RB twist?

[Mr Peabody]

I'm sending a man my barrel to have it bored out to .54. I want a patched round ball gun, what twist would work properly in a 24 inch barrel?

[rfd]

why so short a barrel? a brush gun for hunting?

[Edward]

I'm sending a man my barrel to have it bored out to .54. I want a patched round ball gun, what twist would work properly in a 24 inch barrel?

Ask the man doing the work ,I trust he"s good at what he does/Ed

[Mr Peabody]

why so short a barrel? a brush gun for hunting?
T/C made it that way, and yes it's a dandy in the timber

[pietro]

I'm sending a man my barrel to have it bored out to .54. I want a patched round ball gun, what twist would work properly in a 24 inch barrel?


Twist determines PRB accuracy results, not barrel length - so there's little difference between a 24" bbl & a 32" bbl.

Dedicated RB twist rates can vary from 1-60" to 1:70"

A 1-48" twist, while not the best in accuracy for either, is a compromise that will allow "adequate" accuracy for both a PRB or a conical.

Sabot loads, & some conicals, perform best with a steeper twist of around 1-22" to 1: 28".


.

[hylander]

I just sent my T/C Hawken barrel to Mr. Hoyt for a rebore to .54
It will be 1:60 for PRB only.
Mine is 28", but I would do the same with a 24"

[Mr Peabody]

Thanks Hylander, my thoughts too.

[indian joe]

Thanks Hylander, my thoughts too.

Same again 1:60 to 1:70 - ideal for round ball - speciallty for hunting - can load higher velocity with slower twist.

[OverMax]

Is it a White Mtn carbine your referring to? I own one in 54 cal having 1-48 twist. When shooting P/ball I found my rifle rather hard to sight-in to 50 yards. {just couldn't find its sweet spot in >Charges} . Sadly I haven't spent much time with it since. Although if and when I do take it afield. The little light weight 54 would likely be a dandy close range deer thump-er.

I certainly wish you luck turning your rifle into a dedicated P/ball shooter. As far as twist rate for accurate ball shooting.> Indain Joe knows.

[Mr Peabody]

OverMax, no though I have one of those. It's a High Plains Sporter. Very much like the T/C New Englander but with a curved pistol grip instead of the straight one.It loves Maxi's but not so much the round ball.

[bedbugbilly]

1:60 - 1:70 - if it were mine, I would go with the 1:60 for a dedicated RB barrel - but with that in mind, I would also discuss it with the people who are going to freshen the bore for you and see what they suggest/usually do.

Over the years, I have had the opportunity to work on a number of original rifles and the majority of them fell into the 1:60 - 1:70 twist rate with most of them closer to the 1:60 rate. It didn't seem to make a difference if it was a "manufactured" barrel - i.e. where the maker bought the barrel and lock for assembly - or for those barrels that were unmarked and obviously hand made and rifled - they all seemed to be within that range.

I bought an old barrel probably twenty five years ago from a guy at a gun show. It was hand-made - 7/8" octagon X 43" in length. The bore measured out at about a .47 caliber and the original rifling index marks were punched not he muzzle. The barrel started out on a flintlock long rifle and form he lugs and dovetails on the bottom side, it had been on at least three rifles in its lifetime. I don't recall the maker's name but it was engraved on the top flat. Anyway - I checked the rate of twist on it and it came out as close as I could figure to 1:63. I figured that it was probably from the 1775-1800 era. The breedh plug was missing but it had the typical very coarse threads found on most early barrels - at some point - had been converted to drum and nipple. I couldn't find anything on the name engraved (not stamped) on the top flat. I figured that the barrel had been "fresher" at least once by following the original rifling (i.e. not re-bored/re-rifled). Obviously a "round ball barrel". I ended up selling it to a private collector of original long rifles who lived in Virginia IIRC.

Is the barrel you're having re-bored the same one that had the rough spots that needed to be lapped?

Good luck with your project - you'll enjoy your "new barrel" when you get it back!

Jim

[waksupi]

I like 1-66.

[indian joe]

I like 1-66.

yes..

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

leave it up to the guy doing the work, he will know whats best.

[indian joe]

leave it up to the guy doing the work, he will know whats best.

NO .....that way you get what he thinks is best - that may not be what you want - round ball only for hunting is not the nomal these days - tell him what you want and make sure you get it.

[hylander]

round ball only for hunting is not the nomal these days

I'm glad I'm not normal :mrgreen:

[indian joe]

I'm glad I'm not normal :mrgreen:

There a few of us un-normal blokes left yet!!
one of my favoutrite hunting guns is a CVA 54 round ball gun - built it up from bits n pieces - with a load in its still a tad under 7 pounds - nice to tote around - and you can load it so's it bites at both ends - 120 grains of FFg under a soft lead ball ----- shoots about three inch high at 50 to three inch low at 130 yards.

Thats a 1:66 twist and will shoot just about any load accurate from 60 grain plinker to full throttle

[waksupi]

NO .....that way you get what he thinks is best - that may not be what you want - round ball only for hunting is not the nomal these days - tell him what you want and make sure you get it.

That is the truth. I argued with Lilja to cut a barrel to my specs, explaining I shoot cast bullets. He wasn't listening about required barrel twist for what I needed, so I went to Bauska. No problem, Too bad they are gone.

[Good Cheer]

Depends on who the guy is and whether you already know what he's a'gonna do.

[TNsailorman]

I have a .50 RB rifle and it is 1-66" and I have won a number of local matches with it over the years. I like longer barrels because I shoot better with the longer sight plane. Works for me, james

[OverMax]

Browsing a bit tonight OP. Re-reading my & fellow members comments.

Curious. Does anyone know the {optimal barrel length} for the twist rate of 1-66 or 1-70? i.e. (utmost powder performance and accuracy achieved)

If caliber & ball size matters? ~ 54 cal around 230 grain in weight.

[indian joe]

Depends on who the guy is and whether you already know what he's a'gonna do.

Comes down to "who'se runnin this show"
Tell the guy what YOU want ( a dedicated round ball hunting barrel) - he can either do it right OR say No, go away, dont want yr money, nobody is any the worse
Or pay hundreds of dollars for what HE thinks you need and could end up with a good quality compromise twist barrel - that does the job half a$$
- you didnt get what you wanted because the other guy thought he knew better - but you cant complain because there is nothing wrong quality wise with the work.

[indian joe]

Browsing a bit tonight OP. Re-reading my & fellow members comments.

Curious. Does anyone know the {optimal barrel length} for the twist rate of 1-66 or 1-70? i.e. (utmost powder performance and accuracy achieved)

If caliber & ball size matters? ~ 54 cal around 230 grain in weight.

opinion -
optimal barrel length should be independant of twist rate in rifles?

For a hunting rifle 28 inch is quite short enough - 36 inch is plenty long enough (unless you are creating a period correct flinter - even then more than 36inch would be questionable in a heavy calibre - 54 and up)

Can load FFF powder in the shorter barrels to hasten the burn rate a bit

There is a point of diminishing returns with blackpowder - I suggest that is about at 120 grains of FF goex in a 28 inch tube 54 cal . more than that will do very little other than make more smoke and noise and kick harder. Chronograph testing will show the way.

[bob208]

in a 28 inch barrel 120 gr. is way too much powder cut it back to a max. load of 70 gr. anything over that is just making fouling and putting unburned powder on the ground. for a barrel as short as was asked about 1-48 or 1-52 would do just fine

[indian joe]

in a 28 inch barrel 120 gr. is way too much powder cut it back to a max. load of 70 gr. anything over that is just making fouling and putting unburned powder on the ground. for a barrel as short as was asked about 1-48 or 1-52 would do just fine

We were talking hunting loads not plinkers - I thought the extra couple hundred FPS was worthwhile - as luck (or not) would have it my CVA was super accurate with the same load so I used it on the range too - that used to get peoples attention - but I carted a few trophys home with it so they were not laughing down at me.

[indian joe]

in a 28 inch barrel 120 gr. is way too much powder cut it back to a max. load of 70 gr. anything over that is just making fouling and putting unburned powder on the ground. for a barrel as short as was asked about 1-48 or 1-52 would do just fine

Bob
I went back and re read the OP - hes talkin 24"barrel - for straight round ball I reckon he will still do better with a 66 twist - but he likely get better results switching to FFF powder and coming back to your 70 or even 60 grains charge

[bob208]

I am basing my statements on what I learned when working with bob hoyt.

[indian joe]

I am basing my statements on what I learned when working with bob hoyt.

48 twist is a good compromise - can get them to shoot minies and still do a round ball ok (my 45 cal flnter is a 48 twist shallow rifling and its a fine accurate RB barrel so long as I keep it 50 grains of FFF or under - but load 60 grains and ya might just as well throw rocks)

- they just can be more finickity if ya push em hard - also my experience is over the counter commerial barrels - most of those in 48twist are bored with shallower rifling than you see in the slower twist - that may be the difference as much as twist rate?

However that old slow twist for round ball idea has been around a long time and I believe its well proven -
Bob Hoyt is a master and he can likely make a barrel that runs counter to the accepted wisdom - dont prove the wisdom wrong - just proves he is a better barrel maker than most

[LAGS]

After I get moved to my new house, I am planning to send my TC .56 SB Renegade barrel to Mr. Hoyt and have it bored out to .62 Rifled for a RB.
Since The only projectile I can find in .62 is a Lyman .610 RB mold.
I will talk to Mr. Hoyt and see what twist he recommends.
But I am thinking somewhere in the 1:66 line .
But then, Friends are telling me to leave the barrel alone because it is not that common of a barrel in SB.
But I have not been able to find the proper mold to fit the barrel in.56 cal.
Accuracy is fair at best with Thick Patches and .54 cal round Balls, or balls shot with a 28 ga shotgun wads, and at very close ranges.
Any recommendations from any of the other members ?

[Edward]

After I get moved to my new house, I am planning to send my TC .56 SB Renegade barrel to Mr. Hoyt and have it bored out to .62 Rifled for a RB.
Since The only projectile I can find in .62 is a Lyman .610 RB mold.
I will talk to Mr. Hoyt and see what twist he recommends.
But I am thinking somewhere in the 1:66 line .
But then, Friends are telling me to leave the barrel alone because it is not that common of a barrel in SB.
But I have not been able to find the proper mold to fit the barrel in.56 cal.
Accuracy is fair at best with Thick Patches and .54 cal round Balls, or balls shot with a 28 ga shotgun wads, and at very close ranges.
Any recommendations from any of the other members ?
Yup I took a new never fired SB barrel and sent it to Bob Hoyt and it came back a 1-66 twist .610 bore and I shoot a Lee .600 RB . Lots of lead /lots of fun :bigsmyl2:

[LAGS]

Thank you Edward.
I was figuring on a .620 bore , meaning I would have to use a .610 RB meant for a 16 ga . shotgun.

So wouldn't a .610 bore be classified as a 61 caliber ?
I think that a .600 RB is a little more common.
Back to the research.
I would love to have a short barreled rifle , ( like .24" ) in a fast twist to shoot a slug.
But projectiles or molds in that caliber are not to be found.

[Edward]

Thank you Edward.
I was figuring on a .620 bore , meaning I would have to use a .610 RB meant for a 16 ga . shotgun.

So wouldn't a .610 bore be classified as a 61 caliber ?
I think that a .600 RB is a little more common.
Back to the research.
I would love to have a short barreled rifle , ( like .24" ) in a fast twist to shoot a slug.
But projectiles or molds in that caliber are not to be found.

I told Bob to give me a 610 bore as it allows use of a $25.00 Lee 600 mold which drops@ 597 with( pure ?)and I could use .024-30 patch Mattress ticking . It"s working well for me and targets and squirrel can"t tell the difference between 610 and 620 /Ed

[indian joe]

I told Bob to give me a 610 bore as it allows use of a $25.00 Lee 600 mold which drops@ 597 with( pure ?)and I could use .024-30 patch Mattress ticking . It"s working well for me and targets and squirrel can"t tell the difference between 610 and 620 /Ed

So whos been feeding steroids to yr squirrels?? I thought they were little soft skin dudes ? [smilie=f:

[LAGS]

Edward,
I like your thinking.
But the cost of the mold is not of concern to me.
It is more the availabity of molds and other stuff like Wads or cleaning equipment, like it is with the .550 mold for the .56 SB that I cant find now.
I am not sure that this barrel can be bored out to as far as .69 that would fit many available slugs for a faster twist barrel.
I like BIG calibers.
You never know when I may run into an Angry Squirrel

[nicholst55]

After I get moved to my new house, I am planning to send my TC .56 SB Renegade barrel to Mr. Hoyt and have it bored out to .62 Rifled for a RB.
Since The only projectile I can find in .62 is a Lyman .610 RB mold.
I will talk to Mr. Hoyt and see what twist he recommends.
But I am thinking somewhere in the 1:66 line .
But then, Friends are telling me to leave the barrel alone because it is not that common of a barrel in SB.
But I have not been able to find the proper mold to fit the barrel in.56 cal.
Accuracy is fair at best with Thick Patches and .54 cal round Balls, or balls shot with a 28 ga shotgun wads, and at very close ranges.
Any recommendations from any of the other members ?

Dixie sells a .615" round ball mold. Not sure about Track. RCBS and Lyman both make a .610" RB mold, as well; BACO lists both.

[hylander]

Just got my Hawken barrel back from Robert.
Bored to .54 with 1:60 twist, .012 round bottom grooves.
Range report soon

[Edward]

So whos been feeding steroids to yr squirrels?? I thought they were little soft skin dudes ? [smilie=f:

Aggressive critters when running in packs ,you need extreme penetration as the boolit /ball must travel lengthwise thru multiple squirls ! Failure could be catastrophic :bigsmyl2:

[waksupi]

After I get moved to my new house, I am planning to send my TC .56 SB Renegade barrel to Mr. Hoyt and have it bored out to .62 Rifled for a RB.
Since The only projectile I can find in .62 is a Lyman .610 RB mold.
I will talk to Mr. Hoyt and see what twist he recommends.
But I am thinking somewhere in the 1:66 line .
But then, Friends are telling me to leave the barrel alone because it is not that common of a barrel in SB.
But I have not been able to find the proper mold to fit the barrel in.56 cal.
Accuracy is fair at best with Thick Patches and .54 cal round Balls, or balls shot with a 28 ga shotgun wads, and at very close ranges.
Any recommendations from any of the other members ?

Jeff Tanner Molds is still in business. His son is making the molds now. They will cut any diameter.

[LAGS]

Thank you for your input on the molds.
I do know I can get a Custom mold in any size that I want.
But I would like to stay with a Standard Caliber just in case I ever decide to sell the rifle, or there is a performance problem in the standard caliber.
That gives me room to Tweek the loading to make things better. like Mold Size and such.
It is best if you have a Base Line for Wildcat calibers or Custom Rifles

[arcticap]

Did you know that Track of the Wolf sells .550 cast balls for the .56 smoothie?--->>> https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search.aspx/3?search=round%20balls

They should be able to hold you over until you can find a mold.
And any money saved by switching to standard ammo. will be spent on rifling the barrel.
It's considered a plus that shot loads can be fired from the .56 smooth rifle barrel.
They can shoot as good as nearly any other rifle out to at least .50 yards with the right load, such as a .015 patch and 80-90 grains of powder.

[Edward]

My eyes are not great but my brand new never fired 56 TC smoothy made squirrels giggle ,When Bob Hoyt sent it back as a 62 even the turkeys quit gobbling and thanksgiving got more protein /just sayin Ed

[Good Cheer]

In the toy box there's an old .56 Renegade barrel from a swap around deal many years ago. Sending it to Mr. Hoyt for a bore suitable for minies and round ball just seems like the thing a man oughta do. Hmm, I don't have a piece yet with the progressive depth five groove rifling as for British style minies.