Is it common to have to resize 45 acp brass several times at once

[Rustynails]

I am wondering if it is common to have to resize brass with several pulls of the single stage press arm in order have it pass a go - no go head space gauge? I'm new to reloading and always thought it only took one time to size a case.
Also I have seen many cases pass the head space test once sized, but after a few days sitting out, they fail. Can brass move once it is sized? I had to resize several primed rounds with several pulls of the press arm to get them to pass. Is there a specific brand that this happens to more often? Is it just bad? Or is my Lee sizer die not working like it should?
I'm using range brass with several different head stamps and case thickness. My die is set up correctly according to the directions. Is this something that just happens?

[tazman]

I have never heard of that one. Sorry.

[Baltimoreed]

Invest in a .45 acp Lee Bulge buster push through die, I have .45 autos, revolvers and carbines [which are very hard on brass]. I always run my loads through the lee die and they work in anything. It irons out all the damage and imperfections especially at the head where your sizing die can’t reach. Use a single stage press bolted down tight cause sometimes they don’t want to resize. Not a Lee fan but these work.

[Omega]

I am wondering if it is common to have to resize brass with several pulls of the single stage press arm in order have it pass a go - no go head space gauge? I'm new to reloading and always thought it only took one time to size a case.
Also I have seen many cases pass the head space test once sized, but after a few days sitting out, they fail. Can brass move once it is sized? I had to resize several primed rounds with several pulls of the press arm to get them to pass. Is there a specific brand that this happens to more often? Is it just bad? Or is my Lee sizer die not working like it should?
I'm using range brass with several different head stamps and case thickness. My die is set up correctly according to the directions. Is this something that just happens?I think it depends on what fired those cases. I have found that in the 5.56 military cases the ones fired in the SAW take a bit more to resize. Also, it seemed to me, when I converted 5.56 to 300 Blk using my Lee dies I would have to size, turn, size again. It may have been the same SAW issue with those as well though. The SAW has a slightly bigger chamber so brass expands just a bit more, and brass does have a bit of spring-back, though it's usually pretty fast, haven't heard of them springing back after being stored. Maybe your brass was fired in a larger chambered weapon?

[Hossfly]

I think Omega nailed it, fired in larger chamber.

[jmorris]

Most fails with a case gauge will be the rim. This is because if you are not using a roll sizer or push through, you are not sizing that part because it’s in the shell holder.

Turn the case around backwards and give it a twist in the gauge and try it again.

FWIW using the barrel, you won’t find these problems because there is no contact. However, that may or may not fail to enter the breech face.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/DSC02128.jpg

So you have rounds that “plunked” into the barrel just fine yet you have a “mystery malfunction” at some point because it doesn’t fully chamber because of a defect on the rim.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/DSC02130.jpg

It is fairly rare in any case and doesn’t take long to clear but you only have to loose one match by a few tenths of a second because of one and you will case gauge every round you fire in competition.

[Rich/WIS]

Three variables here:

1. Sizing die dimensions
2. Gauge dimensions
3. Chamber dimensions

Correct gauge for your rounds is the chamber, load a few dummies and "plunk" test them in the pistol chamber. Watch seating depth so you are not jamming the bullet in the rifling. If they drop in and out you are good to go. If not then you have another issue.

Mike the sized case and compare to a new cartridge and also to SAAMI spec for the round. If way out try a different sizing die.

One common issue frequently raised in this and other forums is "it don't fit the gauge". You are reloading the ammo to shoot in your gun, and if it fits and works then you are good to go. The gauge is only useful if it has the same dimensions as your chamber. Curious if you tried a factory round in the gauge and how it compares to your ammo.

[lightman]

I've never had that problem with 45's but I have with 9mm's and 40 S&W's.

[mdi]

Put the "gauge" in the drawer and use the barrel of your gun as a gauge. I reloaded revolver ammo for quite a few years before I got a 1911 and having never thought about chambering, I though I had to have a case gauge. I fought my brass trying to get it to go into the gauge (Wilson) and was only successful 1 out of 4 or 5 cases. I tried different dies, RCBS, but that only cut down the "bad brass" to 1 in 7 or 8. I read about the plunk test and now 25 years later my case gauge still resides in a drawer somewhere and i get good ammo for my 3, 45 ACP guns with a simple plunk test...

[Walks]

When I was a kid in the early 1960's, we used to go out to Arizona to visit an old Shipmate of My Dad's.

He had an old Thompson M1 Submachine gun. We would bring out a couple thousand rounds of .45ACP loaded to max with 225gr RN from a H&G 8cav mold. Cast of Linotype.

When we got home, We'd lube & size every case in a Lyman steel size die on an old Comet press.

Then lube & size again on an old Lachmiller press in a
(don't remember) steel size die.

Didn't have T/C size dies for a couple more years. They sized a bit more then the old steel dies.

Now Lee has their push thru sizing system. Great for removing that Glock smile.

I bought the Redding die system for 40S&W before the Lee came out. Now I have the Lee for .45ACP & 9mm.
They all work great.

Try a Lee.

(BLASTED **** tablet)

[Walks]

Plus one on the plunk test. I do that in all auto loading handguns.
Ya just use the bbl with the tightest chamber.

[Rustynails]

Thanks to all: It is a bulge at the head of the case(s). I will plunk away, but first I will get a bulge buster to bust all those bulges.
Problem solved! Thanks

[Taterhead]

It is not common to need to resize more than once, and case dimensions should not drift after a few days.

Regarding the sizer settings, if using a progressive turn the die down so that the shell plate lifts the tool head completely so that all the slack is gone. Not quite cam over. For a SS, the die should just make contact with the shell holder. Instructions for carbide dies tend to say to go a partial way from contacting the shell holder/plate, but that doesn't get the sizer down low enough.

Kerplunk tests in barrels are useful, but a gauge I also useful to give information about whether rims are enlarged or nicked. I've done like jmorris indicate: Drop the case into the gauge backward. Small nicks can be smoothed by a little twist. For the straight wall rimless cartridges, a lot of Intel can be gleaned from dropping a case into a gauge backwards.

If it is a true bulge or smile, those cases should be tossed. They are not safe to reload even after pass through sizing.

http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/cross-section-of-a-smiley/

[ioon44]

"If it is a true bulge or smile, those cases should be tossed. They are not safe to reload even after pass through sizing."

I agree with this statement, good brass is plentiful no need to risk using over stressed brass.

[Dragonheart]

Sizing die brands do make a difference. Way back when I ran into a case that wouldn't chamber check after going through my sizing RCBS die I would simply throw the case in a box. Sometime later after purchasing my Dillon 450 press in the 1980's I purchased a set of 9mm Dillon dies. I started to notice that it seemed like I was having fewer cases that wouldn't chamber check. This prompted me to take my box of bulged reject cases and run them through the Dillon sizer. All the cases were not magical fixed, but a large number of them would now pass the chamber check. It appeared the Dillon sizer went just a tad further down on the case, enough to make a difference. Since then the Bulge Buster appeared on the market for straight wall cases and solves the bulge problem. I pick up range brass and my brass gets mixed in with the brass from other club members, so I run all my cases through the bulge buster. If it is sized, bulge busted and length checked then you should never have a chambering problem due to the case.

[mjwcaster]

While a case gauge can provide useful information my only one sits unused in a drawer also.
When I started reloading I bought a 45acp gauge.
One day I was reloading a new brand of cast bullets and didn’t have my pistol with me to plunk test.
The rounds passed the gauge fine so I reloaded a batch.
At the range one of the bullets jammed so hard into the rifling that it took me a few minutes to free up the slide (non existent leade in Xd45).

Those rounds passed the gauge but not the barrel.
Use what you want, just know that a case gauge does not tell the whole story.

Edit- and no I do not have to resize 45 brass multiple times, and I use range pick up brass shot in who knows what gun.
But be aware that all tools have different specs/tolerances and sometimes are even made outside of spec.
I have had dies that do not resize the case enough, both in 9mm and 380, a different die fixed the issue.



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[Dieselhorses]

YES, brass moves. Or at least mine did one evening after flaring necks for 50 45 ACP cases. Slugs fit fine that evening before seating, next day I had to flare again.

[JBinMN]

Some terms that some folks in this topic might want to research a bit, if they are not aware of them are:

"neck tension brass springback"

It would help knowing a bit more about those terms when reloading. Particularly if one is loading bottle neck rounds specifically, but they will apply to reloading any brass cases.

Some other terms worth looking into is:

"brass strain hardened" , and, "brass annealing", and, "brass work hardening"

{Leave out the quote marks in a search engine. I just put them in there to separate the sets of terms.}

I won't add anymore info, or suggestions than that. If folks want to know more in order to help themselves be educated on some of the aspects of reloading that many do not go in to, but would likely answer some questions for them, and perhaps make them think about such things when certain issues arise, doing a bit of research & reading will be to their advantage.

Just mentioning this for those who might not be aware of such things yet... Trying to help without pushing anything to anyone. just nudging a bit...
;)

[mdi]

Any time there is a fit problem, measure. Measure the OD along the out case body in a few places. This will tell you if you really have a bulge. BTW a gauge is made on the small/minimum SAAMI cartridge dimensions, so unless your guns have "tight" match grade chambers, cases that don't "gauge" will work perfectly in your gun. I wouldn't use a bulge buster, as for thousands and thousands of rounds of 45 ACP loads, many from "once fired", mixed brass, and in 3 guns, I have never had the plunk test fail...

[fast ronnie]

I got tired of checking brass for my .40 S&W. Now I run every single piece through a Lee bulge buster. It's faster than measuring. The .40 seems to be particular about that. I also have one for the .45 ACP, but haven't needed to use it. I bought that one because I had a feeding issue which turned out to be a couple of worn parts.

[marek313]

45acp are usually easy to resize and I never have to do it more then once. The only time I have to do it 3 times is when I'm forming new 300AAC cases out of LC 5.56. Brass spring back is a real thing but usually not something that you notice when resizing 45acp. Unless that brass was fired in some oversized chamber it shouldnt be that hard to resize.

[JBinMN]

I do not wish to sidetrack/hijack this topic, but I just wanted to mention that it seems to me that a "Bulge Buster" die might be swaging/sizing your cast boolit that you took pains to make .001-2 oversize, inside the brass you are trying to take out the bulge from, back down to a smaller dimension, wouldn't it?

I have not had the issues mentioned in this topic, probably since I changed over to using Lee Univ. Expander Dies with NOE plugs to expand & flare my brass for cast boolits & do not use the factory Expander die that comes with the sets, unless I would be loading jacketed rounds.

I am not trying to argue with anyone about the suggestion of using a "Bulge Buster", but it sure seems to me that it possibly could have an effect on cast boolits if you use one to fix the "wasp waist" bulges one can get sometimes when reloading.

I am sure they are great for jacketed rounds though, if needed.

Just thought I would mention it.

I am waiting to see if anyone here who uses them for cast, later on complains about leading due to swaging/sizing down their cast "boolits" ( non plated/jacketed) when using one of those Bulge Busters.

Like I said, not wanting to sidetrack/hijack the topic, just kind of "thinking out loud" but typing this post as I do it...


------------------------------

P.S. - The mention of those terms I put in the last post I made earlier was not directed at anyone in particular, nor was I suggesting that it was the cause of any issues. I was just posting it for those who wish to know more about what might happen as they are re-sizing brass, what might be happening to the brass they are using when they do it & also use the same brass over & over, what could be happening to that brass as well......

[gpidaho]

I do not wish to sidetrack/hijack this topic, but I just wanted to mention that it seems to me that a "Bulge Buster" die might be swaging/sizing your cast boolit that you took pains to make .001-2 oversize, inside the brass you are trying to take out the bulge from, back down to a smaller dimension, wouldn't it?

I have not had the issues mentioned in this topic, probably since I changed over to using Lee Univ. Expander Dies with NOE plugs to expand & flare my brass for cast boolits & do not use the factory Expander die that comes with the sets, unless I would be loading jacketed rounds.

I am not trying to argue with anyone about the suggestion of using a "Bulge Buster", but it sure seems to me that it possibly could have an effect on cast boolits if you use one to fix the "wasp waist" bulges one can get sometimes when reloading.

I am sure they are great for jacketed rounds though, if needed.

Just thought I would mention it.

I am waiting to see if anyone here who uses them for cast, later on complains about leading due to swaging/sizing down their cast "boolits" ( non plated/jacketed) when using one of those Bulge Busters.

Like I said, not wanting to sidetrack/hijack the topic, just kind of "thinking out loud" but typing this post as I do it... Although the Lee bulge buster can be used on loaded rounds, I avoid doing this for reasons mentioned by JB. I run all 9mm or 40 S&W brass that I pick up at the range through a Bulge Buster to weed out brass that has been fired in unsupported chambers. (Easy to feel) Any brass that doesn't pass through the BB easily gets tossed in the recycle bucket. There's just way too much 9mm and 40 S&W brass on the ground to take chances reloading bulged brass. Gp

[jmorris]

I do not wish to sidetrack/hijack this topic, but I just wanted to mention that it seems to me that a "Bulge Buster" die might be swaging/sizing your cast boolit ]

It’s not intended for use with loaded rounds.

[JBinMN]

It’s not intended for use with loaded rounds.

Great! Thanks for answering the question I had! Had me wondering about it...
:)

For some reason some of the earlier posts got me thinking it was being used by some with loaded rounds.
:???:



Thanks again!
:)

[EDG]

Go gauges of the female variety (chamber shape) are always going to reflect the minimum possible SAAMI chamber size. Your pistol chamber will probably never be that small. So it is possible to have ammo hang up on the gauge that will shoot fine.

A go gauge of the male variety (cartridge shape) will always be the size of the largest possible cartridge.

[Baltimoreed]

I’ve used my Lee BB for loaded .45 acp with no issues with lubed cast and PC boolits.

[georgerkahn]

Quite a few years back, in my locale .45acp brass was in short supply, but a shooting buddy heard "through the grapevine" of a large quantity, available in lots of 2,000 cases, which was guaranteed once-fired, at a reallllly low price. Having heard, but not believing, "If it's too good to be true, it most likely isn't" a bunch of us bought a total of 6,000. Yes -- we not only got 6,000, but as it was sold by weight, actually a couple hundred more. All same head-stamp, too. EXCEPT, we couldn't size them. Apparently, they were fired in some sort of a machine gun (???). The solution was we got together and bought a nifty, albeit quite heavy, tool from Magma Engineering -- the outfit which makes the Star lubers, etc. It worked swell, and as a matter of fact I'm still loading and shooting some of this Speer brass. A video of unit is at https://youtu.be/v4L3Kw5u0q4 Not seeing your brass... perhaps it, too, was fired in something not supporting which boogered up your brass as that lot we bought had been. (Ironically, adding the price of brass at time and the machine together was within "pennies" of just buying good brass. Bad being the time and effort; the good, we have a machine never used since :) ).
geo

[RoGrrr]

Rustynails
I shoot several different 45s and several different 9s. I load nothing but range brass and after some bad experiences I learned to size every one of them before loading them on my 650. I've picked up some VERY 'glocked' brass (both calibers) which gave me fits when loading/shooting.
I have a Magma carbide push-through sizer for my 45s and a Case-Pro 100 for my 9s. I have dies for both sizers in both calibers so I can switch them at will. I don't have any problems chambering any of my ammo now.
They BOTH are looking for a new home (as in - FOR SALE) as I plan to buy a new roll-type sizer which will do both calibers and do them faster.

[huntnman]

My Lee Bulge Buster does say for use on loaded rounds. I have done so. First attempts had a pucker factor involved. But using as directions advise, cured a problem I was experiencing failing to chamber.

[gpidaho]

My Lee Bulge Buster does say for use on loaded rounds. I have done so. First attempts had a pucker factor involved. But using as directions advise, cured a problem I was experiencing failing to chamber. I've used the bulge buster on loaded rounds as well. The push ram is cupped so as not to press on the primer. I to was somewhat reluctant to try it but the instructions seem to indicate that this is how the die is supposed to work. Still, it's going to size the cast bullet down and for that reason alone it's not that good of an idea Gp.

[huntnman]

gpidaho thanks for the help. You added what I should have. I bought it to use on empty brass. I used it on about 300 loaded rounds instead of pulling them. QUICK FIX.

[JBinMN]

I've used the bulge buster on loaded rounds as well. The push ram is cupped so as not to press on the primer. I to was somewhat reluctant to try it but the instructions seem to indicate that this is how the die is supposed to work. Still, it's going to size the cast bullet down and for that reason alone it's not that good of an idea Gp.

OK, Keep in mind that I Thank those who took the time to try to address my question(s), I also am concerned about the sidetracking/hijack of the topic(subject) of this thread.

Either it "is" or it "is not" supposed to be used on loaded rounds & perhaps there is some "caveat" that it is fine to use on loaded rounds with plated or jacketed bullets & not so good to use for loaded cast "boolits'.

I recognized from the description of what it does, that there is most likely going to be an issue if loaded cast lead boolits that were "purposely" meant to be oversize for fit to a bore, are run thru it.
I have been told it is not for loaded rounds so that took care of that & others say it can be & perhaps "is" designed for them, since it has the cupped "post" to push them into the die.

So maybe it is one of those deals where certain options are available depending on the situation & what one wants the die to do for the expected results without causing issues down the line.

That was part of the question, and bringing it up was also for the consideration by those who decide to use it & then have issues as a result that are not what was expected. Like leading due to making the boolit undersized by the use of the die.

Anyway, once again, Thanks to gpidaho, jmort & huntnman for the info you shared, even if the replies were a little bit in conflict with one another depending, on the use each one uses.
:)

Op & all... Please forgive the sidetrack/hijack, as it was meant to gain more knowledge & not an intentional mis-direction of the subject being discussed.

[gpidaho]

huntnman: Yes, even cleaning out a leaded bore beats pulling a big batch of loaded rounds. LOL Like you, I use it on empty cases. It's use , as stated in my earlier post is just to weed out the glocked brass I pick up at the range. Always good to hear from you J.B.

[jmorris]

Either it "is" or it "is not" supposed to be used on loaded rounds & perhaps there is some "caveat" that it is fine to use on loaded rounds with plated or jacketed bullets & not so good to use for loaded cast "boolits'.

They say case and show empty cases in the instructions.

https://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/1855.pdf

You are shoving a case completely through their factory crimp die. If you “crimp” just enough to remove the flare/bell and no more, because you don’t want the bullet swaged down by the case, I wouldn’t suggest doing loaded rounds.

[gpidaho]

Ok, we've about beat this to death so this will be my last comment on this thread. I personally don't think it's the best idea to push loaded rounds through anything other than the weapon they are to be fired from. Here is a quote from the Lee instructions posted above by jmorris. Bottom right just above the large LEE." Now slide a resized or LOADED CASE (my caps not Lee's) onto the base of the push pin (case mouth up) and raise the ram to push the case completely through the die." The end. Gp

[RED BEAR]

I got to say this is a new one on me been loading over 40 years and never owned a go no headspace gauge. Never sized anything more than once. Never tried the bulge buster die . I didn't think you could use it on 9 mm as they are tapered. I agree with others if they go in your chamber then your good. I do have a pistol now that i have to really watch my loadings s the case is not fully supported and at the hot end cases will budge dangerously. Can't use buldge buster as they are rimmed. Wouldn't if i could.

[Dragonheart]

I completely agree with those that size & bulge bust every case. I do the same and figure I can spend the extra time in my reloading room and not the time being frustrated on the range with rounds that don't chamber.

BTW: Years ago when I wanted a custom 9mm bulge busting die made I was told that the reason the company would not make it was because the 9mm SAMMI specs. The specs show a 9mm Lugar rim size to be slightly larger than the base of the cartridge, so by SAAMI spec the 9mm Lugar is NOT a straight walled case. For those that believe everything is made to spec check some of your 9mm brass.

[mdi]

I’ve used my Lee BB for loaded .45 acp with no issues with lubed cast and PC boolits.

For every warning/statement there is usually at least one denial. A bulge buster die is much like a Lee push through bullet sizing die. In 35+ years of reloading, for 7 different handgun cartridges, with many thousands of rounds, I have never had any need to resize my handloads with either a bulge buster or an FCD. I do not shoot competition, but I cannot remember any rounds that did not feed/chamber easily (and that's a lot of feeding, chambering, ejecting!)...

But reloading is very personal in the methods used and I guess any tool or method is OK, even if many/most consider them silly. So, it's your ammo, your gun, your time and money, and if you want to paint little happy faces on the bullets to make the target feel better when hit, go for it...

[fast ronnie]

A 9 mm case is tapered. It is not advised by Lee because of possible issues of damaged die, but a 9 mm Makarov bulge buster can be used for the 9 mm, but as I said before, Lee does not recommend it.

A friend of mine does do it.

[JBinMN]

I am glad the OP, Rustynail, got his issues figured out, before it got this far.
:holysheep
Apparently, I created a monster of a sidetrack/hijack...:hijack: And heck, I was satisfied with the answers about the bulge buster die, a while back. Figured everyone else was too... :roll:
I guess it will have to die on its' own now...:violin:
hopefully...