.45/70-Keepin' it real.

[Captain*Kirk]

Been doing a lot of reading and conversing with others regarding loading the .45/70 for BP in my Sharps.
From the get-go, it's plain as the nose on my face that I could easily go way overboard in gearing up by buying moulds, sizing dies, a better lead pot, etc in search of the perfect cartridge, when I've never even shot the gun yet or have any idea what it likes to shoot boolit-wise or powder-wise.
Actually, I want to ease on into this like a kid dipping a toe into the pool, rather than leaping off the high-dive.
New brass, pre-cast and lubed boolits and some good ol' 2F is how I want to start this. The add-ons can come later. I even considered starting out with a box of "cowboy rounds" but can't seem to find any loaded with the real thing (2F) or a cast boolit over 405 grains. (405FN seems to be the popular flavor these days)
If anyone has any suggestions for a newbie to BPCR, please speak up.

[Dan Cash]

Commercial cast bullets, especially those that are lubricated will probably not please you. Odds on that they will be too small and the lubricant will not work with black powder. You will need to determine the bore and throat dimensions before you order a mould and those measurements can vary a great deal between makers.

If you will PM me with your postal address, I will send you some lubricated bullets and wads which will get you started. Except for your mould, loading BP cartridges can be very low tech and render great results. It is possible to load with out any dies if you wish.

[country gent]

Several good ways to "ease" into this. Its not hard to do and getting started is the first step.
The needed basics to start. Dies brass powder primers bullets
The above goes with any firearm pretty much. These are need for sure.

Bullets put an add in swapping and selling for bullets to test and start out. In the Sharps the 500grn 457125 govt round nose is a good performer along with the 535 grn postell by lyman. But testing a group of bullets from .480-550 grns is bad either. As for them to be BP lubed SPG or other. There are several benefits here
1) you find out what the rifle likes
2) with the samples from here you get the mould maker number and description to buy the exact same mould.
3) the bullets will be cast appropriately for te rifle from good alloy and by a knowing caster.

Powder: Start out with a good powder Olde Ensforde is usually in the running and a common granulation your 2 f is a good choice here.

Pick up a SPG loading manual or Randolph Wrights Loading And Shooting the Paper Patched Bullet A Beginners Guide. For the basic How tos.

In actual loading its the same with few little differences . Clean and prep your brass. prime with a good std primer. A powder charge to fill the case to base of seated bullet. Add a .060 wad and seat bullet in the single shots no crimp is need. Work up from here in 2 grain increments

Additional tooling that will become wanted:
1) Drop tube 24-36" to get more powder in the case and a better fill
2) compression die or plug to compress powder and wad in the press separately.
3) bullet mould in the style your rifle likes
4) Sizing dies lube and sizers here a lot shoot pan lubed and as cast may never be needed.
5) wad punch, you can buy wads or punch them out yourself you go thru them quick. A plus to DIYS is you can work with a lot more materials.

[jednorris]

Definitely stick with S.P. G. lube, and I strongly recommend Black Powder. Loading with Black powder your volume is not going to vary greatly, so you are off to a good start. I believe sticking to bullets weighing between 470 gr. and 530 gr. would be the best and wisest overall choice.

[Captain*Kirk]

Thanks, guys! Some great suggestions here for starting points!

[Edward]

Thanks, guys! Some great suggestions here for starting points!

I have some 45/70 government/515 gr /20-1 /sized 459 to spare if you PM for shipping info/Ed

[Captain*Kirk]

I have some 45/70 government/515 gr /20-1 /sized 459 to spare if you PM for shipping info/Ed

Will do!

[ELFEGO BACA]

Check out the Buffalo Arms website.
They have all that you need!
A Lyman Postell bullet mold is a good one!

[Captain*Kirk]

So, in my efforts to keep it 'real" (and stay in my tax bracket) I've ordered up a Lyman Postell mould and handles. I intend to use (new) Starline brass, SPG lube (to start) and Swiss 1.5F (if I can find it).
Since my only real goal is to make copious amounts of smoke and make steel sing and jump for my own amusement at distances of 200 or less, I think I'm on track. You paper-patchers probably think I'm just dipping a toe in the water WRT distance and accuracy and you're probably right...but at the end of the day, the most important part is the grin that won't fade, and I think I'm on track with the Postell. Wish me luck.

[country gent]

I have used the Lyman 535 grn postell for years with good results. I did convert mine to nose pour abiut10 years ago. A couple little things with Starline brass and black powder it pays to anneal right off. The last couple batches Ive gotten have been pretty good as to length, mouths being square, and light to no burrs on flash holes so I would anneal and load to start. Take care of the brass after firing drop it into dish soap water jug to neutralize fouling as soon as possible. I believe the new tide jugs have a spout insert that can be pulled out leaving threads for cap and a 2 1/2"-3" mouth. Fill this 3/4 full of water with a few drops of dawn dish soap. Drop cases in as fired. When done cap and shake for a minute or so head home shake again and pour off water rise 2-3 times with hot water.

SPG is a good lube and works well the postell carries enough lube also.

[garandsrus]

You are off to a great start with the components you picked. Have fun!

[Gunlaker]

You should be off to a great start. If you are lucky like me you will be hooked :-)

Don't forget some form of fouling control. Controlling fouling is at least as important as the actual load when it comes to good results. I'm not a blow tube expert, but I can say that they work. I like wiping between shots. It's not just as simple as pushing a patch through, you have to play with a few things to get optimal results.

I'm sure you'll have a blast! Good luck :-)

Chris.

[Wayne Smith]

Fouling control starts with a good lube and a boolit that carries enough of it. Check your muzzle for a lube star after firing a couple rounds. SPG or Emmert's or Emmert's modified will all work and are easily available - SPG purchase and the other two making - see the lube making stickie.

Most of this is absorbing what others do and then applying those ideas one at a time in your rifle to see what your rifle likes - rifles are all different. You may happen on your ideal combination early or may end up shooting a lot to find out what your rifle likes.

Do you have BP locally available or do you have to order. Do you know other BP shooters who may be willing to share an order? The logistics of this are important.

[Captain*Kirk]

I will have to order, Wayne. Grafs carries it and they have a minimum quantity per order, but their haz fee is very reasonable, providing they will ship to this gun-tard state (many won't). Since I use 3F and 2F black on my other guns and they allow mix 'n' match powders it should work out.
And thanks for the other tips, gents. I know cleaning between shots is pretty important, been reading up on it a bunch.

[Gunlaker]

One way to tell if your fouling routine is up to snuff is to shoot a lot over a chronograph, especially in hot weather. If you are building up nasty fouling it will show in the numbers. Generally large variations in velocity that tend to trend downward, i.e. your last several shots at the end of a string of 12-15 will be slower than the first several shots.

Also poor accuracy of course :-) :-)

Chris.

[Captain*Kirk]

The last couple batches Ive gotten have been pretty good as to length, mouths being square, and light to no burrs on flash holes so I would anneal and load to start.
What's your preferred annealing process?

[country gent]

There are several ways to anneal. Annealing is a temp / time combination. I will give several methods here to anneal cases.
1) Stand cases up in a shallow pan of water with the water up to where you want annealing to stop. Heat to medium blue shade and tip over. The water acts as a heat sink stopping the heats flow into the case head. This method works but its harder to get even temp all around and seeing the color change is tricky.

2) a socket and extension can be used to roll the cases in the flame heating evener and the socket acts as the heat sink. A piece of copper tubing with a stop in to the desired depth works well also. Again you rely on your eye sight to judge color changes. This works better and can be pretty quickly done. With this method when you dump the case onto water dip the holder also to keep it cool also or it will heat up.

3) There are machines that do a very consistent job of this but I've never used one to comment in them


4) I use a lyman big dipper lead pot with a rack in it I made and filled with glass making silica sand ( a very fine sand that flows and heats evenly) Here I heat the pot to 750* measured with a lead thermometer. I then insert cases into the rack working around it. when full I remove one drop into water and insert another working around until cases are done, This gives a 750* temp for 12-14 seconds. Cases come out in a very consistent state and have little spring back to them.
Some use lead for this and it works but I had problems with it "soldering" to cases occasionally. I get very little color change but part of this is the lack of oxygen and oxidation from the flame.

In order the colors your looking for are straw / yellow. a light green, light blue to blue ( this is the color your looking for), orange, red. Blue is the shade you want and when done you will see the others as it fades down the case towards the head.

A piece of 1/2" copper tubing 6"-8" long, with a 1/2 - 3/4 reducer and a short length of 3/4 tubing ( cut to length where you want annealing to end) works very well. glue the reducer to the 1/2" tubing handle and pin it in place. I leave the 3/4" a snug fit in the reducer ( this way if you go to a longer or shorter case you just need to cut a new piece of tubing to the needed length. This is a simple piece to make and works very well.
In use set the torch on the floor or a stand at a comfortable height sitting. set a container of water beside it ( A couple drops of dish soap dosnt hurt anything) A small plastic trash can works well here and holds a gallon or so of water. Sit at a comfortable distance from this. Insert a case in the holder and rotate in the flame at the point of the blue inner flame watching for the color changes. when light blue is reached drip into water and dip the holder. The color changes show better in a dim room ( low light level). After a few cases you will have an idea how long it takes and know when the changes are going to happen.

PM me if you need information or help making this tool

[chuck40219]

[QUOTE=country gent;
PM me if you need information or help making this tool[/QUOTE]

I am on a similar quest as Captain Kirk. If you don`t mind I would be interested in the extended explanation, a photo of your tool would help also.

Chuck40219

[Gunlaker]

Lee makes some things you can use to cobble together a nifty tool for holding cases in a drill for annealing. I don't remember the names of the parts, but one is their case length gauge for the case holder, and there is some other part which has a hex bit on one end that attaches to their case holder. It works perfectly with a battery drill.

Someone on one of the various forums turned me on to it. The parts only cost a few bucks and they work perfectly.

EDIT: the two parts are the "Cutter and Lock Stud" and the other is the "Case Length Gauge".

Chris.

[chuck40219]

OK, I have these, never thought to use for this task.

Chuck40219

[StrawHat]

Captain*Kirk,

You have received a lot of good advice from other members. Probably a good idea to sort through it and follow what sounds right to you.

Just on this forum, there are several fellows who not only compete, but win long distance matches. There methods work and they can consistently proof it.

My method could easily be referred to, and maybe has been referred to, as slop bucket loading. I am not a competitor, merely someone who likes meat in the freezer.

I started out using SPG, a Lyman 400+ grain boolit, whatever brass and primer I had available and Goex black powder (usually ffg but sometimes fffg). I scooped enough powder into the case to allow a good bit of compression. I then made a measure to grab that amount from the bowl of powder I used. Using this measure I would scoop the powder and slowly pour it through a funnel into the primed case. The slow pour simulates the drop tube and allows the powder to pack into the case a bit more compact. If the powder was not compact enough I would use a wood dowel sized to be a slip fit in the case to compress it. Then seat the lubed bullet and call it good. Did I win competitions? Don’t know, never tried but at 100 yards the groups could be covered by my hand and more important, the meat ended up in the freezer.

So, now you have a couple of options.

Choose your poison!

Kevin

ps

The 45-70 is a good cartridge to learn with. Get Spence Wolf’s book. Some of the advice is dated and currently not in vogue, like enlarging primer holes and using magnum primers but it is a great basic manual.

http://www.4570book.info/#2896

Even when you tire of the 45-70 and move on to other bpcr, the knowledge you glean will work.

Kevin

[country gent]

Unfortunately I cant do pics. I will try to give a better description and explanation below.

Bill of materials:
1/2 copper tubing 6"-8" long, this is the handle portion of the tool so brake and deburr edges for a smooth feel
1/2"-3/4" reducer this opens the working end up to hold the cases rim first and makes a smooth surface so cases slide in and drop out
3/4" copper tubing 1"-1 1/4" long This slides in the reducer giving an length setting for annealing the same each time. Again break edges and deburr

Assembling glue the reducer to the 1/2 tubing and pin it with a 1/16" to 1/8" pin snug fitting and edges peened over to a smooth edge. This makes the handle portion.
cut and deburr the 3/4" tube to desired length I fit it snug so it can be removed for other lengths or sizes. This tool will do most 45 cases and 40 65 with other end tubes its capable of all.

In use is the same as in previous post and works well and quickly. A propane or mapp gas torch provides plenty of heat and a localized flame. I tried a mapp oxy torch and was to much heat and to localized to control well also more expensive. The lower temp gives time to roll the case heating even and see the color changes.

[chuck40219]

Unfortunately I cant do pics. I will try to give a better description and explanation below.

Bill of materials:
1/2 copper tubing 6"-8" long, this is the handle portion of the tool so brake and deburr edges for a smooth feel
1/2"-3/4" reducer this opens the working end up to hold the cases rim first and makes a smooth surface so cases slide in and drop out
3/4" copper tubing 1"-1 1/4" long This slides in the reducer giving an length setting for annealing the same each time. Again break edges and deburr

Assembling glue the reducer to the 1/2 tubing and pin it with a 1/16" to 1/8" pin snug fitting and edges peened over to a smooth edge. This makes the handle portion.
cut and deburr the 3/4" tube to desired length I fit it snug so it can be removed for other lengths or sizes. This tool will do most 45 cases and 40 65 with other end tubes its capable of all.

In use is the same as in previous post and works well and quickly. A propane or mapp gas torch provides plenty of heat and a localized flame. I tried a mapp oxy torch and was to much heat and to localized to control well also more expensive. The lower temp gives time to roll the case heating even and see the color changes.

Thank you for the time to write this. I think for now I will follow this course of action:

Lee makes some things you can use to cobble together a nifty tool for holding cases in a drill for annealing. I don't remember the names of the parts, but one is their case length gauge for the case holder, and there is some other part which has a hex bit on one end that attaches to their case holder. It works perfectly with a battery drill.

Someone on one of the various forums turned me on to it. The parts only cost a few bucks and they work perfectly.

EDIT: the two parts are the "Cutter and Lock Stud" and the other is the "Case Length Gauge".

Chris.

I am also on a learning journey. I apologize to Captain Kurk for taking over his post.

chuck40219

[Captain*Kirk]

No apology necessary. We are both here for the same reason, and many thanks to all the kind, helpful and friendly replies from knowledgeable members here!

[Captain*Kirk]

The new Postell mould and handles showed up yesterday. Would it be wrong to say I'm anticipating dropping lead from this thing?

[MT Chambers]

Don't be afraid of the lighter bullets in the BP 45/70, one of my favs. is the Lyman Gould 330 gr. hollow point, as long as the bullet can be sized right, cast soft, and has enough grooves for BP lube, you are good to go. That bullet is my fav. hunting bullet in the 45/70.

[indian joe]

Don't be afraid of the lighter bullets in the BP 45/70, one of my favs. is the Lyman Gould 330 gr. hollow point, as long as the bullet can be sized right, cast soft, and has enough grooves for BP lube, you are good to go. That bullet is my fav. hunting bullet in the 45/70.

Yes to that ! OP is mostly interested in under 200yards ??
I use a 335 or a 400 grain --altered version of the LEE 459-405-HB - as a short range load in a couple of lever gunz and in my sharps - acuracy quite good to 200yds - less recoil - less cost .........I turned a new base plug (long one for 335 gr and short one for 400gr) minus the tit that makes the hollow base - then milled the top of the mold to widen the meplat. Been considering asking accurate to copy this mold as a two holer without the base plug for easier casting. Both these boolits give great fouling control without wiping between shots.

[Captain*Kirk]

Yes to that ! OP is mostly interested in under 200yards ??


Well, I'd be interested in +400 yards, but the current supply of local gun ranges generally don't extend out past 200. I would be happy if I could find one with a 400yd range that I would not have to drive 1+ hours to.:killingpc

I'm not necessarily opposed to a lighter boolit, I shoot smokeless 405 JFP's out of my Browning High Wall currently, and may well try another boolit/mould after I get used to the Postell's characteristics.

[rfd]

i use a 404 grain PPB for 200 yards and anything over that, which currently is 400 and 700 yards, is a mandatory 523 grain PPB. but heck, half the fun is testing stuff out and finding what diet yer gun likes best for different distances and whatnot. mine used to like fast food, now it's in surgery and getting a new plumbing system. ;)

[Captain*Kirk]

BTW, if anyone else is in the birthing pangs of BPCR like me, I just found out I could have saved a bunch of up-front costs by buying the BPCR Postell loaded with Swiss already assembled:

https://www.buffaloarms.com/45-70-government-535-grain-postell-black-powder-ammo-box-of-20-amobp4570535

While that's a bunch of dinero for 20 rds of BPCR, it's a drop in the bucket compared to what you will drop in moulds, handles, brass, primers, powder and lead to get started, not to mention casting supplies for the newbie that has never done any casting. Just sayin'.

[EDG]

Store bought ammo is not really any kind of savings other than getting you to the range faster.
You have no idea if that ammo is going to be any good in your rifle. It might keyhole and be a total loss for all you know.
You are comparing an expendable vs a non-recurring cost. Store bought ammo is a cost that never goes down and may never shoot well. The store bought ammo is not flexible and has no ability to be optimized for your rifle.
The non-recurring costs to get set up are a one time thing. They are like the cost of the rifle. Spend it one time and the tools and equipment will still be working 40 years from now. They can be resold for real money.
With the right mold and tools the cost of your ammo in the future is much reduced plus you control its quality.
Fired store bought ammo is just gone. It has no residual value other than selling the brass.

If you have never cast or reloaded before I can sympathize a little with the cost to get the entire process started but that is not really the fault of your first BPCR. Most of that equipment can be used for any number of rifles and pistols. Ten boxes of that ammo more than pays for getting set up to cast. Perhaps you are forgetting the $14 a shipment for UPS or FedEX shipping?
My first BPCR only cost the price of dies. I was able to get bullets cast by a friend.
Years later I have a half dozen .45-70 molds but they have been used for about a dozen different rifles.
I have tested sample bullets from about another 5 or 6 molds.
Check Sage- They have cast BPCR bullets that might help you short cut the process a little.

https://www.sageoutfitters.com/bullets.html



BTW, if anyone else is in the birthing pangs of BPCR like me, I just found out I could have saved a bunch of up-front costs by buying the BPCR Postell loaded with Swiss already assembled:

https://www.buffaloarms.com/45-70-government-535-grain-postell-black-powder-ammo-box-of-20-amobp4570535


While that's a bunch of dinero for 20 rds of BPCR, it's a drop in the bucket compared to what you will drop in moulds, handles, brass, primers, powder and lead to get started, not to mention casting supplies for the newbie that has never done any casting. Just sayin'.

[Captain*Kirk]

I've already taken the plunge into metallic reloading as well as casting for BP a long time ago, but it appears I will need a bigger lead pot (my current Lee Melter is only 4#). Your points are all well-taken, but it appears I will have to drop a couple hundred in better casting gear, cases, 30:1 lead, and at least a pound of Swiss just to get started. I guess my point was that since I already have the 535gr Postell mould, buying a box of BACO ammo loaded with Swiss and a 535gr Postell ought to put me in the general neighborhood of what I will be concocting on my own. Naturally, I want to have complete control of every step from casting to bullet seating, but if a box of BACOs will put me on paper, it might be a quick jump-start to get me shooting BPCR now, rather than waiting until I've gathered all the necessary bits and pieces and loaded up a few boxes.
In no way was I intending to relay that I thought it would be better to buy factory ammo as a permanent solution.

[country gent]

I would recommend a 20 lb pot capacity at the minimum bigger is better here. Those 535s will empty a pot quick, in reality with the sprue your around 600 grns every pour. The larger mass is easier to control temperature swings on also. My pot is gas fired and holds 130+ lbs. Ladle cast. Casting in 20-1 and bullets from 365 grns to 550 grns using 2moulds at a time a 20 lb pot empties very fast. There are ways to keep up using the smaller pots tough most require a second pot.

As to powder Ive been getting very good results with the Olde Ensforde powder. Experiment with both.

In the bullets the postell name / term is sort of generic like saying this is steel. Each maker has what they consider the correct nose shape and form for their "postell" bullet.

One plus to the factory loaded ammo is if it works in your rifle it gives a very good starting point for your handloads. It will get you shooting faster and give you an idea of what to expect. If the maker gives detailed load data its easy to duplicate the load. As to these loads I would describe them as commercial handloads rather than factory loads.

[Captain*Kirk]

I would recommend a 20 lb pot capacity at the minimum bigger is better here. Those 535s will empty a pot quick, in reality with the sprue your around 600 grns every pour. The larger mass is easier to control temperature swings on also. My pot is gas fired and holds 130+ lbs. Ladle cast. Casting in 20-1 and bullets from 365 grns to 550 grns using 2moulds at a time a 20 lb pot empties very fast. There are ways to keep up using the smaller pots tough most require a second pot.

As to powder Ive been getting very good results with the Olde Ensforde powder. Experiment with both.

In the bullets the postell name / term is sort of generic like saying this is steel. Each maker has what they consider the correct nose shape and form for their "postell" bullet.

One plus to the factory loaded ammo is if it works in your rifle it gives a very good starting point for your handloads. It will get you shooting faster and give you an idea of what to expect. If the maker gives detailed load data its easy to duplicate the load. As to these loads I would describe them as commercial handloads rather than factory loads.

I had actually considered this one, especially at the sale price:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/868436/rcbs-easy-melt-furnace

However, the review comments about needing to leave the fan running for 2-2.5 hours to cool down so as not to damage the internal circuit boards raised a red flag.

More likely considering the Lee Magnum pot:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/868436/rcbs-easy-melt-furnace

Cheaper, and more importantly, simple. Paired with a good lead thermometer, it should allow me to cast enough Postells for one good loading session, and without the bottom pour that so many people complain develop leaks (I intend to ladle pour). Unless there is a reason to invest mucho dinero into one of the big Lyman or RCBS furnaces that I haven't thought of?

[rfd]

cheap lee 20# ladle pot and a thermometer. period.

[country gent]

Those look very useable. From sound of reviews they may be POD controlled even. I like a shallower larger dia pot for ladle casting to easier to ladle out of. My home made gas fred pot is a propane tank cut down only around 4" deep but 12-13" in dia with a conical bottom. It holds 130 lbs but I can ladle down to around 4-5 lbs in it. Takes a little learning and fiddling with temp and learning the "setting " on the burner.

I set some pluses to that unit also. filled the cover would allow using it to pre heat moulds. ( a sheet metal lid made for it would be even better for this holding heat in around the mould). The size and shape seems conductive to easy use. I also like the built in temp display.

With the 535 grn bullets you around 14 to the pound so 10 lbs is roughly 130 20 lbs would be 260 and 25 lbs would be around 320. depending on how far down you can fill your ladle.

One simple mod to consider ladle casting these long bullet is to use a lyman or rcbs ladle with the spout opened up to around .210 dia from the 3/16" original size.

[bigted]

Good to see ya here Cap. Depending on your desires with the rifle ... directly predicts the direction of pursuit and equip needed.

Example thusly ... cheap satisfying accuracy to " hunt " animals ... both steel and flesh ... can be built very cheaply and easy such as;

Take a fired case or two and measure inside the fired case mouth.
Take this measurement as your rifles desire to fill the throat.
Such as ... if your inside measurement is .461 for example ... your first boolits should be .461 inch on the driving bands.
Next discover what max distance you desire to shoot ... such as a 4 or 500 yard max ... if so then a 400 to 450 grain boolit would suffice.
Depending on your powder choice, will demand the compression it will require hence a beginning load grain wise to start experiments.

So take the examples to load as such;

Take your 68 grain powder charge, compress it to allow a vegi card overpowder followed by a thinner card to be against the boolit, after compressing, seat your boolit so the rifling is around .005 to engraving the nose against the rifling. Remove the slight flair to allow the cartridge to be chambered.

Easy peasey ... a begining. A spot to build from.

Great to see you here ... I hope your travel here is filled with exhilarating experiences and gentle and cheap lessons.

[Captain*Kirk]

Thanks, Ted. Actually, been a member here nearly as long as you, just not been real prolific about it...LOL. Now that I'm digging in to BPCR, I have more questions than a three year old, and no better place in the world to get answers!

I now have 100 new Starline .45/70 cases on the way...

[Captain*Kirk]

So, things are showing up at my door.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7884/46714365004_fc8a5f33c5_z.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7822/47384686972_8f4e83e2cd_z.jpg

And more things...

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7860/33612048798_719f24af1f_z.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7914/40522709013_98cc3fb5d8_z.jpg

[mazo kid]

When I first started casting, I borrowed a plumber LP fired pot and used a ladle. Got me going..... the bench-top units are more handy when you aren't doing huge numbers of boolits. My go-to pot is a Lee 20# bottom pour; it does drip occasionally, but it isn't the problem some make it out to be. A quick back and forth rotation with a screwdriver and it is good for a long time. I am a lefty and my ladle (one of 3-4) is a Lyman. I welded a nut on the opposite side and screwed the original handle into that. A drill bit that just cleaned up the original spout hole was used. Just little things can make a difference.