Stub job barrel question

[Wolfer]

I have an H&R 410 that I bought an extra barrel for. I want to do a stub job in 45 colt. Green Mtn has gunsmith blanks very reasonably priced. Their marked 45 ACP, 1/16 twist.
Is there any reason I can’t use these for 45 colt? I shoot the same boolits now out of both 45 ACP and 45 Colt.
Am I missing something?

[John Taylor]

Normally for a rifle the twist is a bit slower but that barrel will work fine.

[Wolfer]

Thanks John, the barrel they listed for a 45 colt was a 1/20 but was considerable more money.

[pietro]

I have an H&R 410 that I bought an extra barrel for.

I want to do a stub job in 45 colt.

Am I missing something ?





IMO, you're missing that the H&R .410 action (all smoothbores, actually) were AFAIK made on the cast SB-1 frame, which is inadequate for rile chambering pressures (H&R used the stronger SB-2 frame for those cartridges).

.

[eric123]

I believe 44 and 357's came from the factory on SB-1 frames, so a 45 Colt at proper pressures will be good to go...

[nekshot]

I would do it and never look back. I stay with pistol cartridges on these type actions and yield more fun then a man ought have legally.

[Texas by God]

Are you going to do a threaded monobloc style?

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[Tackleberry41]

Pretty sure thats the barrel I bought to put in a Rossi stub. Makes a handy little carbine.

[Wolfer]

Threaded monobloc style. No I’m going to cut the barrel just ahead of the forend mounting screw. Bore the stup out to whatever. Turn the barrel down slightly smaller than whatever. JB weld it in place and take a light cut on the original barrel and take my taper on down. This barrel I bought is pretty heavy. Just under an inch just ahead of the forend screw.

[Texas by God]

This is just a suggestion but I think you can get there with less work by trading one of your .410 barrels for a 20 or 12 gauge. No boring involved that way. I did a 44WCF on a 12 gauge that way and it worked well. There's a thread on it and other stubs in the barrel works sub forum.

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[John Taylor]

I usually make a new lug and ejector so the old barrel can still be used for a two barrel setup. Problem is that not every one has access to a machine shop to do their own that way. Going to a 45 caliber on a 410 barrel means the old barrel will need to be bored out and may not have enough wall thickness to hold the forearm attachment. Going this way I would cut the old barrel a little past the lug, bore it out and thread it for the new barrel. JB weld will hold a liner but may not be good enough for a short piece. Threading and loctite will insure it does not move.

[nekshot]

the 410 should keep it looking real nice in the fatso dept. My first barrel insert I took out and cut the shotgun barrel beyond chamber and the profile of the gun I like much better.

[country gent]

At work for epoxy joints we usually did 1 of 2 things. on the biss or tenon we would cut a shallow coarse "thread" The cutter was 90* included point with a small radius on the point usually .010 deep on a side. Or we put a coarse shallow knurl down it again about .010-.015 deep. this helped carry epoxy in and form a complete joint with little air spaces and a mechanical lock for the epoxy.

[Wolfer]

My original barrel, which I’ll keep as a 410 is a slim profile. The barrel I plan to bore measures .912 @ 8” from the breech. I think this gives me plenty of meat for a 9/16 or 5/8” bore. I felt like 8” of epoxy would hold quite a bit but I can make it considerable longer if y’all think I need to.

I believe inside threading is beyond me and my 1894 vintage machines capabilities. Perhaps mine more than the machines.

This switch barrel gun will require different forearms due to the size difference in the barrels.

[Jedman]

Wolfer, Your plan is fine. I had a 410 like you are describing where the barrel was quite thick thru the forend then tapered quickly to a normal skinny 410 size. You will have plenty of area for the epoxy to make a strong bond. I have used the Green Mountain 45 cal. "Raw gunsmith" blanks to make several 45 ACP barrels and one in 45 Colt. The rifling twist is fine for either.
Sounds like you have a antique lathe and not knowing what attachments you have for doing the final light cut from the barrel / stub joint to the muzzle it will be challenging.

Post some pictures of your progress if possible, we all like these projects !

Jedman

[country gent]

Only cut the shallow thread on the tennon of the barrel then just enough to help carry the epoxy thru the joint and get a good bonding.

[justashooter]

i would rather solder than epoxy, but that's just me. even plumber's solder is better than epoxy.

[Texas by God]

i would rather solder than epoxy, but that's just me. even plumber's solder is better than epoxy.Maybe so, maybe not- but no reblueing is necessary with epoxy and it is stronger than needed for the job.

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[Wolfer]

My lathe is a 1894 Porter machine works. He designed this lathe in 1894. In 1898 he went into business with his son in law and the machines had a different name. Can’t remember what. The lathes were still the same just branded differently.
So mine was made sometime after 1894 but before 1899. I don’t have the spindle that went in the ceiling. Someone has made a bracket above it with an electric motor and a model A transmission. I have 3 forward speeds and 1 reverse.
I have all the change gears and the tool holder is the lantern style. The babbet bearings are worn but as long as I make light cuts I’d does a decent job. When something has to be precise I take the last bit with sandpaper. When contouring a barrel I finish between centers with a 4-1/2” side grinder and sanding disc.

I have a 4 jaw chuck and a homemade steady rest.

I don’t have any trouble cutting outside threads. Ive never tried inside threads and I believe I could for a short distance of an inch or so. But not 8/10”.

I’m sure a machinist ( which I am not ) could do a lot more with this antique than I can. I doubt it would be as much fun for them as it is for me.

[Jedman]

Sounds like a neat old lathe. I once owned a early South Bend that had flat leather belts and a drive assembly that someone built it too had worn babbet headstock bearings but could still do accurate work. I'll bet if this is your first stub project it wount be your last as it is addictive.

Jedman

[Wolfer]

I suspect your right about that.

[JSnover]

I don’t have any trouble cutting outside threads. Ive never tried inside threads and I believe I could for a short distance of an inch or so. But not 8/10”.



Give it some more thought. We're not talking about a properly made, load-bearing thread, just roughing the surface for a stronger joint. If you've ever bored to a shoulder you shouldn't have any trouble with this.

[country gent]

The shallow coarse thread helps to carry epoxy into the joint and gives a mechanical lock to it. It only needs to be .010-.015 deep on a side and as coarse as possible. A threading tool works or a narrow grooving tool works to cut the spiral down the tenon. Don't think thread but oils groove in a bushing or shaft. This groove will help carry epoxy into the joint and make a100% bond.

[Wolfer]

I’m sure there have been tests ran on epoxy strength.

I’m of the opinion that if you bored a hole in a block of steel and didn’t polish it out. Just leave the drill marks in. Then turn a shaft a few thousands smaller. Don’t polish it either but leave as rough as possible. Say .010 more or less. After curing good put it in a press and press it out.

I believe if that hole of say 5/8” by 6” deep will take a considerable amount of pressure to push it out.
I could be wrong, I often am.

[John Taylor]

I have done a few doubles and found that a nut can be made to fit the chamber of a shotgun barrel, the barrel turned down to fit the bore and threaded for the chamber nut. The nut is left long so it can be tightened and then cut off. The one I'm working on now is a 16 gauge being made into an 8X72R. The barrels are contoured to match the shotgun barrel where they are cut off and after polishing it is hard to see where the joint is. This makes a clean and strong attachment. A little loctite keeps things from coming loose.

[GhostHawk]

I have a 9mm stubb job that was done exactly as John Taylor describes above.

It is a 9mm, I was able to pick it up fairly inexpensively as it had slipped when he was drilling his scope holes and shot aprox 18" to 2' to the left of where sighted at 25 yards.

I knew this going in, bought it, had a gunsmith move the scope base 3/8ths an inch forward and drill and tap new holes which also covered the old ones.

Shoots like a dream out to 100, never tried further.

On mine the nut was cut down, then welded so it could not work loose and screw thing up. Makes a nice looking barrel IMO. And for 200$ + 60$ to get the scope base fixed I'm happy as all get out with it.

[woodbutcher]

:?: Just a thought here.And maybe Mr Taylor could verify.I would think that a good epoxy to secure the barrel would possibly be Brownells AcraGlas of one flavor or another.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[John Taylor]

:?: Just a thought here.And maybe Mr Taylor could verify.I would think that a good epoxy to secure the barrel would possibly be Brownells AcraGlas of one flavor or another.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

I use 262 Loctite for liners. Never had one come loose and a bit of a pain if you install the wrong liner and have to remove it ( don't ask).

[woodbutcher]

[smilie=b: Hmmmmmmmmmm.Yeah,that would be a real problem.Thanks for your reply.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo