exact problem. I remember now, I had the same problem as you. The balls would blowing holes through the back or the base of the wads. Adding within over shot card to the recipe fixed it. This may be the answer to your problem hopefully.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190506/d0a5ac9ecd2f4dc07a9453aae3036056.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190506/68d71edc154d7bb234b63da91cb6b1a6.jpg

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[luke777]

I am not very technologically gifted so I am going to take a photo of the email I was sent regarding this exact problem. I remember now, I had the same problem as you. The balls would blowing holes through the back or the base of the wads. Adding within over shot card to the recipe fixed it. This may be the answer to your problem hopefully.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190506/d0a5ac9ecd2f4dc07a9453aae3036056.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190506/68d71edc154d7bb234b63da91cb6b1a6.jpg

Sent from my SM-G960F using TapatalkOf course, all this reloading stuff is at our own risk but I am going to make the assumption we are all adults here. Be safe! These recipes are not mine and whilst they worked for me.... Blah blah.... [emoji6]

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[bikerbeans]

The OPs accurate triball load used .602" balls, not 0.575". Since the .602" balls fit well in a tuprw 123 wad i would think there would be enough room for the 0.575" balls to be off centerline in the wad. OP also used Steel not Blue Dot and Steel tends to run less peak pressure Blue Dot for a given payload and velocity.

Just my thoughts, i am lucky when i can get 1 roundball to go where i point it.

BB

[luke777]

The OPs accurate triball load used .602" balls, not 0.575". Since the .602" balls fit well in a tuprw 123 wad i would think there would be enough room for the 0.575" balls to be off centerline in the wad. OP also used Steel not Blue Dot and Steel tends to run less peak pressure Blue Dot for a given payload and velocity.

Just my thoughts, i am lucky when i can get 1 roundball to go where i point it.

BBTrue! And my results were not as good as THE OP's. His patterns were amazing in that gun with that load. Here are my results out of a gun I no longer own. Range was only 25 metres.

I shot the last one a tad lower to make one pattern easier to see. All patterns were kind of "flat" like that. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190506/2da4c3e4acb70c9e411216ca1bf4a886.jpg

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[Drakehammer]

Ok here’s the deal from the OP.

The load that generated that pattern was 3 1/2” with 32gr STEEL. I use 3” hulls with 28gr Blue Dot just the same. Both are roll crimped. Both have 1/4” cork or fiber in the bottom of the wad. An overshot card is not enough to protect the base of the shot-cup. Both use PSB. These loads were taken straight from info I gathered on this forum by James and RMC iirc.

That pattern is typical of my A400 with my .680 choke and 60 cal balls. I tend to get my best results with the 3 1/2” version, which also requires 1/8 or maybe 1/4” cork over the shot.

I doubt .575” balls will ever work well in this wad/gauge combo.

Patterns that you say are blown and wads that are shredded are due to a choke that is too tight. .670 choke diameter never patterned well in any of my guns. Damage to the base of the wad cup is due to lack of cushion...use cork or fiber wad (or maybe felt), OSC is too thin.

One of the most crucial steps is to split the wads as far as you can take a sharp pocket knife to the shot cup. The factory slits are not deep enough and will not release the bottom ball properly, often upsetting the entire shot or carrying the wad straight through the target (or animal).

Open the choke up. Your results should improve. These petals are .035”-.045” thick. Do the math and you can see why the recipe and recommendations are pretty specific.


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[Drakehammer]

True! And my results were not as good as THE OP's. His patterns were amazing in that gun with that load. Here are my results out of a gun I no longer own. Range was only 25 metres.

I shot the last one a tad lower to make one pattern easier to see. All patterns were kind of "flat" like that. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190506/2da4c3e4acb70c9e411216ca1bf4a886.jpg

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Not a terrible pattern but distance is a little short.


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[luke777]

Ok here’s the deal from the OP.

The load that generated that pattern was 3 1/2” with 32gr STEEL. I use 3” hulls with 28gr Blue Dot just the same. Both are roll crimped. Both have cork in the bottom of the wad. An overshot card is not enough to protect the base of the shot-cup. Both use PSB. These loads were taken straight from info I gathered on this forum by James and RMC iirc.

That pattern is typical of my A400 with my .680 choke. I tend to get my best results with the 3 1/2” version.

Patterns that you say are blown and wads that are shredded are due to a choke that is too tight. .670 choke diameter never patterned well in any of my guns. Damage to the base of the wad cup is due to lack of cushion...use cork or fiber wad (or maybe felt), OSC is too thin.

Open the choke up. Your results should improve. These petals are .035”-.045” thick. Do the math and you can see why the recipe and recommendations are pretty specific.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkExcellent info. Thank you!

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[Drakehammer]

One more thing to complicate the issue a little more. My round balls have a sprue to deal with. I tumble 500 of these balls for 12 or more hours in my brass tumbler to smooth that sprue as much as possible. Amazingly enough, the balls are still .600”-.602” after tumbling. Nonetheless, I always place the sprue pointing up (toward the opening of the wad) and I stack the entire column that way. Kind of like the muzzleloaders do. Its a true pain in the ***. The last batch of balls I had made, i tumbled an extra long time so sprue is almost nonexistent. I will be dropping these without any specific orientation.


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[5Shot]

I picked up the .575 mold cheap, so I thought I'd try it and see how it shot. My reason being that with a 0.670 choke, the smaller balls would still be a relatively good fit, although should be a tad loose through the choke. James mentioned that any ball from 0.575 to 0.600 works, but that the 0.600 was opti I'll try adding some cork in the bottom (I'll have to order some fiber wads) and see how that goes. I'll also try the method of adding buffer as each ball is placed in the wad. I can take care of the sprue as well, and see if this helps any.

Drakehammer - are you using a vibratory tumbler or a Thumbler's?

[Drakehammer]

I’m using a standard Lyman vibratory tumbler.

Those .575 balls are what you need for 20ga, from what I can gather. I wish I had some bc I would love to eliminate these 2.25oz 12ga payloads.


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[5Shot]

I can send you some if you'd like. I did some digging, and the original Tri-Ball loads used a 0.570 ball, and over time ended up with a 0.600. I'm going to do some more testing before I give up on this combo. My intention is to have something I can pop in my gun in case a bear shows up while predator calling. Our bear season runs from August to November, so there is lots of opportunity.

[Drakehammer]

I can send you some if you'd like. I did some digging, and the original Tri-Ball loads used a 0.570 ball, and over time ended up with a 0.600.

Yes they did start at .570. I’ve seen those posts in the past.

If I were to chase the .570 / 12ga combo, i would definitely find a way to align those balls in a straight column inside your wad and stabilize with the PSB. Maybe thick mylar or teflon wraps will do the trick. Mylar is much cheaper. I would also keep the same concepts that we’ve been using with the .60 cal balls.


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[5Shot]

I do have mylar, but that added thickness may also require less choke, and I'll be chasing my tail again. I'll try a few combos this weekend. I did have some cork, so I can try that or I can use a leather disk until I get some fiber wads. I have a ton of dense veg tan leather and the perfect punch to make a filler under the ball. It is flexible and tough.

[longbow]

Paper wrap worked well enough for my two ball loads and should work for 3 ball loads. But my gun is cylinder bore so no choke. Not sure paper wrap would be very choke friendly.. for a tight choke anyway.

I made paper tubes then put them in the wads, added balls then slit the paper.

Also not sure why James didn't use a wrap instead of tight choke but of course it would take a bunch of testing to sort out results even if it worked and I'm sure there are more than one way to get good results. James was generous enough to share so that's what we use.

The Siarm 2 and 3 balL wads would save a lot of hassle:

http://www.siarm.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_20_164_60&products_id=2038

They run about $4.40 US for 10 so not cheap but how many of these rounds is a guy going to shoot in a day? And at $.44 each not that bad if you're casting your own balls. Don't see which size balls these take though.

Longbow

[Drakehammer]

I do have mylar, but that added thickness may also require less choke, and I'll be chasing my tail again. I'll try a few combos this weekend. I did have some cork, so I can try that or I can use a leather disk until I get some fiber wads. I have a ton of dense veg tan leather and the perfect punch to make a filler under the ball. It is flexible and tough.
With .575 balls, the added thickness is what you need to center and align the balls.

Dense veg tan leather. I know a little about that. Used to do quite a bit with tannin extracts from the mimosa, acacia and quebracho trees. Some of the softest leather ever.


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[5Shot]

Did a little digging and I was surprised to see this group from Mr. Gates using a Trulock 0.660" Choke. This is back before he switched to the Orange Wads (I believe), as he states the wad petals are 0.030" and the ball at 0.600".

241272

[Drakehammer]

20 inch slug barrel with chokes??? 30 yards. Hmmmm.
If those are 60 cal, thats more than 1.25” center to center.


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[5Shot]

20 inch slug barrel with chokes??? 30 yards. Hmmmm.
If those are 60 cal, thats more than 1.25” center to center.


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Now that you mention it, it is definitely more than 1.25"...maybe 1.25" BETWEEN the balls. Barrel is Remington's smooth bore slug barrel with sights. Not sure why they call it a slugger, but they do.

ETA: Remington actually referred to it as a "Deer" barrel.

[Drakehammer]

Now that you mention it, it is definitely more than 1.25"...maybe 1.25" BETWEEN the balls. Barrel is Remington's smooth bore slug barrel with sights. Not sure why they call it a slugger, but they do.

ETA: Remington actually referred to it as a "Deer" barrel.

With chokes. Interesting.


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[5Shot]

It has now been discontinued, but was available for a long time. Smooth bore, rifle sights and Remchoke...

[5Shot]

My wads (or more correctly...the pieces) looked just like these:

241299

[Drakehammer]

My wads (or more correctly...the pieces) looked just like these:

241299

Holy Smokes!

Pm sent with my phone #. Call me if you’d like to chat. I’m interested in this.


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