Loading for the .45/70 Sharps

[Captain*Kirk]

Hi all, it's been a while...
While I'm certainly not new to black powder, casting for it, or reloading, I'm brand new to the world of BPCR, having just purchased a nice used Pedersoli 1874 Sharps. I'm wanting to load BPCR for it, and if I know one thing, it's that the best way to get good info is to flat out admit I don't know squat about casting or loading for BPCR. While a fairly extensive search here found me a lot of really good and informative threads, probably the best thing is to explain what I have and what I'm looking for and take it from there...

The gun: Dixie Pedersoli 1874 Sharps in .45/70, 1:18 twist, vernier tang rear sight and globe front with spirit level

The use: I don't shoot match or competition, either paper or silhouette but would like to work up a load that would do either proud. Distances; would like to be able to ring a gong at 400 yards or print on paper at same. Would also not rule out hunting whitetails at up to 150 yards, but primary use will be making smoke, noise, and grinning while I'm doing it.

The cartridge: Planning on using 2F with a decent 500 grain or better bullet; I ve been told the 500 grain boolits outperform the 405's in this rifle by any number of experts (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I'd like to experiment with a number of options before investing in a mould so will probably experiment with commercially available cast boolits prior to jumping in the deep end, as those moulds appear to be rather pricey compared to my normal black powder stuff.

There you have it...educate me as if I was a complete dummy (not too much of a stretch of the imagination, really) [smilie=1: as to what boolits, brass, powders, lubes, primers, etc work well with this particular rifle. I am also not ruling out paper patching but I figure I should learn to crawl before getting upright.
Thanks in advance.

[sharps4590]

Conservatively, there's probably about 50 different ways to load black in cartridges and most work pretty darn good. I think the first thing I'd recommend is getting SPG's Black Powder Cartridge Reloading Primer and/or anything by Paul Matthews. I can only assume there's other publications out there but those two were the first, as far as I know, and are still among the best.

I started shooting BP in cartridge rifles before the SPG Primer came out and at that time was ignorant of the Matthews books. When I did get the SPG Primer and applied Mike & Steve's methods things took a decided turn for the better. A couple of Matthews books were added later. I've tried both methods and like either one, equally. Eventually I settled on loading the way Mike & Steve do.

Briefly, I think you will need a 24 inch drop tube, a funnel, if you don't already have one, I believe you should use either Swiss, pricey stuff but good. or Old Eynsford. Not nearly as expensive and for my purposes just as good as Swiss. I don't like Pyrojunk, period, and won't recommend it though others have excellent results with the stuff. I've read charged cases can be vibrated and the powder settled that way and that the results are good but I've never tried it. I just always used a drop tube. Don't leave an air space between powder and bullet. For simplicity and starters I'd recommend the Lyman 457125 bullet. It has shot good in every 45 I've tried it in. I'm pretty certain they can be bought from several sources if you don't cast. 61 grs. of 2F of whatever powder you choose is a good start with that bullet in the 45-70. Bullet lube should be soft and I've had good luck with SPG. I have as good results with soft home made lubes. There's others out there apparently just as good but I have no experience with them. I cast all my bullets for BPC's at 25-1 and it's worked good in every rifle I've tried it in. A card wad of anywhere from .020 to .060 should be placed over the powder to protect the base of the bullet. You can size the cases and seat the bullets as normal or not size the cases and finger seat the bullets.

Those are the basics. Once a fella gets his feet wet he usually starts playing with seating depths and/or having the bullet engage the rifling for some amount, different weights of powder charges and different amounts of compression....and the list of things one can vary is almost endless. One can pursue them almost to his distraction or, find a load your rifle likes and blissfully go about ringing your 400 yard gong and shooting little groups in paper. I believe of all handloading, loading for BPC's is probably the one that is most like a journey rather than a destination.

[Edward]

For starters I"m new too (3yrs) started with my C Sharp 1874 1-18 twist 45-70 shooting Greasers (Lubed) 535gr Lyman Postell 20-1 alloy /BP lube (lots of choices) over a .60 poly wad /65-70 grains2F OE BP /starline brass/CCI LRP . Then learned paper patching a whole different direction . I am going to play with a reduced band version of the Postell this spring .Google B.A.C.O/ Buffalo Arms a great place to spend money on quality molds ! You will learn here on this site all about drop tubes /compression /ect .I now use 1 1/2 F OE black powder (mostly) and like I said I"m new too/Ed

[country gent]

I have a cabellas Pedersoli 74 sharps long range rifle. 34" barrel half round 1-18 twist rate. Very accurate rifle. The SPG manual is good and has some load data in it also. Randolph S Wrights book Loading and Shooting the Paper Patched Bullet A Beginners Guide. It deals more with the Paper Patched bullet but the techniques are still good for Grease Grooved bullets. It is very good.
Let the rifle tell you what it wants. 2 f is a good starting point but don't rule out 1 1/2F or even 1F. Also test goex, Olde ensforde, and swiss brand powders if possible.

A good bullet of 500 grns to 550 grns will do the job you want. The old standby given and recommended by many is the Lyman 457125 round nose. The lyman postel at 535 does well also. I have a Old West mould by Bernie Rowels that drops his 547 grn silhouette style bullet. those are the 3 45 cal bullets I use the most. Winchester is the thinnest brass I have found and has the most capacity, Starline is good also. I use Remington large rifle standard primers.

What I would recommend as to load is start with a given bullet. The lyman 510 round nose is a good choice here. Start with primed brass and a charge of powder that just fills the case to the base of the bullet with a .060 thick wad seated on it. Seat bullets and test. A chronograph can be a big plus here. Work up in 2 grn increments to the best 2 loads and test at the mid point of them. Work for a velocity in the 1150 fps to 1200 fps.

My load is starline brass annealed, trimmed. flash holes deburred and primer pockets uniformed. Rem Large rifle primer hand seated. 62 grns of 1 1/2F Olde Ensforde powder dropped into case with 3 ft drop tube. A .060 Napa rubber fiber gasket wad is started in the case and powder compressed with a compression die to allow for bullet.2 tracing paper wads are then added. Bullets are cast from 20-1 lead tin and spg lubed. I pan lube and shoot as cast. I also hand seat the bullets onto the wad stack. I set neck tension after the bullet is in place. Bullets don't fall out but can still be turned in case. This load has an extreme spread of 12 fps.

Buying bullets from makers may not give you the mould number or maker. A add in swapping and selling for 45 cal bullets to test with will get you bullets, mould maker, mould number, alloy and lube used so they can easily be duplicated. For lube I use SPG or Emmerts Improved.

Enjoy the trip its a ball.

[Lead pot]

Capt. K
Well come on over and spend time with us here :) Yes it's a 2-1/2 hr drive for you but several from your location come and have fun.https://fusion.realtourvision.com/tour.php?tourid=168140&referrer=tinyturls.com There are a few of us that shoot black powder front stuffers and suppository cartridge rifles and there is a CBA activity monthly if this is your interest also.
https://www.tcgc.net/
Kurt

[rfd]

...

welcome to the single shot dark side. my commented reply to your questions ...

The gun: Dixie Pedersoli 1874 Sharps in .45/70, 1:18 twist, vernier tang rear sight and globe front with spirit level

typically a good gun, i have several now and have had lots more previously.

The cartridge: Planning on using 2F with a decent 500 grain or better bullet; I ve been told the 500 grain boolits outperform the 405's in this rifle by any number of experts (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I'd like to experiment with a number of options before investing in a mould so will probably experiment with commercially available cast boolits prior to jumping in the deep end, as those moulds appear to be rather pricey compared to my normal black powder stuff.

lyman has proven .45-70 greaser moulds on the cheap - for up to 200 yards or so, the 405 grain 457193, for distance the postell 457135. cast at 1:30 or 1:20 for starters. i'd recommend the postell.

as already mentioned and as others will continue to mention, there are lots of ways to build a good cartridge that will yield consistent accuracy at near or far marks.

if the case is new or has never been fired in yer gun, make sure it will chamber, straight expand the mouth to .460 to simulate it as fire formed (BACO has these xpander plugs for lyman "M" dies). as with any starting load, make up a dummy round to sort out the cartridge's max OAL. that will tell the max powder to drop tube into the case.

after loading the compacted BP, add the wad(s) of yer choice and compress to the depth the bullet will be seated (BACO has compression plugs for lyman "M" dies). perhaps add in 1 or 2 newsprint wads to buffer the wad from the bullet base (make sure the bullet's base is dry and clean of any lube). push in the bullet. strive for very little neck tension. if the bullet is loose, run the cartridge into a taper crimp die to *squeeze* the case mouth a tad (not crimp) in order to better hold in the bullet. it usually pays to orient the brass in the chamber, too.

after firing and cleaning the brass, reload as is - don't resize.

good luck and above all, have fun!

cheers,
rob.


~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

[Captain*Kirk]

Thanks for all the responses and comments! This is a whole new trail from my normal BP and smokeless activities and looking forward to it. Lots of great info here and I can't wait to get started!

[Randy C]

I have The Old West mould by Bernie Rowels that drops his 547 grn silhouette style bullet It shoots great, He has several other weight bullets that I shoot also. He will help you get started and sell you some bullets, and or a mould. He trained me in casting, I was driving through town and stop in there, he's a good guy most BP guys are. He can help you or any of us will, call him or send a pm to one of us and I can send you some bullets and chat. I shoot GOEX cartridge grade I buy it at
Coonie's Explosives & Black Powder Inc
Phone: (575) 393-0166
https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/

[mack1]

I am very new to BPCR also so will not offer any loading advice as it would not be as good as what has already been posted, but I think the consistency of my wiping routine also has a big effect at longer ranges. This has made load development a challange because sometimes its hard to tell what variable is affecting the shot.

[mazo kid]

I am very new to BPCR also so will not offer any loading advice as it would not be as good as what has already been posted, but I think the consistency of my wiping routine also has a big effect at longer ranges. This has made load development a challange because sometimes its hard to tell what variable is affecting the shot.
That is why you change only one thing at a time. Shoot that load, record results. Change another thing, keeping everything else the same, shoot that load, record results. The shotgun approach to load development simply won't work because, as you say, you don't know what variation is causing good or bad results.