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Lethemgo
03-04-2019, 09:34 PM
I have a Swedish rolling block in 50-70 i shoot blackpowder in. A Shiloh 45-70 have some black loaded but haven't made it to the range yet. Just got my Shiloh 45-100 and waiting for cases but just ordered yesterday. Was really thinking of trying some paper patching but after looking at the cost of molds i might be out. I know....but there are a lot of guys on here that cost is not an issue. Can you patch other boolits or does that even make since to do it. Probably best to just play with loads first then maybe one day try out this art. The Shilohs cost me the sale of quite a few of my other guns I should just enjoy them anyway I can.

Don McDowell
03-04-2019, 10:00 PM
Paper patch bullet moulds don't cost any more than grease groove bullet moulds. And a roll of patching paper is way cheaper than a pound of lube, and will cover a bunch more bullets.

country gent
03-04-2019, 10:08 PM
Accurate and Noe make PP moulds. Old west ( Bernie Rowels ) makes moulds that are very good and not to costly. Also put a want to buy in swapping and selling for mould. Another route that can be done is to make your own. If you have a drill press. PP moulds have no grooves so a drill form ground to bullet shape and slightly undersized will cut the cavity for a flat based PP mould.
Buy a new or used lee mould smaller than your bullet, Here a 375 caliber or so rifle mould ( you want the taller rifle blocks) but a drill around .437 and with a bench grinder form grind the drill to the nose shape desired. If you buy some bullets to test a simple card board form of the nose will allow you to hand grind a good nose on the drill. then relieve it to a cutting edge. Run this into the existing cavity to depth. Cavity will be under sized at this point. Depending on job you do on drill hole will be .438-.440. Cast some good slugs and lapp the cavity up to .442 test a wrapped bullet in bore and maybe shoot a few at this point. if you need to lapp out another .001-.002 .
I can walk you thru the drill grinding and such in detail if you want just PM me

Lethemgo
03-05-2019, 06:55 AM
Now that sounds great country gent. I thought about listing in the swaping and selling but not making a mould. Now you got me going, I'll start with finding the right lee mould and make one. I'll start with the 45 because after this week I'll have 2 45-70 to put them through. Any idea a good candidate for a lee mould that .309-230-5R looks like the longest one or the DC 379-250-RF for my 38-55 I just sold. Plus it never worked in rifle very good. Thanks now you got me thinking I'll have to read through those instructions again. I messaged randy wright yesterday and he answered me back about buying his book so I'll send him some money, at least i hear he's a good source for information.

rfd
03-05-2019, 07:23 AM
it's all about a proper sized bullet or slick that'll patch up as a bore rider.

Don McDowell
03-05-2019, 09:57 AM
Unless you just really have to make your own, why not just get a mould from Accurate moulds? He has quite a selection of good designs already, and delivers in a short time.

Lead pot
03-05-2019, 10:16 AM
Your not going to get a mould block from Lee and recut it that will work or even if they would cut a special order that will be satisfactory. You will end up getting a mould made by Tom at Accurate Moulds or Buffalo Arms down the road to get that rifle up to it's full potential.
Talk to a shooter that is serious competitor that shoots PP for guidance. Here on the internet you will get replies from some I think never loaded or even shot a PP bullet with a black powder load from their replies I have seen.
Buy right the first time so you don't get discouraged down the road and give it up.

rfd
03-05-2019, 10:21 AM
tom's accuratemolds are excellent values and highly recommended.

Lethemgo
03-05-2019, 10:54 AM
Haha that's one of the things I say that this guy probably doesn't even shoot, but what he says is the best advice amd the gospel! Right Hopefully i can run into someone and pick there brain on this subject but i don't know anyone here in northern California who does paper patching. Sure after I start I'll find someone. There is a long range range in Sacramento area been wanting to go there but want at least have a little shooting time under my belt before walking in there.
Like i was just tell rfd there a so many great guys on here....So many good guys on this forum the only problem I have with it is I can set down and have a cup of coffee and shoot the bull with them. Or hit the range for some gun time. Unfortunately some pf the ones who live closer to me seem to not want that. Sad cause I'm a rather nice guy I think

Lead pot
03-05-2019, 11:23 AM
tom's accuratemolds are excellent values and highly recommended.

Yes they are. I just wish he would program his CNC to make moulds without a flat Meplat.

Gunlaker
03-05-2019, 11:25 AM
You will find that the stuff in Randy's book will get you shooting well pretty much right off the bat. His book focuses on lube cookies rather than shooting without them, but it will get you started and shooting decent groups.

I understand the $$$ thing, but work out how much lead you can buy for the price of a Buffalo Arms PP mold and you'll see that the mold cost is a lot less than the lead and powder you'll buy. I'm up in Canada and we pay more for everything, but my PP rounds probably cost around $0.75 a piece to shoot. That's assuming that the brass lasts forever, which it pretty much will. At that price you'll cover the mold price pretty quickly.

Also, every now and then you might find a used PP mold that will do the trick. The Accurate molds seem to be a little cheaper. I've never used them but have heard nothing but good things about them.

Like I said, Randy's book will get you going as well as any internet advice. The only thing I'd add are that how you wipe the bore between shots matters a lot. Bore condition is much more important than with grease grooved bullets. You can't get the bore too clean or too dry between shots.

I'm sure you'll have a pile of fun. When I got my first .45-110 I had about 6 weeks of frustration getting it to shoot well. I got some advice from a few people here, Dean Becker, Don, Kurt ( Lead Pot ), and Rick Mulhern ( who doesn't post here anymore I think ). It helped tremendously. On the Shiloh forum read what Kenny Wasserburger has done with the Shiloh .45-110 rifles. He has been shooting them for years in competition with patched bullets and shoots master class scores. He's shared tons of information about how he puts his rounds together. He's also a really nice guy.

Chris.

rfd
03-05-2019, 11:44 AM
Yes they are. I just wish he would program his CNC to make moulds without a flat Meplat.

now that would be the cat's meow. i've asked him a few times over the years but he's dead against it.

Don McDowell
03-05-2019, 12:05 PM
Haha that's one of the things I say that this guy probably doesn't even shoot, but what he says is the best advice amd the gospel! Right Hopefully i can run into someone and pick there brain on this subject but i don't know anyone here in northern California who does paper patching. Sure after I start I'll find someone. There is a long range range in Sacramento area been wanting to go there but want at least have a little shooting time under my belt before walking in there.
Like i was just tell rfd there a so many great guys on here....So many good guys on this forum the only problem I have with it is I can set down and have a cup of coffee and shoot the bull with them. Or hit the range for some gun time. Unfortunately some pf the ones who live closer to me seem to not want that. Sad cause I'm a rather nice guy I think
Get in touch with Bent Ramrod, he's from your area, and knows a good bit about actually shooting patched.

Lead pot
03-05-2019, 12:11 PM
now that would be the cat's meow. i've asked him a few times over the years but he's dead against it.

Yup I have also. There is nothing wrong with a flat point they will hit what you aim at even the 46-467-L that I had him make for me that is a larger diameter of the Lyman 121 PH reproduction for my Marlin lever rifle will reach the 1K in fine shape with another twist of the idiot screw on top of my tang sight. :)
I don't shoot the GG in my Sharps or CPA's but I do in all of my lever rifles and they require a flat point except my 99 savage. I have .44 pistol bullets I had Tom make with two cavity in brass and iron blocks that will drop identical bullets to the gnat weight and diameters and I have yet to get a mould from him that will have a bullet stick when I part the blocks.
When Walt at NEI was still with us also made some great custom moulds for me but I haven't had NEI make any for me since his passing so I can't comment on what they are like now, but they had a good selection the last time I looked. I will say this; Walt made a exact reproduction of the great Ideal .45 postel bullet of any of the custom mould makers now making moulds. If I was to have just one GG mould it would be the old Ideal postel bullet.

Yellowhouse
03-05-2019, 02:10 PM
Yes they are. I just wish he would program his CNC to make moulds without a flat Meplat.

I'll second that. Otherwise great value and you can get an aluminum mold for about 80 bucks!

Red River Rick
03-05-2019, 02:14 PM
Yes they are. I just wish he would program his CNC to make moulds without a flat Meplat.

Programing has nothing to do with it....................it's probably due to tooling restrictions.

FWIW
RRR

Lead pot
03-05-2019, 04:32 PM
Rick.

I heard that you were under the weather and been away from making moulds. I hope all is well now on your end.
Kurt

Randy Bohannon
03-07-2019, 02:24 AM
Letemgo How close are you to Sacramento ? Perhaps the best shooting facility in CA is Sacramento Shooting Facility in Sloughouse CA. On Meiss RD. Very worthwhile day trip if reasonable.
There are silhouette black powder shooters on that range everyday, matches once a month on Saturdays, it has been a number of years since I have shot silhouette there.However I was just there in December and it’s better than ever, just a thought.

R. Dupraz
03-07-2019, 10:16 AM
I will second the replies from both "Lead Pot" and "D. Mc Dowel".

Back when I decided to try PP in my Shiloh 45x2.4 Sharps, I ordered a 540 grain PP mold and patching paper from Buffalo Arms. And while they are not the only source out there for molds, this bullet will outshoot my other GG bullets most every time, when patched to bore. Even at extended ranges.

In addition, if there is one lesson that I have finally learned after 74 years on this earth, it is, "it's better to spend your money only once and get the right stuff the first time that to ultimately spend it twice before you do. Even if you have to wait a while.

R.

Yellowhouse
03-07-2019, 11:56 AM
I will second the replies from both "Lead Pot" and "D. Mc Dowel".



In addition, if there is one lesson that I have finally learned after 74 years on this earth, it is, "it's better to spend your money only once and get the right stuff the first time that to ultimately spend it twice before you do. Even if you have to wait a while.

R.

Then we couldn't be mold collectors.

Lead pot
03-07-2019, 12:06 PM
:-) I been shooting these shoulder pushers for over 60 years and I have a drawer full of moulds [smilie=l: