balistic medium

[canuck4570]

I would like to make expansion test and I am tired of recovering them in a sandy back stop... no very good medium for test... What I would like to know is there someone who can tell me of a recepy to make this medium .. thank you Canuck..

[versifier]

I've had good luck with lining up a row of water-filled gallon plastic milk jugs and shooting into the end of it. Leave the tops off, and bringing along a roll of masking tape to plug the leaks will come in handy. Bullets are easily recovered and you can get a good idea of both expansion and penetration potential. I suppose you could even remove the entire top of one and put a large bone in it to see what happens, too. :shock:
But, to answer your question, Brownells used to sell the gelatin stuff if my memory isn't playing tricks. :coffee:

[canuck4570]

good idea will start saving windsheild washer fluide bottle .... her in Canada they are everywhere on the road in winther....a question on these bottle... does the bullet tend to deviate after a few bottle and ecxit sideway...

[versifier]

Not in the square flat sided milk jugs. As long as the bullet enters at the right angle, it keeps traveling in a straight line as far as it penetrates. I don't know what would happen if you were to use round ones. Maybe no problem if the hit is dead center. (I'm assuming, maybe incorrectly, that most washer fluid is sold in round gallon jugs up there like it is around here. If you get it in square ones, then ignore my speculation.) Milk jugs also tend to be made with thinner walls than the ones they sell washer fluid in, too. I don't know if that would make any difference, it's easy enough to try and find out.

[canuck4570]

lukely for me they have a big square face.....thank again for the tip...Michel

[fecmech]

I seem to remember a post on The High Road or 1911 forum from a fellow at the ammoload web site. IIRC he said penetration in water was 1.8 times the 10% gelatin mix used for ballistic testing. That was using 1/2 gal paper milk cartons as containers, as to how much if any difference that makes I don't have a clue. When I used to hunt woodchucks I tested pistol bullets for expansion by shooting thru a 1/2 gal water filled container and put a piece of cardboard a couple feet behind it. I could tell by the size of the hole if expansion had taken place. Bullets that made big holes in cardboard messed chucks up pretty bad.

[canuck4570]

good idea ..... save a lot of container less work and you can size the diameter of expansion..... One modifiation to it... I will use your system until I see the expansion that I want and after the one whith a lot of container because I will want to see about weitht retention ....plus I think it is a good idea to put hard substance in the bottle to see penatration and deflection. thank you Canuck

[SharpsShooter]

They used to use wet newspapers as a test bed for expansion, but I haven't heard of anyone doing that for years. You stacked em in an egg crate and soaked the paper with the garden hose. The target area was the end of the crate so as to allow for maximum penetration depth. Some folks put bones in the middle to simulate live game.
FWIW

[canuck4570]

newspaper yes very heavy and messy to rebuild after every shot.... by the there is no other caliber than 4570

[SharpsShooter]

Yeah the newspaper boolit trap has to be rebuilt after each shot. Good medium, but sure would be time consuming for sure.

[MT Gianni]

Bob Hagel advocated a bullet box with wet sand and sawdust seperated by layers of cardboard. He shot on his own property between Salmon and Challis Idaho if I remember correctly. His box was 5' or 6' long and 12"x12". The cardboard was removed to see penetration and replacable with slots to slide it in. Gianni.

[Cayoot]

I'm sorry to be the lone dissenter here, but I gotta say that I have never been able to convince myself that wet news print was anywhere close to the tissue density of lung and organs.

When I'm testing for a new load, I like to load a garbage bag up with damp sawdust, then put sholder blade bones from last years deer in front (target dot on the bone.

About 2 to 3 feet behind the bag of sawdust I put a cardboard box cut open.

The purpose of the cut open box is to give me a "cut out" image of the boolit that exits from my hand made lung/heart area after the boolit punches through a shoulder blade.

This does not allow me to recover my boolit, but it also does not deform the boolit in a way that doesn't simulate my game animal's boiler room.

This is the only way I feel confident in testing my handgun rounds to see if they will penetrate adequately at different ranges. Like I said, it also gives me a general idea of the size of boolit that held together to exit the impact area.

Of course, with a rifle you wouldn't worry about if the boolit penetrated, but I only hunt with hand guns.

I can not see wet newsprint as anything except a stress test for our boolits (which it does do a good job at I believe.)

Of course, your mileage may vary.

[canuck4570]

like the idea of sand and sawdust.... where I shoot its all sand so dont have to carry it the range...does the sawdust make it more like game bones and flesh...

[JDL]

I have used the wet newsprint as an expansion/penetration test bed, finally found a use for them.:-) It is messy and heavy but, it leaves an impression of the cavity that the boolit made which is easy to compair. When testing, I used a "standard" to compair against, a Nosler 180 grain .30'06. No, it doesn't simulate animal tissue, but it does give a base from which to work and the boolits I've recovered from elk are pretty much the same as from the newsprint.-JDL

[1Shirt]

Among other things, I am a potter, and one of these days I will screw around with shooting into moist clay. Since moist clay can be wedged back into shape, think it would be a good medium. Has anyone else shot into clay, and if so, how many pounds in a block. A 10" square weighs right about 50 lb. by the way. Haden't thought about putting a shoulder blade, on the middle, but that seems like it might also be a good idea as well.
1Shirt :coffeecom

[versifier]

I have read about using modeling clay for testing handgun bullets, but it was a long time ago and I don't remember any details. I didn't have enough on hand to experiment and put the idea on the back burner where it remained until seeing the above post.

[imashooter2]

A SIMPLIFIED 10% ORDNANCE GELATIN PREPARATION AND TEST PROCEDURE

http://firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume3/number2/article1.htm

I'd hate to see the proceedure before it was simplified. :shock:

[Old Jim]

The primary object in using a balistic gelatin or the water bottles is the repeatability. You can shoot over a period of time and the values received will be valid from test to test. Shooting into bone filled sawdust, sand or wet newspapers cannot be duplicated from shot to shot. Too much difference in the way the medium is stacked and compressed for each shot.
I saw a recommendation of using the flat 1 gal antifreeze jugs. Certainly available at the local quick lube shop.