How I polished my dies.

[Bazoo]

I have always got some fine scratches from my rifle dies. Ive tried steel wool on a bore brush spun in a drill, very fine sandpaper on a split stick, and scotch bright pad on a cleaning rod both spun by a drill. None of which really worked. It probably didn't work because the fit wasn't tight enough on the spot it needed polishing.

With these things I had some improvement however so I just dealt with it and used my dies anyway. Until I noticed the scratches were worse the other day. I cleaned the die with remoil as normal, and did the steel wool on a bore brush thing again. Then I commenced to ponder, where am I getting grit and debris from?

The only place I could figure is dust from the tumbler. I normally wipe off the cases with a rag, but I figured I'm missing some dust, then when I finger lube with Imperial I'm just smearing what dust is left all over. So I looked at my tin of case lube and could see specs of foreign matter in it. I took my bench file and used the flat end to carefully take the first 1/16 inch or so of lube off the top of the tin. I had to go after a few errant specs specifically but figured that was part of my solution right there. Then I started wiping the cases off with a damp paper towel. It catches all of the dust.

Then I figured I needed to polish the die, and I'd been pondering on how to do it since I don't have a lathe. Lyman dies have a plug that holds the expander stem. I reversed the stem in the plug so it pokes out the top of the die and removed the expander button. Then I was able to chuck that in my drill and spin the die. I took a 1/4 dowel and split the end with a razor to hold the end of some fine sandpaper, folded the paper under and used the dowel for backing. I sanded the inside of the die with 1000 grit wet/dry paper and used remoil for lube, for 20/30 seconds, cleaned the die and sized a case (less the decapping rod) to check. Much better but not quite where I wanted it so I repeated the operation. Now I have scratch free 30-30 cases. I did my 30-06 die too while I had the decapping stem chucked in the drill to use for a mandrel.

This probably won't work with all dies but it sure worked on Lyman dies and might with some others. Just thought I'd share.

Bazoo

[EDG]

I have polished dozens of dies using 400 grit to 600 grit silicon carbide wet or dry paper wrapped around a wood dowel with a coping saw slit in it. Use the wet or dry paper wet with a light oil like WD-40. The light oil you use is not critical but it helps keep the paper cutting.

I have spun the dies like you have plus in a drill press but most are just polished in a lathe.

[ReloaderFred]

I've been using Varmint Al's method of polishing dies for over 20 years, maybe longer, and I've restored numerous sizing dies with his method. I've done several for friends, as well.

Here's the link: http://varmintal.com/arelo.htm#Polish

Hope this helps.

Fred

[cwtebay]

Has anyone else used valve grinding compound? I use it on a gauze 4x4 attached to a dowel in my drill. Thought of it while helping a friend with an engine job a few years ago. I like the results!

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[EDG]

My goal of polishing a die is not necessarily to put a cosmetically bright surface on the interior of the FL die.
Rather I use the process to remove raised internal burrs created by scratches and corrosion.

I use a 1/4" dia wood dowel with a 1 " long slot cut by a coping saw. One end of a 4" to 6" long piece of 400 grit to 600 grit silicon carbide paper is put into the slot and the rest of the strip is wrapped round the dowel. The dowel is used in a manner so that the straight length of the dowel conforms to the interior surface of the die body. This cuts down the raised burrs inside the die without washing out the existing profile as you may get with a soft bob. If you want a bright finish follow the first piece of paper with a piece of 1000 grit to 1200 grit silicon carbide paper. Then rinse the die body out well a couple of times.
Always use the silicon carbide paper wet with a light oil to improve the cutting and prevent the paper from loading with debris.

Don't think this is a really special process. You can feel your way along as long as you spin the die.
The maximum I ever spent was about 3 or 4 mins on a badly rusted die that I got on Ebay. Even that die works fine after being polished to knock the rust out.

[metricmonkeywrench]

Wrote up what I found a while ago. I subsequently got the course grit model as well

Link (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?364362-Die-Clean-up&highlight=Flex-hone)

[country gent]

For most true polishing valve grinding compound is pretty abrasive and not graded as well as lapping compounds or other polishes. I use a true silicon carbide lapping compound the grit depends on the die and what I need to remove. Light rust flitz or simichrome polish on a flannel patch and mandrel. light scratches I may start with 400-600 grit. for heavy scratches or re radiusing the mouth 240-320. sand paper works okay here. I have also used diamond compound and cratex mounted points with the die mounted in lathe and hand held die grinder to do radiuses. I have also lapped with fired cases to change basic size when the dies seem to oversize brass.

The one thing to remember is that a light polish that removes the least material to accomplish the job leaves more if for some reason it needs done in the future.

Some of my older more used dies size easier than the newer low round count dies. I think this is partly from the fine finish the brass puts on the dies over time. Its a polish job that cant be duplicated.

Lapping compound can be a problem in that its sold in pint sized cans a lot for 1 persons hobby use. Diamond dust isn't bad quanity wise but can be expensive. Flitz and simichrome are good but very fine. I had a post on lapping moulds that described how to grade lapping compounds from grinders broken down wheels that lays around every bench grinder using light oil and 2 jars or bowls. This gives a small supply of various grits as you go. It isn't hard to do but is time consuming.

Some of the dies I've made have very fine finishes and very hard surfaces. Some of my factory dies have rougher finishes I suspect to help hold lube in place.

On carbide rings diamond is the way to go not much else cuts it reliably.

[Bazoo]

Not having access to a lathe, figuring out about reversing the decapping stem was a breakthrough for me. I'd not seen or heard of it before, but as EDG mentioned I'm sure I want the first to figure it out. The 30-30 die in question is a new die and it is pretty rough inside. It sizes without scratching now however.

Thanks for all the replies, it's quite interesting to me.

Bazoo

[Walks]

I'm going to try the flitz on my Lee Bullet Sizers, they are scraping off the PC.

[Bazoo]

I've polished several lee bullet sizing dies with fine sandpaper and polishing compound spun with a cleaning rod section in a drill. It helped a lot for the amount of force needed. I don't PC but I size them unlubed before tumble lubing.

[cwtebay]

For most true polishing valve grinding compound is pretty abrasive and not graded as well as lapping compounds or other polishes. I use a true silicon carbide lapping compound the grit depends on the die and what I need to remove. Light rust flitz or simichrome polish on a flannel patch and mandrel. light scratches I may start with 400-600 grit. for heavy scratches or re radiusing the mouth 240-320. sand paper works okay here. I have also used diamond compound and cratex mounted points with the die mounted in lathe and hand held die grinder to do radiuses. I have also lapped with fired cases to change basic size when the dies seem to oversize brass.

The one thing to remember is that a light polish that removes the least material to accomplish the job leaves more if for some reason it needs done in the future.

Some of my older more used dies size easier than the newer low round count dies. I think this is partly from the fine finish the brass puts on the dies over time. Its a polish job that cant be duplicated.

Lapping compound can be a problem in that its sold in pint sized cans a lot for 1 persons hobby use. Diamond dust isn't bad quanity wise but can be expensive. Flitz and simichrome are good but very fine. I had a post on lapping moulds that described how to grade lapping compounds from grinders broken down wheels that lays around every bench grinder using light oil and 2 jars or bowls. This gives a small supply of various grits as you go. It isn't hard to do but is time consuming.

Some of the dies I've made have very fine finishes and very hard surfaces. Some of my factory dies have rougher finishes I suspect to help hold lube in place.

On carbide rings diamond is the way to go not much else cuts it reliably.country gent: I grabbed the jars of polishing compound I was referring to and see that it's actually headlight restoration paste, listed as 1800 grit. And a quick search for Permatex lists it as much courser. So thank you for the correction.
This thread did make me remember that a 44 American resizing die I have has a single defect near the top of the die. So far I have buffed out the case itself rather than risk oversizing the die. Any tricks to address a single nick?
Thank you.

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[Baltimoreed]

Used a couple of pieces of 600 grit and a split dowel to open up an old sacrificial saeco .4515 bullet lube die to .452 yesterday. Planning on repurposing a gifted Lyman 45 sizer the size PC .45 boolits. Never done this to a die before and was surprised how easy it was to remove the steel.

[mdi]

I have not used any flitz that I can remember, ust didn't have any handy and usually had some 400 grit polishing compound around. I just looked for flitz on line and saw it was $19.00 for a small tube. I'm not cheap, and I know a little goes a long way, but $19.00? Sorry, not me. Then I remembered a polish I used a lot on my bikes; Semi-chrome. Has anyone a comparison or tied semi-chrome vs flitz? Semi-chrome worked quite well on aluminum, chromed and nekkid steel parts and is about 1/2 the price of flitz...

[EDG]

I spent 5 years running an engine lathe before spending the next 40 as a manufacturing engineer.
I have developed production processes for many parts and products using a variety of materials including Flitz and Happich Simichrome.
Both Flitz and Simichrome are best for getting an already smooth surface polished to a high reflectivity.
Neither material cuts hard steels like a FL die very fast. They work best on plastic and aluminum and other soft materials. For polishing hard steel I have mostly used silicon carbide paper backed with a flat bar on the OD of a part and I used it wrapped around a wood dowel on the inside. For small IDs you sometimes have to roll the paper into a tight stem on itself and use it without a dowel.
Be sure to use a light oil to improve the rate of cutting and the paper will last longer. Use coarse paper 120 to 180 for rough work and 320 to 400 for medium. 600 and above grits for fine polishing of steel.

Many use emery cloth but I will caution against it for safety reasons. Greenhorns like I once was will often use a too long piece of emery cloth. There is a danger of getting the emery cloth strip wrapped up in both your spinning work piece and your fingers. I nearly had a thumb pulled off by it. If you have to use emery cloth use only a small 2" square or similar. A long strip of it is dangerous.


I have not used any flitz that I can remember, ust didn't have any handy and usually had some 400 grit polishing compound around. I just looked for flitz on line and saw it was $19.00 for a small tube. I'm not cheap, and I know a little goes a long way, but $19.00? Sorry, not me. Then I remembered a polish I used a lot on my bikes; Semi-chrome. Has anyone a comparison or tied semi-chrome vs flitz? Semi-chrome worked quite well on aluminum, chromed and nekkid steel parts and is about 1/2 the price of flitz...

[Bazoo]

I sized a batch of casings last night and after a while the scratches returned. I wiped each case with a dry rag, used imperial and tried my darnedest to keep contamination out of the die. I was working at the kitchen table instead of my bench. I brushed the inside of the necks and tapped each case. I'm very careful when emptying the lee hand press not to get dirt from the primer catch in the die also. Any ideas where I'm getting contamination from?

I haven't cleaned my die yet but I will clean it thoroughly and see if it's just in the lube and not scratched the die itself.

[Stephen Cohen]

I polish all my dies with 1000 or 2000 wet and dry with a split dowel, I also strip and clean my dies a couple times a year and lube. I never put a shell into my dies until they have been de primed and tumble cleaned with a citric acid and dried, carbon and grit are the enemy to dies. Regards Stephen

[EDG]

If you have grit in your Imperial from leaving it out you will continue to get light scoring.
You might try 2 things.
1. Wash and rinse your cases to remove all grit from them especially if they have been ejected on the ground.
2. Try a new can of Imperial.

I always wash and rinse my cases and keep my Imperial free of grit. I get no scratching unless from a used die that needs to be polished.


I sized a batch of casings last night and after a while the scratches returned. I wiped each case with a dry rag, used imperial and tried my darnedest to keep contamination out of the die. I was working at the kitchen table instead of my bench. I brushed the inside of the necks and tapped each case. I'm very careful when emptying the lee hand press not to get dirt from the primer catch in the die also. Any ideas where I'm getting contamination from?

I haven't cleaned my die yet but I will clean it thoroughly and see if it's just in the lube and not scratched the die itself.

[Bazoo]

I did have grit in my imperial, but I removed the topmost layer and thought I got it all. If I shine my flashlight and inspect it, I don't see any more specs of dust. I suppose it could be finer than I could see. I have some Hornady one shot I can try as an alternative. Shame to think about throwing out an almost full tin of imperial. Thanks for the idea. I did use a dry rag to remove the tumbling dust this time instead of a wet one. I'm sure the wet would be better but Its more of a pain. It don't take long to dry that way though and that's a plus.
Thanks for the ideas.

[mdi]

Just a WAG, but what would happen if you melted the sizing wax, just enough to get it liquid and allow it to settle? Many times impurities will sink. Or melt and filter (coffee filter)?

[Bazoo]

Not a bad idea. Coffee filters are plentiful round our parts. I'm keeping a log of what I try so I can narrow down the source of the contamination. A few light marks aren't much to worry about, but it was perfect so I'd like to get back to that. Nice when my ammo looks as good or better than store bought. I'm not into wet tumbling yet, but it may come to that.

[15meter]

And if you think the dust is from the tumbler, start throwing dryer sheets in the tumbler. The sheets pick up the dust and fines. A new one every batch in the media and pretty soon you have no more dust on your cases.

I also drizzle a half/full cap full of NuFinish car polish in the media at the END of a polishing session. Run the tumbler for several minutes to mix, than leave the tumbler uncovered for any remaining solvent to evaporate. Next time you are ready to go.

Don't add the polish than start polishing cases immediately, I wouldn't know for sure, but I think with small bottle necked cases (like 204 Ruger) the damp media might clump up in the case.

Or so I was told[smilie=1:

[Conditor22]

I'm going to try the flitz on my Lee Bullet Sizers, they are scraping off the PC.

Walks, I'd start by sanding the entrance to the dies, rounding them of and getting them smooth 400 - 600 grit then try the polish. I usually just work up to 1000 - 1200 grit and don't polish.

Used drier sheets work well in the tumbler also. I went to wet tumbling and never looked back.

[David2011]

A tablespoon or so of mineral spirits added to the tumbler media in addition to the Nu-Finish goes a long way to reduce dust and grit.

[OS OK]

Bazoo,
when the brass comes out of the vibrator they are dumped in a plastic colander. I shake the colander to get all the walnut out and into the pan below.
From there, I go to the compressor and flip the colander like a chef flips fried eggs in a pan as I blow them with the air nozzle. Can't say what percentage of the dust is eliminated but having done this for years my dies are still scratch free.
I do the wet pin tumble also, love to see those cases clean inside and out...sparkling...now the walnut is much less used.
Catching that foreign matter in the lube tin was a good catch too.

[mattw]

Could you actually have a little speck of galled brass inside the die? Dies are pretty hard and not easy to scratch and a scratch would be away from the brass, not pointing out toward the brass. I have had this happen a couple of times and the best way I have found to fix it was to chuck up a wooden rod with fine paper taped to the end so it can form a spiral. After a discussion with an RCBS tech, I really inspected the inside of the die and was able to find the brass blob stuck to the side. Now, did I forget to lube a case or did my lube not work on that first case that started it? I don't know, but I did not like the scratch, it was deep and will always be in those cases.

[RED BEAR]

Now yall done it.never considered polishing my dies but loading them up and headed for the garage know what i am doing today.

[mdi]

I have a small shop, just 12'x18', and I notice when I tumble, sift and handle the brass I can get a fine dust around the shop. Normally it doesn't matter because all my reloading tools are in tool boxes or covered. I also keep the lid on my sizing lube. I've used dryer sheets, and mineral spirits, but often don't bother because the door is usually cracked a few inches and a small fan is going...

[25ring]

Most of my case scratching went away when I switched over to stainless steel pins for my case cleaning duties.Cases come out perfectly clean inside and out with no dust or grit on the outside of the case to introduce scratches.

[country gent]

Allowing grit to settle out of the melted Imperial may take longer than you think. Part of the process of grading lapping compound is a bowl of light oil ( much thinner than melted wax) and carefully gently adding grinding waste ( the dust and build up around the base of a grinder) and letting it settle for a set amount of time. This process will have grit settling out over 8 hours. the longer the time the finer the grit. Fine air borne grits and dust may take days to settle out.

To clean the imperial I would recommend wrapping it in a weighted cheese cloth sheet several layers thick then boil until the lube is floating on top of the water give it 5-10 mins after this then turn off and let cool don't disturb during this. Lube will flow thru cheese cloths while contaminants stick to or in cheese cloth. Lube will float to top of water. when cooled it will solidify on water and can be lifted off to a paper towel to dry. I a small clean container it can be melted back into the tin.

The big problem with polishing a die is some are only case hardened a very shallow amount. And you start getting to softer material quickly. This base metal scratches easily.

Brass build ups and rough surfaces can show as scratches and or burnish marks. As can dirts and grits. For a material to cut it has to be harder. Emery , Aluminum oxide, flint and silicon carbide are harder materials that break down at different rates to stay sharp ( these are common abrasives in sand papers and lapping polishing compounds) When lapping the abrasives imprtgnate into the softer material of the lap and cut the harder materials. As these materials break down they cut finer. A light oil or water will keep them cutting cleaner and freer.

To little lube or a insufficient lube sizing ( a fine line here between stuck cases and just right) may show as burnish or rub marks also. On a freshly polished die the polish lines are at their very deepest and hold the most lube. as more cases are sized these polish lines smooth out and less lube is required. The polish lines pattern itself is as important as the polish itself is in preventing scratches. A pattern where the lines cross over in a figure 8 shape allows lube to flow and a smoother transition over them. ( similar to the difference between standard filing and draw filing). Polish lines in rings or parallel to die completely don't allow this flowing movement.

[Conditor22]

I have a small shop, just 12'x18', and I notice when I tumble, sift and handle the brass I can get a fine dust around the shop. Normally it doesn't matter because all my reloading tools are in tool boxes or covered. I also keep the lid on my sizing lube. I've used dryer sheets, and mineral spirits, but often don't bother because the door is usually cracked a few inches and a small fan is going...

You get dust all over your shop! imagine what you are breathing (unless you wear a mask the whole time your in your shop. that's why I switched to wet tumbling.

[mdi]

You get dust all over your shop! imagine what you are breathing (unless you wear a mask the whole time your in your shop. that's why I switched to wet tumbling. Reread my post. When I tumble I have a fan on and the door cracked, and when it'd not raining I open a window behind the fan. But this is only when I use my Lyman wobbler. There is no dust from my rotary tumbler.

I believe "breathing dust from my tumbler" is Chicken Little thinking, and I refuse to live in a huge HEPA filter. If there is a danger it is so remote it's inconsequential.. Unless you live on a mountain top somewhere remote you will be breathing some air pollution (Jet Stream carries some pollutants to the West Coast from Japan). As a mechanic working for a large city that was very safety conscious (CYA more than employee care) we were trained often on many preventative measures for our health, and a lot of in depth info was given, like particulate PPMs and lung disease. Brake jobs were covered almost annually (breathing brake dust, clutch work, painting, etc.). Even though if I use the wobbler to clean my brass I am breathing much less dust or pollutants than many homes. That is unless I do my deep breathing exercises with my face over the wobbler...

[mjwcaster]

Don't add the polish than start polishing cases immediately, I wouldn't know for sure, but I think with small bottle necked cases (like 204 Ruger) the damp media might clump up in the case.

Or so I was told[smilie=1:

It doesn’t just clump up small cases, it will create blobs of media in 45acp.
I now add the nufinish to the dryer sheets, rubbing it into them.
A little goes a long way, but when runny in the summer heat the nufinish bottle can spit out a large glob.
I then just spread it on the dryer sheets and toss it in the tumbler with just media for a few minutes to distribute.

My current operation for cleaning range brass-
Rinsing in water
Cleaning in citric acid
Rinse in hot water (shortens drying)
Drying (in the sun is the fastest)
Tumbling in cheap walnut lizard litter with
Nufinish
Used dryer sheets
Splash of mineral spirits
Inspecting/sorting cleaned brass
Storing in sealed container (to keep out spiders/insects)

It might be overkill, but I enjoy nice shiny brass.
Easier to inspect and find in the grass.
Plus it just looks good.

And the nufinish tumbled brass sizes much easier.