How to price and altered Smith and Wesson triple lock?

[Dpmsman]

I had a friend approach me interested in selling a Smith and Wesson triple lock 44 special. The price he was asking seemed reasonable at $3500 since he said it was a rare revolver made for the Bisley competitions in England. He sent for a letter from Smith and Wesson and when it came it was found that the rear drift adjustable sight and grips are not original. The revolver is in very nice shape but has a few alterations to it. A nice triple lock is one of my bucket list guns. But not sure if I want to spend this much money on a gun that is not original. As to value what is something like this worth? Any help would be appreciated thanks.
236349
236350

[Dpmsman]

236351

[Dan Cash]

That is too rich for a butchered gun. $800 to 1000 is acceptable if you really want it.

[scattershot]

My advice would be to get a professional appraisal. That’s pretty serious coin. JMO.

[SvenLindquist]

Important to know who did the mods. If they were done by, for example, King, the value could be enhanced.

That said, price seems quite high. For example:

Description:
S&W .44 H.E. First Model, Triple Lock, Nickel, UN-FIRED
RL143 2313 A $4500

This S&W .44 Hand Ejector, First Model, Triple Lock was shipped to Cowdry & Co. New York City, NY on Feb. 10, 1916. The accompanying S&W Letter indicates that it remains in original factory nickel plated configuration, with the exception of the beautiful Pearl Grips. It was shipped with checkered gold medallion walnut grips.
After 100 years it remains in beautiful un-fired condition. The only flaws noticeable to the naked eye is a small pitted area on the L. frame above the trigger and some minor corrosion on one surface of the Cyl. That was “down” in the drawer. The faint turn line appears to be from playing with it because it has NOT been fired. There are a few tiny scratches and handeling marks as would be expected. There are NO other flaws hidden by lighting or Photo angles. The Pearl grips are excellent condition. The bore and mechanicals are in matching excellent condition. This revolver comes with the factory letter and is an outstanding example for any fine S&W collection. Serial Number: 11756,

[JBinMN]

236363Pic & info in it are from the 36th Edition of the Blue Book of Gun Values by S.P. Fjestad

Note that it is the Second(2nd) row of prices across & down page, if you do not have factory installed target sights. The 100% condition starts from the left ($2750) & the "conditions" from there to the left are 98%, 95%, 90%, & down in percentage from there.

Factory installed sights are the 3rd row across down page. 100% starts at $5500

The 1st row deals with .455 Webley conversions & starts with only 98% conversions at $4650

YMMV as far as if you want to consider the values in this particular book as compared to the revolver you have in hand.

It seems to me that the value "maybe be" 98 or 95%, due to the changes from the factory finish to the present condition & being that they are 98% = $1525 & 95% = $1325, the prices obviously go down from there. It could even be less, or even more...
You are the one to decide that... Unless you take it to a "Qualified" appraiser...


As far as how much you want to spend on it,and it being a "bucket list" item for you, then it seems that it is going to be entirely up to you to decide what value this particular revolver has, regardless of what anyone else thinks it is worth.

" Ones mans treasure, is another mans junk.", & "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.", are two saying that reflect the situation it seems...

G'Luck! in your decision(s)! IMO...Don't pay "too much." just because ya want it bad.. Suit yourself though.
;)

[6string]

The folks I know who are into triple locks would likely be disappointed to see this conversion. It's not that modified ones are "verboten", but some are held in high regard (ie: a true King target conversion) while others are held in derision (ie: a 455 with the rear of the cylinder shaved for 45 ACP/AR). This style of target conversion, some refer to as a "hacksaw & file" job, is closer to the latter.
One further consideration: the finish. It's hard to tell from the pictures, but given the work that's been done, I would expect a lot more finish wear. So, without a better look, I'd assume it's been re-blued. At least the little locking insert in the frame is still in the white, so maybe not?
That's gonna knock down the value another 50% or so. Or not.

The value is highly subjective. Blue book values don't apply well to these old S&Ws. There's a thread on the S&W forum right now titled something like "You can still get a Triple Lock for under a grand".

Jim

[Outpost75]

I told a similar vintage modified .44 Special Hand Ejector on GunBroker 6 years ago and after 3 months of listing sold it for $600. Yours may indeed be the same one, or one like it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

from my computer screen, besides not having all the original parts, those images show there is some bluing wear. Can I assume it has other conditions that indicate that it's seen plenty of use? LIKE: Cylinder play, worn muzzle, throat erosion ...even if those issues are slight, that knocks the condition down a few percentage points.

IMHO, it looks like a $1200 gun to me.

[NoZombies]

I told a similar vintage modified .44 Special Hand Ejector on GunBroker 6 years ago and after 3 months of listing sold it for $600. Yours may indeed be the same one, or one like it.

If you have any other triple locks you'd like to sell for $600 please let me know... ;)

[scattershot]

If you have any other triple locks you'd like to sell for $600 please let me know... ;)

Yeah, me, too.

[Dpmsman]

from my computer screen, besides not having all the original parts, those images show there is some bluing wear. Can I assume it has other conditions that indicate that it's seen plenty of use? LIKE: Cylinder play, worn muzzle, throat erosion ...even if those issues are slight, that knocks the condition down a few percentage points.


IMHO, it looks like a $1200 gun to me.

Unfortunately I have not handle it yet. This is a guy that I hang out with a lot of gun shows but he does live quite a ways away for me.

[Dpmsman]

I’m not going to lie I’m really starting to get cold feet on this one. $3500 is no small chunk of change to me and I would have to sell quite a few guns in order to fund this one. You know the saying if it’s too good to be true it probably is.

[JBinMN]

Just a point about the Blue book info I shared.

I don't hold much in regard to such things. I did not even buy the book, it was a gift.

Regardless, it does seem to give at least some help, to those who might be in the same or similar situation as the OP & is better than nothing. That is why I offered it up as something to consider.
Whether it is/was help, or not, is no skin off my back. A good effort was made to try to help.

Regardless of what the OP decides, and it seems he posted now & says he is getting a bit of cold feet. ( & I don't blame him. I don't own "safe queens", I shoot my firearms like most were meant to be, when made.)

It will all come down to whether he does buy it, or not.

I do notice that the listing is not being presented here as far as information for someone else to contact the seller, so that is an interesting aside from this thread.
;)

So, perhaps there is still a chance of this revolver going off the market anyway.

I enjoyed checking out this topic & thanks to all for the posts that gave me that enjoyment!
:)

G'Luck! to ya, Dpmsman!
:)

[SvenLindquist]

IMHO, the BlueBook is a book for dealer by dealer to rook the unwary. Dealers will whip it out at a show to convince you to sell YOUR gun for chump change. BUT if you quote it to them, it's suddenly wrong. The ONLY accurate source of gun values is prices realized (incl buyers premium) at major auction house gun auctions. Those are the prices real experts are willing to pay, not some book's opinion. Watching them also alerts you to trends, such as the crash in values of fine American & European single shot rifles, Winchester M 12 shotguns etc..

[Tackleberry41]

Are there actually guns made in 1916 that have NOT been fired? Just find it hard to believe in the last 100 yrs, someone has not put a round thru it. I could not imagine keeping a gun that long, passed thru several sets of hands, moved around, kept oiled and yet nobody said 'lets shoot it'.

I have not known that blue book to be much use, except as noted a way for gun shops to stick it to you. I had an HK33, not made by HK, but ATI, converted military weapon. I paid $1200 NIB, then less than 100rds later a shop tells me nah it would only sell for $800, they can give me $600, including the $300 worth of mags I had bought for it. At a time when I could not find a single rifle like it for sale in the US, and easily sold it for $1400 on armslist.

[Freischütz]

Post your information at http://smith-wessonforum.com/
You'll get a good estimate of the gun's value.

[JBinMN]

IMHO, the BlueBook is a book for dealer by dealer to rook the unwary. Dealers will whip it out at a show to convince you to sell YOUR gun for chump change. BUT if you quote it to them, it's suddenly wrong. The ONLY accurate source of gun values is prices realized (incl buyers premium) at major auction house gun auctions. Those are the prices real experts are willing to pay, not some book's opinion. Watching them also alerts you to trends, such as the crash in values of fine American & European single shot rifles, Winchester M 12 shotguns etc..






I have not known that blue book to be much use, except as noted a way for gun shops to stick it to you. I had an HK33, not made by HK, but ATI, converted military weapon. I paid $1200 NIB, then less than 100rds later a shop tells me nah it would only sell for $800, they can give me $600, including the $300 worth of mags I had bought for it. At a time when I could not find a single rifle like it for sale in the US, and easily sold it for $1400 on armslist.


Just a point about the Blue book info I shared.

I don't hold much in regard to such things. I did not even buy the book, it was a gift.

Regardless, it does seem to give at least some help, to those who might be in the same or similar situation as the OP & is better than nothing. That is why I offered it up as something to consider.
Whether it is/was help, or not, is no skin off my back. A good effort was made to try to help.

Regardless of what the OP decides, and it seems he posted now & says he is getting a bit of cold feet. ( & I don't blame him. I don't own "safe queens", I shoot my firearms like most were meant to be, when made.)




Well, even though I posted that I was not a fan of the Blue books, it seems I may be being chastised for even posting up what was in one, even though I was TRYING TO HELP someone here on the forum.

I won't forget about the folks pointing out the error of my ways in doing so. I assure ya.

[Dpmsman]

Thanks to all that replied! JB i appreciate the blue book info.

[SvenLindquist]

JB, nobody is faulting you. Folks are just pointing out that the BB is questionable.

The only way to find out what something is worth is to put it in a big national auction and see what folks are willing to pay.

Barrett Jackson does this with cars. Their results set prices for like items.

[MT Gianni]

IIRC there is a 1st, 2nd and 3rd change in Triple locks. The 1st and 3rd have higher values than the 2nd. If the blueing was original, or redone by the factory [it would show a mark under the grips on the frame], I see it as low $2000-$1750 at best. IMO, it's a little too pretty to be original.

[Dpmsman]

I talk to him today and he still insists that the sights are Bisley sights and we’re done at the factory. Does anyone have a picture of an original Bisley sighted Smith and Wesson triple lock?

[MT Gianni]

The letter from S&W says other wise. Pull the grips and look at the frame. A star shows factory rework and it would have been noted in the S&W letter.

[rintinglen]

236627
Here are two factory Triple Lock Target models, formerly owned by Elmer Keith. Note the rear sights. Somebody is being conned if someone thinks the gun you showed previously is a factory Triple lock or factory conversion. It is a gunsmith hack job which took at least 500 bucks off the value. I would pay no more than 1300, and would be happier at 1000-1100.

[Thin Man]

I treat Blue Book values with a grain of salt. The author of that publication (S.P. Fjestad) reportedly establishes his values by attending gun shows, auctions, sales events, etc. to watch the actual cash trading hands for any specific item and in its specific condition. He uses real time experiences to influence his published pricing. However, he is located in the Minneapolis area. Firearm prices in that location may be the same or different from any other location. The buyer needs to learn the pricing trends in their own location, and the Blue Book serves as a "close but maybe not exact" reference in that need. My greatest interest in the Blue Book is the amount of detail about all the various models of any specific line of firearm to help make a positive identification of any firearm I see. As some have said "the devil is in the details." Knowing the exact model designation of any given firearm will start all the following discussions about it.

[Tackleberry41]

Be surprised how a trip back to the factory ruins a S&W. I bought a really nice 32 S&W, not long. Story the shop told was it had been unfired. Has the returned to factory mark under the grips. Back in 1919, apparently it was just part of the service to reblue your gun. I went and asked in the S&W forum, yeap it was near worthless once the factory got ahold of it 100 yrs ago.

[Dpmsman]

I still haven’t seen the revolver yet but I think I better let it go. There’s always another one. Thanks to all that posted.

[El Bibliotecario]

"...not sure if I want to spend this much money on a gun that is not original."

Ann Landers used to say people knew what to do, they just wanted someone to tell them. It seems as if you have already figured out the situation.

[Drm50]

I wheel and deal S&W revolvers. With out seeing it and information you give its not a $3500 gun. Maybe $1K to
$1500 if in really nice mechanical condition. If it's a nice solid gun you have to remember that 24-3s in nice condition are at $1K -$1200. This is type of gun that suffers buyers remorse and is passed down through the system by guys trying to get out from under it and break even, if honest sellers.

[Jtarm]

I’ll go a step further than Drm50:

With no documentation on the work, collectible value is almost nil.

That would leave you with a shooter.

A 24-3 for around $1k is a better shooter, IMO. Better sights, modern metallurgy that would better handle heavier loads.

Unless you want it for the Elmer Keith experience (which is fine, I think it would be fun to shoot), I wouldn’t go over $1,000.

[Jtarm]

Be surprised how a trip back to the factory ruins a S&W. I bought a really nice 32 S&W, not long. Story the shop told was it had been unfired. Has the returned to factory mark under the grips. Back in 1919, apparently it was just part of the service to reblue your gun. I went and asked in the S&W forum, yeap it was near worthless once the factory got ahold of it 100 yrs ago.

I wouldn’t trust S&W forums or Blue Book.

BBs valuations are absurdly low.

[JBinMN]

******t. I wish I had not even posted about the BB in this topic trying to help out another member in good faith. Even after the OP decided to pass on buying the **** thing anyway...

I still haven’t seen the revolver yet but I think I better let it go. There’s always another one. Thanks to all that posted.


Unsubscribing, so I don't keep getting email reminders about trying to help someone & folks complaining about the **** BB, one after the other. Sheeesh. Reminds me of a nagging ol lady...

***** about it all ya like... I'm moving on...