Garrett Arms Spencer clone in 45/70 carbine model

[yotatrd4x4]

All. I have a potential to get a imported Garrett Arms 45/70 carbine rifle that's a Sharps clone. I cant find alot online. I know Garrett went under in the mid 80s but all I can find is they are decent clones and most parts interchange with a military Spencer rifle. I did read some barrels are similar to a Marlin and need a fat boolit. That's not an issue. My main concern is are they quality built? This one has Garrett's cartouche right above the saddle ring so he did inspect it supposedly

Palmetto sold more after he severed ties that weren't as good and they didnt have his cartouche on them. It looks really lightly used and in very good shape. I have the potential to get it for $450 so need to know if its worth it value wise and if they had in known problems I should look for? Thanks for the help.

By the way I am supposed to get it Saturday to look over and purchase if all is well with it.

[Texas by God]

I thought a 45-70 is too long for a Spencer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[country gent]

While parts interchange that's just a good reproduction How is the actual parts availability? How many original spencer "high Use" parts are still available? SOunds like an interesting addition though.

[yotatrd4x4]

Sorry meant to say sharps. It's a sharps clone not a Spencer. Anyhow does anyone own one and is it worth it? Not sure how many original sharps are out there but I know pedersoli is using the same equipment from the old Palmetto plant that used to make the Garrett rifles so many of the pedersoli parts should fit or possibly could be fitted.

[country gent]

At $450.00 there is some room for work and or upgrades if needed or desired. Keep in mind a lot of the accuracy smiths may not want to work on it as they would a pedersoli C Sharps or Shiloh. Another consideration is use plinking, Hunting, local competitions or full blown competition. How many rounds are you planning on putting thru it a year? Some silhouette competitors put more rounds through one of these rifles in a year than most see in a lifetime. What I would recommend is first set the usages and get an accurate idea of intended purpose. Examine firearm very carefully if possible with a bore scope and chamber gages. With the bore scope pay attention to leade and throat for wear, damage, finish. Also same in barrel. Check the breech face around firing pin for depressions pits scoring. Check the firing pin nose for radius and wear chips. last is make sure the triggers work and are what you want.

[1Hawkeye]

If it's a Garrett it will be a good carbine. I had one of the rifles back in the day and it shot great but keep in mind carbines don't usually do as well as a rifle. At a price of 450 I wouldn't worry about that though. The last time I saw the one I used to own it had a 1500 price tag and a guy doing the paperwork on it.

[Bent Ramrod]

I bought my Garrett Sharps Carbine in the mid-80s (IIRC) when the company went out of business. It’s a .45-70 copy of the original Sharps percussion carbines that the factory converted to .50-70 after the Civil War. This was my first essay into big old calibers, and I wanted component availability, so didn’t go for the more authentic .50-70.

By and large, it was certainly a bargain for the time ($250). It’s made from forgings, ruthlessly authentic, pretty case colors and bluing and good, if plain, wood and generally good fits.

Exceptions were: The barrel wasn’t quite clocked up to the witness mark. I took the thing apart and finished the job with my trusty barrel vise and action wrench.

The trigger pull was pretty fierce, but I don’t imagine it was worse than many originals. You could see the hammer go back a little before falling when the trigger was pulled. I smoothed this down some with a stone. Still not a set trigger, but OK for the use a carbine would be put to.

The sights were adequate, and no doubt authentic, but not of the best. I got a better machined copy of the Lawrence rear sight and a bead front sight tall enough to bring the ladder settings to approximate POA out to 200 yards or so. The teeny German silver lump in the front sightbase was easily tapped out and replaced with the bead. I got a Third-Place Ribbon at 300 yards at a shooting match using these sights once. :mrgreen:

I bought an extra firing pin, lever spring and main spring from Garrett, “just in case.” The lever spring conked out, but the rest of the parts are still going strong. It took a couple snaps to “fit” the original firing pin in its channel so cartridges went off, but no trouble has occurred since, and I haven’t had to replace the pin.

It is not a target rifle. IIRC, the barrel dimensions are something like 0.447” bore, 0.458” groove. Don’t know if this was the old standard that the Italians copied, but that rifling is DEEP! I mostly shot the Ideal 457124, cast soft, in it. It shoots fine for fun purposes with Pyrodex Ctg with a little Pyrodex P on top of the charge, IMR 4831 (after Ken Waters’ recommendation) and Unique. Never found a black powder load that shot worth sour apples in it, but of course it could be rebarreled.

I don’t know why Garrett went out of business, but it was not because of the overall quality of the product. There weren’t many Sharps replicas in the market back then, and all were having teething problems. I bought the Garrett with the deposit I’d put on a Farmingdale Shiloh, when manufacturing delays stretched into two years. I have a more recent manufacture Pedersoli Berdan Sharps that I had to turn the barrel up to mark, and the sight is still slightly tilted, so little tweaks are still sometimes necessary with any European production replicas.

If the one you are looking at is at all like mine is (or even was), $450 in today’s inflated shin-plasters is a rare bargain. I sometimes see Garrett carbines on auction sites going for over $1000.

[bob208]

I have one in .50-70. if you don't look at the stampings you would think it is a original. very well made. I talked to Garrett at a gun show. he said he only made 100 carbines. I don't know if it was just .50-70 or all.

[John in PA]

Garrett's tooling eventually was bought by Pedersoli (?), I believe. Their internal lock parts, springs, etc *should* interchange with the Garrett. But the firing pin and breechblock will NOT interchange with model 1874 firing pins/blocks. Garrett's cartridge guns were repros of the Sharps conversion arms, which had a different firing pin and block from the later factory production 1869 and 1874 Sharps.

[John in PA]

BTW, the two Garrett .50-70's I tried to purchase back in the day both had excessive headspace, and I returned them and gave up and waited for Shiloh to bring out their cartridge guns. Might want to check headspace if you get one.

[Deadeye Bly]

I've never owned a carbine in 45/70 but I have a 28" octagon barrelled sporting rifle. The bore is .443" and the groove is .462" diameter. It took me several years to find a bullet that fit. The best accuracy I got from it was with bullets from an original 500 grain combo mold/loading tool. They were small but bumped up and shot well. The firing pin broke so I made replaceable tips that screw into the original firing pin transfer bar. The lever spring broke and one from Dixie fixed it. I replaced the mainspring with an original Indian War surplus one. It did not break but I wanted a spare and put the original in, just never took it back out. All in all I've probably got about 5000 rounds through the rifle and for the most part it has been fully functional and satisfying to shoot.

[1Hawkeye]

If you wind up getting the garrett try a lyman 457193 405gr with 34 grs of IMR 3031 that was the load mine shot well with.

[bob208]

I think the problem was Garrett was about two years ahead of time when black powder cartage became popular.

all I did to make mine a shooter was make a new front sight blade out of a brass key. made it taller and full width. filed it down to get on target at 50 yds.i have about 100 Dixie brass cases. I load with 1f b-p. I took it out deer hunting never got a shot. but I think it would have done the job.

[yotatrd4x4]

All. Thanks for the details. The rifle looks very lightly used from images I have of it. Obviously I wont know until I actually look at it. The seller inherited all of the firearms from his late father and has no desire to keep them and didnt know what half of them are or values. He sent me pictures of 20 some odd rifles from sks to arisakas to German mausers etc. He just went online found similar guns and priced accordingly. He doesnt know if his dad used the Garrett carbine or not. In all he got he said there was no ammunition which leads me to think his dad collected but either had no desire to fire the guns or maybe put a few rounds thru each to function test and put them away. All were slightly dusty which looks like they were stored in the back of a closet etc. I know it's an original Garrett as the receiver is marked and the Garrett cartouche are on the stock which was supposed to be his seal of inspection. Right now I'm kinda on the fence. I have always wanted a sharps mainly for nostalgia but want something I can shoot at the range just for fun but also I would have no issues with hunting with it either which is why I like the idea of the carbine. I dont have headspace gauges for a 45 70 and wont purchase a set just to check the rifle. I also would hate to pay 450 for this gun and see something wrong I missed on inspection. I know many say these are great shooter grade guns and that's what I want. Not looking for a match rifle etc.

[RustyReel]

I've never actually laid eyes on a Garrett Sharps, but unless there is something seriously wrong with the rifle I think $450 is a no-brainer. Seems if it doesn't work for you after purchase you could easily recover that by reselling the rifle (reporting known defects) or by parting it out. If it works great, which it probably will, you end up with a nice rifle at a great price. In today's market, there are no $450 Sharps! YMMV

[oldred]

I've never actually laid eyes on a Garrett Sharps, but unless there is something seriously wrong with the rifle I think $450 is a no-brainer. Seems if it doesn't work for you after purchase you could easily recover that by reselling the rifle (reporting known defects) or by parting it out. If it works great, which it probably will, you end up with a nice rifle at a great price. In today's market, there are no $450 Sharps! YMMV

Exactly my thoughts, that rifle would have to be a piece of rusty junk not to be worth a paltry (for a Sharps) $450!

Actually on second thought it could be quite rusty and STILL be worth $450!!!

[marlinman93]

I'm not a carbine fan, but at $450 I'd buy it and rebarrel it to a longer/heavier barrel in a caliber I liked.

[1Hawkeye]

Don't worry about the head space that was only the 50-70's and the complete action is worth 450 easy. This is truly a no brainer. If you decide you don't like it then sell it and make some money.

[yotatrd4x4]

Thanks for the advice guys. If all looks well tomorrow I am gonna buy it. I will post some pics afterwards if I can figure it out.

[yotatrd4x4]

Well. The deal has fallen through. Not sure if the fella figured out the rifle was worth more than his $450 asking price or if he sold it to someone else. I tried to call and text with no answers or reply multiple times Friday and Saturday. Oh well I would have liked to at least held the rifle. Anyhow thank you all for the advice. Didnt pan put this time but I'm always searching for a good deal or interesting firearms.

[yotatrd4x4]

Ok looks like I finally am gonna get to handle the rifle. Fella says he's been out of town but is going to meet me tomorrow so I can look at the rifle and buy it for $450 if it looks good. Will keep you fellers updated on if i get it or not.

[yotatrd4x4]

I didnt post any pics yet but got the rifle. To my surprise he had no idea what it was. It is a Garrett arms rifle with proper cartouche on the stock that says Garrett himself supposedly inspected it. Anyhow it's actually a 54 caliber paper cartridge gun. Now I have dabbled a little with black powder and grew up running a hawken 50 deer hunting back east.

When I looked at the rifle it has some scuffs here and there. Needs a good cleaning and could use a refinish on the stocks after I run them in the dishwasher to pull some dents.

The 54 cal breech loader called to me when i looked it over and i actually ended up trading a like new S&W M&P45 for it. Hopefully i did ok as it looks pretty good overall with a mint bore. No rust or pits at all. I would have preferred a 45-70 but the 54 black powder called me to take it home. Will post pics after I clean it some maybe tonight!