CWD and You

[Hickory]

I have been debating for the last 4-5 years on whether to stop deer hunting or not because of CWD. These, below, are the findings but I don't trust them, what with fake news the way it is.
It would just like the left to sku this in such a way as to kill off hunters by having hunters eat tainted meat to turn us into zombies.

Heck, if that were to happen it might cause those infected to vote democrat.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/in-2005-about-200-people-ate-zombie-deer-meat-heres-what-happened/ar-BBTUdnG

[gbrown]

Thanks for posting this. I have read of CWD in some herds in W. Texas, and wondered about it. Here's an article with a little more objective approach.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/what-we-know-about-chronic-wasting-disease-in-deer#page-3

[nannyhammer]

I'm all about what I can verify. If CWD readily jumped the species barrier why haven't we heard anything about CWD positive coyotes, wolves, raccoons, etc? Also CWD has existed in several states for decades but you still don't hear anything about clusters of CJD that occur in those areas. I think the best option is just don't eat sick looking deer and hopefully at some point we'll get better answers.

[Shawlerbrook]

I live about 50 miles from the incident in the MSN article. The diseased deer were from a deer farm that escaped to the wild. The NYSDEC has been monitoring since that incident and has not detected any further diseased deer, animals or people. I think you have a better chance getting killed in your car than getting CWD from eating venison.

[brewer12345]

CWD has been around in Colorado for quite a while. The state wildlife department now has mandatory testing in some areas and voluntary (for a small fee) everywhere else. I took my doe head in for testing last Fall. I plan to continue doing so. Do I think CWD jumps species at this point? Doesn't seem to be any evidence for it. That said, you can't be too careful. My guess is as time passes we will learn more about this thing and wildlife agencies will figure out how to best manage herds to minimize it.

[brewer12345]

Looks like research is actively being pursued: http://www.wlbt.com/2019/02/22/possible-chronic-wasting-disease-cure-found-lsu/

[Hickory]

I have never seen it in print nor heard anyone compare CWD to mad cow disease but I wonder if the two are connected in any way?

[brewer12345]

They are both prion diseases, so it is possible.

[MT Gianni]

It is always beneficial to find more than one published, accredited sources when dealing with health issues.

[Fernando]

My son is a wildlife biologist and he said nothing can be proved yet but he wouldn't eat it
if it tested positive - He was involved in the states testing and data program - if you hunt and area
that is thick with it I would have it tested first. Food pantries around here won't even touch it anymore.
I quit eating venison years ago after living on it for a decade or so - I can still do a backstrap or nice
jerky but that's not enough to validate killing one so far - Been getting the urge though and am
working on a new cast canon and might go north where in hasn't shown its head yet.
They're even considering a bounty on deer here.
If you get one tested and it comes up ++
Hunter gets $1000
Land owner gets $1000
Tester gets $300
These figures aren't final and it has only been proposed.
I would imagine the insurance companies will try to help push this.
The way I see it the only way to get rid of it is to wipe the herd out and start over.
And that ain't happinin!

[JBinMN]

Can Humans Get CWD?

Though many observers try to compare CWD with “mad cow disease”, the diseases are distinctly different. Currently, there is no evidence that CWD poses a risk for humans; however, public health officials recommend that human exposure to the CWD infectious agent be avoided as they continue to evaluate any potential health risk.

The World Health Organization has reviewed available scientific information and concluded that currently there is no evidence that CWD can be transmitted to humans. During the period 1997-1998, three cases of sporadic Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD) occurred in the U.S. in young adults. These individuals had consumed venison. This led to speculation about possible transmission of CWD from deer or elk to humans. However, review of the clinical records and pathological studies of all three cases by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, Georgia, did not find a causal link to CWD.

Nonetheless, health and wildlife officials advise caution. Hunters are encouraged not to consume meat from animals known to be infected. In addition, hunters should take common sense precautions when field dressing and processing deer or elk taken in areas where CWD is found.

More information on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention website. http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol10no6/03-1082.htm


Source:http://cwd-info.org/faq/
---------------------------

We've eaten deer pretty much every year since the late 70's. Sons were raised on it in the winter, along with many other game birds, animals + fish. We don't eat "apparently sick" game. ( who would?) There has been CWD reported less than 25 miles from us, and less than a mile or so from where we used to live( same area) within the last 10 years or so , but this CWD has only started becoming apparent in the last 10 years or so, IIRC. I do not know where it is coming from, but it is apparently here. { There "was" a large game farm located right near the location I am talking about between Pine Island,MN & Oronoco,MN where we used to live, and that is the presumed origin of the CWD. BTW, there is a smaller, but still decent sized game farm about 7 miles East of me & has been for the last 21 years. We've hunted about 2 miles or less from that farm for the last 21 years. NO reported cases of CWD near there.}

The MnDNR has special hunts to try to eradicate most of the possibility of CWD in a certain area by having special hunts & checking every deer killed for CWD. There are studies done on the amount of deer killed & the amount of CWD found in those deer, but I do not have the data to share here. One would have to go research it. I do not think it is a large amount since it would have been more widely reported if it was.

There is also an area of CWD down further in SE MN from me about 70 miles So., this year where they are allowing a special hunt to do the same attempt at eradication thru hunting & testing as the earlier hunts I mentioned. I have not yet heard of those results as that hunt just ended about 2 months ago. {within 10-15 miles or less from my oldest sons home, but he has yet to hunt the area, although we did hunt one year in that Houston County area back in the late 90's on a buddies, Jimbo M. uncle's land. My oldest got his first deer down there.}

I do not intend on stopping hunting or eating venison, nor other wild game. It is a personal choice and each of us has to decide what we think is good in our diet, including parents/guardians for their children/wards. IMO, the chances of getting another food oriented illness or medical condition from other foods is likely higher than contracting CWD. Simply, "by the odds", since most all eat so much of the other foods, as compared to the amount of venison consumed.

Suit yourselves though. Like I said, a "personal choice". It is not gonna stop me though. YMMV, of course.

[trapper9260]

Parts of Iowa have the same thing of special hunts for the CWD and the ones that dose do the hunts gets to keep the meat ,but was told to cook the meet well .

[Wis Tom]

I would be more worried about what you are eating, from the processed supermarket. My son cuts up meat, for a local supermarket, and he said don't eat the beef, that comes from Mexico, stamped USDA approved. He also said don't ask why. That is my personal opinion only, but the foods we get are not all healthy, so I feel I have as good a chance, eating a healthy deer, harvested by me, as I do picking from stuff I don't have any clue, where and when, it came from.

[MaryB]

Only beef I eat anymore comes form a local rancher, butchered by a small local butcher who is so confident in his cleaning he will eat raw ground beef right off the grinder(I asked if he would eat a rare burger).

CWD hasn't made it to SW MN yet so I still eat deer...

[BrassMagnet]

Can Humans Get CWD?

Though many observers try to compare CWD with “mad cow disease”, the diseases are distinctly different. Currently, there is no evidence that CWD poses a risk for humans; however, public health officials recommend that human exposure to the CWD infectious agent be avoided as they continue to evaluate any potential health risk.

The World Health Organization has reviewed available scientific information and concluded that currently there is no evidence that CWD can be transmitted to humans. During the period 1997-1998, three cases of sporadic Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD) occurred in the U.S. in young adults. These individuals had consumed venison. This led to speculation about possible transmission of CWD from deer or elk to humans. However, review of the clinical records and pathological studies of all three cases by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, Georgia, did not find a causal link to CWD.

Nonetheless, health and wildlife officials advise caution. Hunters are encouraged not to consume meat from animals known to be infected. In addition, hunters should take common sense precautions when field dressing and processing deer or elk taken in areas where CWD is found.

More information on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention website. http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol10no6/03-1082.htm


Source:http://cwd-info.org/faq/
---------------------------

We've eaten deer pretty much every year since the late 70's. Sons were raised on it in the winter, along with many other game birds, animals + fish. We don't eat "apparently sick" game. ( who would?) There has been CWD reported less than 25 miles from us, and less than a mile or so from where we used to live( same area) within the last 10 years or so , but this CWD has only started becoming apparent in the last 10 years or so, IIRC. I do not know where it is coming from, but it is apparently here. { There "was" a large game farm located right near the location I am talking about between Pine Island,MN & Oronoco,MN where we used to live, and that is the presumed origin of the CWD. BTW, there is a smaller, but still decent sized game farm about 7 miles East of me & has been for the last 21 years. We've hunted about 2 miles or less from that farm for the last 21 years. NO reported cases of CWD near there.}

The MnDNR has special hunts to try to eradicate most of the possibility of CWD in a certain area by having special hunts & checking every deer killed for CWD. There are studies done on the amount of deer killed & the amount of CWD found in those deer, but I do not have the data to share here. One would have to go research it. I do not think it is a large amount since it would have been more widely reported if it was.

There is also an area of CWD down further in SE MN from me about 70 miles So., this year where they are allowing a special hunt to do the same attempt at eradication thru hunting & testing as the earlier hunts I mentioned. I have not yet heard of those results as that hunt just ended about 2 months ago. {within 10-15 miles or less from my oldest sons home, but he has yet to hunt the area, although we did hunt one year in that Houston County area back in the late 90's on a buddies, Jimbo M. uncle's land. My oldest got his first deer down there.}

I do not intend on stopping hunting or eating venison, nor other wild game. It is a personal choice and each of us has to decide what we think is good in our diet, including parents/guardians for their children/wards. IMO, the chances of getting another food oriented illness or medical condition from other foods is likely higher than contracting CWD. Simply, "by the odds", since most all eat so much of the other foods, as compared to the amount of venison consumed.

Suit yourselves though. Like I said, a "personal choice". It is not gonna stop me though. YMMV, of course.

YES!!!
Prion diseases are all closely related. Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathy (TSE) is the family of the prion disorders. Mad Cow, Scrapie (sheep), Feline Spongiform Encephalopathy (cat), and Variant Creutfeld-Jakob (vCJD), and Creutfeld-Jakob (CJD), and KURU are the only ones I have researched.

[BrassMagnet]

YES!!!
Prion diseases are all closely related. Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathy (TSE) is the family of the prion disorders. Mad Cow, Scrapie (sheep), Feline Spongiform Encephalopathy (cat), and Variant Creutfeld-Jakob (vCJD), and Creutfeld-Jakob (CJD), and KURU are the only ones I have researched.
Kuru, CJD, and vCJD are in people. KURU was passed by cannibalism in Papua New Guinea. The difference between vCJD and CJD is the age of the victim at clinical symptom onset. CJD is for old folks and vCJD is for young folks.
Members of the canine family appear to be immune due to no confirmed cases. However, I have found one source that claims dogs are at risk and one source that claims wolves can eat CWD infected animals with no disease transmission.
Known cases have infected people, cattle, sheep, antelope, elk, deer, and mountain lions. Infected animals seem to be at high risk of predator kill and road kill even while exhibiting no symptoms. Early symptoms increase the risk. Squirrels and raccoons are suspected of infection, but I have not seen documentation to prove it.
There is no known way to kill prions. Not bleach. Not autoclaves. Not incineration. Not even at 1100 degrees Fahrenheit plus! There is no known way to kill prions!
Prions can be encapsulated to reduce exposure. Imagine a clay lined ditch full of animal parts covered with more clay. This is important because plants can bind to prions and have the prion a part of the plant and not just on the plant. Imagine a cornfield where the prions are in the kernels of corn!

Now on to some takeaways we can consider. There are at least three identified strains of CWD in deer alone. Some strains may be more virulent than others. Some animals may also have more than one strain and this could make a species barrier jump easier. Some tissues have far more prions than others. In KURU, women and children were more likely to eat organ meat that men. Men had lower infection rates than women and children. In KURU, after the cannibalism stopped, people continued to die of KURU for decades! This is a slow killer! Could the time to death from a prion disease depend on the amount of prions consumed? CJD was first described in 1920 in Germany and they can't identify the cause 85% of the time. Maybe it has been here forever and we just died of other causes first.

Now on to some observations we can consider. The CWD impact on deer cannot be overstated. CWD spreads faster in areas with large deer herds. CWD infected deer drool constantly and this drool is infectious. Bucks are more at risk. CWD can result in buck fatality so extreme there are no harvestable bucks. With high percentages of infection you will also reach high fawn fatality rates. Feeding deer spreads CWD. Don't feed the deer!

Why have I researched TSE?
A lady I knew died of vCJD back in the 1990s. She was a friend's wife.
I also own land in a CWD area. I don't hunt there.

[Reg]

These are my thoughts and will throw them out there for what ever they may be worth which most likely isn't very much.
CWD was first spotted here in Colorado and only but a couple of miles from where I live.
When it first came out everyone got all excited and a few like myself stopped hunting deer, didn't think it was worth the risk, we just sat back and decided to watch and see where this went.
According to the F&G a few animals were found to have it but in recent years it hasn't shown up much at all but the warnings are still out there and it is recommended that you have the head checked and you wear surgical gloves when skinning and gutting. Also bone the meat so as not to come into contact with brain or spinal fluids.
I enjoyed the yearly hunting and do miss it and have often wondered just where in the heck this could have come from in the first place. It has never shown up before so there had to be a logical reason.
Two things I have noticed.
We are a big corn producing area, same with wheat and also have a couple of the largest feedlot operations in the area along with a few smaller operations as well.
Have you ever been around a serious feedlot operation ?
The cattle are fed often several times a day a tightly controlled diet designed to put on weight as quick as humanly possible. Generally a mixture of ground corn ( locally produced to save transportation costs ) a roughage to add bulk and a mixture of various chemicals called additives designed to boost this rapid weight growth. All of this is designed to give you a good valued product at a reasonable price also allowing the producers to make a reasonable profit.
There is nothing wrong with this concept except we know for a fact when you mess with mother nature there is a price to be paid.
In short when you create this kind of unnatural rapid growth just what else are you doing.
An interesting point to note is there was no CWD around here until these big feedlots came out here and started pumping chemicals into the cows.
Have you ever been around a big feedlot operation ?
The daily ration of feed is delivered to the feed bunks for the cows in feed trucks. They use augers to transfer the feed to the feed bunks and in the process it is not uncommon for a little of the prepared feed to fall to the ground.
If you wanted to go deer hunting around here a good place to start is in areas near either the corn circles or the feed lots. No they normally do not stay near feedlots but rather travel to them.. They do stay in the corn circles . More on this in a bit.
Most wild animals if given the chance for a free meal will take it and the free meal is there almost on a daily basis will keep on taking it and around feedlots the dropped daily ration is what they zero in on. They too get the corn, the roughage and the chemicals.
Have you ever been around irrigated corn circles?
Expensive to operate but man the production especially in the last few years has been fantastic, 200 to 250 bushels per acre is generally the accepted and getting more has happened.
How. Water of course and selected GMO seeds and again, more chemicals. There again, rapid growth.
Deer love corn circles. When I was still hunting them that's where I would head to. Generally they would come out of the circles in the evening and getting a nice one was merely a matter of selection.
In the last few years this area has been a producer of some of the biggest bucks one could ever imagine and especially in the last year or two I have seen some of the wildest non-typical heads you could ever imagine. Last fall I watched the biggest craziest multi point head I could have ever imagined. Record book level, no doubt.
We never had animals around here like that before, Yes you would get a non-typical now and then but nothing like what is out there now.
Why ?
If you get where I am going with this is my thoughts are all of the above can be directly related to the use of chemicals in our modern farming operations. You mess with nature you will pay a price.
GMO seeds to start with then pump on more chemicals and yes, you do get a lot of cheaply produced product but also are we producing something that can do to the human race that it is possibly doing to the deer ?
They say if that is what makes the deer they way they are why doesn't it effect the cattle the same?
Does it ?
How old is that cow at the time of slaughter ? They say it dosn't show up in the wild until the animal is four or more years old. No cow is kept for four years until slaughter, not in the modern scheme of production.
In Europe, they don't want our corn or our beef. They don't trust our usage of chemicals. They say it is unnatural.

To the above I have nothing to back up any of it other than what I have seen.
Does anyone have a different idea ???

[Hickory]

I haven't been idle on this subject and I think there maybe link.
Although the link so far is only a theory.
The theory is that factory farms have just been dumping their dead animals on their property and left to where scavengers feed on them and even consuming the brain and or spinal cord matter that could spread prion disease. How it makes the jump to deer is unknown.
There are 6 factory farms within 5 miles of my house. Not a good thought when you are drifting off to sleep at night.

[Gewehr-Guy]

Now the severe winter has driven the deer into large herds,and that usually doesn't contribute to the overall deer health. My neighbor has about 250+ around his farm, and about 40 of them are in my feed every night. Most of the ones hanging around my place are young ones, and they are getting pretty brave, they sleep all around my house at night,and paw through the snow to graze the lawn. I don't have a dog now, but might have to get one if I wan't any chance of raising a garden this year.

[BrassMagnet]

These are my thoughts and will throw them out there for what ever they may be worth which most likely isn't very much.
CWD was first spotted here in Colorado and only but a couple of miles from where I live.
When it first came out everyone got all excited and a few like myself stopped hunting deer, didn't think it was worth the risk, we just sat back and decided to watch and see where this went.
According to the F&G a few animals were found to have it but in recent years it hasn't shown up much at all but the warnings are still out there and it is recommended that you have the head checked and you wear surgical gloves when skinning and gutting. Also bone the meat so as not to come into contact with brain or spinal fluids.
I enjoyed the yearly hunting and do miss it and have often wondered just where in the heck this could have come from in the first place. It has never shown up before so there had to be a logical reason.
Two things I have noticed.
We are a big corn producing area, same with wheat and also have a couple of the largest feedlot operations in the area along with a few smaller operations as well.
Have you ever been around a serious feedlot operation ?
The cattle are fed often several times a day a tightly controlled diet designed to put on weight as quick as humanly possible. Generally a mixture of ground corn ( locally produced to save transportation costs ) a roughage to add bulk and a mixture of various chemicals called additives designed to boost this rapid weight growth. All of this is designed to give you a good valued product at a reasonable price also allowing the producers to make a reasonable profit.
There is nothing wrong with this concept except we know for a fact when you mess with mother nature there is a price to be paid.
In short when you create this kind of unnatural rapid growth just what else are you doing.
An interesting point to note is there was no CWD around here until these big feedlots came out here and started pumping chemicals into the cows.
Have you ever been around a big feedlot operation ?
The daily ration of feed is delivered to the feed bunks for the cows in feed trucks. They use augers to transfer the feed to the feed bunks and in the process it is not uncommon for a little of the prepared feed to fall to the ground.
If you wanted to go deer hunting around here a good place to start is in areas near either the corn circles or the feed lots. No they normally do not stay near feedlots but rather travel to them.. They do stay in the corn circles . More on this in a bit.
Most wild animals if given the chance for a free meal will take it and the free meal is there almost on a daily basis will keep on taking it and around feedlots the dropped daily ration is what they zero in on. They too get the corn, the roughage and the chemicals.
Have you ever been around irrigated corn circles?
Expensive to operate but man the production especially in the last few years has been fantastic, 200 to 250 bushels per acre is generally the accepted and getting more has happened.
How. Water of course and selected GMO seeds and again, more chemicals. There again, rapid growth.
Deer love corn circles. When I was still hunting them that's where I would head to. Generally they would come out of the circles in the evening and getting a nice one was merely a matter of selection.
In the last few years this area has been a producer of some of the biggest bucks one could ever imagine and especially in the last year or two I have seen some of the wildest non-typical heads you could ever imagine. Last fall I watched the biggest craziest multi point head I could have ever imagined. Record book level, no doubt.
We never had animals around here like that before, Yes you would get a non-typical now and then but nothing like what is out there now.
Why ?
If you get where I am going with this is my thoughts are all of the above can be directly related to the use of chemicals in our modern farming operations. You mess with nature you will pay a price.
GMO seeds to start with then pump on more chemicals and yes, you do get a lot of cheaply produced product but also are we producing something that can do to the human race that it is possibly doing to the deer ?
They say if that is what makes the deer they way they are why doesn't it effect the cattle the same?
Does it ?
How old is that cow at the time of slaughter ? They say it dosn't show up in the wild until the animal is four or more years old. No cow is kept for four years until slaughter, not in the modern scheme of production.
In Europe, they don't want our corn or our beef. They don't trust our usage of chemicals. They say it is unnatural.

To the above I have nothing to back up any of it other than what I have seen.
Does anyone have a different idea ???

Cannibalism.
Downers went to the rendering plant, got turned into a protein, and the protein was added to animal food in the feedlot's food.
Mad Cow in Britain started with rendering a dead antelope imported from Montana.

[BrassMagnet]

A link to an article indicating likely caused by rendering induced cannibalism:

https://drgeoffnutrition.wordpress.com/2018/10/09/mad-cows-and-englishmen-the-british-bse-crisis/

Not the original article I read, but same cause minus exact detail.

[gbrown]

One thing I would add, is that the large cattle lots and the game farms feed animals with commercial feed products. These are designed to enhance weight gain and in game animals, antler growth. To do this they add protein additives. These protein additives come from the offal and parts of slaughtered animals not used for human consumption. Early in the Mad Cow disease scare, this was identified as the probable source of contamination of healthy animals. Animals put down with prion diseases were sent to processing plants that turned them into protein additives. In Europe, they don't allow it. Supposedly, its not suppose to happen here, either. However, I have my doubts.

[BrassMagnet]

One thing I would add, is that the large cattle lots and the game farms feed animals with commercial feed products. These are designed to enhance weight gain and in game animals, antler growth. To do this they add protein additives. These protein additives come from the offal and parts of slaughtered animals not used for human consumption. Early in the Mad Cow disease scare, this was identified as the probable source of contamination of healthy animals. Animals put down with prion diseases were sent to processing plants that turned them into protein additives. In Europe, they don't allow it. Supposedly, its not suppose to happen here, either. However, I have my doubts.

^^^This is a very good description of the problem.^^^

[BlackPowderLove]

This is from a great outdoor cook (I LOVE his recipes and philosophy on cooking wildgame). https://honest-food.net/chronic-wasting-disease-and-humans/

[dale2242]

I recently talked to the local deer biologist from the Oregon Department of Fish & Wildlife.
He is the resident expert on deer diseases.
There has, so far, been no known cases of CWD in Oregon.
He told me that there have been no known cases of CWD being transferred to humans.
He also says it is recommended not to eat meat from deer with a known case of CWD...dale