Enfield No 4 in 6.5x57r or 6x57r

[andym79]

Hi guys I have an Enfield No 4 with a worn barrel. I am thinking of barreling it in 6.5x57r or 6x57r i.e a 6mm remington with a rim. The latter would be made using 6.5x57r brass.

I am looking for a varmint rifle good for 200-400 yards.

I would prefer to go the 6mm route, I am thinking 1:12 twist with 70 grain bullets.

I think the magazine should work well with it, it seems to function okay with 7x57r, might need a tiny file as case is less tapered than 303.

What do you think, should it work.

I think starting loads would probably be max for this action though so would give up 200-300 fps compared with 6mm remington.

Thanks Andy

[john.k]

Whats wrong with 243/303,or a 6.5 on 303.............this will work properly in the mag.and if you look around you might even fine a cheap NOS barrel in 243/303........and the cases will be a whole lot cheaper and more available..........its also possible no gunsmith would do a conversion to a high pressure case for fear of an accident.

[andym79]

Lack of reamers and dies!

[nicholst55]

Lack of reamers and dies!

Both of which can be gotten, with a suitable outlay of money...

[andym79]

I guess there in lies the problem. Lots of smith have 6mm reamers and dies run $40. But a reamer and die for a 243-303 is going cost to cost $600 plus barrel and fitting it's then a $1500 mk 4. I can't spend over $1500 just to end up with a 243! If only there was more choice in factory rifle twist rates.

[edp2k]

Look up 6mm Musgrave.
Lee (titan) has dies for ~$30 US.
It's a 303 British necked down to 6mm, typically for shooting smaller critters like varmints and small native deer species.
Popular in Aus, South Africa, any where else that was a an ex Brit colony and thus has
lots of inexpensive surplus Lee-Enfields around.

Don't know what a reamer would cost you or if a rental was available.

Since its a necked down 303 then the bolt and mag of your No. 4 would not have to be modified.

[longbow]

http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/custom-chamber-reamers-order-any-freebore-neck-nopix-/13750-5-x-303-epps-chamber-reamer-order-any-freebore-neck.html

Maybe check here:

http://www.303british.com/id6.html

Listed are a variety of .303 British based wildcats that may have reamers and dies available in UK, Canada, South Africa or Australia. I can't imagine that Pacific Tool and Die make 6.5 Epps reamers for a reasonable price if there aren't any dies around.

http://rcbs.com/Products/Dies-by-Category/Special-Order-Dies/Group-G-Special-Order-Bottleneck-Cartridges/Full-Length-Die-Set-Group-G-Special-Order-Bottlene.aspx

RCBS lists .25/.303 and 6.5 Epps.

[andym79]

Yes available but for a lot more than $0 for reamer and $40 for 6mm remington dies at Midway

[john.k]

You dont say where in Oz you are..........however I suspect if you contact an old established gunsmith business ,they may have reamers etc for 303/243.I also suspect someone like W .Marden P/L will have dies..............I had a Martini in 243/303,the barrel came from a smelly ,and I fitted it myself.......it was a common enough caliber once,not as common as 303/25 to be sure.....

[longbow]

Check with 303guy and JeffinNZ. 303guy is in Australia and Jeff is in NZ. Both seem to know a lot about .303 British/Lee Enfield conversions and the .303 Brit has been necked up and down to about every bore there is from .22 to .44.

6mm Musgrave (6mm/.303) dies are listed by Titan Reloading for $28.89 US:

https://www.titanreloading.com/6mm-musgrave-3-die-set-steel

So dies are affordable but no... if you want a reamer for $0 I think you are out of luck. I'd agree with john.k. If Lee makes dies then there must be guns around and if there are guns around there is likely a reamer or two around that can be rented or that a gunsmith can chamber a gun for you with but not for $0.

[andym79]

I did a zero rifle I meant not having to spend $200 just for the reamer

[EDG]

The #4 rifle is widely acknowledged to not be a good action to convert to 7.62 Nato due to the higher operating pressures.
It would be easy enough to get a load of .444 Marlin brass and form it in a 6mm Rem FL die. But the 6mm is one of the highest pressure factory rounds so you would need to keep the pressures down. A rimmed .257 Roberts would work just as well.
The problem is you would not have anything special. You could buy a ready made .243 just as easily.
I would be more inclined to build something unique that I cannot easily buy.

[Texas by God]

You can load .243-303 using 6mm Rem dies. You can rent a reamer for $30.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Multigunner]

I toyed with the idea of converting a No.4 to 6.5X57R many years ago.
If a handloading only proposition it would pose no problems at all but the factory maximum COAL is longer than the magazine of the No.4 and maximum pressures of factory loads are a bit higher than the No.4 is usually comfortable with.

Single loading factory rounds to obtain a stash of reloadable cases probably wouldn't damage the action but I wouldn't feed it a steady diet of max loaded rounds.

I couldn't find a surplus Mauser barrel in 6.5 suitable for fitting to the Enfield receiver at the time or I'd have gone ahead with it.
Didn't want to start from a blank which I now believe would be the best way to go in any case.

BTW
I checked how well the No.4 fed and cycled the 7X57 rimless cartridge and found it worked perfectly in my rifle. Not pushing all the way home of course, and the extraction and ejection was also perfect.

[Reverend Al]

If you have your heart set on 6x57R or 6.5x57R then brass is not an issue. Years ago there were a number of Brno combination guns in my area that were chambered in 12 gauge x 7x57R, but no ammo or brass was to be found. A simple pass of an annealed .303 British case through a 7x57 die using a .303 shell holder produced reformed 7x57R and we got those guns shooting. Another pass through a 6.5 or 6mm die would produce your desired end cases. Sourcing a suitable reamer for either of those calibres might be a bit tougher though ...

[john.k]

Some here will know this ,but in the mid sixties Sako made a No4 conversion in 243W.....apparently as a special order for the Australian importer.......the guns arrived in military form,and I believe slow sales led the importer to sporterize the guns with Bishop stocks...........anyway ,the sporters are still to be found ,often with beatup locking lugs if used much,but if in mint condition are now pricey collectors items.........

[303Guy]

The great thing about a 6 or 6.5 x 57 is that decent velocities can be obtained with moderate pressures. If it were me, I would look at a 25 x 57. There you would be looking at over 3000 fps with 100gr bullets. Bullet choices are a bit limited though so that would be enough reason not to go that route.

I once turned the rim off a 303 case and grooved it and it fed and extracted in my gun just fine. In another action I found a 308 case does not eject but a 7.5 Swiss case does. That bolt has a shorter extractor claw I think. As far as I know, No4 target rifles chambered in 7.62 NATO only had a longer extractor claw fitted (they were single shot so magazine feeding wasn't and issue).

I should mention, I have a 25/303 with a SMLE profile barrel on a SMLE action and with 87gr bullets this thing shot sub-MOA at 200yds. It did have a small mini-suppressor fitted which would have dampened muzzle vibration.

[PAT303]

Lack of reamers and dies!

Tobler barrels in Robertson can do both.

[nekshot]

This is of no value to any one but me when I mess around with my enfields I think they should have bigger bores to go with the function of the action. Good solid no nonsence action. Smaller bores in my mind should look like the smaller actions and better eye appeal. Sorry for this rant and yes I recently took my pain meds and kinda feel like singing!

[303Guy]

This is of no value to any one but me when I mess around with my enfields I think they should have bigger bores to go with the function of the action. Good solid no nonsence action. Smaller bores in my mind should look like the smaller actions and better eye appeal. Sorry for this rant and yes I recently took my pain meds and kinda feel like singing!
I agree but then again, the 25/303 is a pretty cool looking cartridge. I can see the 6 or 6.5x57R as super cool. I toyed with the idea of a 375/303. The neck is completely ironed out without changing the body taper. I also toyed with the idea of a 6.5x57R.

[PAT303]

303Guy, google 375 No2.

[303Guy]

https://i.postimg.cc/QxS1yFgR/375-303.png (https://postimages.org/)
38 Hawking

https://i.postimg.cc/9QnTcsnb/375-303-H-H.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
The longer 375 H&H

There is a 375/303 version with a blown out case to form a shoulder. I would go with the 38 so as to have a long neck, so to speak. I believe these work without any action mods.

I still like the idea of a 57 rimmed case in one of its forms for turning the Lee Enfield into a high velocity rifle.

[Ecramer]

Why not 6.5x53 Mannlicher? It is on the same cartridge head as .303