.410/.444 Marlin?

[EMC45]

Have heard of it done and I believe that there have been people here that have done it. I have some 444 cases and was wanting to load some for the .410. I trimmed 2 down to 1.825 and would like to throw a charge of 2400/Red Dot/Green Dot etc. What do you guys think? I was thinking a LR or LP primer drop powder then a cardboard wad then shot then another cardboard wad with mild crimp and maybe a touch of glue? Let me know. Thanks Evan:-D

[Old Ironsights]

The .444 case works fine in a .410. It is already shorter than the crimped 2.5" .410 shell and while the rim is slightly smaller, most extractors/ejectors still get enough grip in it to work if the case isn't stuck.

A .444 case will also will take more pressure than a .410 full brass case. What you can't do with it is load a slug into it. .429 through .410 is bad juju. ;)

Pics:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/IMG_5143.jpg
The last case is the .444.

[EMC45]

So what do you suggest for a crimp? Slight crimp over wad or a overshot wad and some Elmer's? I was thinking of cutting a bunch of wads from cardboard and floating them in some melted beeswax for a wax wad idea. What say you, good idea? I have an old single shot .410 (it's actually my brother's) and that was gonna be my test platform. I need to make a shotmaker for my 20 and 12 loads and then this if it works out.

[Old Ironsights]

Elmers is fine. I wouldn't crimp the mouth if you can help it. Deforms the shot too much.

Waxed cardbord makes good wads, but bad over-shot cards... the glue won't stick.

You could also look at & ask Junior about his Felt Wads. http://www.castbullet.com/wads.htm

[Baron von Trollwhack]

That's odd above. When I tried it the 444 rims were too thick to close the bolt on my Savage?

BvT

[Old Ironsights]

Worked on my Win 9410. If you have a short/worn extractor there might be problems. The rim IS slightly smaller, but not significantly so.

[woody1]

I have two 410's, an old Stevens bolt action and an much older IJ Champion. The 444's work in both. You just have to try it and see if yours will work with 444's. Problem I have with the IJ is that the chamber is so rough the brass cases stick badly so I can't use 'em in it. For a load, most any "recipe" you find for plastic cases will be safe in brass with card wads (IMO). Remember too, with card wads you won't get near the seal you do with plastic wads and the new fangled hulls. Use lots of cardboard and keep it tight. I have cut my wads with a sharpened 45 case. I also use a 7/16" gasket cutting punch. Regards, Woody

[EMC45]

That's what I was thinking about for the cutter. I have some steel Wolf ACP cases and was gonna cut them from it. Stack for my wad column and seal at the top for the shot. So basically my goal is to press wad onto powder charge, pour shot, place card and glue it. sound good?

[Old Ironsights]

That's what I was thinking about for the cutter. I have some steel Wolf ACP cases and was gonna cut them from it. Stack for my wad column and seal at the top for the shot. So basically my goal is to press wad onto powder charge, pour shot, place card and glue it. sound good?

Yep. But I would use at least one Felt wad (or a THICK cardbord one) between the powder/over-powder card & the shot as a shock buffer.

That or a single over powder card, a small amount of farina then an over-buffer card, shot and an over-shot card.

You need a little buffer material to protect the shot.

[EMC45]

What I have now is the short (1.825) shell loaded with 14 gr. 2400 with a piece of cardboard over powder and then the shot(1/2 oz) then another piece of cardboard. No Elmer's. How bout some Krazy glue? I have some of that. http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm243/Evansguns/102_1909.jpg

[Old Ironsights]

Wouldn't use Krazy Glue. Ditto for Gorilla or other such stuff. Residue will be a PITA to get off the cases.

You WANT water soluable for the most part.

Got any Wood Glue?

There is a recepie on the 'net somewhere for "egg glass" or some such which is how the oldtimers used to do it...

[EMC45]

Other than the glue is there any unforeseen problems with what I have so far? The reason I cut these 2 down was they were 375JDJ cases and I had to get rid of the neck. I ran them through my 44Mag expander and voila- no neck, but it did distort them a bit. So I hacked off the offensive part and trimmed them on my case trimmer. I would like to hit the squirrel woods with the .410 bore, But I will not pay 13 bucks for a box of shells!!!!

[woody1]

Other than the glue is there any unforeseen problems with what I have so far? The reason I cut these 2 down was they were 375JDJ cases and I had to get rid of the neck. I ran them through my 44Mag expander and voila- no neck, but it did distort them a bit. So I hacked off the offensive part and trimmed them on my case trimmer. I would like to hit the squirrel woods with the .410 bore, But I will not pay 13 bucks for a box of shells!!!!

I'M WITH YOU ON THE PRICE OF 410'S. I'd not worry about a little distortion in the brass. The first shot will prob'ly iron it out. Best loads will have something between the powder and shot with a little "give", although current factory plastic shotcups are just that, shotcups with no collapsing section. Throw in a wad or 2 or 3 depending on space of styrofoam wad on top of the card and top with another card before adding shot. I've used nail polish on the overshot wad on starling loads using 44 mag. brass. With care they worked OK. Regards, Woody

[Slowpoke]

That's odd above. When I tried it the 444 rims were too thick to close the bolt on my Savage?

BvT

I had to thin the rims on both .303 and 444 marlin, but now they work good.

I chucked them up in the drill press with a mandrel and attacked them, armed with a file and a caliper.

good luck

[uscra112]

I bought two boxes of brass .410 cases at Cabela's. Cut a few down for use in my .44 Shot Stevens boy's rifle. (Known as a Model 101, but basically a CF version of the Model 12, which has an action like a mini-Maynard. Real nice little guns they are. But not to hijack the thread - the brass IS available, if you look for it. No need to go reforming other stuff, other than it's fun to do.

[Slowpoke]

Have heard of it done and I believe that there have been people here that have done it. I have some 444 cases and was wanting to load some for the .410. I trimmed 2 down to 1.825 and would like to throw a charge of 2400/Red Dot/Green Dot etc. What do you guys think? I was thinking a LR or LP primer drop powder then a cardboard wad then shot then another cardboard wad with mild crimp and maybe a touch of glue? Let me know. Thanks Evan:-D

Here is a good thread on the subject, Turbo 1889 really gets into it.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=156249&sid=c250b7985fd2b7fc704ee2428955dd04

good luck

[twotoescharlie]

overshot card,then 3 or 4 drops of waterglass (sodium silicate).

TTC

[Old Ironsights]

Other than the glue is there any unforeseen problems with what I have so far? The reason I cut these 2 down was they were 375JDJ cases and I had to get rid of the neck. I ran them through my 44Mag expander and voila- no neck, but it did distort them a bit. So I hacked off the offensive part and trimmed them on my case trimmer. I would like to hit the squirrel woods with the .410 bore, But I will not pay 13 bucks for a box of shells!!!!

Win AAHS is only $9 here... still....

I don't see any problems with your loads in my gun. I can't/won't speak for the safety of them in your gun.

But it seems more than reasonable to me. I loaded more than 16gr LilGun in my SLUG loads... so your load would not be a problem in MY gun.

Go buy some elmer's and have fun. :drinks:

[shotman]

here is a couple of things the head on a 410 and a 444 is not the same thickness is more on a 444 . If you cut it down you will need to go to L pistol primers. The LP mag may be ok. But on a tight closeing single the L rifle primer could fire before the barrel is closed. there is about .005 or .006 difference in the height of the 2. as for a over shot wad if you fill shell with shot and set in refg for about 1/2 hr then take melted canning wax and pour SLOWLY on top it will seal fine. Dont get wax to hot or you will make a slug.-- shotman

[woody1]

If thinning rims is necessary, thinning from the "backside", the side toward the muzzle, doesn't change the primer pocket depth. I use large pistol primers to light off my 410's in the 444's. Regards, Woody

[schuebob]

Take a birthday candle and drip enough wax into the mouth end and press in uniformily with your finger before it solidifies. Works nicely, water proof for the most part. Don't leave finished round in the sun or car window. Wax will either burn or lube the bore and cleans out lickety-split. I use one-half Oz. of #2 shot for bushy tails in my original hex barrel T/C contender .410 with external choke. Only takes one pellet and we got tree rat stew, pronto. You will possibly notice some expansion deformity to the case, so use the same cases in the same chamber and you are good to go. With any luck, I'd expect a long useful life on the brass if you never resized them. Sraight wall brass usually does not 'flow' like bottle-neck brass does, so overall length is overlooked by this shooter, as T/C chamber is 3". bonne temps rollez!

[Pioneer2]

There is an indepth article on this under endtimes report.They used styro-foam egg carton material for overshot wads and pistol primers in .303 and .444.............picked up some .444 dies and will get after this project some as it gets warmer than -30F........................Harold

[DLCTEX]

I use Dap tub and tile caulk to seal the overshot wad ( cut from styrofoam carry out tray) when loading shot loads for 45 ACP. Let dry and I have experienced no debris left in the bore or on the case. DALE