Need a Better Powder Measure!!!

[Javelin Dan]

I’ve been handloading for over 4 years now and currently load for 32 ACP, 32 S&W long, 32 H&R magnum, 9mm, and 38 Special (and soon 357 magnum). I do it all the old-school way using a single stage press and by weighing in every charge. All along, I have been using the Lee’s Auto-drum powder measure that came with my original kit, but I think our relationship is just about over. In fact, I’m tempted to fill it with Bullseye and light a match…

You’d think I would struggle with the mouse loads and I do. My Lyman’s 49th calls for between 1.7 gr. and 2.5 gr, of Bullseye for a 71 gr. bullet (my loads for different guns range between 2.0gr. And 2.4 gr.), and I sometimes have to drop a charge 3-4 times before my Frankford Arsenal digital scale shows the desired weight, but then that stinkin’ Auto-Drum might throw 4 or 5 correct charges in a row, so I’ve been living with it.

But tonight, I was just trying to throw a simple 4.4 grains of Bullseye into my 38 Special cases and it took me about and hour and a half to charge 30 cases! I could creep up on 4.3 gr. pretty easily, but trying to delicately adjust the dial to coax just a little more out would suddenly spike my weight to 4.5 or well above. I’ve seen this before. I can sometimes dial in a weight that it likes to throw for some reason, and it will be pretty accurate all night. Then just try to dial in another 1/10th grain and I pull my hair out the rest of the evening. ARRRGGHH!!! [smilie=b:

Now I’m retired and not a rich man, so season any advice accordingly. But I am now on the hunt for a powder measure that is both affordable and more accurate than this sling-and-stone arrangement I’m using now. Any suggestions?

[JBinMN]

I am going to suggest the RCBS Uni-FLow.

This link is from one of the CB.GL Forum sponsors, but shop around... ;) :
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/000449010/uniflow-powder-measure

Of course , like most topics that ask for "opinions", you are going to get a lot of different ones.

The Lyman#55 is a good one, but I am not sure it is available new.
ETA: apparently they are, same source as above: https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/000157767783/55-powder-measure

Some really like the Lee Perfect Powder Measure on occasion.( I have one, but , as said, IMO, the RCBS one is better. ;) )
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690058/perfect-powder-measure

Or, the "Deluxe" one from Lee:
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690699/deluxe-perfect-powder-measure

There is the LEE Auto drum & the Auto disk, and I don't have one & can't give it an up or down thumb or even a , "yeah, its' OK".

You'll have to start getting your own links now... ;)



So on & so forth, there will be a lot of suggestions for different ones to get &, you will be told that they all "are the best thing going today!".

Keep that in mind, since your question lends itself to such replies...

I have never ever heard anyone say that the RCBS Uni Flow powder measure does not hold up, nor do the job with reasonable &/or even outstanding results, over a wide range of powder types( spherical, extruded,flake,etc.), as long as it is kept static free & cleaned after each use, as well as not leaving powders in it for extended periods( Like one should not do to any P. Measure.), it should last years/decades. ( Mine is almost 35+ years old, but it has not seen use "every year", like other folks Uniflows s have, but many folks swear by them. ;) )

The end answer then, as obvious a s it is, is that while YMMV & you will have other suggestions, I think that for, when I last looked, about 89-90 frogskins each plus shipping when NOT on sale, you will get your $$ worth, if ya do decide to get one.

I'm done.. Who is next?
;)

[Skunk1]

JbinMN I have to agree. Had my share of powder measures and the uniflow worked well. Had various other brands (Lyman, bair, pacific, etc) never liked the lee. Could never get any consistency.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kungfustyle]

What is your scale? If you are using an electric scale and primed brass to weight your charges, I've noticed my Frankford arsenal digital scale and brass don't mix. Use a pan to measure on your scale. If you look at the electric scale it will go to .1 grains, that's where the problem is. The pan always remains constant. If you are +-.1 don't worry about it, load it up. If it's an issue get a digital powder measure. A Lyman powder measure with a funnel and powder in the funnel and measure works great.

[gpidaho]

I just started using the RCBS Little Dandy and really like it especially for the small charges. I have a couple of the Uniflow measures and they're also worth consideration. The Lee measures I own can be frustrating. Some powders measure very accurately in my Perfect Powder Measure and the Auto-drums but some powders just won't dispense accurately. Getting a full set of rotors for the Little Dandy would be expensive so look over your loads and plan ahead for the ones you will use most often. With the smaller rotors you can throw more than one charge for heavier pistol charges. Gp

[country gent]

See if you can adjust the measure measuring with your calipers measuring the stem. This allows for adjustments in the .001 range. RCBS uniflow or Little Dandy are good measures as is the Lyman. The redding br 30 is good. If cost is an problem. The simple old way is to make a dipper for each charge and use them. Pluses to the dippers is once made and set its always there, draw back is one has to be made for each charge.

Last is to disassemble the lee and try and tune it some for what you want to do.

[elmacgyver0]

Use a dipper, push once thru the powder and strike off with a business card.

[SvenLindquist]

If you are willing to invest in the last measure you will ever have to buy (used by all the match shooters) this is it.

http://harrellsprec.com/index.php

[sigep1764]

Ill second or third the UniFlow for expense vs usability. I have a Dillon press for 9mm/380/223, but load small quantities of 270 and 38 Special on a single stage. This is where the UniFlow gets used. Ive never used extruded powders, but ball and flake measure very well in it.

[trails4u]

I would, first, get away from a digital and use a good beam scale for your truthing. I've seen as much drift in digitals as you're claiming to be inconsistency in your powder drops.

As for the autodrum…..I use one quite a bit, but on a turret press, and it functions quite well for me in that application. I've also seen quite a few posts/comments suggesting that some way of settling powder in the drum (which the motion of a turret press does) greatly enhances the repeatability of the drum measure. Maybe try giving it a tap or two before dispensing?

Other suggestions here are good ones....and I know there are better measures on the market than the Lee...but in my experiences, I've been able to make it work, and work well....even at pistol level charges. Might just take some tinkering...

My 0.02.

[Plate plinker]

If you are willing to invest in the last measure you will ever have to buy (used by all the match shooters) this is it.

http://harrellsprec.com/index.php

This is true and the Harrell is awesome.

[RogerDat]

Well there are powder baffles one can buy which will help with keeping a consistent feed to the powder. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012934592/rcbs-uniflow-powder-measure-powder-baffle

The tapping to settle the charge and being very consistent in the movements and their force is really important. I do small loads also in a turret press without problems. I think it is partly due to the vibration causing powder to drop and settle consistently. On the perfect powder measure off press, I tap twice on both the up stroke and down stroke.

I know electric scales round up or down if that is to the nearest tenth. That means you have a 2 tenths range as it may round up or down by that amount. That could well be what you are seeing, a tiny variation that the electronic scale magnifies.

The Lee Deluxe perfect powder measure gets good reviews. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018673389/lee-deluxe-perfect-powder-measure

[David2011]

My first powder measure was a Little Dandy. They can get pretty expensive if you buy a lot of rotors for them, though. They are accurate and consistent and I was lucky enough to get a full set of rotors in a bulk purchase.

The Lyman 55 is good at measuring small loads. It has 3 sliders in it so you can fine tune the size of the cavity easily. It would serve you well for anything from small pistol cartridges to large rifle cartridges. I have a Uniflow as well. Just one person's opinion; I would not want the Uniflow as my only powder measure or one to use a lot for small charges.

If you run across an old used SAECO they are probably the most precision rotor type powder measure out there. They can be cheap or pricey but they are always precise.

I bought a Frankford Arsenal digital scale, too. I quickly found that it was best relegated to sorting boolits. Now that I have an RCBS Chargemaster I use it to weigh boolits. It's as accurate as my beam scales. Watch the gun shows. Maybe you can find an RCBS 5-0-5 or similar at a happy price. For the average handloader they're a very good scale. I've had one for about 40 years.

[Bazoo]

You said auto drum so I take it that it's adjustable? I'm not familiar with it, I thought it used replaceable inserts similar to a shot shell press.

If you mean the perfect powder measure then disregard my suggestion for one. I've used one for years, the first I used a few years til I lost it in a house fire, the current one is about a year now. I've had consistent results with it. They are bout 30 bucks.

[Javelin Dan]

Thanks to all who have replied so far. You guys are the best! You all raise some very valid points, many of which have crossed my mind either before or after my post. Let me address a couple...

1.) My technique: Yeah, I did neglect to detail this. First, I have fashioned my own baffle on the advice of an old sage. I took an appropriately sized tin can lid, cut a couple of V-shaped notches on either side about 1/2" wide at the bottom, then bent the lid to about a 45 degree angle so that when seated in the bottom of the empty drum, there is a ridge that sticks up about 3/4" - 1" providing a ramp down to either notch. I also periodically insert a fresh dryer sheet above the powder to reduce any "static cling". I also tap the drum 3 times before each charge is dropped. I did notice a marked improvement in my accuracy after adopting these principals, just not enough to stop the frustration. At face value, it wouldn't seem that this varies too much from anything any of you suggested. Is this all good enough?

2.) Accuracy of scale: I also have wondered about this. I can tell you that I will randomly take a round off the scale, let the scale zero out, and reweigh it once or twice just to see if there is a variance. Way more often than not it will settle in at the previously measured weight. Is this a valid test? If the scale is suspect, would my money be better spent on investing in a new scale as opposed to a new powder measure? I did get a balance beam scale with my original kit. I started out vowing to do it by the book and use that scale to make sure of the charges I was throwing. After watching that thing SLOWLY bob to a stop for about 1/2 hour, I swore. Then I swore that if I couldn't use a digital scale for this process, I wouldn't do it. I have some patience, just not enough for that.

3.) Type of Powder Measure: I thought I remembered that in the literature I received in my original kit, this particular measure was referred to as the "Perfect Powder Measure". I couldn't put my hands on that pamphlet when I was looking for it, but another I found showed a picture of what I have and referred to it as the "Auto-Drum Measure". Distinction without a difference? I viewed the links that JBinMN sent me and to be honest, the Lee's "Deluxe Perfect Powder Measure" is more in line with my budget, but would there be enough difference to make a difference. How do you get more "Deluxe" than "Perfect"? This stuff cracks me up! Right now I'm slightly more inclined to invest in a new scale than a new measure, but I'd sure like to hear from someone who has had a very similar experience, purchased both, and reports what the results were in either case. It's kinda like that commercial were one guy asks his neighbor if he knows any contractors and then tells him to check their references, get him a couple of quotes, and set the project up for Tuesday...

[JBinMN]

Just some suggestions per your points in your latest post.

1.)
Is this all good enough? That would be entirely up to "you". Since it seems "you" were unsatisfied enough to post here & ask about other powder measures, then it seems that "you" do not think what you are using is "good enough". It may be that you are looking for some "peer group" acceptance to help you decide whether to deal with what you have , or to jump in to another measure to try. Nothing wrong with either, but in the end it will be "you" & your wallet/bank account that makes the final decision.
;)
In regard to the different between the "Perfect" & the "DeLuxe" powder measures, I would have to go look at what might make one better than the other. I do not have, nor have used both, but do have the Perfect powder measure and have used it with several powders, and other than a slight amount of what I would call, "leakage" of powder below it on occasion, it threw charges that were acceptable to "me". I simply bought it because the price was acceptable & I wanted a spare measure. No other reason than that, as I already had a Uniflow & it has performed to meet my needs for a long time.

I would suggest that you try to find a measure that you feel you can afford that will do what you ask & last a while. ( That is why I suggested the Uniflow, as it should meet both qualifications I just mentioned & even though it is a bit more than you might like to spend, consider that it is a lifetime warranty, is made of components that wear slowly if at all compared to some other measures, and that you will likely not have to buy any other measure once you get one. IOW, ,"Don't step over a dollar, to pick up a dime", & then have to do it again maybe even again. Buy another, "once", rather than over & over til ya get a real good one. ( Reminds me of "holsters" & the extras one seems to gather . ;) )
;)
{ Note that I should add...- I throw & weigh "every charge". So, I am working the measure I am using & checking it every time I load a cartridge & not like some who throw 10 & then check charges, etc. Doing it the way I do, allows me to "know" if a powder that is being run thru the measure is working well for the measure I am using on every charge or not, as well as knowing that the measure is throwing charges up to my expectations. Then, while doing that, if the throw is high, I dump it back into the hopper or into a trickler. if it is "on", it goes in the case. If low, I tickle higher. So, once I have found the setting that throws the "exact" amount just by using the measure, I will continue to use that setting unless I see that it is throwing more or less than that expected setting & adjust accordingly to get back to what I want for a charge. If you are anyone else is wondering about the time to throw & weigh all charges, I will say that I use a LCC turret(4 hole) most of the time, although I have other presses. Using that press I average between 60-100 completed rounds in an hour. The variance might be that if I have to do any adjusting it slows me a little but, if everything is "dialed in", I can rock n roll faster. YMMV of course, but the system I use works great for "Me".}

2.)
Accuracy of scale Once again, that would be "up to you". If "you" are satisfied with what you use, then so be it. There are other who will tell you otherwise & the best is what "they" use & you should get one too. The best thing to do is to keep verifying your scale with 'check weights" & also know what variance in weight it will give over the course of your loading rounds.
I use both a F.A. digital on occasion (but more for weighing boolits than charges) & the old RCBS 5-0-5 scale ( More charges, than boolits), and both have been accurate for me. I am a "picky" guy when it comes to loading charges, (as known if one read my note above) and while I have the FA digital & have & will use it for weighing charges, I have relegated it to be for "range use" more than anything else. Meaning it is portable & would go with me if I were loading rounds at some other location than my reloading bench. The 505 has been , like the Uniflow, quite acceptable for a long time & I prefer it.

So, "you" will just have to decide if the scale you are using is adequate, and once again it will depend on yur budget & your goal for accuracy, but if it works for you currently, then there may be no nee to change now. See the last part above about the dollar & the dime , etc. for "my" suggestion on a scale.
;)
{Note - When I bump the beam scale 505 on occasion and the pan starts to swing, I simply place my finger next to it close to where it would normally be when not swinging & let the pan bump my finger until it stops swinging, which is usually pretty quick. Then I will either toss that charge into the hopper or trickler, or I will simply pour the powder from the pan into the case, then slowly return the charge to the pan & re-weigh it to make sure of its weight. Takes longer to type the process than to do it. ( mere seconds is all it takes) }

3.)
Type of Powder measure I addressed this pretty much in the first point & so will only say that since I do not have both mentioned, I cannot give an accurate assessment comparing the two. I will defer to others for such a comparison.

G'Luck! I hope I was able to help out a bit, & I also hope you figure out "just where ya want to be" for results, & that you get there without too much investment in time & $$.
:)

[trails4u]

Thanks to all who have replied so far. You guys are the best! You all raise some very valid points, many of which have crossed my mind either before or after my post. Let me address a couple...

1.) My technique: Yeah, I did neglect to detail this. First, I have fashioned my own baffle on the advice of an old sage. I took an appropriately sized tin can lid, cut a couple of V-shaped notches on either side about 1/2" wide at the bottom, then bent the lid to about a 45 degree angle so that when seated in the bottom of the empty drum, there is a ridge that sticks up about 3/4" - 1" providing a ramp down to either notch. I also periodically insert a fresh dryer sheet above the powder to reduce any "static cling". I also tap the drum 3 times before each charge is dropped. I did notice a marked improvement in my accuracy after adopting these principals, just not enough to stop the frustration. At face value, it wouldn't seem that this varies too much from anything any of you suggested. Is this all good enough? Sounds like you've done what you can do to maximize the consistency of the measure you have.

2.) Accuracy of scale: I also have wondered about this. I can tell you that I will randomly take a round off the scale, let the scale zero out, and reweigh it once or twice just to see if there is a variance. Way more often than not it will settle in at the previously measured weight. Is this a valid test? If the scale is suspect, would my money be better spent on investing in a new scale as opposed to a new powder measure? I did get a balance beam scale with my original kit. I started out vowing to do it by the book and use that scale to make sure of the charges I was throwing. After watching that thing SLOWLY bob to a stop for about 1/2 hour, I swore. Then I swore that if I couldn't use a digital scale for this process, I wouldn't do it. I have some patience, just not enough for that.
I would make it a priority to make a small investment here. You can find good deals on good scales (5-0-5 by Ohaus or RCBS, or something comparable, for probably $50 or so. If nothing else....it's a way to cross check with your digital. Scales is probably the one place I have the most duplication in my gear. We have to have them, and we have to trust them! I (personally) would be hand-weighing every charge for your really light stuff (32s). At 2.0g, a tenth is a 5% variance in charge, which is pretty significant in my opinion. With a dipper, a good beam scale, and a powder trickler, you can get pretty fast with practice. For a 4.5g load, which I use a lot for .40S&W, I'm willing to accept a tenth either way, as I'm not pushing a max load for the powder I use. I load thousands a year with the autodrum, but still weigh a charge every 10th rd. or so, just to have a second set of 'eyes' on the measure.

3.) Type of Powder Measure: I thought I remembered that in the literature I received in my original kit, this particular measure was referred to as the "Perfect Powder Measure". I couldn't put my hands on that pamphlet when I was looking for it, but another I found showed a picture of what I have and referred to it as the "Auto-Drum Measure". Distinction without a difference? I viewed the links that JBinMN sent me and to be honest, the Lee's "Deluxe Perfect Powder Measure" is more in line with my budget, but would there be enough difference to make a difference. How do you get more "Deluxe" than "Perfect"? This stuff cracks me up! Right now I'm slightly more inclined to invest in a new scale than a new measure, but I'd sure like to hear from someone who has had a very similar experience, purchased both, and reports what the results were in either case. It's kinda like that commercial were one guy asks his neighbor if he knows any contractors and then tells him to check their references, get him a couple of quotes, and set the project up for Tuesday...
Trying to approach bettering your setup, from a scientific process kind of thought, I would choose the variable you think is most suspect, replace that variable with something you believe to be better, and go from there. My opinion....start with a good beam scale. But that's just MY opinion.... You know your setup best, so YMMV.

[country gent]

A really good addition to any scales either mechanical or electronic is a set of check weights. These are a "standard" to check the scales and also the setting with. Like gage blocks to check measuring tools or transfer measurements.
Lyman and RCBS both make sets of check weights. With these you can check a scales thru its measuring range. Or you can "stack" them up to a given weight to check or verify a setting on a scales. You can normally get to .5 grns of your charge. My sets are 2-100 grn 2-50grn 2-20 grn 1-10 grn 1-5 grn then 1 2 3 4 5 and .5 grn, eith these you can check most scales accuracy or verify a setting.
There are electronic scales now that read to .02 grns that are reasonable priced. I have a gem pro that's good to .02 grns and been an accurate scales. balances are as good as the check weights used with them but much more expensive. As the scales read finer they also take longer to settle in, are more susceptible to vibrations, breezes, static and other outside sources. A good mechanical scales from any if the reloading suppliers is good once verified, you wouldn't use a new mike or calipers with out checking zero first would you? I have seen balances that will detect 1 granule of most powders. Several thousand dollars and fussy as all get out to use, but very very accurate.
Another trick is to take a small magnifying glass and mount it on the scales so it can use it to read the pointer to scales at an increased size. Keeping the scales at eye level or close lowers parallax errors also. You want to see the pointer beam the same way at eye level and straight on every time. On the electronics this isn't an issue but with them fluorescent lights or electric fields may affect them. Along with breezes and vibrations

[JBinMN]

Trying to approach bettering your setup, from a scientific process kind of thought, I would choose the variable you think is most suspect, replace that variable with something you believe to be better, and go from there. My opinion....start with a good beam scale. But that's just MY opinion.... You know your setup best, so YMMV.

Pretty good advice, IMO.
;)

also....

Ditto on the check weights mentioned by countrygent. I use the RCBS check weight set, myself. I also think they are worthy investment, indeed.

One can kind of "get by" using verified other means such as factory jacketed bullets you have & other fairly standard items to check with, but there is nothing like "knowing" using check weights from a set or the equivalent.

( No, I am not an RCBS shareholder, or "fanboy" of any kind, I just like the stuff I have used that is made by them, even though I have other mnfrs stuff too, I just have had nothing but good luck so far with the RCBS stuff, and in particular the items I have mentioned here. ;) )

[trails4u]

A really good addition to any scales either mechanical or electronic is a set of check weights. These are a "standard" to check the scales and also the setting with. Like gage blocks to check measuring tools or transfer measurements.
Lyman and RCBS both make sets of check weights. With these you can check a scales thru its measuring range. Or you can "stack" them up to a given weight to check or verify a setting on a scales. You can normally get to .5 grns of your charge. My sets are 2-100 grn 2-50grn 2-20 grn 1-10 grn 1-5 grn then 1 2 3 4 5 and .5 grn, eith these you can check most scales accuracy or verify a setting.
There are electronic scales now that read to .02 grns that are reasonable priced. I have a gem pro that's good to .02 grns and been an accurate scales. balances are as good as the check weights used with them but much more expensive. As the scales read finer they also take longer to settle in, are more susceptible to vibrations, breezes, static and other outside sources. A good mechanical scales from any if the reloading suppliers is good once verified, you wouldn't use a new mike or calipers with out checking zero first would you? I have seen balances that will detect 1 granule of most powders. Several thousand dollars and fussy as all get out to use, but very very accurate.
Another trick is to take a small magnifying glass and mount it on the scales so it can use it to read the pointer to scales at an increased size. Keeping the scales at eye level or close lowers parallax errors also. You want to see the pointer beam the same way at eye level and straight on every time. On the electronics this isn't an issue but with them fluorescent lights or electric fields may affect them. Along with breezes and vibrations

+++++ a million!!

[ukrifleman]

I use a Lee Perfect powder measure to load 17 calibres across a range of powders and have always found it to be consistent to within +/- .1gn most of the time.

There have been a few occasions with certain powders, when I have had a `bridged` charge the only threw a reduced load.

I countered this by transferring every charge from the measure into my Redding No.2 beam scale, that I had previously checked with a set of RCBS check weights.

Call me anal if you like, but I know that every powder charge is right on the money every time.

ukrifleman.

[gumbo333]

I gave up on powder measures years ago. Use a dipper, Lee or home made, larger than the load you are seeking. Whether using a balance beam or electronic scale, slowly tip the dipper and let a little flow into the scale, then tap the dipper handle with a pencil to tap tap tap out a few grains at a time till the scale balances. You get on to how to tap in a short time. Been working about 30 years. I like the balance beam scale the best, as you can see the beam start to rise. Just my old fashioned way but very accurate and fairly fast. If you load thousands at a time, maybe not what you are after. Lee dies come with a dipper, it might work for everything.

[Rockzilla]

This is true and the Harrell is awesome.

^^ This spend the $$$$ cry the whole time, but just buy it once, or buy n cry
Still have the ole Ohaus Duo-measure, works great and use it a lot, have old Uniflows,
Lyman 55's, Redding 3BR, as far as scales sorry old school, Ohaus 10-10, RCBS 10-10,
Lyman M5's, and a digital Dillon, most beams scales "Scott Parker tuned"

-Rock

[DaveTNC]

I'm going to suggest trying a different scale before you throw out the Auto Disk.

I used a Lee Auto Disk, then Auto Drum, checking every throw with a Frankford Arsenal DS-750 digital scale, and was getting very inconsistent weights no matter what I did to try and correct it - cleaning the measure, rubbing it with an anti-static sheet, running a bunch of graphite through it, you name it. Then I picked up a used balance beam scale on eBay (Hornady/Pacific Model M) and found that the powder measures were throwing charges of Bullseye and 231 within .1 grain 99% of the time. So the FA scale is now relegated to weighing bullets. Some people have good luck with them, but I didn't.

[Rich/WIS]

I started with a Lyman 55 and used it for most pistol powders, mostly Unique and Bullseye. Accurate and easy to adjust and I use it forRed Dot and Blue Dot. Being lazy I have four of them and each is set for a specific charge and only require checking before loading. Got one of the now obsolete Forster Bonanza hand held fixed rotor measures, my favorite for pistol loads and accurate as well, although I have only used it with Bullseye. Got an RCBS Uniflow and it works a treat for rifle loads, although it can be a bit more difficult to adjust and grinds some with stick powder (cuts grains). I also got one of the Lee Perfect measures to try and found it works well, a lot less of a problem cutting grains with stick powders, but also a bit fussy to adjust. The key to any of them was uniformity of operation of the handle. I do tap the measure sides and then throw about ten charges before charging cases. I am not overly worried about a tenth of a grain variation, I doubt that measured charges in factory ammunition are any more accurate, even match grade.

[T_McD]

I agree with everyone who mentioned check weights. Without them an electronic scale is quite literally useless for reloading. If you were using the LEE beam scale, then toss it. By far the most frustrating piece of equipment I have used from Lee. Literally any other brand of balance or check weights should be in your future.

[Javelin Dan]

JBinMN –

Apparently I owe you an apology for somehow misrepresenting my intentions here. I do not consider any of the people here my “peers”. When it comes to their collective knowledge and experience, I am not worthy to loosen the thongs of their sandals. I am sorry if something I said or how I said it led you to believe otherwise. But over the years, I’ve come to realize that I seldom learn much from stupid people. That’s why I have always come exclusively to this forum to ask questions and learn about handloading. Perhaps I have overstayed my welcome. Wasn’t looking for a “new best friend”, only some useful information.

In any case, it may be all academic. When some of you mentioned check weights, I remembered I had gotten a 100g. check weight with the first scale I bought that quit working and necessitated the need for the Frankford. I went to my bench to check it and when I turned on the scale it started acting goofy and flashing codes that I’ve never seen before. I tried two sets of new batteries with no change. So now of course, it is highly suspect in all this. I will shop for a new scale first and hopefully find one I can afford that measures down to hundredths instead of tenths of a grain. Hopefully, that will solve my problem, or at least identify if the scale is the culprit.

Again, I want to thank everyone who took the time to weigh in with their expertise and opinions. I sincerely apologize if I wasted anyone’s time.

[trails4u]

JBinMN –

Apparently I owe you an apology for somehow misrepresenting my intentions here. I do not consider any of the people here my “peers”. When it comes to their collective knowledge and experience, I am not worthy to loosen the thongs of their sandals. I am sorry if something I said or how I said it led you to believe otherwise. But over the years, I’ve come to realize that I seldom learn much from stupid people. That’s why I have always come exclusively to this forum to ask questions and learn about handloading. Perhaps I have overstayed my welcome. Wasn’t looking for a “new best friend”, only some useful information.

In any case, it may be all academic. When some of you mentioned check weights, I remembered I had gotten a 100g. check weight with the first scale I bought that quit working and necessitated the need for the Frankford. I went to my bench to check it and when I turned on the scale it started acting goofy and flashing codes that I’ve never seen before. I tried two sets of new batteries with no change. So now of course, it is highly suspect in all this. I will shop for a new scale first and hopefully find one I can afford that measures down to hundredths instead of tenths of a grain. Hopefully, that will solve my problem, or at least identify if the scale is the culprit.

Again, I want to thank everyone who took the time to weigh in with their expertise and opinions. I sincerely apologize if I wasted anyone’s time.

Javelin...I don't wish to speak for JB, as I'm sure he will speak for himself, but I will say the whole point of this place is exactly that we are all peers. That's why we're here! Please don't feel like an outsider here, or like you're below the level of conversation.... Honestly, reading JBs posts, I don't think that he was belittling you at all, maybe ya'll just have a different style of writing/communicating.

[jmort]

Read the entire thread.
Seemed like some good discussion.
I have a few measures.
I am determined to get the Auto Drum to work.
I like the design, but it can leak.
The is a YouTube video from Fortune Cookie 45 and he does 10 chage runs and they are all +/- .1 to .2 but if he divides the total by 10 it is dead-nuts, right on the money. Strange, but my experience as well. Close enough for me but not precise on any given charge, but precise enough for me.

[Markopolo]

I am flat out in LOVE with my Lyman Gen 6 measure... It especially shines with small loads of red dot and such that other measures I have struggle with. The Gen 6 is spot on with everything from 800x and other powders that measure like granite, to the long stick powders like 4064 and such.. absolutely 0 power cutting due to the way it measures. And it doesn’t take a bunch of space on my bench like the chargmaster does... just as fast though in my opinion. Under 200 bucks.

Marko

[worker]

I had similar problems with Lee autodisk and unique.
Just could not drop 3.8 grains at all.
Also had same trouble with RCBS Uniflow (large cylinder).

I fixed both powder measures actually, and now both work perfectly with Unique and low charges.

For Lee autodisk, all I had to is to get Titan Reloading Powder measure buffle (8 bucks)
(I do not see the plastic buffle on their site any more, but call them https://www.titanreloading.com/titan-reloading-products).
Also for the autodisk, I had to dial up to holes up compared to Lee's book.
I had measured like 20 charges periodically with rcbs 10-10 scale and electronic scale.. And it now
drops perfectly.

I also fixed the RCBS Uniflow. it was more expensive.
I realized, I had large diameter dispensing cylinder, so I had to by small one.
And I also added RCBS buffle for the powder measure.
Both of those changes fixed that device as well. Now I am happy loading
very small charges.



All along, I have been using the Lee’s Auto-drum powder measure that came with my original kit, but I think our relationship is just about over. In fact, I’m tempted to fill it with Bullseye and light a match…

[JBinMN]

Javelin Dan,

While I do not want to sidetrack from your Powder Measure subject of this topic. I am going to do so a little bit so that perhaps you will understand why I used the term, "peer group" earlier. As you read, please keep in mind that sometimes I do not do well putting my thoughts into words & what I type may not come across quite like it was meant, by my using some terms differently than others, or how I compose sentences. My use of, peer group" may have been one of those times, but I will explain why I used that term in the way I did & hopefully you may understand my explanation.

Trails4u did a super job of helping to explain my thinking, but I will add just a bit more so you see it from me, and can know where I "was coming from", as it is said. I hope, anyway. ;)

First off, I am going to provide 2 examples regarding the definition of "peer group" because I think it will help explain my use of the term...

1) peer group Dictionary result for peer group
/ˈpir ˌɡro͞op
noun
a group of people of approximately the same age, status, and interests.

2.)
In sociology, a peer group is both a social group and a primary group of people who have similar interests (homophily), age, background, or social status. The members of this group are likely to influence the person’s beliefs and behavior.[1] Peer groups contain hierarchies and distinct patterns of behavior. In a high school setting for example,18 year olds are a peer group with 14 year olds because they share similar and paralleled life experiences in school together. In contrast, teachers do not share students as a peer group because teachers and students fall into two different roles and experiences.
Source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer_group

While I used the term a bit more, "loosely" than the "strict" definitions for the term, my intent was to identify the group of folks here who share the same interests of handloading, ( casting,developing loads,reloading processes,ballistics,etc.), and Not to segregate the folks here into groups of skill levels from the rookie/neophyte level, up to Great Grand Poobah Sage of the Art level. Nor to define the group here by age, or social status either.
Simply to use the term to try to cover all of us here who enjoy learning & sometimes teaching knowledge related to handloading.

So, since we all share the same interests here, I called us a "peer group", and I hope you will understand that part of this post.

If this were a forum of Chevrolet truck enthusiasts, I would consider them a "peer group" based on that shared interest, and so on with any other group of people who share the same interests.
I might use the term to describe age ranges like "teens"/"middle aged"/ "elderly"/ etc., or, use it to describe those in a vocation or "job", like all farmers/clerks/truck drivers/teachers, etc., and use each individual type as a "peer group".

This time, in this topic, it was used to describe all of us here with a shared interest.

So, hopefully you will understand my use of the term in that way earlier. We are a group of handloaders, etc. of all ages , social backgrounds, etc., but we all here have the commonality of our "peer group" interest(s).
:)

{ Perhaps I should have chosen a better/different term, but "peer group" was the one that came to mind at the time.}

Secondly, now I will explain why I used that term, "peer group" to describe all of us here & why it may be important to some folks to find "affirmation", or "acceptance on an idea or viewpoint" from those who we share common interest in a subject.

When I was talking about finding some acceptance here to back up your thinking that you would possibly like to get a better powder measure or even a scale to better suit your needs, I was describing what many folks do & it is completely understandable & acceptable to do it.

When someone posts here asking about how to improve something they have, or are doing, it can sometimes be that they have already pretty much made up their mind, but the feel the need to gt a little "push" to act. Sometimes it is that they are stuck between a couple items & just can't seem to come to a conclusion which will be the better of the two.

So, most folks who have a "network" ( or "peer group". maybe I shold have said "network" instead.), will sometimes use that network for information to make decisions to see if there is something that the person missed in their decision making & to prevent making a mistake.

As an example, it would not matter if a farmer was young, old, wealthy , or dirt poor, if he was needing some advice, or even confirmation of his decision to buy, or possibly buy a certain type of tractor for the farm, so he might ask his "peer group"/"network", for advice, or for confirmation that between the red Int. Harvester tractors (<I call them, old "binders". LOL ;) ) & the John Deere green one, which one is the better of the 2.
Simply to either confirm the decision already made by him, by his "peer group/network", or to get advice from them for a future purchase.

So, in your case here, that is the how & why I used the term the way I did.

There was no intention of "pigeonholing" anyone, in any way in my post earlier. "Pigeon holing", meaning..."Putting folks in certain categories".

I would think that we all here, even though we are of different ages, come from different backgrounds & have different experience levels, still are "peers" to one another simply for our shared interest & why we come here to this forum.

I hope that my post here clears things up for ya.
:)
---------------------

BTW, I hope that my "sidetrack" doesn't hurt the subject here by it, but if it does ruffle someones feathers... oh well & tough for you. Ya did not "have to" read it.
;)

( I don't feel like going thru & editing this post, so you will have to take it like it is.
No spelling,syntax, etc. corrections... Suck it up & don't whine. ;) )

[str8wal]

Lyman 55 and a good beam scale to dial it in.

[robg]

I'm lazy so I try and use powders that flow easy .tac/blc2/2400/true blue not unique/reloader15 .

[Smoke4320]

I have found that cheap digital scales are that exactly … cheap and inaccurate at times.. for kitchen food ingredient weighing the worse is an off taste /bad dish.. you will get over that
in handloading that inaccuracy can raise its head at the most inopportune time and can be either expensive or fatal YMMV

[1hole]

... currently load for 32 ACP, 32 S&W long, 32 H&R magnum, 9mm, and 38 Special (and soon 357 magnum)... I do it all the old-school way using a single stage press and by weighing in every charge. I think you are over obsessing about tenths for those cartridges. They aren't BR or 400 yard cartridges!


I sometimes have to drop a charge 3-4 times before my Frankford Arsenal digital scale shows the desired weight, but then that stinkin’ Auto-Drum might throw 4 or 5 correct charges in a row, so I’ve been living with it....it took me about and hour and a half to charge 30 cases! I could creep up on 4.3 gr. pretty easily, but trying to delicately adjust the dial to coax just a little more out would suddenly spike my weight to 4.5 or well above.

Your problem is your digital scale, not the powder measure. Beam scales will follow a trickler in real time, few digitals do. It's a fact of life that digital circuits have what is called "hysterisis"; that means that after they have settled in a fixed state it takes a significant change to make a changed output.

I used to repair and calibrate precision test instruments in the space program. Trust me, ALL consumer digital scales are "cheep" no matter how much they cost; they are ALL Chinese "throw aways". No one does any real repair on them, send one in for warranty repair and they will toss it and send you a new one.

I do have a low cost digital to weigh bullets and cases but my powder is weighed on the same beam scale I started with in '65 (that's 54 years guys - try that with a digital!) and it reads exactly the same, to a tenth, today as it did when new. And their calibration is in the beam's notches so, unlike digitals, they don't drift around with operating temperature, line voltage or stray magnetic fields.

Personal opinion about "check weights"; don't bother. I've owned and/or used a couple dozen beam scales over the years. I have never seen one that wasn't perfectly suitable for reloading, most are dead on, or very nearly so, across the board.

Truth is, reloaders don't need absolute weight accuracy in our own developed charges anyway. What we do need is absolutely repeatable uniformity, time after time, and for decades of use. Digital scales just don't do that but beams do!

[Wayne Smith]

Let me once again detail my experiences with powder measures- specifically with Unique. I have a Lyman 55, RCBS measure, Bair Pistol Powder measure, Pacific Pistol Powder measure, and one other I don't remember off hand. Each and every one of the above bound Unique somewhere in the mechanism between the measure cavity and the cartridge. This resulted in under charged cases and one overcharged case - found in my 32-20 Remington. I was using quite a bit of Unique. I started investigating and found the problem in all of my measures. I got a B&M off eBay back before they started making them again and use it for almost everything. I use the Pistol Powder measures for powders other than Unique - notably Bullseye and Clays.

[Javelin Dan]

I am well aware that this thread is long dead by now, but I did want to come back one more time and close the lid just in case someone else might stumble on it with the same problem.

I had resolved to buy the best digital powder scale I could afford, preferably with one of the major reloading company's labels on it. Then if I still had problems, I would look for a new powder measure. I know all the old school, high precision types prefer the balance scales, but watching one of those bob to a stop is like watching paint dry to me. I'm not loading for competition, just producing some range ammo.

So I started looking at several reloader label scales and reading their reviews, and guess what? I couldn't find a single one rated any higher than 4-stars; some less. I saw that some reviewers were VERY disappointed in their purchases. I fund this hobby on a very tight budget and I didn't want to spend what would be to me a hefty sum and be disappointed. I found myself searching around and ended up on Amazon looking for a highly rated digital scale. I found this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Milligram-TOP-MAX-Reloading-Measuring-Calibration/dp/B07D8P4M4G/ref=sr_1_41?hvadid=178128762155&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1023726&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=13849920687631350571&hvtargid=kwd-36406498861&keywords=digital+powder+scales+for+reloading&qid=1551582334&s=gateway&sr=8-41&tag=googhydr-20.

It was rated 5-stars in one survey (a different survey than the one shown in this listing), measures down to hundreths of a grain, and was only $14.95. I chose it because of the first two reasons, but I'll admit it didn't bother me that it was inexpensive. I was also impressed that several of the very favorable reviews were written by lab techs that are required to perform very precise measurements. Will it prematurely die? Perhaps, but at this price I don't mind replacing it down the line if necessary. While I was searching, I started looking for the Titan powder baffle (https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-powder-handling/titan-round-powder-baffle) that "worker" recommended. Before I found it, I found a Lee's disk powder baffle (https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pack-Lee-Reloading-Press-Pyramid-Powder-Baffle-Auto-Disk-Drum-Classic-Pro-1000-/264229367342?oid=264182272063) that looked a little different, but basically worked the same way. I reasoned that since it was designed for the Lee's powder measure, it could possibly fit and work a little better, so I ordered that too.

So now, between the new scale and the Lee's powder baffle, I am dropping charges with my original powder measure that are within + or - two hundreths of a grain of my desired throw weight. Plenty close enough for my needs. My only tiny complaint on the scale is that I have seen digital displays that are easier to read for a farsighted old-fart like me, but not a major inconvenience. I haven't used it enough to know if I will have to re-calibrate on a regular basis or not, but if so, I can live with that. With an investment of about $30.00, I got more accuracy than I thought was possible with my current equipment. I'm happy! I hope this helps someone else along the way. Thanks again for the help!

[trails4u]

I know all the old school, high precision types prefer the balance scales, but watching one of those bob to a stop is like watching paint dry to me. I'm not loading for competition, just producing some range ammo.

I'm glad you've seemingly found a solution....but I'm a bit old school, and I do believe you get what you pay for. I'm not familiar with the scale you've bought, so I would like to hear back after you've used it for a while. Cheap and good does happen....not often, but it does.

And...for full disclosure, yes I like to watch paint dry.....because I trust it. :)

[str8wal]

I know all the old school, high precision types prefer the balance scales, but watching one of those bob to a stop is like watching paint dry to me.

Not sure what scale you have been using, but my 5-10 settles in about 3 seconds. Hope your new scale works for you. The trouble I have with digital scales is that they work, until they don't, but you won't know when that happens. That is until your gun blows up, in the worst case scenario.

[1hole]

The OLD beam scales had little or no damping and they did stabilize slowly but I don't know of any those being made for more than 35 years. I've never seen a magnetically beam scale require more than 2-3 seconds to stabilize ... that's close enough to instant for me.

IMHO, sweating precision charges for handguns (and a lot of rifles/cartridges) is a waste of time. Truth is, a couple tenths one way or the other would only matter if we used charges on the ragged edge of KABOOM and surely none of us would do that.

The advantages of beam scales over digitals is:

1. No concern over line voltage, stray magnetic fields, warm up.

2. A balance beam scale will last forever with no loss of sensitivity or accuracy if it isn't physically damaged.

3. Beam scales follow the changes of a powder trickler immediately. Few digitals do and that makes it difficult to trickle-up precision charges.

4. Beam scales don't "wander" during use; set it and forget it.

5. Reloading digitals (all of them) are cheeply made, throw-away devices. Electronic devices often fail and without warning.

I've been using my old Lyman M5 scale since '65. A lot of powder has gone through its pan and it still reads exactly the same as it did when new. I have one small digital I use to weigh cases and large bullets, NOT POWDER, and I don't expect it to last as long as the Lyman. (I say Lyman because that's what it is but it's not unique, I doubt any other beam scale would do less.)

[Ian Robertson]

Hi Guys, I have not read all the posts but....
Lee tools are a bit like Kraft Dinner, everybody likes it but no one will admit it.
I use a lot of Lee tools and my latest was the Auto Drum measure. I bought it to replace a brand new Dillon measure on a new 650 press. All powder measures are less than perfect but in my tests over the years the Lee is the best way to go.

[44magLeo]

Most other brands of scales have more than just the zero on the scale body. They have graduated marking above and below the zero mark. That's the one thing Lee could do to improve that scale.
On your Lee scale there is couple ways to add mark. Use a ruler and measure up and down from the zero mark and add marks a 1/8 inch intervals.
Or if you want it more precise you can use the scale to make check weights. Use wire and cut some pieces. Use the scale to make .5 gr weights. Make some 1 gr weights. Some two.
Now with the scale empty and set to zero. add one of the .5 gr weights. This will deflect the beam up. Use a Put a mark on the body of the scale where the beam points. Swap the .5 for a 1 gr weight. Add a mark for that weight. Add weights for as far up the body as you want.
To do the marks below the zero you toss in a bunch of your weights. Zero it out and remove weights to locate marks at the same intervals as those above.
Now when you throw a charge in the pan, watch it swing. As the beam swing up and down watch the marks. If the weight of powder matches the setting on the scale the beam will swing up and down to the same marks above and below the zero.
As in If it swings up to the 1 gr mark it should swing down to the 1 gr mark. If it doesn't then you need to adjust the powder measure till it does. You can also quickly determine just how much the charge is above or below the desired weight. If it swings up to 1 gr but swings down to 2 grs you now it's of be 1 gr.
This method, once you get used to it is just as accurate as letting it settle to a stop and is much quicker.
This method of operation is why other brands have the graduated marks for the beam pointer.
Leo

[RED BEAR]

I like my lee perfect powder measure. I did have to remove the lip in the measuring chamber to get really small charges less than 1/10 grain and had to lap it in. There are threads on here t tell how to do this. It is pretty consistent usually no more than 1/10 off. Never used anything else but in my experience you really can't go wrong with rcbs never found a better company.